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Author
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Topic: Life Saving Efforts
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danny458
Advanced Member
Member # 4378
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posted
I don't think we're disagreeing on Terri... that situation is different as far as I'm concerened. She doesn't appear to have the capasity to choose, and the circumstances are suspicious.
My point is about Euthanasia, defined under Oregon law. I don't see why that choice has to be denied to peoplpe themselves.
Disconnecinting feeding tubes and pulling the plug, is already legal (in all states as far as I know) and I don't know how I'd come to that decision with a parent, spouse, or child. But grandpa's situation was one where he was of clear mind, suffering, doctors agreed on the situation, he was born again, and he had family and pastoral support. Much of the family being Christians too...
Posts: 89 | Registered: Feb 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
Danny,
I am sorry if you thought that I meant that people don't have a right to ask that some measures not be taken. My husband and I both have signed such paper. But, I was saying that although we asked that my dad be allowed to die, if he had been hooked up to a breathing machine, I could not have pulled the plug. But, that is not saying that I am judging anyone that could or did do that. Only God knows the answer.
I think what has made it so hard in this case with Terri, is her husband sent her from the hospital to a nursing home to die instead of to a place set up for her to be retaught basic skills. When my father in law had his stroke, my mother in law sent him to a place than taught him how to do many things. She had several unusal treatments done to in hopes of helping him. It seems that Terri's husband just wanted her to die and did not try anything. This has hurt her very much and is now hurting his case.
At this point I am praying that God will either heal her or take her to Heaven because no one wants to live like she is living.
But please do not think that I am judging anyone in the postion of having to make decisions about a loved one. The best thing any of us can do in such a position is pray for guidance.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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danny458
Advanced Member
Member # 4378
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
At first we were upset at God. Someone had been with him every moment for a week and all of us that night before. How could he die the one time we were out of the room? Then we realized he chose that time to die because he coule not leave us when we were there in the room.
We have come to terms with this.
One day, Danny, God will explain all things to us.
I still fail to understand why this cant be an issue of personal choice. If you think its a sin, then let God judge. This is not like abortion where one is killed by ANOTHER person's choice.
And maybe God will explain things to us. Maybe he'll say "Danny, sorry your grandpa suffered so long... I don't know where America's Christians got the idea that something like that is so wrong."
And I don't buy any of the God's timing arguments... as I mentioned in previous posts... 'pulling the plug', removing feeding tubes, transplants and other surgeries, medication... they all mess with 'God's timing'... How does anyone really know God's timing?
Posts: 89 | Registered: Feb 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
Danny,
I must admit that I often thought of that myself. When my dog was dying, we had him put to sleep. So I thought why can't we do that for people we love. BUT, when my dad was dying, my feelings changed. Although he had signed a right to die paper and we honored that. I could not have helped his death along. He lived for a week. Yes, it was painful watching him die. But, there was no way I could have hurried him alone. We stayed with him and prayed for him. But, we put him in God's hands and I feel God took him when it was God's time.
Yet this is not to be a put down on you. Because it is hard to watch them die. I think that my dad chose the moment he wanted to die. We had been with him all night and yet he hung on. At 6 that morning, he actually seemed to be improving. The nurses came in and said that his vitals were up and that they were going to change his gown and his sheets and asked us to wait in the room accross the hall. He was dead in 10 minutes. At first we were upset at God. Someone had been with him every moment for a week and all of us that night before. How could he die the one time we were out of the room? Then we realized he chose that time to die because he coule not leave us when we were there in the room.
We have come to terms with this.
One day, Danny, God will explain all things to us.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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danny458
Advanced Member
Member # 4378
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posted
Terri's case is difficult. It has been so over politicized that no one not directly involved has any idea what's really happening.
But in general (and this has NOTHING to do with Terri's case)... I have no problem with Euthinasia if done in a manner similar to Oregon's law. Only the person can decide for themself, multiple doctor's verifying a patient is terminal and suffering etc... we are artificially extending life, and now we have a list of right and wrong ways of ending a person's life. Denying medication in a case where it is sure to cause death is ok, choosing a higher level which may cause death is ok, but taking a dose that will cause death isn't? I think its silly to see people come up with these lists and rationalize their decision with some sort of 'let's not play God' sort of argument. Meanwhile we transplant organs, perform invasive surgeries, change chemical levels in the body, etc... and somehow explain that we are not 'playing God' in those cases. Choosing to end your life sounds bad, and I know its a taboo subject among conservative Christian circles, but at the end of the day, I don't think terminally ill suffering people who make a concious well thought out choice is a big deal when compared to other problems in the world today.
A personal example. My Grandpa was on his deathbed last year. 88 and in terrible pain with congestive heart failure, pnemonia... basically old age. He had an alert moment on a Sunday and said "I'm ready to go home to God. I'm in so much pain and I want to go." All his kids and many grandkids were in the room. We were sad, but all felt like this was it. "We are going to see the King" was ironically playing in the room. He drifted off to sleep, his heart rate slowed, breathing rate slowed... we thought he was gone. But no. He lived probably the worst 6 days of his life and probably for his kids as well. He woke up trying to scream a few hours later. Even though he showed little emotion during the prior weeks, this week was filled with some of the worst facial expressions I've ever seen. He said quietly "I want to die" or something similar on many occasions. Unfortunately for him, we couldn't unplug him, he was functioning on his own. The doctors were surprised he was still alive. And the family agreed that if it came down to it, there'd be no CPR or attemps to revive, or any further treatment. He refused food a few times, only to ask for it later when the hunger pains were unbearable... If we had the option of Euthinasia, I believe my grandpa would have made that choice. And I believe everyone of his kids (3 of which are 'good conservative born again Christians) and his pastor, who was there often, would have all been fully supportive.
Posts: 89 | Registered: Feb 2005
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redkermit
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Member # 4059
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posted
http://www.terrisfight.org/
Jeb must act NOW, and he can, says Keyes Governor has 'supreme executive power'
March 25, 2005
RenewAmerica staff
Thursday, Alan Keyes appeared on MSNBC's Scarborough Country with Joe Scarborough, and on Joseph Farah's national radio show, and declared that Gov. Jeb Bush not only possesses the "supreme executive authority in the state," but must act now to save Terri Schiavo.
When asked if Gov. Bush has done enough to help the disabled woman, Keyes said, "Of course not. He hasn't done anything. She is being starved to death!"
Keyes made it clear on both programs that Gov. Bush needs no permission from the courts to fulfill his statutory and constitutional duty to act in Terri's behalf, since the executive is equal to the judiciary.
To see the Joe Scarborough transcript, click here .
To see the Joseph Farah transcript, click here .
See also: Alan Keyes' essay: Why Jeb Bush has the power to act now
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I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)
1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org
Posts: 604 | From: Michigan | Registered: Nov 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif) Good thank you. Lord knows I have been known to open mouth and insert foot before!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Gramajo320
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posted
HelpForHomeSchoolers,
Truly you didn't offend me in any way and you didn't hurt my feelings in any way either. I was only clarifying that my reference was only about the court decisions which were so cold hearted. It's so barbaric to deprive Terri of liquids and nourishment while all of this has been unfolding.
I feel as you do though that God has a much larger plan for Terri and when He is ready to do so He will reveal that plan. It will be a plan that will be perfect for Terri of that we can be totally assured. We're all praying for her and for her family along with everyone else who has joined in with their prayer support.
God bless you!
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Didn't mean to offend you GrandmaJo, Forgive me. I have just been filled with this sense of awe; I am just overwhelmed with the possibility of what God could do. Might be doing. This has just overwhelmed me the past couple of days. God often confounds mankind with the ways he works and I am just overwhelmed with this sense of anticipation.
You know how Peter because he loved Jesus so did not want to hear that Jesus had to go, had to die and so he spoke these words:
Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Now we can all understand how Peter felt. The thought of Jesus going to Jesusalem to be killed at the hand of the Pharisee was something he did not want to see.
I think I sometimes am like Peter... I look at this and say why? How could they do this. Oh, it is horrible. This court is barbaric an they are. And it is just as Jesus going to die at the hands of a bunch of foolish Pharisee, it was horrible, but it was God's will. There was a bigger picture.
My prayers for this situation had been....Lord take her quickly have mercy don't let her suffer, my prayers have been Oh, God make that court give this woman food and hydration or take her right away that she doesnot suffer.
And then It occured to me if they do intervene then they the court will get praise for her life. If God takes her quickly then her husband wins and they say see she was not to live the tubes kept her alive. God just might be doing something big...a big picture I can't see. So this sense of anticipation has filled me and I feel like oh, maybe it is not a tragedy, maybe it just looks like a tragedy, maybe God is about to do something fantastic.
Anyway, I didnt mean to hurt your feelings I am just oh so on the edge of my seat with anticipation for what God will do next.
Maybe he will take her home; but maybe he will raise her up out of that bed. Oh what a day that would be ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif) Either way God is good!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Gramajo320
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posted
HelpForHomeSchoolers,
The cold hearted tragedy I spoke of was only in reference to each of the court's decisions! God is the only one who has will perform miracles and we pray for one for Terri according to His will.
n Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
What if is not a cold hearted tragedy, but an opportunity for God to show himself mighty in spite of all that man can do?
Our God is an Awesome and a Mighty God. What is impossible with men is possible with God. Let us have faith in what God can do. God does not need a supreme court to do what God will do.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Gramajo320
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posted
The supreme court has just refused to order Terri Shiavo's feeding tube re-inserted. They gave no reason as to why they have denied or ruled this way. This is a cold hearted tragedy and the Lord hold Terri close in his arms and bless her! We all need to keep praying for her!
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
It gives me goosebumps that this is comfirmed in you all. My husband and I were just talking on the phone and that is what we also spoke of that we could see her stand before congress herself and tell the truth about what has happened to her. It would begin with her to raise up out of that bed and say 'I want to live!"
Also I have been thinking about her parents faith. her parents believe that she will recover; Let us pray yes, let us pray for her swift and speedy recovery and May God get the glory!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
That is the prayer that has been in my heart all afternoon, that she would be able to speak out, "I want to live!!!!"
Wow - Wouldn't that be something!!! Gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. ![[hyper]](graemlins/hyper.gif)
Maybe we should all band together and, as you and Linda say, pray a different prayer!!!!
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
That is the prayer that has been in my heart all afternoon, that she would be able to speak out, "I want to live!!!!"
May our Lord move with a miracle and witness to confound the executioners, and fill the hearts of His children with joy and thanksgiving.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Something occurs to me. Terri has been without food for 6 days; Many many of us have been praying that God would either intervene through the courts or take her quickly. He has done neither.
What if we were to change our prayers. What if all across this nation, we began to pray differently? What if we began to pray for a miracle...a Lazurus come forth miracle?
Is it possible that we have prayed amiss? Is it possible that God wants us to show uncommon faith? Is it possible that God wants to show in America a miracle that will rock the nation? Maybe even the world.
Just a thought?
I agree! This has been my thought and prayer all day!
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Something occurs to me. Terri has been without food for 6 days; Many many of us have been praying that God would either intervene through the courts or take her quickly. He has done neither.
What if we were to change our prayers. What if all across this nation, we began to pray differently? What if we began to pray for a miracle...a Lazurus come forth miracle?
Is it possible that we have prayed amiss? Is it possible that God wants us to show uncommon faith? Is it possible that God wants to show in America a miracle that will rock the nation? Maybe even the world.
Just a thought?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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posted
We might remember that the institution of abortion in 1973 was done by the Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade.
Prayer and the Bible readings were removed from the public school in 1964, by the Supreme Court from a lawsuit brought by Murray Madelin O'Hare the atheist.
Neither was voted on but was a case of law being legislated from the Judicial branch of government.
The year that Martin Luther King made his, "I have a Dream", speech. The year that President Kennedy was assasinated in Dallas, TX., we were saying the Lord's Prayer in school, and we were each taking turns reading Bible passages to start the day, along with the flag salute.
The year that saw the Beatles come to America, that saw an escalation in Vietnam, God was removed from the classroom.
The year my eldest daughter was born, was the first year that babies were legally butchered in America. Her graduating class was the first class to have its numbers decimated by legalized murder. God was expelled and infanticide was legalized, legislated by a panel of 9 justices.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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yeshuaslavejeff
Advanced Member
Member # 4506
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posted
quote from other thread: (see connection shortly)
Brother Ripp writes
quote:The world is so very angry these days.
The world has been a lot angrier. The days of the Assyrians and Chaldean Babylonians and the earlier days, when the city-state of Mari on the Euphrates valley was attacked by another city-state. All the heads fo the citizens of Mari were piled on one side of the gate, and the corpses on the other. In those days, they cut the hands off too, which were then later counted to determine the deathcount. America and Europe and Asia is still a piece of cake compared to the much more dangerous "back-then."
>back then, perhaps a few thousand were killed,
counting adults and children.
>now, not counting adults and children,
in the u.s.a,
hands and heads are cut off of thousands,
every day.
in utero.
their whole complete bodies ripped asunder by
vacuums or cutting instruments.
>this, by the way, like taking prayer out of school,
was approved by voting(i think).
does anyone still think
the us is a 'good' or 'christian' country ?
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1Peter4:1,2 Yeshua suffered physical suffering:disciples have same mind/ willingness to share shame/physical suffering with Yeshua/His people.
Biblio:"willtherealhereticsplease standup?"byBercot(churchTruth)
Posts: 75 | From: tulsa | Registered: Mar 2005
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yeshuaslavejeff
Advanced Member
Member # 4506
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posted
Luke would not have been allowed to practice medicine in the u.s.a.
He loved the Truth.
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1Peter4:1,2 Yeshua suffered physical suffering:disciples have same mind/ willingness to share shame/physical suffering with Yeshua/His people.
Biblio:"willtherealhereticsplease standup?"byBercot(churchTruth)
Posts: 75 | From: tulsa | Registered: Mar 2005
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
Did you hear; I saw today on MSN that the judge has refused to order the feeding tube be restored. May God Have Mercy!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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LaurieFL
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Member # 3794
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posted
Luke was a doctor. I think doctors and medical technology can be abused like any other thing, but can also be used as the hand of God.
AS for the Terry Schiavo situation, I think it is just monstrous what her husband is doing.
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yeshuaslavejeff
Advanced Member
Member # 4506
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posted
to caretaker drew ? if I read right.
for over 18 years i've been taught virtually free the cure for most cancers and diseases.
nothing ever, never never never, new age, nor yoga, nor mind over anything, nor anything not in obedience to Scripture.
a lot of nots ![[Smile]](smile.gif) because so many things are used by so many people thoughtlessly and without honoring G-d.
stay in line with Scripture, stay in Truth. Yahweh provided long ago(3 or 4 thousand years?)
the prevention and reversal of most illnesses that afflict americans today. yet, while this is simply obvious in Scripture(if you can read, you can know - if you're willing to love/obey Yahweh.
if you can't read, you can still know - Yahweh is pleased to let the untaught know, on the same condition that they are willing to love/obey Truth.) "a little child shall lead them."?
i've got to go now for a while, will try to get back tonight or this Shabbat, Yahweh willing.
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1Peter4:1,2 Yeshua suffered physical suffering:disciples have same mind/ willingness to share shame/physical suffering with Yeshua/His people.
Biblio:"willtherealhereticsplease standup?"byBercot(churchTruth)
Posts: 75 | From: tulsa | Registered: Mar 2005
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HisGrace
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posted
H4HS I wasn't referring to your post at all. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
I have to believe that if they are successful in having her food and hydration taken, God will be merciful and take her home very quickly. We certainly need to continue pray for her and for her family. I cannot imagine what her mother must be going through. I have not followed this story very closely but it is hard to believe that her family has been so powerless in this whole ordeal. I just can't imagine being in that position and having to watch someone else make these kinds of decisions for my child's life.
I hope you did not think I was conding anything for Terri; I thought we were talking in general about these things and not about her specific situation which is certainly tragic.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
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posted
How can anyone condone such a barbaric death for this young woman. She is going to starve, plus suffer from dehydration. We hear of cases of people being so desperate from dehydation that they drink their own urine. I can't bear to even think of what Terri will be going through- even if it took a couple of days, let alone a few weeks. This is a memory that her family will have to live with for the rest of their lives.
We wouldn't even do that to an animal. As my 17-yr old cat was dieing at home a few years ago I had her lapping up thinned-down cream of wheat to make sure she was as comfortable as possible during her last hours.
Saw Terri Schiavo's brother interviewd on CNN and he said that she is communicating in her own way. Her husband tries to claim she is in a vegetative state. Probably you have seen the video clip of her mother interacting with Terri. She was propped up in her bed with a huge smile on her face. Her brother claims that 33 doctors have seen and claim that she is fairly alert. Her husband said that many of them saw pictures only. But you can tell from this clip that she is very responsive.
If she were sustained by breathing with mechanical means, that would be a different story, but she is breathing on her own. If she were on life support hooked up to a ventilotor, in that case I believe it would be ok to pull the plug.
Her husband claims that she said she wouldn't want to be dependant on life support. I'm sure she couldn't have made her wishes known after she collapsed, so how can we be sure that she ever did say such a thing. He has no written proof. Why on earth, if he doesn't want to be responsible for her, doesn't he let her family take over?? They are heart broken over this whole issue and have the church community behind them.
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Caretaker
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posted
Amen and Amen Sis!!!
I long for the glories of Heaven, and to even just be able to catch a glimpse of my precious Lord Jesus from afar has the tears welling up in joy. If my heart would give out in the next second I would be so very thankful, for Home awaits. It is up to my Father how long I wait.
If I get a wound I will treat it. If sick I will pray and I will take cold medicine. I have not been to a doctor in 16 years, and it is irrelevant to me, for His will be done.
There are no pat answers but lets just pray for His will be done, and for Him to provide wisdom and insight, and we will just love the Lord with all of our heart, mind and soul, and love one another with the love of Christ in our hearts.
And may our hearts and prayers be with all involved in the Schaivo case.
God bless.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Yes, Drew, Thank you for and Matt for brining the question of newborns into my thought. Frankly I do not think I have considered this in my thinking of these areas. For me, I think I would still feel the same way, but at the same time Praise God that you have been given the pleasure of enjoying your children and raising them for the Lord.
I just personally struggle with medical technology. I find it hard to accept that it is of God and yet, I know that this is probably not fair or right because where do we draw the line. What about antibiotics and that sort of thing? It is one area where I tend to want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I do know this. But there is so much that I cannot reconcile with a Biblical worldview. I as you all know recently within the last year was in the hospital with a strep infection in my bloodstream. Had it not been for antibiotics and medical attention, I would have, could have died. Do I think God willed me to die? No. Obviously, I am still here, and who would give BA grief if I were not? He he he ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) But I also know that if it were not for sin and the things that we all do in this world to live in ways that are not God's ways we probably would not have these superbugs that we have. We want our cake and we want to eat it too; me included in some areas. So, for me medical technology is a struggle; it does not jive with my Biblical world view and so I do not know what to do with it. So, I tend to cast it out. I think that is the nature of the struggle that we all have in one area or another as we try to live in a very unbiblical world with a Biblical worldview. Maybe this keeps us looking for the Day when God is All In All?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
That is a very good point Matt. All three of my children were born premature.
Melissa six weeks early at 4 lbs 14 oz, she was in the hospital for two weeks and needed care. She is now 31 with 5 babies and my eldest is Bethany who is 10 and sings solos in her church.
Rob is 26 and is getting ready to graduate from Emporia State, is 6' 200lbs, and bowls with me. He was born 8 wks early weighed 4 lbs 5 ozs, and was in the hospital for 8 wks, and needed neo-natal intensive care.
Ally is 16, plays softball, is on her High School honors choir, and hit some beautiful soprano notes last night in her spring musical. She was born 11 weeks early weighed 2 lbs 14 ozs, and only through technology, and fervent prayer could she have survived.
Each of my children has received Christ, and my grand-children are coming to Christ as they reach an age of awareness. Melissa is training to be a lay minister in her church, with a ministry to couples.
There are no easy answers, but we must seek God's will.
My cousin Sam has cancer in his lung and they just discovered it in his brain. He has chosen to pursue active treatment, radiation. For myself I would leave it in God's hands and seek prayer and pain killers.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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redkermit
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posted
Linda,
Thank you so much for sharing. My roommate had to make those decisions for his mother just last year. She had actually attempted to commit suicide, but his dad found her and she was on life support at the hospital. They had to make that decision to remove the life support, and it tore him apart.
I actually agree with most of what you said with regards to technology and extending life. I am only 31, but I suppose I should have it in writing somewhere that I do not want to be maintained via artificial means. While reading your post, it caused me to think of the issue in another matter. What about artificial support for newborns? Should we let nature take its course with all newborns? Something to consider...
Matt
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I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)
1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org
Posts: 604 | From: Michigan | Registered: Nov 2004
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
Sister Linda my precious Sister in Christ;
My heart is with you, and I wept when I read about your faithful love and dedication for your father.
My Dad died of ALS, muscular dystrophy where the muscles begin shutting down. He was given a feeding tube because he choked on his food. When his breathing became so weakened he lapsed into unconciousness. We provided oxygen but we did not allow them to hook up the respirator. He was unconcious and his breathing became weaker and weaker. We gave him what he needed for life, but we did not provide mechanical means of prolonging.
Its been 23 years but I can still remember the moment when the next breath never came.
In the Terri Schaivo case she was denied rehabilitation, but was transferred directly into a nursing home. There is a potential to rehabilitate to eliminate the feeding tube. May we keep her in our prayers.
May God grant faith, wisdom, and discernment to His precious children.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
Drew, would it have been torture and murder before the technology existed to give her food and water? Is is only torture and murder now because man has that technology?
This is such a tough issue. I sometimes feel that it should be mandatory that every human being that is of the age of consent and able write out their wishes do so, because this is such a personal issue.
For me, I think that medical science goes to far with its attempts to suistain life. But I would not impose my views on another human being. I think that we ought to let this body die when the good Lord says its time to go. I personally do not believe that God was behind the creation of all this technology and I do not expect many to agree with me and that is ok, because that is just my opinion for me, I would not impose it on another.
I had to make these decisions for my father and I had to battle my mother over them. My father had told me that he was ready to go. Thank God he was able to communicate that in spite of the fact that a stroke had taken his ability to speak. My father his whole life from the time I was a very young child... maybe 6 or 7 had made me promise that I would never allow them to keep his body alive by artificial means.
I knowing his will and that it had been his will his whole life and that he had told me that he was ready to go was able to make those decisions with certainty that they were the right decisions; I prayed about them and I knew that if God did not want him to go now, God would not take him in spite of my decisions.
But that did not make it easy to deal with my mother and it did not make it easy to deal with the hospital, though his doctor did support me. He was the only one who did. I can't imagine having to be in that position under different circumstances.
My father had a stroke, he was taken to the hospital by ambulance and he was paralized on one side of his body and he was not able to speak. By the next morning He was not able to breath without assitance. Without our consent, he was hooked up to a respirator and a feeding tube and IV hydration. Then we were called and told we should come back to the hospital. That morning, the morning of his death his kidneys had failed and I refused dialysis. I did also order all machines be unplugged and I did also order that the feeding tube and IV hydration be stoped. My father died within a few hours.
Does this make me a murderer and a torturer?
I think that euthanasia is murder and we cannot do it; but it is odd to me to understand that only God has the right to take a life, but to fail to understand that only God should sustain a life. The scripture say these two things... the coming in of life and the going out of life are by HIS ordination. When we sustain life do we not seek to change the going out of life by our own power? Again, I know this will be wierd thinking to some of you, but wierd as it may be it is my thinking.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
The Terri Schaivo case is sure in our hearts and prayers. She has been denied any sort of rehabilitation. She was taken to a nursing home rather than a rehabilitation center, on her husband's orders. To deny her food and water is torture and murder, and they would not allow this to be done to stray dogs.
On the other hand I would not want to be hooked to a machine/s to mechanicly sustain life in a lifeless/mindless cadaver.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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redkermit
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
In the Terri Shiavo case they want to remove her feeding tube and deny her food and water. It is not the same as removing mechanical life support.
There is a difference between not using extraordinary means to sustain life (such as a respirator), allowing to die, and administering a lethal substance, such as an overdose of morphine in a terminally ill patient.
Yes, there is a difference. I only referenced Terri Schiavo because that is what made me think on these other topics.
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I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)
1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
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Posts: 604 | From: Michigan | Registered: Nov 2004
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
In the Terri Shiavo case they want to remove her feeding tube and deny her food and water. It is not the same as removing mechanical life support.
There is a difference between not using extraordinary means to sustain life (such as a respirator), allowing to die, and administering a lethal substance, such as an overdose of morphine in a terminally ill patient.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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I know if I was not going to recover where I could take care of myself. I would rather someone pull the plug.
Then I would either live if God wanted me to, or go on to heaven.
Profound answer..... grin... but my 2 cents.
But if someone has not told anyone their dicision on this. Then yes I will try and keep them alive.
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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redkermit
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posted
Euthanasia, life support, and DNR's.
I was reading an article in the USA Today, and it really made me think. The article was about the Terri Schiavo case in Florida. I’m sure most of you know the story, but if not, you can see a short description here: Terri Schiavo
It made me wonder what others think about these situations, or even euthanasia. As usual, just looking for your thoughts and opinions.
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I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)
1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org
Posts: 604 | From: Michigan | Registered: Nov 2004
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