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Author
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Topic: eradication of the old nature
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
I'm putting you on notice Mr.wild man I will not rest from prayer and diligence as a child of Yahweh and give one moment peace to the perverted teaching of the Bearen Bible Society.
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
posted October 22, 2009 07:48
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WildB, I agree 100% with your post by Cornelius R. Stam....
http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006895#000005
Now thats some funny stuff there Big C. It wasn't till recently when Dale and Berry could not Biblically address the issues that they started spamming the board with this convenient label of theirs, " a different gospel"!
It is clear to all what all this spamming is for.
.........Twist and bait!
Its just a bully tactic, that they have come to find out, don't work on the real people of God.
.......LOL
Bring it on boys, bring it on.
Dale was so angered that he broke the rules to spam the post in question so I deleted it and reposted it for him to vent on without breaking the rules.
http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=007612
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Now thats some funny stuff there Big C. It wasn't till recently when Dale and Berry could not Biblically address the issues that they started spamming the board with this convenient label of theirs, " a different gospel"!
I know. You've been posting Stam articles for years, and you have received a lot a compliments on them. It has only been since barrykind and becauseHElives ganged-up against you that Stam came into question. And I honestly think that it's just a way to get at you.
It really is clear to all what is happening here.
And these two said there is no such thing as a
........CARNAL CHRISTIAN
Very sad, very sad indeed.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
thank you for the article...to me it is still a tap dance around the heart of the error I see...
I will stop all argument if you will agree there is only one Gospel and the 11 Apostles and Paul all preached the same Gospel...they may have had differences but it wasn't about how one is Born Again....
the 1st person to explain the New Birth was Jesus himself....
The First Step to True Spirituality -
THE NEED OF A NEW NATURE
By Cornelius R. Stam
What man needs first of all, to become truly spiritual, then, is a new nature, begotten of the Spirit of God. Our Lord put it very plainly when He said to Nicodemus:
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6).
In this passage again the term flesh cannot refer merely to the physical body, for at birth a spirit and a soul, as well as a body, are brought forth. Thus the flesh here refers to the fallen Adamic nature.
Similarly, the spirit which is born of the Spirit, here, cannot be man's own spirit, for we have already seen that the whole natural man, body, soul and spirit, is "born of the flesh," and the very point of this passage in John 3 is that therefore men need to be born, or begotten, again—this time "of the Spirit," i.e., the Spirit of God (Vers. 6-8).
So much is involved, however, in the impartation of spiritual life to the believer—especially as related to the present dispensation—that God uses three metaphors to describe it: birth, resurrection and creation. No one of these could adequately set it forth; all three are necessary.
Let us begin, then, with the elementary figure of the new birth.
THE NEW BIRTH
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again [anew] he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).
It is not surprising that the unsaved do not see their need of the new birth apart from the convicting power of the Holy Spirit. Even among those who have themselves been born anew, however, there are those who hold that the figure of the new birth applies only to Israel, not to those who live under the present dispensation. They base this conclusion on the premise that our Lord spoke to a Jew about the Jews regarding the new birth, and that Paul does not mention the subject in his epistles. This premise is wrong, however, and so are the conclusions drawn from it.
First, it should be noted that our Lord spoke to Nicodemus in broad terms about seeing and entering into the "kingdom of God." He did not use the narrower phrase "kingdom of heaven," which has to do with the establishment of the kingdom of God on earth (See Dan. 2:44; Matt. 5:3-5; 6:10). This is because He was referring to something which involved more than entrance into the millennial kingdom.
That believers today enter into the kingdom of God as surely as do believers in any other age is made abundantly clear in the Pauline epistles (See Rom. 14:17; I Cor. 4:20; 6:9,10; 15:50; Gal. 5:21; Eph. 5:5; Col. 4:11; I Thes. 2:12; II Thes. 1:5).
It should further be noted that our Lord also spoke in broad terms when He said that it was necessary for "a man" to be born anew to enter into the kingdom of God.
We have no right to assume that our Lord meant that it was necessary only for a Jew to be born anew to enter into the kingdom of heaven, when He said it was necessary for a man to be born anew to enter into the kingdom of God.
Does a reader object that our Lord must have had only Jews in mind since He was at that time ministering only to Jews and was here addressing a Jew? Then we must insist that our Lord's discussion with this prominent Jew is here recorded especially to show that all men in every age need to be born anew to enter into the kingdom of God.
An unfortunate chapter division has obscured this important fact, for the story of Nicodemus in John 3 is but a demonstration of an important assertion made at the close of Chapter 2. We link the two together here to show the connection.
"Now when [Jesus] was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in His name, when they saw the miracles which He did.
"But Jesus did not commit Himself unto them; because He knew all men,
"And needed not that any should testify of man; for He knew what was in man.
"There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
"The same came to Jesus by night..." (John 2:23-3:2).
To demonstrate the universal need of regeneration, God chooses this outstanding character: a ruler of the Jews, highly intellectual, rigidly moral, profoundly religious and utterly sincere in his inquiry concerning Christ.
It must have been an impressive sight: a venerable Pharisee coming to a young man (as it appeared) of thirty, respectfully addressing Him: "Rabbi," and acknowledging Him at the outset as "a teacher come from God."
Yet this was one of those to whom the Lord would not commit Himself; one of those who had "believed" on Him because of His miracles. As Nicodemus himself put it: "We know that Thou art a teacher come from God; for no man can do these miracles that Thou doest, except God be with him" (John 3:2).
But this does not, nor did it ever, save a man. Thus, sweeping the ground from under Nicodemus' feet, the Lord replies that what he needs—what any man needs—is a new life. Regardless of all his intellect, morality and religion, he must be born again—of God.
But what about the argument that the phrase "born anew" is not found in the Pauline epistles?
The answer is, first, that arguments from silence are often treacherous and, standing alone, prove nothing. Even if the Pauline epistles did not refer to the new birth, the new birth would still be a basic necessity for entrance into the kingdom of God according to the words of our Lord. But, secondly, while the exact phrase "born anew" does not occur in the Pauline epistles, the doctrine of the new birth is taught there as clearly as in any other part of the Bible.
First, it is taught by clear implication. Referring to believers, the apostle uses the words nepios: a babe, or small child, and huios: a fullgrown son. Moreover, he looks for spiritual growth in believers.
Positionally, to be sure, all believers are recognized as fullgrown sons of God from the moment they are saved, with all the rights and privileges of sonship (See Gal. 4:1-7). But in these studies we are not dealing basically with position; we are dealing with experience—the impartation of spiritual life to the sinner, and the enjoyment of it by the saint.
The righteous standing before God, which Christ purchased for all men, is of no avail to the sinner until it is accepted by faith. In the same way, the position of sonship which is ours in Christ, and the blessings that go with it, are appropriated and enjoyed only by faith. Hence the apostle rebuked the Corinthians for their carnality, calling them babes who had to be fed with milk because they could not yet digest solid food (I Cor. 3:1,2). The Hebrew believers, too, were reproved because they were still spiritual babes, when, for the length of time they had been saved, they should have been teachers of the Word (Heb. 5:12-14).
Similarly, we are told in Ephesians 4:12-15 that God gave to the Church apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers, "for the perfecting of the saints...
"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine...
"But speaking [holding] the truth in love, may grow up...."
Further, Paul writes in I Corinthians 16:13:
"Watch ye, stand fast in the faith; quit you [conduct yourselves] like MEN [i.e., seasoned men] be strong."
Surely the apostle does not refer, in these passages, to the infancy, growth and maturity of the natural man. He refers to the new life which was, to begin with, begotten of the Spirit.
The words men, sons, babes, used of the spiritual life, clearly imply spiritual birth. The seasoned man had at some time in his experience come to a place of spiritual maturity. Before that he was a babe. And this, in turn, implies that he was born, for there was a specific time when the babe came into being.
In addition to all this there are two passages in Paul's epistles which teach the new birth in a most positive manner. The first is Romans 8:16,17, where the apostle employs the word teknon: born-one.
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children [born-ones] of God:
"And if children [born-ones] then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ...."
Could anything bear clearer testimony to the fact that believers under the dispensation of Grace are born anew? Surely we did not become born-ones of God by natural birth.
The other passage is Titus 3:5, where we read:
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration [Gr., palingenesia] and renewing of the Holy Ghost."
Out of the twenty-four versions of the New Testament which we have at hand, this word palingenesia is rendered regeneration by twenty, new birth by three and renaissance by one. Not one of them departs from the basic idea of new birth.
Finally, we would emphasize the fact that in the nature of the case men born of Adam must be born or begotten again to be saved. A new and different life must be imparted and begun. It is true that the life which the believer receives is Christ's life—eternal life—which has no beginning; that in Christ the believer is immediately considered an adult. But this is a deeper truth which must be considered later. Spiritual life does have a beginning in the experience of every believer, and the need for this is given as much emphasis in the epistles of Paul as it is in the recorded words of Christ on earth.
As our Lord impressed upon Nicodemus the fact that man at his best cannot enter into the kingdom of God, since "that which is born of the flesh is flesh," so Paul, by the Spirit, also insists:
"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption" (I Cor. 15:50).1
Thus, while it is true that our Lord taught the new birth during His earthly ministry to Israel, it does not follow from this that this subject concerns only the nation Israel. What our Lord said concerned mankind, as such, without respect to race or time.
Endnote
1. It is true that the apostle here contends particularly for the necessity of a new body for physical entrance into God's presence, but does not this strengthen the argument that man in his natural state is unfit for the presence of God?
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That is all.....
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Now thats some funny stuff there Big C. It wasn't till recently when Dale and Berry could not Biblically address the issues that they started spamming the board with this convenient label of theirs, " a different gospel"!
I know. You've been posting Stam articles for years, and you have received a lot of compliments on them. It has only been since barrykind and becauseHElives ganged-up against you that Stam came into question. And I honestly think that it's just a way to get at you.
As for carnal Christians, 1 Corinthians 3 is all about Paul dealing with the carnal Christians in the Corinthian church.
John MacArthur has an article about it here:
https://www.gty.org/library/bibleqnas-library/QA0104/carnal-christians
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Carol Swenson
Admin
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
thank you for the article...to me it is still a tap dance around the heart of the error I see...
I will stop all argument if you will agree there is only one Gospel and the 11 Apostles and Paul all preached the same Gospel...they may have had differences but it wasn't about how one is Born Again....
the 1st person to explain the New Birth was Jesus himself....
I agree that there is only one gospel, and in every dispensation the people of God have been saved by grace through faith in Him. But I maintain that God's revelation of Himself continues to grow, and Paul was given a revelation that was not known to anyone before him.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
I'm putting you on notice Mr.wild man I will not rest from prayer and diligence as a child of Yahweh and give one moment peace to the perverted teaching of the Bearen Bible Society.
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
posted October 22, 2009 07:48
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WildB, I agree 100% with your post by Cornelius R. Stam....
http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006895#000005
Now thats some funny stuff there Big C. It wasn't till recently when Dale and Berry could not Biblically address the issues that they started spamming the board with this convenient label of theirs, " a different gospel"!
It is clear to all what all this spamming is for.
.........Twist and bait!
Its just a bully tactic, that they have come to find out, don't work on the real people of God.
.......LOL
Bring it on boys, bring it on.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
thank you for the article...to me it is still a tap dance around the heart of the error I see...
I will stop all argument if you will agree there is only one Gospel and the 11 Apostles and Paul all preached the same Gospel...they may have had differences but it wasn't about how one is Born Again....
the 1st person to explain the New Birth was Jesus himself....
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
If they don't bother to read what we post then they're going to continue to reply from prejudice and ignorance.
It should be obvious that the 12 Apostles (Matthias) did not know Paul's gospel because it was given to Paul in a revelation years after the crucifixion.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
wildb you accuse Barry and I of spam but that's all you do, you never really answer anything , you just keep spamming the same sentences like the above....
quote:
More Twist and bait.
Stop your sillyness.
You may be able to bully those in your house not here. Not any more.
You really should turn in that moderator badge.
It is clear to all your tactics.
Only the guilty dog need bark.
Now back to answering your spamming post for the baseball fans.
Are We Hyper-Dispensationalists?
By David M. Havard
Keywords: hyperdispensationalism, ultradispensationalism, dispensationalism, H. A. Ironside, Charles Baker, Pastor C. R. Stam, E. W. Bullinger, J. C. O'Hair, revelation of the mystery, body of Christ, Paul's gospel, gospel of the grace of God, Apostle Paul, rightly dividing the word of truth
Many years ago, H. A. Ironside1 published a booklet entitled Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth in which he threw Charles Baker and C. R. Stam into the same bucket as E. W. Bullinger. Ever since then, we have been labeled as having the same extreme views as Bullinger. Men who have never looked into what we really teach continue to spread the slander started by Ironside back in the 1930's. Besides, it's much easier to label us as "hyper" and dismiss us than it is to address us based on the Scriptures.
This was recently done again in the July/August 1999 issue of Uplook magazine (published by the Plymouth Brethren). In this their Dispensationalism Issues issue, they presented an excellent overview of dispensationalism. As a matter of fact, we would agree with the majority of what was written. But then, one writer had to add this statement:
"One final word. Like all good things, the study of dispensations can be abused. There are some Christians who carry dispensationalism to such an extreme that they accept only Paul's Prison Epistles as applicable for the church today. As a result, they do not accept baptism or the Lord's Supper, since these are not found in the Prison Epistles. They also teach that Peter's gospel message was not the same as Paul's….These people are sometimes called ultra-dispensationalists or Bullingerites (after a teacher named E. W. Bullinger). Their extreme view of dispensationalism should be rejected."2
This article was then followed by the following excerpt from Ironside's book:3
"What is Bullingerism or Ultra-dispensationalism? This system was first advocated some years ago by Dr. E. W. Bullinger (1837-1913), who was educated at King's College, London, and was a clergyman in the Church of England. These views have been widely spread through the notes of the Companion Bible which he edited. Dr. Bullinger's positions are glaringly opposed to what is generally accepted as orthodox teaching. This movement has been carried forth in our day by ardent proponents such as Cornelius Stam, J. C. O'Hair and Charles Baker. [emphasis mine]
"There are a number of outstanding tenets of Ultra-dispensationalism. First, it is insisted that the four Gospels are entirely Jewish and have no real message for the Church.Secondly, it is maintained that in the book of Acts we do not have the Church, the Body of Christ, but that the word ekklesia (church), as it is used in that book refers to a different Church altogether than that of Paul's Prison Epistles. Thirdly, it is contended that Paul did not receive his special revelation of the mystery of the Body until his imprisonment in Rome, and that his Prison Epistles alone reveal this truth and are, strictly speaking, the only portion of the Holy Scriptures given to the members of His Body. All of the other epistles of Paul are relegated to an earlier dispensation and were for the instruction of the so-called Jewish Church of that time. Fourthly, the Christian ordinances, having been given before Paul, are supposed to have no real connection with the present economy, and therefore are relegated to the past, and may again have a place in the future Great Tribulation.
"Beside these points, there are many other unscriptural things which are advocated by Bullingerism. Many boldly advocate the sleep of the soul between death and resurrection, the annihilation of the wicked, the universal salvation of all men and demons, the denial of the eternal Sonship of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the denial of the personality of the Holy Spirit. All these evil doctrines find congenial soil in Bullingerism or Ultra-dispensationalism."
"But wait!" You're thinking, "I don't believe those things!" Well, neither do I, but these are their tactics. As far as most Acts 2 folks are concerned, we agree with Bullinger's far out views regarding soul sleep, annihilation of the wicked, universalism, and that the Body of Christ did not start until Acts 28. You either believe in their interpretation of dispensationalism or you are an extremist like Bullinger. They do not recognize any middle ground. This is what we are up against.
In the above quote, Ironside lists some the "outstanding tenets" of what he calls "ultra-dispensationalism." While this is a convenient label, it does not Biblically address the issues. Let us examine what Ironside said (and everyone else seems to repeat) and see if we agree or not.
"First, it is insisted that the four Gospels are entirely Jewish and have no real message for the Church": We do not believe that the four gospels have no real message for the church—Paul says that ALL Scripture is profitable. However, we do believe (because we hold to a literal historical interpretation of the Bible) that Christ's earthly ministry was in keeping with Israel's prophetic kingdom program (Matt. 10:5-6; 15:24). We find application in the gospels to be sure, but to say that the basic message of the gospels is directed to the Body of Christ is not being consistent or literal. As Scofield says in his reference Bible, "The Epistles of the Apostle Paul have a very distinctive character....Through Paul alone we know that the church is not an organization, but an organism, the Body of Christ; instinct with His life, and heavenly in calling, promise, and destiny. Through him alone we know the nature, purpose, and form of organization of local churches, and the right conduct of such gatherings. Through him alone do we know that `we shall not all sleep,' that `the dead in Christ shall rise first,' and that living saints shall be `changed' and caught up to meet the Lord in the air at His return. But to Paul was also committed the unfolding of the doctrines of grace…Paul, converted by the personal ministry of the Lord in glory, is distinctively the witness to a glorified Christ, Head over all things to the church which is His Body, as the Eleven were to Christ in the flesh." And if, according to traditional dispensationalism, the Body of Christ started at Pentecost, how can it be found retroactively in the gospels? The message that Peter preached at Pentecost was an offer of the millennial kingdom to Israel (Acts 2:22) conditional upon their repentance and recognition of Jesus as their Messiah—something that we now know will not happen until after the tribulation.
"Secondly, it is maintained that in the book of Acts we do not have the Church, the Body of Christ, but that the word ekklesia (church), as it is used in that book, refers to a different Church altogether than that of Paul's Prison Epistles": You'd think they would at least understand this! Regarding the assembly in the book of Acts, we have both "churches" mentioned, depending on the context. If you see the Body of Christ in the gospels, you are closer to a covenant position than a dispensational one. If the Body is found in the gospels, then to be consistent, it also has to be found in the Old Testament prophetic program as well. It was Bullinger (with whom we do not agree) who said that the Body of Christ did not start until the close of the book of Acts and that only Paul's prison epistles are for us today.
"Thirdly, it is contended that Paul did not receive his special revelation of the mystery of the Body until his imprisonment in Rome, and that his Prison Epistles alone reveal this truth and are, strictly speaking, the only portion of the Holy Scriptures given to the members of His Body": We do not agree with Bullinger on this point either. We do say that Paul received a special revelation (Gal. 1:11-12), but we do not agree that only his prison epistles are applicable to us today. Paul began to receive his special revelation of the mystery upon his conversion in Acts 9.
"Fourthly, the Christian ordinances, having been given before Paul, are supposed to have no real connection with the present economy, and therefore are relegated to the past, and may again have a place in the future Great Tribulation": Regarding the "ordinances" of the church, there is no place in Scripture where water baptism and the Lord's supper are linked. The Lord's Supper is a memorial that we are instructed in I Corinthians 11 to keep "until He come." However, we do feel that water baptism is a Jewish ordinance and is something that was phased out during the transition period. It is also rarely pointed out that we are not unique in understanding that water baptism is not for today. Other groups throughout church history, such as the Quakers, have also come to this same conclusion.
"Many boldly advocate the sleep of the soul between death and resurrection, the annihilation of the wicked, the universal salvation of all men and demons, the denial of the eternal Sonship of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the denial of the personality of the Holy Spirit. All these evil doctrines find congenial soil in Bullingerism or Ultra-dispensationalism": This is the worst sort of guilt by association, but I'm sure you see the implication. If you believe in a mid-Acts position, then, according to them, you also believe in these extreme and unscriptural viewpoints as well. By associating us with these cult-like beliefs we can be discredited without ever having to answer our Biblical arguments.
This is what we are up against. These are the same battles, misunderstandings, and deliberate misrepresentations that Pastor Stam has had to fight against for over 60 years—and we must continue to do so today if the gospel of the grace of God is going to continue to go forward.
Yet rather than discourage us, these things should motivate us. We know what we have found. We know how confused we used to be. We can honestly say that this is a more consistent and literal approach to Scripture. We no longer have to explain away what the Bible clearly says in verses such as Acts 2:38. We know that by reading the Body of Christ back into the gospels, we rob them of their distinctive kingdom character. By not understanding the difference we either have to make the clear statements in the gospels (such as a distinction between Jew and Gentile and water baptism) conform to Paul's epistles (where he says there is no difference between Jew and Greek, and that he is the apostle to the Gentiles) by explaining them away or we have to read the gospels into Paul's epistles and make them conform to the message in the gospels (which is what John MacArthur has done with "Lordship Salvation").
We are not the wild-eyed radicals that the theological media tries to portray us as. We are in agreement with the overwhelming majority of traditional dispensationalism. Our two primary points of disagreement are that we see the Body of Christ starting with the conversion and call of the Apostle Paul and that water baptism is not a requirement for this dispensation.
Let us stand firm in proclaiming the unique message revealed to and through the Apostle Paul. It is like telling others about our faith in Christ. We know what it has done for us. We know that it has cleared away our confusion. Let us graciously and boldly share with others what this message has done for us.
Endnotes
1. If you can find someone who has a copy of The Controversy (it's now out of print), you can read more about Ironside's history as related to the Grace Movement.
2. William MacDonald, "Distinguishing things that differ," Up-look, July/August 1999, pp. 11-12.
3. Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth, H. A. Ironside, Loizeaux Brothers, New York, 1938.
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
wildb you accuse Barry and I of spam but that's all you do, you never really answer anything , you just keep spamming the same sentences like the above....
quote:
More Twist and bait.
Stop your sillyness.
You may be able to bully those in your house not here. Not any more.
You really should turn in that moderator badge.
It is clear to all your tactics.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
how sad Carol that you believe the 2 Gospel message taught by the subtle perversion of the Bearen Bible Society.
More Twist and bait.
Stop your sillyness.
You may be able to bully those in your house not here. Not any more.
You really should turn in that moderator badge.
It is clear to all your tactics.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
quote:
how sad Carol that you believe the 2 Gospel message taught by the subtle perversion of the Bearen Bible Society
I don't. What makes you say that? The gospel of Jesus Christ is the only gospel.
Do you REALLY believe that the Berean Bible Society is the only site that teaches grace and dispensationalism?
They aren't.
1. The Apostle Paul and the Apostle Peter each preached the gospel, the good news. But upon close examination of just what they were saying, it is apparent that their messages were different from one another. Yet they did not contradict one another, because they spoke their respective gospels to two separate audiences. In this article, we will examine these two unique messages and the two audiences to which they were given.
2. Our gospel is that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, gave His life as the perfect sacrifice to pay for our sins, was crucified, and rose from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This is what apostle Paul preached. There is only one gospel that we are to proclaim today. However, there have been other valid gospels in the past (Galatians 3:8, Matthew 9:35, and 10:5-7) and there will be others in the future (Matthew 24:14 and Revelation 14:6-7) after the rapture of the church.
3. Even though they had been plainly told by Jesus Christ beforehand, the twelve apostles did not know that Jesus Christ was going to die or rise from the dead (Matthew 16:21-22, Luke 18:33-34, and John 20:9). It was hidden from them by God. Of course, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ are essential parts of Paul's gospel. Also recall that the disciples preached a gospel during Jesus Christ's earthly ministry. But it definitely was not Paul's gospel, because they did not know Paul's gospel.
4. Before our Lord Jesus Christ revealed it to Paul, the other apostles did not know that Jesus Christ's crucifixion was the sacrifice for our sins. In the book of Acts, Peter never mentions sacrifice, or propitiation, or the blood of Jesus Christ. He never associates Christ's death with remission of sins. Our gospel by which we are saved was a mystery revealed by our Lord Jesus Christ to Paul. It was not known by any man, not even the twelve apostles or Satan himself (1 Corinthians 2:7-8).
5. Paul was the apostle of the Gentiles (Acts 9:15 and Romans 11:13). Jesus Christ and the apostles prior to Paul preached only to the people of Israel, with just a few exceptions (Matthew 10:5-6, Matthew 15:24, John 12:20-24, Acts 2:5, 2:36, 3:12, and 11:19).
6. After Jesus Christ ascended into heaven, Peter preached that the people of Israel should believe that Jesus Christ was who He said He was, the Messiah. They should repent, and be baptized with water (Acts 2:38). If they all did this, then Jesus Christ would return and bring in the kingdom just as the Old Testament prophets had foretold (Acts 3:19-21).
7. The twelve apostles were under the law of Moses. But Paul taught the Gentiles "... ye are not under the law, but under grace" (Romans 6:14).
8. From Abraham, through the Old Testament, during Christ's earthly ministry, and the early chapters of Acts, there were exceptions, but for the most part, God dealt only with the nation of Israel. Israel alone is the focus of the early chapters of the book of Acts. The ministry to the Gentiles did not even begin until more than 12 years after Christ's earthly ministry, well after the conversion of Saul.
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If anyone has a sincere desire to understand, then here is a good article that explains it.
http://www.matthewmcgee.org/2gospels.html
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becauseHElives
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posted
how sad Carol that you believe the 2 Gospel message taught by the subtle perversion of the Bearen Bible Society.
Paul in very clear words says he preached the same Gospel the other Apostles preached....
1 Corinthians 15
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
I'm putting you on notice Mr.wild man I will not rest from prayer and diligence as a child of Yahweh and give one moment peace to the perverted teaching of the Bearen Bible Society.
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
posted October 22, 2009 07:48
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WildB, I agree 100% with your post by Cornelius R. Stam....
http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006895#000005
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WildB
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posted
10:4 I realize thats how things were made whole again.
Hey I was looking up the definition of Cold Short-Iron.
Need this definition 1st
Phosphorus
From Wikipedia,
This article is about the chemical element. For other uses, see Phosphorus (disambiguation).
Phosphorus ( /ˈfɒsfərəs/ FOS-fər-əs) is the chemical element that has the symbol P and atomic number 15. A multivalent nonmetal of the nitrogen group, phosphorus as a mineral is almost always present in its maximally oxidized state, as inorganic phosphate rocks. Elemental phosphorus exists in two major forms – white phosphorus and red phosphorus, but due to its high reactivity, phosphorus is never found as a free element on Earth.
The first form of elemental phosphorus to be produced (white phosphorus, in 1669) emits a faint glow upon exposure to oxygen – hence its name given from Greek mythology, Φωσφόρος meaning "light-bearer" (Latin Lucifer), referring to the "Morning Star", the planet Venus. Although the term "phosphorescence", meaning glow after illumination, derives from this property of phosphorus, the glow of phosphorus originates from oxidation of the white (but not red) phosphorus and should be called chemiluminescence.
Phosphorus compounds are used in explosives, nerve agents, friction matches, fireworks, pesticides, toothpastes, and detergents.
Phosphorus is a component of DNA, RNA, ATP, and also the phospholipids that form all cell membranes. It is thus an essential element for all living cells, and organisms tend to accumulate and concentrate it. For example, elemental phosphorus was historically first isolated from the sedement in human urine, and bone ash was an important early phosphate source. Low phosphate levels are an important limit to growth in some aquatic systems. Today, the most important commercial use of phosphorus-based chemicals is the production of fertilizers, to replace the phosphorus that plants remove from the soil.
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Phosphorus (P) has four major effects on iron: increased hardness and strength, lower solidus temperature, increased fluidity, and cold shortness. Depending on the use intended for the iron, these effects are either good or bad. Bog ore often has a high Phosphorus content (Gordon 1996, p. 57).
The strength and hardness of iron increases with the concentration of phosphorus. 0.05% phosphorus in wrought iron makes it as hard as medium carbon steel. High phosphorus iron can also be hardened by cold hammering. The hardening effect is true for any concentration of phosphorus. The more phosphorus, the harder the iron becomes and the more it can be hardened by hammering. Modern steel makers can increase hardness by as much as 30%, without sacrificing shock resistance by maintaining phosphorus levels between 0.07 and 0.12%. It also increases the depth of hardening due to quenching, but at the same time also decreases the solubility of carbon in iron at high temperatures. This would decrease its usefulness in making blister steel (cementation), where the speed and amount of carbon absorption is the overriding consideration.
The addition of phosphorus has a down side. At concentrations higher than 0.2% iron becomes increasingly cold short, or brittle at low temperatures. Cold short is especially important for bar iron. Although, bar iron is usually worked hot, its uses often require it to be tough, bendable, and resistant to shock at room temperature. A nail that shattered when hit with a hammer or a carriage wheel that broke when it hit a rock would not sell well. High enough concentrations of phosphorus render any iron unusable (Rostoker & Bronson 1990, p. 22). The effects of cold shortness are magnified by temperature. Thus, a piece of iron that is perfectly serviceable in summer, might become extremely brittle in winter. There is some evidence that during the Middle Ages the very wealthy may have had a high phosphorus sword for summer and a low phosphorus sword for winter (Rostoker & Bronson 1990, p. 22).
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That is all.....
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Carol Swenson
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posted
I remember that too. David gave Kiefer his own board so nobody could bother him again.
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
becauseHElives is a moderator of Praise Reports & Testimonies. He was appointed by David. I see no reason why we should question that.
Then he should confine himself to that area.
I can remember when he wen't after Kiefer.
For no reason but his own.
Did David approve of that?
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That is all.....
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Carol Swenson
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posted
becauseHElives is a moderator of Praise Reports & Testimonies. He was appointed by David. I see no reason why we should question that.
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
I'm putting you on notice Mr.wild man I will not rest from prayer and diligence as a child of Yahweh and give one moment peace to the perverted teaching of the Bearen Bible Society.
here on this board and every other place I incounter them...
there is one Gospel and it is not Paul's.....Paul preached a continuation of Yahshua's Gospel...
and to preach any other Gospel than the one Yahshua preached is to be accursed.
LOL
Now its Twist, Bait, and throw up the Smoke!
Stop your sillyness.
You may be able to bully those in your house not here. Not any more.
You really should turn in that moderator badge.
It is clear to all your tactics.
![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif)
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
I said that a carnal christian is a contradiction of terms....
I have always said here is a war in the new creation....
but I have always maintained you can not give in to that carnal nature....
if you surrender to the carnal nature you will eventually in up lost....
you believe you are eternally secure even if you live in sin after you have made a confession of faith.....I disagree
More twist and bait.
You said that a Christian can't be carnal.
................AND
I said that I am eternally secure until the day of redemption because of the sealing of the Spirit.
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
...............NEVER HAVE I SAID,
"live in sin after you have made a confession of faith"
Try with a sin nature still present never IN SIN.
You should really stop your sillyness.
Dale give it up.
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
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posted
I'm putting you on notice Mr.wild man I will not rest from prayer and diligence as a child of Yahweh and give one moment peace to the perverted teaching of the Bearen Bible Society.
here on this board and every other place I incounter them...
there is one Gospel and it is not Paul's.....Paul preached a continuation of Yahshua's Gospel...
and to preach any other Gospel than the one Yahshua preached is to be accursed.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
I said that a carnal christian is a contradiction of terms....
I have always said here is a war in the new creation....
but I have always maintained you can not give in to that carnal nature....
if you surrender to the carnal nature you will eventually in up lost....
you believe you are eternally secure even if you live in sin after you have made a confession of faith.....I disagree
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
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posted
More Twist and bait. The following is an suggestion without being directly or explicitly stated; A tacitus of eradication of the old nature..
You said there is no such thing as Christian that is carnal.
Read your own post,
http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=53;t=000523;p=1
"After the apostle has set forth the works of the flesh and the fruits of the Spirit there comes verse 24 which deals another death-blow to the "carnal Christian" heresy. "And they that are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with the passions and lusts." He does not say "The Spiritual Christian has crucified the flesh, etc." But "they that are of Jesus Christ," the genitive of possession, of relationship. Those who possess Jesus Christ and He them, "have crucified the flash", etc. It is an aorist, a completed act, that the flesh with its lusts and passions has been crucified as a dominating principle in the life of those belonging to Jesus Christ. This is one of the many verses that the propounders of the doctrine of "carnal Christians" have overlooked.
If it reads like a duck , its a duck.
The verse being added to reads.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Someone placed the of and Jesus to twist and blend for effect.
"they that are of Jesus Christ,"
One is a purchased possession the other a lessor carnal work.
Im putting you on notice. Now that it is clear to all your twist and bait tactic you will not get another 8 years of posting on this BBS with out a closer scrutiny.
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
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posted
WildB, i have not ever once on this board ever even implied eradication of the old nature...
in 8 years of posting on this BBS and never deleting one post, if you are going to accuse me of something then provide some proof !
if you are going to accuse me then provide some evidence of your charge....
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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