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Author
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Topic: Holy Living
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Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
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posted
I have been studying the "Follies of Occultic Life, Religion and Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ."
In the past history of recent life, those who or the organization who have forced people by knife point to convert actually did that or they were able to force the tangible part of human life to follow. But down deep in the heart/the soul/ and the mind (the untangible parts of human existence-you know it is there but you can not touch it) no one can truly forced anyone to live a spiritual, holy life, however there is a church (and other occultic religions like Islam) who sits on 7 hills and through out its life have forced people to convert or be killed.Do you remember the Jews being forced to take up that belief and given an ultimatum to convert etc.. or die or be expelled?It happened in Spain in 1492. Do you remember the Aztecs,Incas,Mayan and the other Native Americans that were forced to convert to western ideals or be killed etc.. How about Hilter and how about the future Antichrist a coming to force his mark or give ye death! A true and perfect belief will never force a person to convert. In Jesus we all have to come to a personal decision to reject Him or accept Him. We just provide the information of Grace that is readily available in the Bible. As many of you declare and I also adovate it, it is definitely true that no one can force the mind,the soul and the heart to convert, but they sure do think they are doing it. Even when the Antichrist comes to power he will try to force people to take his mark, and many will because they have been lied to or occultic to. Any person coming in a name of the Christ who kills, force belief etc.. is an ANTICHRIST. I believe infant baptism is shrewed way of forcing someone to follow a belief by subtile force. The infant is not given the right to decide because he is too young. So by tradition parents think that by baptism the child will be obligated to live and do the things of that church. Faith without Jesus is emptiness.
What seperates the true believer ( church) from a false church is its' ability to allow free choice. Even God will not force His existence on man (REV 3:20) but the penalty to choose not to believe and not to follow Jesus is death (seperation) II THESS 1:8-9 .
So the sum of all things is this: One may try to be a good person but without faith in Jesus Christ, you are like Pharises,Sanhidrin,and Scribes.-Fuctioning But Empty. You have a false holiness, a false beseechment and a false quest.
Those who have voluntariy come to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ is holy because of the blood of the Lamb.************** THEREFORE BEING BY FAITH, we have peace with God through our LORD JESUS CHRIST; By whom also we have access by faith into this GRACE wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of GOD. ANd hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of GOD is shed abroad by the HOLY SPIRIT which is given unto us, (Romans 5:1,2 & 5)
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Holy means separate or other than in the context of Scripture.
Only Yahweh can make a person Holy.
To become Holy a person must be made Holy by Yahweh.
You can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink. The same is true of men and women. You can not forse someone that is not "Born Again" to keep Yahweh's Law. Yahweh must create in any idividual a new heart, remove the heart of stone they were born with.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Lunarius
Advanced Member
Member # 4205
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posted
Eduardo, as a general response to your poll I would have to vote "no", but you should know that the point that you are trying to bring across in your question contains a concept that is unrelated to itself. Unless you meant something else that I am not understanding, the logic in your question would be simlilar to that of a question asked like this, "Should airplane pilots be forced to take the bar exam?"
Now, right off, many people would answer "no" to this, but it would probably also occur to them that the concept of piloting and law exams are vastly unrelated.
So in the FIRST place, people who are not Christians/born again/regenerated should not be forced to follow Christian beliefs and traits because the given traits would have nothing to do with how they live their lives - the concept of forcefulness in these cases is a moot point because they are not AWARE of the traits to be able to adhere to them.
SECONDLY, the only group of people who would be remotely likely to force anyone to practice and follow CHRISTIAN attributes of traits would be Christians themselves.. However, TRUE Christians don't FORCE people to do ANYTHING. We are messengers and workers of God, not dictators, therefore this kind of takes the "remote" chance down to no chance at all.
LASTLY, How could anyone be FORCED into religious beliefs and practices? I don't see how that could come to be - If you truly believe then you truly believe; if you don't, then you don't! People who close their hearts off and don't want it are not going to accept it unless God helps or allows them to have a change of heart, in which case they would be able to use their FREE WILL to eventually acccept and get to know about the Spirit of God (this last part was inspired by the responses of HisGrace and wparr - thank you).
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"Life is a song, love is the music"
Posts: 133 | From: Alabama (currently) | Registered: Dec 2004
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Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
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posted
WPARR and everyone- I believe that too many good people are caught up in the false security of good works due to hipe.The definition of good means different things to different people. Perhaps they get this from organization that stress moral living from people that do stress Born Again thru Jesus but its message evades more and more as they become politically saturated. Jesus said, He is the way and the only way to heaven. My treasures are laid up in heaven and because of this, I need not to worry so much about the laws of land or the lack thereof. God is going to create a New Heaven and New Earth- we should keep the Great Commission Alive and Well and not get caught up on hipe that could deter someone from making a free will choice concerning the Messiah Yeshua. I know and respect a lot of organizations that started out very simple minded but the technical hipe invaded their basic belief and now are control by ( for the lack of a better word) religio-politics. Because we are saved, we should be willing to live a moral life declaring God sovereign grace as the reason for the change. Not one unregenerated person is obligated to live by Gods Law. But all humans are obligated to live under the laws that govern the Land. Just because a law that is in force does not mean it came from God. Because the law of the Land has given permission for abortion etc.. and euphonasia does not mean Christians should abide by it. We christians when asked should give an accountability of our belief and not waver from it. Alot of people die when good people do nothing. Define good and Define evil and then define absolute good and absolute evil. If your treasures are laid upon the earth than asked yourself- am I trully born again? The bible says not everyone who has a knowledge of Jesus is born again.The knowledge of Jesus must cause us to act upon what Romans 10:9-10 and Romans 12:1-2 says.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
1 Corinthians 5:11 through 1 Corinthians 5:13 (NIV)
11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”
Just some info.... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[type]](graemlins/type.gif)
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
unregistered
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posted
I voted "No" because God doesn't force us to do anything - we are given free choice to accept or deny his commands.
The Bible says that everything we do is in vain, even good works, if we aren't a believer. As HFHS says it is impossible to follow the traits and attributes of a Christian unless we are born again.
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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
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posted
I voted yes because most of our laws are based on the Ten Commandments. Even non Christians can live a life that is free from commiting crimes. We all know "good" people who would never steal or cheat others.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
I voted no because without the power of the Holy Spirit that indwells us who are born again, we cannot follow Christ's attributes and traits; and Christ's attributes and traits are the traits of a Christian.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
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posted
LEV 20:7
SANCTIFY yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: I am the Lord which sanctify you.
Yesterday I encounter a person wearing a cross, saying and doing evil so wicked that her fruits were defining her as a child of Satan. For the first time in the longest of time, I went to her and asked her -Are you a christian? Do you believe in Jesus?
She expounded it is none of your business. I told her- sure it was. As long as you are wearing that cross and doing those things which are contrary to the meaning of that cross, it is my business.
For the cross, means a lot to so many, but for the most part it tells me, you have a need to know the person behind that cross or you are just someone who think it is a pretty peice of jewlery and that people should take pity on you.
THE command of holiness is a command of obedience to your God and Saviour. If you choose not to believe in God and Jesus, then keep doing what you are doing, eventually you will be judge by the Holy God and creator of your body. Only christians are mandated to live a holy and seperate life that wlll define who they believe and trust in.
I BESEECH YOU therefore brethern by the mercies of GOD, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice,HOLY,ACCEPTABLE unto GOD, which is your reasonable service. AND be not conformed to this world: but be you transformed by the renewing of your mind,THAT YOU MAY PROVE WHAT IS THAT GOOD, AND ACCEPTABLE, AND PERFECT will of GOD. Roms 12:1-2
Look at these verses- and ask yourself -who is the author addressing? why would a need of beseechment be necessariy? and are these verses addressed to the entire population or just a choosen few. Why of all things a living sacrifice and not a dead sacrifice?
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
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posted
Should a person who is not regenerated (born again) be forced to follow christian attributes of traits? Yes or No and explain what you think.
Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 11 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.
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Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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