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Topic: Do you think that homosexuals choose to be the way they are?
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RioLion
unregistered
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posted
I referenced the study on "The Health Risks of Gay Sex" on a forum that had homosexuals on it.
They do not like it at all claiming that the author is bias and slants his statistics to support his pre-conceived conviction.
My comments were that as one that has taught statistics at the graduate level, that one can access this data and by employing recognized statistical techniques can find the same inferences.
They were quick to point out that Dr. Diggs, the author of the article, was a failed advocate of sexual abstinence. However, I pointed out that they were simply attacking the messenger and ignoring the message. And that I am not sure if the abstinence program is really a failed effort.
Anyway, maybe I made a dent in some of their armour that will be to their advantage at a later date. I find it a real challenge in dealing with these people.
My conclusion is that homosexual behavior is indeed a chosen behavior; not something that is inherent as we can view the testimonies of many that have departed this destructive lifestyle in part because of the graciousness of our Lord.
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
After reading that article I was overwhelmed by the statement it makes about the power of the flesh over us. THe statisics on the irresponsibility issues are amazing and it seems that the more it is out of the closet so to speak, the more it is acceptable in a society, the more caution is thrown to the wind. Still even after reading it, I can't feel anything but compassion and heartbreak for the real human faces that are those statistics and that is because I believe that the real root of the issue is Satan. We wonder why God tarries, but he tarries for these, the ones who are lost and without hope, the ones who are in such bondage that these horrible things are just a given reality that comes with the lifestyle that they live. John is right NO one in their right mind would chose this, but people do chose this, people chose this because we sit silent and allow satan to convince the world and these who are in the world that this is not a choice, but a destiny. I could never accept that this is a destiny;why would any one want to believe that you were born for this? How can anyone accept, much less encourage the sceintist that want to prove you were born for this? Who is the enemy here? it is not God. THrough Christ there is hope, through Christ we can say NO, this is not my destiny; this is not something I was born to; through Christ we can have a choice.
My GOD, MY God the world is so upside down! ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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RioLion
unregistered
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posted
Thank you very much for the references - particularly the first was the most informative.
After reading that 18 page article, I think that anyone would lose total sight of any temptation to indulge in homosexual acts.
More likely, those that chose the homosexual lifestyle do so out of ignorance for the consequences. Homosexuality is clearly a death lifestyle.
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
Well if your request is serious then here is a link to a study that you can dowload, most of the data is too disgusting to post here:
http://www.corporateresourcecouncil.org/white_papers/Health_Risks.pdf
Infromation is also available from NARTH the national Association for Research and therapy of homosexuality.
http://www.narth.com/docs/risks.html
But of the things that can be posted how about a risk of cancer that is 4,000% higher than in heterosexual men.
One study of 200 homosexual men found 53% to have dysplasia like that in women which is the precursor to cervical cancer and is caused by the human papaloma virus. The CDC reccomends that Homosexual men have Pap smears to detect early the presence of the Human papiloma virus and prevent rectal cancer.
A greater incidence of clinical depression and bi polar disorders.
Herpes Type 8 is exclusive to male homosexuals
Higher incidence of gastro-intestinal bacterial infections and parisites
Greater incidence of hepatitis B & C; 21% of all hepatitis b cases were trasmitted through homosexual sex vs 18% by hererosexual sex, but when you consider the homosexual population is 1-3% of the male population the numbers become much more telling.
This doesnt even address sexually transmitted or venerial diseases. Syphyllis for example has been all but iradicated int he heterosexual population has become epidemic in places of high homesexual populations such as San Diego.
It also does not address the serious physical, anotmical medical problems caused from using a body part as it was not designed my God to be used.
As you have stated mortality rates are higher something like 32% probability of a 20 year old gay man would live to 65 vs 78 % probability that a heterosexual man would live to age 65, and this is only if only 3% of the populations is studied. This study says that the mortality rate among homosexuals pales in comparison with the shortedned lifespan of a smoker which is about 13.5 years.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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RioLion
unregistered
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posted
I had not planned on entering into this discussion but decided to review what was posted.
What I would like is for someone to tell me what physical illnesses / diseases could I expect to contend with if I became a homosexual.
I know that one could gets AIDS but what other health problems or illnesses would I expect?
I understand that the suicide rate for homosexuals is some multiple far above the normal population.
Any available and reliable statistics and sources would be appreciated.
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
SinlessthruChrist:
The Lord God Rebuke you! God has called his church to condemn sin. There is not one person here that has spoken of Homosexual sex as anything but sin.
But it is attitude like yours expressed in this post above to this man a sinner, that condemns people who are in bondage to remain in bondage to their sin and in danger of eternal damnation.
God has not called you or any Christian to condemn the sinner. The sinner is already condemned.
God has called HIS church to be light in the darkness, to bring HIS Gospel of repentence, love, grace, mercy and forgiveness of sin to the world that is lost in sin.
GOD has called HIS church to set captives free not to condemn them.
You seem to think you have a minstry of condemnation of people. YOu will not use this board to minister condemnation to people.
This BOARD is HIS board and it will be used for HIS ministry which is the condemnation of SIN and the Freedom of those people who are in bondage to sin through CHRIST and the sacrifice he has made for their freedom and for yours and mine.
You say:
quote:
dont really care what anyone here thinks of me in any way some of you are being to nice being gay or lesbian is sick and wrong any one who is will be destroyed if they dont change repent and turn from there sin.
I will say, yes you are right we are being nice to a sinner and it is not sick or wrong. It is what Jesus would be. Was Jesus nice to the harlot?
Perhaps you better pluck the beam out of your own eye and realize that you too were a sinner and your sins no less greivious to God than this man's;
Then you you better thank God that someone was nice enough to you a sinner to tell you about Jesus;
Then you better also thank GOD that he gave you what you needed to see and confess your sins if you did and come to the place of his grace and forgivenenss if you have, because that my friend you did not so on your own, but you did, if you have done so, by HIS mercy and grace alone.
Then you better ask GOD to forgive you for misusing this opportunity to minister life to the dead that he has given you, by minstering instead of life....condemnation of souls rather than condemnation of sin.
Then when you have done all of this, you really would do well to get on your knees and pray that God show this man, a homosexual sinner, the same mercy that he has shown you and that HE impart the Holy Spirit to this man so that he might see his sin and repent, less God hold his blood on your hands for sending him away with the hate that you spew.
If you need the scriptures to support what I have said above you let me know and I will provide them.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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LaurieFL
Advanced Member
Member # 3794
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posted
White Eagle - I think I was actually in agreement with your statement that it is a spritual battle and that it is an attack by Satan. What I disagreed with was where I perceived that you were saying that it always arose from a choice on behalf of the person (that they opened themselves up to attacks). I believe demonic attacks, such as those from pornography being in the house or molestation going on, etc., can create the problems we are speaking of here, through no fault of the person. Those are strongholds that have to be recognized and dealt with though!
IDO agree that choosing to actively fantasize about immoral behaviors, seek out pornography depicting or describing those behaviors, and actively engaging in those behaviors are definitely active personal choices and are sinful.
I do liken it to any other form of addiction - which is in essence a term used by secular humanists to describe enslavery to sin. Homosexuality seems to me to be more difficult to overcome than drug addiction, due to the way it is confusing and attacks a person at the core of their very being. That doesn't mean God can't deliver a person from it though!
I believe we are to love the people who suffer from this, but as Linda said, we cannot tolerate blasphemy or condone their actions if they continue to sin.
Posts: 700 | Registered: Aug 2004
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Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
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posted
The act of having sex outside marriage (between a man and a woman) is a sin. Speaking from my personal experience-I know how it feels to want to have sex with the same sex. My problem extended from my upbringing. For the longest time I have thought sex between anyone was correct until I read the bible and found out that I was sinning. You see as an 8 years old child, my brothers and I were sold to my dad's friend for what ever desire he wanted to do. So being young like I was- this lifesyle was forced on me. From the moment I read in the bible when I was 16 years old (8 1/2 years went by of sex between this person) that having sex outside of marraige is a sin, my innerself fell literally apart. It is a choice to either sin or not. The hardest thing I have to deal with each and everyday is how this childhood of mine affected my marriage, and how to give it to the LORD day by day and each minute. Both my wife and I have been down this road. The bible says it is a sin- guess what it is a sin. Do you remember King David how he lusted after another man's wife and commited adultery, murder, lying etc.. He made a choice to disobey rather than go to Jehova and ask for forgiveness and strength. Giving into temptation, means you meet someone who strikes your fancy and then you dwell on it and it consumes you and in your heart you are having sex. Eventually the temptation overpowers you and you seek after this thrill and try to justify it before God and man and commit the very act of having sex outside martial bonds.
People say they were born like that. Honey you were either born a man or woman. You make a choice to sin or not to sin and with each decison it carries consequences with it. When you obey God-your mind and spirit are connect to God, when you disobey obey your relationship suffers because fo the negative choice you make.
In the old testament as well as the new testament it depcits homosexual acts as well as heterosexual acts are an out right sin. God loves the sinner but hates sin.
Romans 1:18-32
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
because what may be known of God is manifest n them, for God has shown it to them.
For since the creation of the world His invisible atrributes are clearly seen, being understood by te things that are made, even HIS eternal power and GODHEAD, so that they are WITHOUT EXCUSE,
because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Professing to be wise, they became fools,
and changed the glory of the INCORRUPTIBLE God into an image made like corruptible man- and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
who excanged the TRUTH of GOD for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. AMEN.
For this reason GOD gave them up to VILE passions.For even their WOMEN exchanged the natural use fo what is against nature.
Likewise also the MEN, leaving the natural use of the woman, BURNED in their lust for one another, men withmn committing what is SHAMEFUL, and receiving in themselves the PENALTY of their ERROR which was. due.
And even as thy did not like to retain GOd in their knowledge, GOd gave THEM over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting,
being fillled with ALL unrighteousnes, SEXUAL immorality,wickedness,covertousness,maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,unmerciful;
who,knowing the righteous judgement of God, that those WHO PRACTICE such things are deserving of DEATH, not only to the same but approve of those who practce them.
Well in the nutshell man has a choice to make- he will either deny himeself and serve God after the tenats of God or remain in his fallen state, his probated mind, in his unrighteousness.
Romans 1:36 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to fatith, as it is written, "THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH "
PSALMS 111
Praise the Lord! I will prase the Lord with my whole heart, In the assembly ofthe upright and in the congregation.
The works of he Lord are great, Studied by all who have pleasure in them.
His work is honorable and glorious, And His righteousnes endures foever.
He has made His wonderful works to be remembered;
The Lord is gracious and full of compassion.
He has given food to those who fear Him; He ill ever be mindful of His covenant.
He has declared to His people the power of His works, In giving them the heritage of the nations.
The works of His hands are truth and justice; ALL His precepts are sure.
They stand fast forever and ever, And are done in truth,and uprighteouss.
He has sent redemption*******to His people;He has commanded His covenant forever: HOLY and AWESOME is His name.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments.
HIS PRAISES ENDURES FORVER.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by LaurieFL:
I disagree respectfully with White Eagle's take on homosexuality and its originations. I think that it may be true for some people, but I think in other cases it may be the result of something that happened to them that they had no control over that resulted in these feelings of attraction.
I believe my issues were started by the presence of pornography in my house, which I did happen to find at a very young age. This is why I wonder if that might be the case for other people, although of course my evidence is purely subjective and situational.
Hi Laurie, it's OK, as you are correct too, some people do have a history of sexual abuse as a child or were sodomized. Porn is definitely a doorway. I was just giving Jon the spiritual connection to this problem. I do strongly agree that sometimes incidents happen to innocent children and they are given this spirit through the sin of some adult.
It's not a simple issue.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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Favor Minded
unregistered
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posted
A Strong Man will admit his wrong, will fall on his knees and recognize the Power and Strength of our Lord Jesus Christ.
God the Father WANTS that everyone know him intimately however...
As long as anyone continues to lash out in anger, to point fingers and blame God, he will simply wait patiently until their brokenness is sufficient to keep them quiet long enough to hear from him.
It is very difficult to hear God's voice when we are so busy screaming about what it wrong with us and blaming God.
He wants to help - But he will help in HIS timing, in HIS way -
Why do you think you are here John? Because GOD HIMSELF brought you here...
You may think it coincidence, but it is not. It was God - Causing you to find fellowship and understanding, and to help you through it.
Stop making excuses and accept Gods teachings - He will make you whole and complete, and will restore to you what you desire. You must, however, stop blaming God and TRUST him.
It is EASY to make excuses, it is HARD to really DO something about it.
Nothing WORTHWHILE is EASY, remember -
God started a work in you and HE WILL finish it, just as he is doing for ALL of us here...
You are saved, sanctified and redeemed through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, but you MUST turn and believe God for his miraculous healing...
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sinlessthroughchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 4099
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posted
I dont really care what anyone here thinks of me in any way some of you are being to nice being gay or lesbian is sick and wrong any one who is will be destroyed if they dont change repent and turn from there sin.That is one of the reasons God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.(Leviticus 20:13
13. If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them).ITs there own falt not God's there blood was on there head we cant put people to death no days but still its there own falt so dont non of you blame God.(Leviticus 18:22-23 22. Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
23. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion). (Romans 1:26-27. 26. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet).This should be the message change from your evil ways and repent and turn from your sin or you will die in your sin.Romans 6:22-23. 22. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.If you are sick and cant help but be turned on being gay or lesbian ![[BooHoo]](graemlins/boohoo.gif)
Posts: 24 | From: arkansas | Registered: Nov 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
John check your private mail; I have sent you a private mail that tells you what I did with your threads. look in the upper left hand area of your screen you will see a link that says you have a private message. ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
Just so the rest of you know; I did delete some of John's posts; I deleted ones that had cursing in them and were just plain rude. and I deleted a very sarcastic comment out of the thread that Heather (Wonder04) has been struggling in because I felt like his sarcasim would cause much hurt there.
John I welcome you here and I am very compassionate for your anger and your pain. I think there are interesting points to be made in this area; and I do think the "church" falls short in the area of realizing that these are real people we speak of, though that doesn't change that sex betweent he same gender is sin. The church cannot condone homosexual behavior and lifstyle and remain true to God, but we can approach those who are in bondage to this sin differently than we do in most cases.
But I will not allow you to fill the board with posts of all the same topic and I will not allow you to post lies as truth ie (God made people homosexual); I will not allow you to use this board to curse God... this is HIS board, and if you want to curse him you'll have to do that somewhere else. I will not allow you to lash out in cursing, sarcasim and anger and innocent people here who simply want to share with you God's love or who are here because they are also hurting and need to receive God's love.
I hope you can understand my position.
Much love in Christ,
Linda
ps: Incidentally Pornography is one of those doorways that Satan uses. We really do need to grasp that we do not battle with flesh and bllod but with powers and principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places. All forms of perversion of sex and our sexuality are the work of the enemy. Our sexuality is a very sacred thing. I personally believe that Sister WhiteEagle speaks the truth in this regard, demonic opression, if not literal physical bondage as well, but most certainly opression and the implanting of unholy thoughts is something that must be considered in addressing this sort of bondage and it is bondage.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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LaurieFL
Advanced Member
Member # 3794
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posted
Hey Jon- With regard to the moderation that was done to some of your threads, I believe Linda just wanted to consolidate them a bit, as you had quite a few going and all were basically on the same topic. Any member of these boards has access to all of these threads, so it was not done to isolate this issue somehowm merely to try to keep the discussion as coherent as possible instead of separated into a few threads.
I disagree respectfully with White Eagle's take on homosexuality and its originations. I think that it may be true for some people, but I think in other cases it may be the result of something that happened to them that they had no control over that resulted in these feelings of attraction.
I wonder if it is brought about by the presence of pornography in homes sometimes, which I believe opens a door to any host of sexual issues. I don't even think the child has to ever see the porn for the spirit of pornography to cause harm to him or her. Much pornography is firmly rooted in bisexuality (anything goes), even if it depicts male-female interactions, or just pictures of females - it is still tainted by the behind-the-scenes goings-on in the porn business, in my opinion.
Posts: 700 | Registered: Aug 2004
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by johnrexj:
As for homosexual feelings, I do not believe that simply being attracted to a member of the same sex is a sin. As the dichotomy was pointed out above, it can't be involuntary but a sin. All sin is voluntary.[/QB]
[QUOTE}So you have to choose one or the other. [/QUOTE]
Somewhere along the line you and any other person who has attraction to the same sex have sinned. You have sinned in some way that has opened the spiritual doorway to homsexuality. You Have done something voluntary, to open the door, and now you have entertained a spirit that is not of God.
Only you can know your own circumstances and history, and it's important for you to ask God for a pure and clean heart before him, and ask Him what it was that started this, so you can repent. The seed of this whole thing may have started with something different.
You didn't "intend" to welcome this homosexual spirit, but somehow you have.
I'm not trying to cast judgements about your life on you, but try to help you seek God's answer.
Homosexuality is a sin, God's Word is plain.
When Jesus cast out demons from people, like the boy with the deaf and dumb spirit, He didn't ask about the "myths" related to the boy's symptoms of demon possesion.
He didn't try to get people to "understand" or "tolerate" the boy's lifestyle.
Jesus just delivered the boy. Period.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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johnrexj
Community Member
Member # 4116
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bat Elohim:
ok... i took "being attracted to someone of the same sex" to mean that you look lustfully at them. Lust is a sin.
The feelings you can't help. All you can do is pray for God to set you free. But action is a choice.
A lot of people do not understand what lust is, and have a hard time separating it from normal sexual attraction to another person.
Feelings of attraction are quite an important part of the human realtionship, and play a part in any courtship and marriage. After all, whoy would you be married today if you weren't physically and emotionally attracted to your spouse?
Lust is another thing altogether, and involves illicit imaginations and a general lack of restraint in all matters sexual.
It is akin to gluttony. We all feel hungry at some point or another, but we begin to sin when eating becomes our sole reason for existence, so much so, that we dishonor God by overeating. So there.
As for homosexual feelings, I do not believe that simply being attracted to a member of the same sex is a sin. As the dichotomy was pointed out above, it can't be involuntary but a sin. All sin is voluntary.
And then there are the myths:
1. Homosexuality has a wide variety of causes, and isn't soley or even significantly linked to "broken homes" and 'distant fathers". This is the premise of Exodus and the other groups. It's very dangerous to believe this. It's a real problem. People from very happy homes find themselves in this situation.
2. Not all gay men are feminine, want to be women or otherwise.
3.The question still stands, don't you think that if it were possible all gays would turn straight as soon as possible?
Wouldn't they want to?
It's also interesting to note how tis problem has been handed onthis board so far. Everybody calims it's just another sin, like alcoholism and drugs, and yet it's been quarantined all over the board adn sectioned off so that "the children' won't see it. Whereas other sexual sins are freely viewable and scattered.
In one sense, the post are all similar, and scattered all over the board and may benefit from conglomeration in one place, but I cannot escape the feeling that this has caused widespread panic among people who'd rather not have to deal with this at all. After all we're all nasty?
This is not meant as a disrespect to anyone, and I appreciate all the encouragement I have gotten here. I just sense that everyone has kind of been a bit ruffled by it all.
So you have to choose one or the other.
Posts: 16 | Registered: Nov 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
Redkermit: I was one of the ones who answered that question like that. The reason I did is because I believe that in the day to day of living the enmy sends our way through demonic activity many thoughts or feelings that are not ours. If we have on the WHOLE armour of God we can resist the devil and he will flee. But if we do not resist the devil then we take those thoughts into our mind then they become for us sin. Sin does not have to be acted upon in the flesh to be sin; Jesus taught that just to think upon a woman with lust was as the sin of adultery.
This is why the scripture tell us we have as Christians an armour; this is why we are told not to be conformed to this world but to be transformed by the renewing of our mind; this is why we are to guard our heart (soul/inner man) with all diligence because out of it flow the issues of life. There is a battle being waged in the heavenlies and it is being fought on the battlefield of each of our minds; we have to have HIS word in us, written in our hearts that we can discern those things which are ours and those things which the enemy seeks to make ours. THe enemy roams the earth like a ravenous lion seeking WHOM he can destroy. He can destroy those who are not protected; he can destroy those whom he can bind. He does this by planting first in our minds and in our hearts thoughts that are not ours, but we loose the battle when we open the door and let him bring them inside and then we take ownership of them.
So this is why I believe that the feelings of attraction to the opposite sex are not choice. I do not know anyone who has ever said I think I would like to be attracted to the same gender as myself. But many choose to accept those thoughts from the enemy and then they become sin. THen when they are acted upon they become greater sin. or more accurately numerous sins.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
I beleive it is a sin to engage in relations with memebers of the same sex, but to be attracted to them and not to act upon it, I do not beleive, is a sin. You can not hlep the way you feel or think. But you can help your actions to paly out those feelings.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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redkermit
Advanced Member
Member # 4059
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posted
At the time I voted, the poll results are very interesing:
Do you think that homosexuals choose to be attracted to members of the same sex?
Yes they do. 38% (3)
No, they do not. 50% (4)
I do not know. 12% (1)
Is it a sin to simply be sexually attracted to a member of the same sex?
Yes it is. 75% (6)
No, it is not. 25% (2)
I am unsure. 0% (0)
So, the majority think homosexuals do not choose to be attracted to the same sex, but also say it is a sin to simply be sexually attracted to a member of the same sex. How is this possible?
Unfortunately, I don't have any words of wisdom besides the fact that God is in control, and you need to put your trust in Him. I think just about everyone has struggled with this at some time in their lives. I have never had any actual homosexual experiences, but there have been times where I've questioned myself.
I think homosexuality is a factor of many things, some we know, and probably some we don't know. Is it a conscious choice? Probably not in most cases. But, ultimately, if you are a Christian, you should be making the conscious choice to overcome. Of course it's not simple or easy, but what is? That doesn't mean we should just give up.
Have you ever looked into Exodus International?
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I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)
1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org
Posts: 604 | From: Michigan | Registered: Nov 2004
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Favor Minded
unregistered
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posted
As with other issues like this, the rhetoric has grown more political and polarizing.
One side is cast as “homophobic” and the other as God-haters. One can find themselves caught between condoning homosexuality as morally right or condemning those with homosexual feelings altogether.
In the heat of such polarization between condoning and condemning, what is often lost is compassion. What’s lost are real people - confused and trying to sort out their souls.
What’s needed is a strength of conviction with a spirit of compassion. We can’t forget that homosexuality isn’t just an “issue,” it’s about people.
Some of those people I know -
Joe - never had a lot in the way of parental involvement. He tried a lot of things in life to try to find out who he was - including experimenting with homosexual encounters which left him confused about his own nature well into adulthood.
Leona - was made to be her father’s wife - never allowed to just have a mom, she had to be one. Later she would spend years in a lesbian relationship looking for love.
Henry - So demeaned by his father that he was always like a child longing for love - from men and from Jesus whom he loved - until he died of AIDS.
Jesse - told this story; a story of never fitting in as a guy - of always feeling intimidated in his masculinity and deciding to change his gender to find a better fit in life.
All of these stories reflect a longing for love. Such longings become sexualized as adult longings for love often do; leaving one with desires that may be natural in terms of being genuine feelings, but not in terms of fit – that is, not fitting in regards to the complimentary nature of male and female.
What are we to make of these natural desires that don’t reflect the natural order of male and female?
In Genesis, chapters one and two, we are given a summation of the original creation. Even in it’s poetic literary form, it declares fundamental truths about God’s design and intentions.
“So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth."
Then the Lord God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper as his partner." Then the man said, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; this one shall be called Woman, for out of Man this one was taken." Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and clings to his wife, and they become one flesh.” -Genesis 1:27-28; 2:18, 23-24
Here we find the completion of what God declares is “good,” literally “complete,” that is, everything that God intended. There are several basic truths which are revealed as part of this good and completed order -
1 - Human beings were created to reveal the image of God
2 - Essential to that image is our uniqueness as male and female
3 - Our ability to create (reproduce) life is a part of this created order.
4 - Becoming “one flesh” as husband and wife in the covenant of marriage is the context given for sexual intimacy.
Regardless of the causes, many consider homosexuality to be their nature and one can find it difficult to invalidate what someone else truly feels.
If someone says, “This is just the way I am,” what can anyone else say? Should they deny their nature? Should they deny their feelings and no longer be an authentic person?
To be authentic people however, is to be free to acknowledge such feelings. It does not require that I act on them.
Otherwise we should legitimate and encourage every feeling of greed, hunger, anger and sexual attraction to be lived out. When we look into a group like your church fellowship, yuo'll see an entire group of people who recognize their “nature” involves many broken elements and destructive tendencies.
Numbers of single adults who have desires to go enjoy sexual encounters that they choose everyday to refrain from as they counsel their soul in what is ultimately good and wise. Numbers of married lives that have desires for sexual pleasure outside their marriages but choose not to. People who can feel rage at times yet choose not to act on their desires to hurt others.
Authenticity involves acknowledging feelings, not acting upon them.
When Jesus protects the woman caught in adultery from being stoned, his final words to her weren’t “go and do what you feel like doing.”
Rather He said, “Go and sin no more.” He silenced the shame that likely drove her life, and then he called her out into a life where her longings for love could truly be met.
What then is our response to homosexuality? We may do well to hear the Apostle Paul’s challenging words to Jewish believers who looked down upon Gentiles for their unclean life -
“You may be saying, "What terrible people you have been talking about!" But you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you do these very same things. And we know that God, in his justice,
will punish anyone who does such things.
Well then, if you teach others, why don’t you teach yourself? You tell others not to steal, but do you steal? You say it is wrong to commit adultery, but do you do it? You condemn idolatry, but do you steal from pagan temples? You are so proud of knowing the law, but you dishonor God by breaking it. No wonder the Scriptures say, "The world blasphemes the name of God because of you.” - Romans 2:1-2, 21-24
In responding to homosexuality it’s helpful to remember that men speak as a part of that group responsible for the vast majority of sexual wrongdoing in the world today – male heterosexuals.
On the surface of things it may appear as if there is a great divide between heterosexuals and homosexuals (or more accurately, those with heterosexually oriented attractions and those with homosexually oriented attractions.)
There are certainly many characteristics that can distinguish our lives outwardly. However, if we look within our souls, all of us will find some degree of confusion and misguided love involved in our sexuality.
Our sense of masculinity and femininity is fallen and often fragile. We have all tried to find security in our sexuality in ways that were influenced by family, friends, and popular culture.
Apart from the light of God’s love we have experienced various degrees of darkness and brokenness in our sexuality. This may manifest itself in the subtleness of resentments and oppression between genders, overcompensation of cultural expectations like “macho” man or passive woman - inhibitions, or simply sexual activity that we know will never satisfy.
Or it may manifest itself in more striking ways such as sexual addictions or abuse.
For those with homosexual tendencies there have often been unique experiences of alienation or attachment with parental figures. As Andy Comiskey describes, “This leaves him or her with tremendous needs for affirmation and affection.
In most instances, the attraction for the same sex begins before the age of ten; it is emotional, non-sexual, and involuntary.
With sexual maturity, these needs become eroticized; sexual intimacy becomes a primary means for feeling loved and affirmed. Hence, sexual activity offers some sense of being truly accepted. What seems to be love is received, the person extending this love is idolized, and as the pain becomes covered over with pleasure, a momentary sense of self-esteem emerges, a temporary relief from the confusion of identity.”
In any case, those with heterosexual feelings and those with homosexual feelings are able to come to Christ together to be restored in God’s love.
If we are able to share in a common confession of flawed and fragile sexuality - of false “idols” we have put our hope in and bowed to - we are able to come together as a common community to find healing and wholeness as we allow the light of God’s love to enter our souls.
As we come to Christ by grace, we are restored as “children of God” - John 1:12
Our identities, including that of being created male and female, are brought under the light of God whose image we bear. It shouldn’t surprise us that Jesus touched the lives of many men and women as he enlightened their true nature. He challenged the competitiveness and lack of appreciation for children among his male disciples.
To the woman at the well of Jericho he spoke into her false dependency on men to find meaning.
Similarly to his friend Martha he spoke of her serving. To each he offered an alternative meaning to their lives in his presence.
We too can find our common confirmation as men and women in Christ. And as his living body, through whom he ministers, we can be a part of that process as we relate to one another in the light of God rather than simply that of common culture.
Where lives were raised in the confusion of parental absence, animosity of gender, or even abuse, we can be a part of bestowing the true blessing of being male and female.
As Comiskey says, “Jesus Christ is the alternative. He addresses the problem - man limited to self - and provides the way through which we can find fulfillment in God and His people.
By releasing us from the dictates of the past, Jesus frees us to live as new creatures. The Holy Spirit carries on that process of change in our lives.
His grace is sufficient, for His strength is made perfect in weakness. He provides the mooring point for a new identity, the center out of which a true sense of well-being can be enjoyed. As we draw close to Him, we are enabled to reflect His image in our humanity more and more fully.
The goal of our growth is the freedom to love correctly, to relate intimately but non-erotically to the same-sex, and to be able to address the opposite sex as a needed counterpart without fear or disinterest.
Such love is Christ’s intent for us. We affirm His capacity to carry it out in our lives, and in the lives of those who seek to be free from homosexuality.”
I believe in real hope for those who find themselves with same-sex attractions and desire to discover change. I have first hand experience with some - One person particularly who has been married for 6 years, and has two beautiful children. Today he speaks openly about his past relationships, and how he was delivered from his life long homosexual desires.
Many consider the very notion of such change to be misguided because it offends the position that we are to accept our desires as “natural.” Such contention is merely based on the misguided assumptions.
I not only believe in such change, as I said, I have seen it. I know personally people who have chosen the process of allowing the Spirit of God to enlighten their masculinity or femininity.
Like those trying to change other areas of desire in their lives - alcoholism, etc. - such a process is challenging and ongoing. However, those who choose to walk in the light of God can find real peace and pleasure.
There is real hope.
None of us are completely whole in our inclinations and as a result we’ll face various temptations. We must stand up against the confusion between disposition and determination.
Our modern culture says the answer to teenage sexual drives is condoms and the answer to homosexual feelings is to pursue the sexualizing of same sex relationships.
The underlying assumption is that we’re merely animals whose lives are wholly determined by our instincts and impulses. But we’re human beings and our dignity involves our ability to choose how we respond to our various impulses.
“And remember, no one who wants to do wrong should ever say, "God is tempting me." God is never tempted to do wrong, and he never tempts anyone else either. Temptation comes from the lure of our own evil desires. These evil desires lead to evil actions, and evil actions lead to death.” - James 1:13-15
In the face of the cultural confusion that surrounds homosexuality, we are called to follow Jesus in sharing the Father’s heart of true love and compassion. If we are to really love those who experience sexual attraction towards their own gender, we need to search our own hearts.
Do such feelings in others cause me to feel threatened, awkward, or afraid of my own sexuality?
Do I harbor feelings of resentment towards them?
Do I need to rise above tendencies to want to placate the issue in order to avoid being personally misunderstood or rejected?
Do I need to rise above desires to be politically correct and popular so that my love will grounded in the truth of God’s heart for sexual wholeness?
Only when truth and grace are nurtured in my heart together can I love as Christ does.
I have felt the challenge of Christ’s compassion for those seeking to find true meaning and love out of their homosexual attractions and have been reminded of the tragic immaturity of my past responses.
It's unlikely the coming years will be easy in regards to the issue of homosexuality. We all know Christ is not afraid of those who find themselves drawn to same sex intimacy.
He will speak grace and truth into the wounds beneath every soul. Many will turn away from the very idea that such wounds and misguided longings are involved in their same sex attraction.
It may be hard for them to enter the Kingdom of God’s grace that Christ offers. But as those who know such grace to wounded souls, we must let the light of his grace and truth shine.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
I have moved these posts from another thread to John's poll here in an effort to keep this discussion focused in one area. If you have further things you would like to share with John on this matter please use this thread. THanks...Linda
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johnrexj
Community Member
Member # 4116 posted December 02, 2004 10:42 PM
This was written in another forum:
The Homosexual whether practicing or not, is in sin. If one says, I am homosexual but not practicing, because it is in his [or her] heart, in his thoughts, he sins. IT MUST NOT be in his thoughts or in his heart.
How would you feel if I told you to have no sexual feelings whatsoever?
How reasonable is that?
How could it be a sin to be merely attracted to members of the same sex?
Just like that. Have no feelings? Try that for yourself. See how it feels.
Pray to God and ask him to help you know how it feels. Deny your husbands/wives sex for one week. Don't even entertain thoughts of attraction to them.
Or anyone else pretty/handsome if you are not married. You'll see how it feels.
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LaurieFL
Advanced Member
Member # 3794 posted December 02, 2004 11:04 PM
I am sorry you are going through this. I don't know exactly what to say to you. I have had many friends in my life who were homosexual, and most of them were what I would call "good people." I have struggled to even understand why it is condemned in the Bible.
I can imagine how difficult it is to overcome. As with any lust, you will be faced with it daily. But, as you pointed out, unlike heterosexual lust, you have no way to ever have that "consummated" in a sanctified way if you wish to pursue Godliness. I believe God can free us from addictions and problems of the mind, but it takes time and is never easy.
I beg of you to seek out someone who is Christian who has gone through what you are going through who ahs found answers.
I am going to be praying for you, and also for understanding for myself.
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BORN AGAIN
Advanced Member
Member # 5 osted December 02, 2004 11:19 PM
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LaurieFL, what makes you think that johnrexj is talking about himself?
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LaurieFL
Advanced Member
Member # 3794 posted December 02, 2004 11:22 PM
He has posts all over the board tonight, one specifically stating that God was not there for him when he started having homosexual feelings.
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BORN AGAIN
Advanced Member
Member # 5 posted December 02, 2004 11:24 PM
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Ok, thank you.
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Israel
Advanced Member
Member # 3254 posted December 03, 2004 02:56 AM
Just remember, God Loves the sinner, not the sin!
God made us to have affection for one another, but He did not make us to have sexual desire in our hearts for the same sex. If anyone thinks that being gay is right, then they are calling God a liar, because God clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination, God hate's it, as with all sin, until we put ALL the sin under the blood we can't even come to God. Being gay is only one of ALL sins that God hates, just like using His name in vain, He hates it, or stealing He hates it, let's call sin what it is...a murderer...because it comes and steals what we have with God, then when sin is conceived, then comes death. God takes away all sin, no matter how ugly, vile, loathesome it is, Thank God that we have an Advocate, with His son Jesus who takes away All sin...
I am leaving here, it has been great talking to you all, but my time is up, I have to go...remember to keep praying for Israel and the peace of Jerusalem...Remember He will Bless those who Bless You(Israel) and He will curse those who curse you(Israel)
Israel
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Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; they shall prosper that love thee.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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johnrexj
Community Member
Member # 4116
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posted
Is same-sex attraction a conscious choice? What do you think. If so, tell us: What were these people thinking when they decided to become homosexuals, given all the pain and suffering they'd have to go through?
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