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Author
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Topic: The Founding Fathers/ Revolution/Church and State
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Bat Elohim
Advanced Member
Member # 3739
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posted
WOW FM!!
That was cool!
Now, I do have a question though, since someone else brought this up about the religious beliefs of our founding fathers. I was raised in a Masonic home and we were taught that the founding fathers were all members of the Masonic Lodge.
My church teachs that the Lodge is anti-christian. If it is and these men were members, wouldn't that make them anti-christian?
I know that most Lodge members (in my area) are truely good Christians, but these accusations keep coming up about them and their beliefs, that's why I'm asking.
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Numbers 6:24 May ADONAI bless you and keep you. 25 May ADONAI make his face shine on you and show you his favor. 26 May ADONAI lift up his face toward you and give you peace.
Posts: 704 | From: Louisiana | Registered: Aug 2004
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Ripp
unregistered
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posted
Thanks for the post Favor. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Niedziejkore wrote:
quote:
I get this sense that a lot of people on this message board feel the founding fathers were christians and our country was founded upon christianity. I am curious as to how some of you came up with that notion. As a student of history, particularly American history 1600 to present, I have found that while our founding fathers did express a belief in god, they were not "christians" in any sense. In fact, our American Revolution was forbidden by the bible.
I smell something. Wait, is that secular humanism I smell?! Yep, I'm sure of it. I smell that same stink at my school...
God help us. Come quickly my Lord!
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Favor Minded
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posted
quote:
I'm in a hurry so i'll leave it at that and see what kind of discourse comes about from this.
As Shakespeare said -
"Bid me discourse, I will enchant thine ear"
While new age history tries to enlighten our students with this idea, it is completely untrue. The same historian approach also is going after Biblical truths in general, and attempting to prove that Jesus never existed.
You'll hear it said that Jefferson, Adams and Mason spoke against it - They did speak against what religion had caused. Jefferson was very much a believer in Christ, and spoke of his excellence in reform, etc. They spoke against what was sometimes called depraved law or religion, which Jesus served to correct and reform. This THEY DID indeed support, believe in, teach, and practice faith in Christ.
They also were not the only founding fathers...
The Pennsylvania Frame of Government, Section XXXIV, ratified in 1682 by the General Assembly states that all elected officials, judges and citizens who are eligible to vote "shall be such as possess faith in Jesus Christ"
The Pennsylvania Charter of Privileges Granted by William Penn to the Inhabitants of Pennsylvania, ratified in 1701 by the General Assembly, states the following in Section I: "AND that all Persons who also profess to believe in Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the World, shall be capable (notwithstanding their other Persuasions and Practices in Point of Conscience and Religion) to serve this Government in any Capacity, both legislatively and executively"
The Pennsylvania Constitution ratified in 1776 states the following in Chapter II, Section 10: "And each member [of the house of representatives and senate], before he takes his seat, shall make and subscribe the following declaration, viz. I do believe in one God, the Creator and governor of the universe, the rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine inspiration."
The current Pennsylvania Constitution declares the following: "WE, the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance, do ordain and establish this Constitution" (Preamble) "All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences" (Article I, Section 3) "No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth." (Article I, Section 4)
Article 22 of the Constitution of Delaware ratified in 1776 requires all public officials to make the following declaration: ”I, do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration."
The Constitution of Massachusetts ratified in 1780 states the following in Part The First: "It is the right as well as the duty of all men in society publicly and it’s stated seasons to worship the supreme Being, the great Creator, and Preserver of the Universe" (Article II) "As the happiness of a people and the good order and preservation of civil government essentially depend upon piety, religion and morality." (Article III)
The Constitution of Mississippi ratified in 1832 states the following in Article VII: "No person who denies the being of a God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state…Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government, the preservation of liberty, and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education, shall forever be encouraged in this state."
FOUNDERS QUOTES
“It cannot be emphasized too strongly and too often that this nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ” – Patrick Henry, five time Governor of Virginia who also said “Give me liberty or give me death”
“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed” – Patrick Henry
“Do not anyone claim to be a true American if they attempt to remove religion from politics” – George Washington
“It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.” – George Washington
“It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor…” – George Washington’s October 3, 1789 Proclamation of a National Day of Prayer and Thanksgiving
“With the knowledge that all the good you have ever received, that you now receive or ever will receive is of grace through Jesus Christ. Trust in Him for all which you need both for this life and the life to come.” - George Washington – The 17 Rules for Life
“The highest glory of the American revolution is this bound together the principals of Christianity and the principles of civil government. America’s constitution was made for moral and religious people, it will not work for any other people” - John Adams, Second American President
“The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs the affairs of men and that the sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice. Is it probably that an empire can not rise without His aid? We have been assured in His sacred writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.” – Benjamin Franklin at the Constitutional Convention on June 28, 1787.
“Here is my creed, I believe in one God, the creator of the universe, that He governs it by His providence, that He aught to be worshiped. As to Jesus of Nazareth, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us is the best the world ever saw or is likely to see.” – Benjamin Franklin
“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. It is our duty and privilege to choose and prefer Christians for our leaders” – John Jay, First Supreme Court Justice
“We have staked the future of our American civilization not upon the power of government, we have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each of us to govern ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” – James Madison, The Father of our Constitution
“Education is useless without the Bible. The Bible is America’s basic textbook in all fields. In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children under a free government aught to be instructed. No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people” – Noah Webster, America’s Schoolmaster
“The moral principals and precepts contained in the scriptures aught to form the basic of all our civil constitutions and laws. All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, injustice, oppression, slavery and more proceed from their despising and neglecting the principles contained in the Bible” – Noah Webster
UNITED STATES V. THE HOLY TRINITY CHURCH
The Supreme Court case between the Holy Trinity Church v. The United States of America, 143 U.S. 457 (1892) on February 29, 1892 indicated that the country was founded by Christians. The Supreme Court said in it’s ruling "Our laws and institutions must necessarily be based upon and include the teaching of the Redeemer of mankind…These and many other matters which might be noticed add a volume of unofficial declaration to the mass or organic utterance that this is a Christian nation."
The Supreme Court made their decision on 87 previous precedents, including the federal and state constitutions and the Declaration of Independence. The overwhelming number of precedents indicate that the decision was based on solid evidence and it was not merely the particular religious convictions or beliefs of the Court at that time.
UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON STUDY
A study of the founders of America was conducted by the University of Houston in 1980. The study concluded that 52 of the 55 most influential founders of America were evangelical Christians, mostly Episcopalians, Presbyterians and Dutch Reformed.
The University studied more than 15,000 of the founding documents, singling out the 3,100 most important. Of those 3,100 documents, 34% of the quotes given in the documents were from the Bible and 60% of the rest of the quotes were based on Biblical principles.
The study also concluded that the idea of three branches to our government came directly from the Bible: "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us" - Isaiah 33:22 (Representing the judicial, legislative and executive branches of our government.)
SUMMARY
No one can escape the overwhelming evidence of this nation’s Christian heritage. Even today, the Ten Commandments hang from the U.S. Supreme Court courtroom, our coins say, "In God We Trust" and we pledge allegiance with "one nation under God".
I believe that this Christian heritage is the sole reason why God has so richly blessed our Christian nation.
Newer approaches, and some of the same who claim that Jesus "May Never Have Existed" are known as revisionist historians.
They have claimed that our founders were either secularists or deists. This is the farthest thing from the truth.
The historian has done more to change history than any other.
“If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterity neglect its instructions and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us and bury all our glory in profound obscurity.” – Daniel Webster, Secretary of State for three presidents.
“As nations can not be rewarded or punished in the next world they must be in this. By an inevitable chain of causes and effects, providence punishes, nations sins, by national calamities.” – George Mason, Constitutional Convention Delegate
"Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls." - Jeremiah 6:16
Ben Franklin saw it coming, even then...
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity.
If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England."
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Niedziejkore
Advanced Member
Member # 2773
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posted
I get this sense that a lot of people on this message board feel the founding fathers were christians and our country was founded upon christianity. I am curious as to how some of you came up with that notion. As a student of history, particularly American history 1600 to present, I have found that while our founding fathers did express a belief in god, they were not "christians" in any sense. In fact, our American Revolution was forbidden by the bible.
2:11
Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
2:12
Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
2:13
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
2:14
Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
The bible tells us that here that we are to respect earthly laws and submit our loyaly to our kings. It amazes me that this phrase was written by paul at a time when religious persecution by the king was abhorrent. But at the same time, any way you look at it, we had a violent uprising against our king.
I'm in a hurry so i'll leave it at that and see what kind of discourse comes about from this.
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Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.
Posts: 346 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2004
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