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Topic: Thoughts on Christianity and war
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Trafield
unregistered
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posted
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But in this Iraq conflict I do not think war is necessary or justified. We (the US) are not the police of the world. We have no right to go over there and start a war without the UN backing us. The constitution gives us the right to defend our country, but I don't think we can qualify taking out Sadam as defending the US.
First of all, the US is the police of the world whether you like to admit it or not. Even on UN missions, who is the main military force always involved? Secondly, Bush is trying desperately to go through the UN, which is why we have not attacked yet, and which causes me to question Bush's motives. Is he more concerned with the future relevancy of the UN over the protection of the country he has pledged to defend?
But certianly we can justify taking out Sadam as defending the US. He has made his hatred for us clearly known, his biological and chemical weapons that the UN itself states he has is unaccounted for, and according to current UN resolution 1441 we can legally attack. Regardless, we are a sovereign nation and do not need the UN's "permission." Especially since the UN is the prophecied one-world governmental system of the coming antichrist.
And look what happened in Afghanistan. We took care of business, installed a new regime, then handed it over to the UN. The leader of Afghanistan is pro-UN, and Afghanistan has already ratified the Rome Statue and has now yielded its soverienty to the UN's "world community." The same will be true of Iraq, and the UN will eventually go along, because it, not the US, will reap the benefits.
Mark my words...
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InnerChild
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Member # 676
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posted
I think there is a time war is necessary. God certainly understands this and, like the verses many of you mentioned, God even seems to be okay with war.
But in this Iraq conflict I do not think war is necessary or justified. We (the US) are not the police of the world. We have no right to go over there and start a war without the UN backing us. The constitution gives us the right to defend our country, but I don't think we can qualify taking out Sadam as defending the US.
Yes Sadam is evil, yes he kills innocent people, but still, this is not America's problem. It is NOT our job to cleanse the world of evil tyrants.
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--
Child
Semper Cognosco
Posts: 40 | From: Greensboro, NC USA | Registered: Nov 2002
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Trafield
unregistered
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posted
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We're only arguing because you refuse to listen.
And you refuse to hear. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know that they produce quarrels.
2 Timothy 2:23
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J23
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Member # 634
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posted
If you think that putting down our lives for Christ's name's sake is suicide, then you must think that Jesus Christ himself committed suicide, after all he did put his Life down by himself - nobody was able to take it from him.
Warped is what the Pharisees and Saducees would have said about Jesus' teachings, but Jesus would have thought that he was simply outnumbered. Warped is only a perception stemming from a person or people who think that they already have it all right - notice I used the word think.
The only thing that's changed is time. People who live will understand God's laws and ways, they will feel the strain of a world where doing the right thing seems to go against them, and see how the problems that are stem from other people not doing the right things. If you're not living it then you won't see to know better. It's like the people of Jesus' day, they were big talkers, but they weren't living it. So really all that's changed is time, today the Pharisees and Saducees are Christians, but thoe Christians are of the world, they aren't following what Jesus Christ taught.
Turning the other cheek is still the technique, if you do so then your hands will remain clean, and that's what will separate a person who is granted flight from the one who isn't.
And I was thinking also, that many of the people who do promote war (like you) probably won't be fighting in it, and maybe your hands will have no blood on them. But I'm thinking that because you choose to promote war and nfluence others to do the same, that by causing others to be refused FLIGHT, that you too should be refused flight - why should you benenfit from what you encourage others to lose out on? - I suggest you take your time and fear God, because it's a thin line.
Who has defended your house and your Life to this very day? - God has, so he's the one that you should rely on, because what he decrees no man can turn around. If you are wise you will benefit from it, but if you scorn you alone shall bear it.
We're only arguing because you refuse to listen. That's how simple it is.
Peace & Righteousness,
J23
Psalm 22 - This is the scripture that Jesus fulfilled when he was crucified, he came to fulfill it. Suicide is a worldly term and can be used to blind whoever is not in touch with God. Jesus Christ put his Life down, just so that he would take it back up again and get his due glory .... Let the world call that whatever it wants, because you are all temporary!
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"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom: and the knowledge of the Holy is Understanding." - Proverbs 9:10
"... Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute Judgement and Justice in the Earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord lives, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; but, The Lord lives, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the North country, and from all countries where I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land ..." - Jeremiah 23 [Closeby : Rapture]
"And you, Solomon my son, know you the God of your father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands all the imaginations of the thoughts: if you seek him, he will be found of you; but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever." - King David, Chronicles 28:9
THE 7 DAY THEORY 2
Posts: 199 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2002
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Trafield
unregistered
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posted
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I think that the same line that you see as warped coming from me is the very line where I'd disagree with a lot of people who are Christians....
I think that it's wrong for this war to be promoted, and this view of mine comes from my understanding of the New Testament.
Your understanding is lacking. And actually It is much more than just one line of yours I disagree with. No one is promoting war, we just know God's word says that it is coming. You, however, are not promoting peace, but suicide. The entire Bible still applies, both the Old and New Testements. And your interpretation is ridiculous if you think God would have you distort his will by not defending yourself or your family in time of need.
Again,
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven:" (Ecclesiastes 3:1)
This includes war.
"a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace. (Ecclesiastes 3:8)
"War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed." (Daniel 9:26)
Regardless, I think it is time to end this disagreement.
Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know that they produce quarrels.
2 Timothy 2:23
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J23
Advanced Member
Member # 634
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posted
Trafield says:
quote:
I do, however, appreciate your faith in Jesus and the Bible, even though I think you severely warp its meaning.
I think that the same line that you see as warped coming from me is the very line where I'd disagree with a lot of people who are Christians. It's so because I have no teacher except for my experiences which come from the Holy Spirit.
I think that we are all to seek our Perfection primarily. Things are set to change, and they will do, and there's nothing we can do but trust God, and he told us the whole story.
I'm aiming for te straight and narrow route and I'm advising whoever would listen to me to do just the same. I'm not a fan of the world, I was born in London but that doesn't mean I'm English - my Home is far from here. My route is the forsake the foolish and seek Life route, and that means let whoever wants to fight go and fight, but if I'm seeking Heaven, then when I get there my labour of Life is done, and nothing will take me back, plus I really don't think I would want to come back - except for Armageddon.
Everything that's in the world is temporary, God's word is a promise, and he has declared this to us, so why should we get so close to the world? I think we should be looking forward to better things and the ending of this nonsense. Why put your heart into keeping up what God says is doomed to fall? - That's going against the grain, and that will be greivous (?).
Grab your gun and blast whoever? - Many movies no doubt.
David is that man of God, but the plan of God is different today to what it was then. We could do those things then, as a part of the Old Testament, but for the New Testament we are to keep our hands clean.
I think that it's wrong for this war to be promoted, and this view of mine comes from my understanding of the New Testament.
Thank You.
Peace & Righteousness,
J23
Posts: 199 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2002
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Trafield
unregistered
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posted
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If someone broke into my house? - Then it was the will of God, and will serve a positive purpose as long as I am able to trust and respect God to understand it so at a later date. And whoever breaks into my house will be rewarded by the Lord because he will hear my heart's complaints.
Well, we obviously differ on what God's will is. Do you give your family medice when they are sick? Would you have a doctor tend to them if they are in need, or would you rely on God's "will" here also.
If someone broke into my house, the will of God is for me to grab my gun and protect my family. If I am sucessful, that is the will of God. If I am not, that is also the will of God.
Earlier you mentioned Peter cutting off the Roman's ear with his sword. So obviously Peter was carrying a sword, and certainly Jesus knew this. The Jews, including David who God said was a man after his own heart, fought in battles.
I do, however, appreciate your faith in Jesus and the Bible, even though I think you severely warp its meaning.
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J23
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Member # 634
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posted
Whoever believes in Jesus Christ's name alone will have power over Death.
Sadaam is one of many; America has quite a few enemies, bigger ones than Sadaam.
Going to war and fighting changes nothing except the destiny of the soldiers involved in the war, because these are things which must and will come to pass. The person to ask mercy from is God.
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"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom: and the knowledge of the Holy is Understanding." - Proverbs 9:10
"... Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute Judgement and Justice in the Earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord lives, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; but, The Lord lives, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the North country, and from all countries where I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land ..." - Jeremiah 23 [Closeby : Rapture]
"And you, Solomon my son, know you the God of your father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands all the imaginations of the thoughts: if you seek him, he will be found of you; but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever." - King David, Chronicles 28:9
THE 7 DAY THEORY 2
Posts: 199 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2002
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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posted
Peace that Destroys
There is a cry for peace across the world today. Millions of people, if the global news reports are to be believed, are, through their protests, proclaiming that there is safety in peace. That the United States should stop war mongering and give peace with Saddam Hussein a chance – again and again, and again ad infinitum.
The call for the Iraqi dictator and his regime to comply with more than 12 years of U.N.-imposed requirements cannot be found amongst the protest signs. The dangers of the present hour, according to the protesters and the world news media, reside within the oil-hungry George W. Bush and the evil, money-grubbing men advising him to go to war against a leader who just wants to mind his own business.
Despite U.N. resolutions demanding that Saddam produce proof that his weapons of mass destruction have been destroyed, the U.N. itself is at the same time acting as if its inspectors and the United States Bush Administration must prove Saddam still has the weapons. If such proof cannot be produced, an attack by America is unwarranted, the peace-minded U.N. diplomats cry almost in unison.
Never is Hussein commanded by the protesters to “come clean”—to stop preventing the inspectors from carrying out their duties without interference. The peace lovers, in streets of major cities in America and around the world, never protest the fact that there are armed guards who intimidate inspectors wherever they are allowed by Hussein to inspect. Never do the protestors declare Saddam in violation of every human right imaginable, despite credible horror story after story by those who have barely escaped with their lives from the dictator’s regime. Stories that tell of women and little girls raped, of young boys used for target practice, of men considered Saddam’s enemies being cut into a thousand pieces and brought to the front doors of the widows.
Never do the news network-appointed gods of reporting analyze the nature of a beast who would burn his people’s source of national wealth (Iraqi oil fields), and who would put Iraqi children, women and all other citizens between him and forces who intend to end his reign of terror. To make the tyrant look like, well, a tyrant, would, after all, be a detriment to preserving the peace in the region –and possibly world peace as well.
The protestors and the media as a whole must believe it is better to trust. Just trust Saddam, that he really doesn’t have the weapons of mass destruction, that he has no design on his neighbors and that which belongs to them. Saddam, we must trust, has no ties to Al Qaeda and to Islamic terrorism throughout the world.
Such “love of peace” is the sort that engulfed Europe, then the rest of the world, in all-out war in World War II. It is the type of “peace” that God’s prophetic Word says will again engulf the whole world, this time concluding with Armageddon. That “peace” will be perpetrated by a dictator who will make Saddam Hussein look like good neighbor Mr. Rogers of “Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood.”
The Scripture says about Antichrist: “And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify [himself] in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand” (Daniel 8:25).
The peace lovers of the sort that are deludedly protesting action against a man who is just waiting his moment to blow Israel off the map and the U.S. and all others who would oppose him are crying “peace and safety” to their ultimate doom.
The Scripture says further: “For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape” (1 Thessalonians 5:3).
There is but one sort of peace that will bring an end to the threat of war in this fallen world. It is the peace Christ will bring when He returns to put an end to Armageddon.
Meanwhile, madman after madman has proven to –or should have convinced—all people everywhere who hate war that in this cruel world, where dictators still rise to power on the blood of the defenseless, the wise strive for peace only from the position of great strength. --Terry James
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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J23
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Member # 634
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posted
... Like I said, Christianity is based on the Life and Wisdom of One Man, and he told us to strive to enter in at the straight gate, because there will be many that will want to enter but shall be unable.
When you promote that war you don't know what effect you are having on people spiritually. We meant to be getting clean during these days, that's our primary objective, because when Jesus gets back to Harvest the people who haven't paid attention may be very surprised and end up saying, Lord, Lord, didn't we do this and didn't we do that ... I say we should stick to scripture.
And where I'm from is irrelevant, I'm not a fan of the world and that's it. America, England and Rome don't mean anything to me, but I do look forward to the day in which they will all fall because I know that they are all wrong, and they are not Christian governments although they may claim to be, and it's not hard to tell.
THE SCRIPTURE - Do not deviate from it, or you are deviating, and it's not a matter of how many other people feel to do whatever it is that they please, it's about YOU (the individual), because on Judgement Day it will be You!
If someone broke into my house? - Then it was the will of God, and will serve a positive purpose as long as I am able to trust and respect God to understand it so at a later date. And whoever breaks into my house will be rewarded by the Lord because he will hear my heart's complaints.
Good things and bads things all come from the Lord, he does test the hearts of everyone, especially if it's Heaven you're aiming for. It's only a certain type of Heart that will pass such tests. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom ... These are the days when a whole load of people will be separated, just like Judas was from the twelve.
Peace & Righteousness,
J23
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"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom: and the knowledge of the Holy is Understanding." - Proverbs 9:10
"... Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute Judgement and Justice in the Earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord lives, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; but, The Lord lives, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the North country, and from all countries where I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land ..." - Jeremiah 23 [Closeby : Rapture]
"And you, Solomon my son, know you the God of your father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands all the imaginations of the thoughts: if you seek him, he will be found of you; but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever." - King David, Chronicles 28:9
THE 7 DAY THEORY 2
Posts: 199 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2002
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Trafield
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I noticed you convieniently ignored my question, so I would suppose you would just sit idle while someone breaks in your house to do harm to you and your family, eh?
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If you are willing to die for Christ's name's sake then why fight before you do so?
J23, how interesting it is that you are from England. To answer your question, for the same reason America fought the tyrany of England to create our own nation, and for the same reason we fought tyrany and evil during WWII: To have and protect the freedom that God has blessed us with. If you do not fight for the good and righteous, then, in your passiveness you fight against it.
From the United States Declaration of Independence:
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
GOD BLESS THE USA! ![[Kiss]](graemlins/Kiss.gif)
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J23
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posted
How does a person exercise Faith (in Christ) during war?
The way I see it is that the Lord has told us the outcome of all these things, so let them be.
If you are willing to die for Christ's name's sake then why fight before you do so? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[Proverbs 3:5]
Fighting is like a temporary loss of Faith (my opinion). What does everyone else think?
Posts: 199 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2002
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J23
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posted
I hear what you are saying about this war and what will continue on and on for a while, and I know that people will be going to war regardless of what anyone has to say, and that this is the Holy Spirit that is bringing every word of God to come to pass. I know that there will be soldiers fighting that do have it in their hearts to be Christians, however I will not promote the fighting of this war or any war for now, because I see this time as a time for Christ's believers to exploit and be made white and clean - there won't be a better opportunity than during these days.
I only turned around my thinking recently (for the record). I would mentioned King David and the Old Testament and what Jesus will do at Armageddon, but recently I came to see that Christianity is really the example set by the Life of Jesus Christ and that we are to flow with what he set.
The way it will turn out is that whoever thinks within themself that they are fighting a war in the name of Jesus Christ, that they had better be ready to die in his name, because it will be required of them. The Law says that whoever kills with the sword must die likewise (or by captivity - worse) and that's the same thing that Jesus said to Peter who he was very close with.
These days are about becoming clean, it's rational to defend but by killing you make your hands dirty, and that's why in the blood of the Lamb every soldier that's Christian must die to be made clean. Think about it spiritually - when Jesus washes our sins away he washes them over to Death, so that Death is responsible and guilty, not us, but if we become servants of Death and kill then we become dirty again and must be cleaned before The End.
Jesus will come with a response to the ones who have slain his people after the abomination that causes desolation. I really think that we are to watch these things come to pass rather than be involved.
I use Jesus in the temple as my example that although Jesus could be meek it didn't mean that he was meek, but rather he was behaving. Some people think that it's not right for me to get excited and raise my voice when we're debating, they'll say, He's no Christian, that's not how Jesus behaved. But in my mind I think to myself that they do not know Jesus as well as they think they do, and then I feel to remind them of Armageddon and the firstborns of Egypt - cos he's the same personality.
Peace & Love,
J23
Strive to enter in at the straight gateway, because there will be many who TRY to enter but will be unable. - Jesus said something like this with regards to seeking the Kingdom of God. I suggest we all aim to enter in at the way we have been shown.
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"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom: and the knowledge of the Holy is Understanding." - Proverbs 9:10
"... Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute Judgement and Justice in the Earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord lives, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; but, The Lord lives, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the North country, and from all countries where I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land ..." - Jeremiah 23 [Closeby : Rapture]
"And you, Solomon my son, know you the God of your father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands all the imaginations of the thoughts: if you seek him, he will be found of you; but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever." - King David, Chronicles 28:9
THE 7 DAY THEORY 2
Posts: 199 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2002
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Miguel
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posted
Jer 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to Jehovah, and take away the foreskins of your heart, men of Judah and people of Jerusalem; lest My fury come forth like fire, and burn so that none can put it out; because of the evil of your doings.
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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annie
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posted
Jesus did not defend himself because he new he had to fulfill prophecy and die for our sins. His example was not that we were not to defend ourselves. The old testament is full of war. We need to remember that what is really going on is spiritual warfare and the fulfillment of prophecy. These wars must happen and I fear that it will all grow worse as time goes on. Also that was certainly an angry Jesus at the temple that day when he cleared out the money changers.
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Trafield
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J23, was not King David a warrior?
And what, I wonder, would you do if someone broke into your house and tried to harm you and your family? Do you think God wants you to sit idle while someone tries to harm your family?
There is a time to EVERY purpose under heaven, and defense of self and country is one of them.
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J23
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Revenge belongs to the Lord, that means leave it to him, no matter how big or small the scale may be.
Not fighting a war will turn out to be the wiser decision, because everyone who steps up to make war will have unclean hands, they are the ones who won't be raptured. He who kills with the sword must be killed by it.
We are in the same boat as Jesus was in when he was arrested and they came with Judas. Jesus didn't fight a war or resist, and when Peter sliced away a certain soldier's ear Jesus healed him and told Peter to put his sword away, and he said to him that he who kills with the sword must be killed by the sword - The Law.
Therefore whoever has ears to hear let them hear. There is no war in Jesus Christ's name, and whoever lifts up a sword (gun) to kill will not be innocent in the Lord's eyes.
People go to war but don't know really what they are fighting for. Jesus Christ has no kingdom on Earth. America defend's Rome's reign.
"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." - Gospel John 18:36
If Christ's Kingdom is not on Earth yet, then when people go to war they cannot claim they are defending it. They can only be defending the world that is already here. If I remember rightly, we were told not to Love the world.
If Christ was a Lamb and we are Christians, then we are to be lambs too. We become Lions like he did when we are Born Again (resurrected).
Peace & Righteousness,
J23
Furthermore, If you go to war you are not following Jesus Christ, or his disciples, you are following the world. Jesus said nation shall rise again nation, kingdom against kingdom, he basically told us to watch them, not join in with them.
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"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom: and the knowledge of the Holy is Understanding." - Proverbs 9:10
"... Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute Judgement and Justice in the Earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord lives, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; but, The Lord lives, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the North country, and from all countries where I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land ..." - Jeremiah 23 [Closeby : Rapture]
"And you, Solomon my son, know you the God of your father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands all the imaginations of the thoughts: if you seek him, he will be found of you; but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever." - King David, Chronicles 28:9
THE 7 DAY THEORY 2
Posts: 199 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2002
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Trafield
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quote:
There is no war in the name of Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ did not fight in any war or seek to make war
Well, the Word of God says that the Lord is a warrior, and he certialy defended righteousness. He who has ears to hear, let him hear...
Zephaniah 3:14-17
14Shout for joy, O daughter of Zion!
Shout in triumph, O Israel!
Rejoice and exult with all your heart,
O daughter of Jerusalem!
15The Lord has taken away His judgments against you,He has cleared away your enemies.
The King of Israel, the Lord, is in your midst;
You will fear disaster no more.
16In that day it will be said to Jerusalem:
“Do not be afraid, O Zion;
Do not let your hands fall limp.
17“The Lord your God is in your midst,
A victorious warrior.
John 2:13-16
13The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
14And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables.
15And He made a scourge of cords(Whips), and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables;
16and to those who were selling the doves He said, “Take these things away; stop making My Father’s house a place of business.”
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Warrior4Him
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We must all remember that when our Lord and Christ returns he will return leading, as a Warrior the great'est army ever amassed.
I cant wait to watch Him ride!
Posts: 4 | From: Oregon | Registered: Feb 2003
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Kindgo
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Feb 15 Marks An Historic Day Of Protest!
In a day of protest like the world has never seen, millions upon millions filled city streets around the globe denouncing the Bush Administration's call to war. From Buenos Aires to Helsinki to Paris to Los Angeles, throngs of citizens came out to join this global effort to turn the tide toward peace. At nearly a million people, London saw its largest protest ever, 500,000 in New York City, 1-2 million in Rome, Barcelona and Madrid, and hundreds of thousands in at least 600 cities across the United States and the World.
Comments
"But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." I Thessalonians 5:1-3
On February 15th the largest peace rally in world history commenced around the globe. As all encompassing as this war is, one thing has been overlooked...the Bible states that in the lasts days the world would be longing for peace.
Of course, there have been peace demonstrations in the past, but not to this magnitude. Never has the world come together with such force to shout out "Peace and safety". This is scripture in action.
With the rumbling of war in the Middle East, Far East and other pockets around the world, we are at the crossroads of decision.
North Korea is determined to stand tall against a supposed future U.S. threat. If not for the hand of God, this country would have already unleashed the horrors of hell upon the world. One day soon they will.
Turkey has gained the assurance of NATO protection in the event of a war, but is still dragging its feet on allowing U.S. troops to enter their borders. You can bet they are secretly receiving heavy resistance from within and from Islamic nations around the world. They just voted in an all Islamic government.
I still believe we are going to war, but the next one (North Korea) maybe pre-empted by world outcry and the entrance of the antichrist. He will bring a short-lived peace agreement but in the end there will be great destruction.
Pastor Malone
quote:
After watching the reports of the six million protesters all over the world protesting the possibility of War in Iraq, it made me wonder if my understanding of 1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape was wrong.
I have always understood the verse to mean that the world would say "now that the Anti-Christ has come, we now have a world of true peace and everyone can live in peace." When I think about that, I now wonder how, at the same time, we are to have wars and rumors of wars. Could it be that my interpretation of this verse was completely wrong? I decided to do a word study.
The key word for me was the word "say".
lego leg’-o; a primary verb; properly, to "lay" forth, i.e. (figuratively) relate (in words [usually of systematic or set discourse; whereas 2036 and 5346 generally refer to an individual expression or speech respectively; while 4483 is properly, to break silence merely, and 2980 means an extended or random harangue); by implication, to mean:— ask, bid, boast, call, describe, give out, name, put forth, say(-ing, on), shew, speak, tell, utter.
The word "ask" in the definition struck me. Is the word say similar to a protest demanding or asking for peace? I wonder if these protesters are a fulfillment of prophecy.
To be hermanuetically correct I then checked Scripture with Scripture (line upon line precept upon precept) and found that things were asked (in a demanding way) throughout scripture using this same word.)
The word does not simply mean a simple statement of fact. It could in fact be a asking and/or demanding that They be given peace and safety!
"All we are saying, is give peace a chance" hmmmmm.
Thank you RR once again ![[thumbsup]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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If one stands by and does not intervene to prevent evil, then they are culpable in the evil perpetrated against the innocent.
The Christian policeman is expected to use necessary force,(up to lethal), to neutralize the threat of violence from the criminal. If the Christian policeman does not act with necessary force, and the criminal continues to kill the innocent then that Christian policeman is culpable in the killing of the innocent.
The executioner is a tool of the state, for it is the state which executes the criminal, and the executioner is not the killer. The burden for the one who is executed is on the state rather than the executioner himself.
The soldier is a tool of the state, and is not culpable in the death of those who he is ordered to attack with lethal force. His failure to use lethal force will directly place each member of his platoon in great danger.
By our delay in entering WWII we were culpable in the deaths of thousands at the hands of the Axis powers, for we stood by while they attacked others, and the ovens were firing-up. Just as I will step up again and shoot a rabid animal, to protect the other animals and humans in the vicinity, we must step up and intervene to protect the vulnerable.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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J23
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posted
There is no war in the name of Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ did not fight in any war or seek to make war, and when Peter raised his sword to chop off one those arresting guards' ears, Jesus healed the guard and told Peter to put his sword away, because whosoever kills by the sword must be killed by the sword.
Whosoever kills will not be innocent in God's sight, but they will have to become innocent in order to be saved.
That is my understanding of war and how Christians are to deal with war; follow Jesus' example. I only came to justify this recently. I first thought that it was right to fight war.
Peace & Righteousness,
J23
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"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom: and the knowledge of the Holy is Understanding." - Proverbs 9:10
"... Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute Judgement and Justice in the Earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord lives, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; but, The Lord lives, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the North country, and from all countries where I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land ..." - Jeremiah 23 [Closeby : Rapture]
"And you, Solomon my son, know you the God of your father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands all the imaginations of the thoughts: if you seek him, he will be found of you; but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever." - King David, Chronicles 28:9
THE 7 DAY THEORY 2
Posts: 199 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2002
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Kindgo
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Marching towards a new world
http://www.euobserver.com/index.phtml?sid=9&aid=9405
17.02.2003 - 09:53 CET
BRUNO KAUFMANN - "These actions are about to politicise a new generation of people and give them the idea and the conviction that it is worth becoming active."
EUOBSERVER / SALT&PEPPER - Auckland, Bangkok, Zagreb and Reykjavik were just four out of 300 cities in 60 countries all over the world, where millions of people went onto the streets to say "No to War". When pro-war papers such as "The Observer" in the UK carry the headline "People power enjoys global reach", then times have changed indeed.
Over the course of the last year, the world had to stand by and watch a narrowly-elected President and an indirectly-appointed Prime Minister make the moral cause for war on a tyrant, whom their predecessors had previously supported politically and equipped militarily. When Tony Blair, the UK Prime Minister, realized that millions of citizens were about to march the streets of London against war, he stated: "Not to go to war would be inhumane".
The beginning of a new age
What we have seen this weekend is the fact that the many start to claim a say on the basic issue of war and peace and that the few start to learn that leadership and conviction is not enough in a democracy. That is why Saturday's protest marches could mark the beginning of a new age, an age in which cross-border citizen action becomes a decisive factor in policy-making. It is possible, that we have just seen another very important moment in history towards transnational democracy.
Of course, it is too early to be sure of anything at this point. We are still in the middle of a major crisis in international politics: last night NATO agreed to find a solution on equipping Turkey ahead of a possible war in neighbouring Iraq, today the European Union leaders will once again try to find a common line on the question of going to war or not - and later this week the UN Security Council will again discuss the need for a second resolution.
To politicise a new generation of people
These three forums of international policy-making are in their structures still the very expression of a post-WW II and Cold War order. Their containing influence on the military ambitions of both larger and smaller powers has diminished radically during the last decade - today we have on the one side the US, which spends more money on weapons than all other countries together, and on the other side medium-sized countries in the Middle East and Asia, which are already or are on the way to becoming nuclear powers.
There are not many short-term answers to these military threats from the west and the east. However, citizens' protest marches all over the world such as the ones this weekend are necessary symbols of action which no-one can ignore. Even more important, these actions are about to politicise a new generation of people and give them the idea and the conviction that it is worth becoming active.
Like the Monday marches in Eastern Europe in 1989, when millions of peoples stated "We are the people", the "No to War" marches of this spring could lead to a profound change in our societies, leading to a comprehensive democratisation of organisations such as the European Union and the United Nations. It is not too late, but the route to a better world will be full of obstacles. Saying no to war on one Saturday in February will not be enough.
BRUNO KAUFMANN - is a peace- and conflict researcher, radio journalist and president of the Initiative & Referendum Institute Europe in Amsterdam.
Website Initiative & Referendum Institute Europe
Written by Bruno Kaufmann
Edited by Nicola Smith
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Trafield
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This is a Day of Exponential Growth
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"This is the day the Lord has made, I will rejoice and be glad in it!" (Psalm 118:24)
We are living in a day and time when the Word of God is being fulfilled at rapid pace. I was recently told about a report that said that knowledge once doubled at a slow rate, but by the year 2020, it is projected that it will double weekly, or even daily. Yesterday on CNN, they showed an "AirMobile," a car (not airplane) just like the one in the Jetsons cartoons, that glides through the air!
In this day of exponential growth of knowledge and technology, the world is also beginning to experience the downside of the results. Even the greatest angel in all of heaven could not hold extreme power in his hands without letting it go astray. Unsaved humanity certainly cannot. And thus we are beginning to experience exponential increase in fulfillment of Bible prophecy regarding these times. The question is, will we respond in exponential faith or exponential fear?
(ex·po·nen·tial = characterized by or being an extremely rapid increase in size, extent or rate of growth)
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Jesus Told Us There'd Be Days Like This...
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Many have been asking what is about to happen (prophetically) in the world. I told them to turn on TV and watch CNN (or another news station), because it is trumpeting what the Word of God says regarding what is to occur and be fulfilled during these times. Other than that, only our prayers will spare lives and nations.
What does Jesus say about this? In Luke 21, He says:
9 "But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."
10 Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
11 And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.
19 By your patience possess your souls.
20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.
22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;
26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken.
27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."
31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
34 But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly.
35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
In Mark 13 He says:
19 ... in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.
20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
22 ....False christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.
35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming--in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning--
36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"
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How Should We Watch?
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The word "watch" can be a noun or a verb. We can "watch" just to observe; but we are to be as the wise virgins, and "watch" as a verb. That meaning includes: to keep vigil as a devotional exercise; to be awake during the night; to be attentive or vigilant; keep guard; to keep someone or something under close observation; to be expectant; to keep under guard; to observe closely in order to check on action or change; to look on at; to take care of /tend; to be careful; watchful; to be on the alert for something or someone; to proceed with extreme care; act or talk warily; to have charge of (as to superintend.)
A time to be vigilant and attentive and guard our hearts and minds, and to "watch" the Word - look at it, soak it in, and as it says in Psalm 37: "Feed on His faithfulness!"
A time to be on the alert in both the natural and the spirit, "doing only what the Father says to do," seeking Him regarding even our smallest journey.
A time to be watchful; to be on the alert for anything suspicious around us. Ask God to show us what is going on and where potential dangers exist. And to report them when necessary. We ARE our brothers' keepers.
And especially, a time to be sure that we are "right with God" and that we reach out in love to others to bring them into the Kingdom, while there is still time.
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Remember His Promises, And Pray
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In Luke 21:33-36, Jesus promises:
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
34 "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly.
35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
May God bless our country, our leaders, and us with the exponential wisdom and direction from Him that we need in this day and time!
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Trafield
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SPECIAL MESSAGE FROM DR. STANLEY
Ecclesiastes 3:8 states that there is a "time for war and a time for peace." In these times of warfare, we often ask, "How should we respond? What should be our attitude?" We will find biblical answers for these questions when we explore the ultimate issue: What does the Word of God say about warfare?
When a nation goes to war, God’s people need to fully understand their heavenly Father’s viewpoint about this matter. Naturally, God is not excited about war. He does not enjoy bloodshed and vengeance. However, He is dealing with a world of people who have a fallen nature—sinful, wicked and vile. Romans 3:10-11,15-17 describes mankind without God: "…there is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God. . . . Their feet are swift to shed blood, destruction and misery are in their paths, and the path of peace they have not known."
God battles with people who oppose Him, who fight against Him and His followers. So, even though He hates war, God is not against it. Throughout the Old Testament, there are examples of God using warfare to carry out His plans, to punish the wicked and preserve His people (Deut. 9:4-6; Deut. 20; Jer. 5; Numbers 33:55-56). You may think, "How could God do that?" He says in Isaiah 55:9, "My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts are higher than your thoughts." God has divine reasons for choosing to use war as a vehicle to accomplish His will.
In Scripture, God clearly establishes the government’s responsibilities and authority over us, as well. In Romans 13:1 and 4, Paul writes, "every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. . .for it [the government] is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil."
The government is ordained by God with the right to promote good and restrain evil. This includes wickedness that exists within the nation, as well as any wicked persons or countries that threaten foreign nations. Obviously, there are times when a country should not go to war; but there are also times when, if a nation does not do so, they suffer the consequences. Therefore, a government has biblical grounds to go to war in the nation’s defense or to liberate others in the world who are enslaved.
You may think, "Well, how do we reconcile that with what Jesus said about loving our enemies and turning the other cheek?" (Luke 6:27-30) In that passage, Jesus was speaking to us as individuals. If someone treats us badly, we should love him anyway. We can pray for our enemies, and do good to those who hate us. The way someone treats an individual is one thing; the way he treats an entire nation is a completely different issue. The Bible teaches that it is the responsibility of the government’s leaders to protect the nation against those who would destroy it.
The Bible also instructs citizens in the proper way to respond when their country goes to war. For example, it is a violation of the Word of God to refuse to defend your country if ordered. Recall Romans 13:1-2: "every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God. . .Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves." According to this verse, we’re to be submissive to the laws of the land. The only reason we have for disobeying the government is if it requires us to behave in a way that clearly violates some specific verse or command of God (Acts 5:27-32).
Someone might say, "But I can’t go to war because shooting the enemy would be murder, and the Bible says ‘you shall not murder’"(Exodus 20:13). Actually, when a man in combat shoots his enemy under the command of the government, without personal hatred, he is not committing murder. Instead, he is simply being obedient to the purpose for which he is fighting. To commit murder, a person must have vengeance and hatred against another. Many men have died on the battlefield without animosity toward anyone--they were fighting for a cause, defending or freeing their land. Therefore, if called, it is a citizen’s national and biblical responsibility to defend his country.
Even if we do not actually participate in the fighting, we are also called to create unity and harmony within the country. We need to support whatever decisions our nation makes, as long as they do not directly violate the Word of God. How can we justify the protests and marches against war? I understand that, in America, for example, we have a right to express our different opinions. However, there comes a time when our personal opinion is not a priority. The only reason we have the freedom to protest in this country is because thousands were willing to die for that liberty in the past.
Instead of resisting, we should offer to serve the war effort in any way possible during this time, especially by encouraging and helping the families of our soldiers. And the most important and powerful thing we can do for our nation is pray. Pray for our President, leaders, military, and even our enemies. God honors the prayers of His children and expects us to support those in authority.
Despite the many different opinions and philosophies about war, the most important consideration is God’s viewpoint. Throughout Scripture there is evidence that God favors war for divine reasons and sometimes uses it to accomplish His will. He has also given governments and their citizens very specific responsibilities in regards to this matter. This is a frightening time for all of the world’s citizens, but it is also a time for God’s people to rise up as a unified body against the global threat of evil and terror. I challenge you, as a child of God, to respond to this conflict as He desires: with an attitude of prayer, submission, and an unwavering dependence upon your heavenly Father.
—Charles F. Stanley
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