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Author
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Topic: The Sin of Legalism.
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oneinchrist
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Member # 6532
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posted
Hi Carol,
I, like you, believe in a loving God who is willing to be patient with us, chastise/correct us as we go through our transformation.
I also believe that God desires for us to freely(by our own choice) love Him in return. If it were not possible for a Christian to fall away, then I would be lead to think that God controls us into loving Him back.
I love God just because of His love and faithfullness towards me. I feel that He gives me the opportunity to leave Him if I so desire................but in my heart, I know that I never will. He is my everything. He makes my heart merry and my spirit dance with joy.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
As David was chastised for his sin, so the Lord chastises all those He loves. We are human; we still have a sin nature. We make mistakes. But when we do, He disciplines us. It could be a gentle reminder, or it could be something painful, but He has more than enough wisdom and love to bring us back to Him when we foolishly stray.
And ultimate chastisement could result in a early/untimely death. Such as partaking of the Lords Supper improperly or gross unrepeated immorality.
Let David's heart talk with God teach us.
Psalms, Chapter 51
001: To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba. Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
002: Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
003: For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
004: Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
005: Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
006: Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
007: Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
008: Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
009: Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
010: Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
011: Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
012: Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
013: Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
014: Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
015: O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall show forth thy praise.
016: For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
017: The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
018: Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
019: Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Carol Swenson
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As David was chastised for his sin, so the Lord chastises all those He loves. We are human; we still have a sin nature. We make mistakes. But when we do, He disciplines us. It could be a gentle reminder, or it could be something painful, but He has more than enough wisdom and love to bring us back to Him when we foolishly stray.
We already see a lot of cults. Do you think these could be true Christians who have fallen away? I don't. I think they're people listening to deceiving spirits. I've read a few stories about true Christians who got involved in cults. They were very uncomfortable and unhappy, and they didn't stay. Most of them write that the Holy Spirit kept warning them. I believe that is true.
There are some good Christian movies that deal with the subject of falling away. One of them is "Flywheel". Worth watching.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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oneinchrist
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I believe that ignoring the warnings against idolatry and sexual immorality and continuing in a path of unrepentance can ultimately lead to a loss of communion with God. Jesus sanctifies us by the Holy Spirit, but if we neglect His warnings we hinder our own sanctification.
Carol, I believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. I just do not believe that we can go on ignoring the warnings given to us by the Holy Spirit. Please do not think that I imply that anyone here on this Christian site is in that boat. I hope not.
When King David sinned against God (in his adultery and murder) he had to repent and seek diligenty to restore His communion with God. I do not think that is any different for anyone today. We turn on God..........God never turns on us.
As far as "falling away" or "departing from the faith" or "forsaking Christ"........it is all biblical......Its just that we do not all necessarily agree on what it means to "fall away" or "depart from the faith" or "forsake Jesus". We cant just say that it doesnt exist when the bible clearly speaks on the subject showing us that in the latter times men will heed to seducing spirits.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Carol Swenson
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oneinChrist,
Could you explain this? I don't understand what you mean here. ![[1zhelp]](graemlins/1zhelp.gif)
quote:
In other words, it has much more to do with our sanctification, then it has to do with being a good boy or good girl........so Jesus warns us to keep us protected from the enemy.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Carol Swenson
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We can never be good enough. It is HIS righteousness that justifies us, not our own righteousness. If someone thinks he can "fall away" from the faith, then he does not understand what justification means.
Romans 4:25 He was given over because of our transgressions and was raised for the sake of our justification.
2 Corinthians 5:21 God made the one who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the righteousness of God.
In Hebrews, who are those who fall away? They are those who have come close to the truth of the gospel, who have benefited from the truth, but in the end have chosen to reject the gospel of Jesus Christ in order to maintain the perceived benefits of the Old Covenant, as though it was superior to the New. These are not believers who fall away, but those who came close to the truth, only to reject it.
A believer who thinks people can fall away from the faith does not himself have enough faith in the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit of Christ.
The good news (the gospel) is NOT "If you're good enough then you'll go to Heaven."
The gospel is the good news of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ that provides full and free deliverance from the power and penalty of sin according to the grace of God alone through faith in Jesus Christ alone.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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oneinchrist
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Hi again Barry,
Thank you for the explanation. It sounds to me that you are an earnest student of the bible with a sincere desire to please God and give Him honor.
I, like you, also believe that the bible teaches that man can fall away from the faith. It certainly(I believe) would have much to do with a WILLFULL neglect of warnings given to us by the Lord in His word or the Holy Spirit to our conscience. In the Old Testament the Lord would warn and warn the Israelites, and the Lord would only allow so much of their rebelling before He would turn His back on them and their faithlessness.
The reason(I believe) that we need to be alert of the reality of falling away is because such a one needs to be restored to fellowship with God. There are warnings given to the church by the Holy Spirit and I believe that the church needs to take them seriously.....especially idolatry and sexual immorality. I do not believe that the Holy Spirit and even Jesus Himself would have warned about these things unless it was of vital importance to our keeping in fellowship with God.
In other words, it has much more to do with our sanctification, then it has to do with being a good boy or good girl........so Jesus warns us to keep us protected from the enemy.
Knowledge that men can fall away is useless if the desire to see restoration is absent.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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barrykind
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Member # 35
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posted
Brother Daniel states:
quote:
I have been following sometime now the lengthy dialogue about "legalism". If I was to take a wild guess.......I would say that Barry is the one being accused of "legalism" due to his extensive preaching on the Name of the Lord and the Christian duty to obey the 10 commandments.
If Barry told us that we all had to call God the Father or Jesus by another Name otherwise we would not be saved.......that would be legalism.
but......I do not think that is what Barry is trying to do. In order to understand better, I would have to ask Barry why he believes in the importance of using the original language Names for the God the Father and Jesus the Son.
If Barry told us that we had to obey the 10 commandments to get to Heaven........that would be legalism
but Barry did not tell us that.
My concern relating to the ten commandments law........is that.....Jesus actually raises the standard across the board..........then he offers the gift of the Holy Spirit to help those who come to Him in faith accomplish the otherwise impossible. So I think our focus is off if it is channeled in on the ten commandment laws instead of more towards the teachings of Jesus contained in the New Testament. They certainly dont oppose each other. The New just rises(more perfectly) above the Old.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Brother Daniel i think you have a good handle on what im trying to say.
First im not foolish enough to make a statement like if you dont say "Yahushua" in your repentance prayer your not saved. How ignorant would that be..UNited Pentecostals (UPC) that i have dealt with in the past have stated that "If you did not say the word "Jesus" in salvation prayer and if you were not baptized saying "Jesus" and you said in the "Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost" your not even saved!
Because they use the scripture"
Acts: 4
12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
So to fall into that trap i would certainly condemn my self.
When i started reseach on Yahushua's name i used Yeshua, Yahshua, Yahoshua, and as far as my study for approx 25yrs i feel His name is Yahushua..meaning YHWH, YHVH is salvation, for i think this is what the angel told Mary. Her being a Jew understood immediatly that His name, her child within her would be "YHWH" is salvation, going back to her teaching of the scriptures "Hear o Israel they LORD God is ONE, besides me is NO OTHER!
And me thinks that it would bring into line all the scriptures about a coming Messiah.
Anyways, i studied the name "Jesus", and where it came from and what it means and has no corolation to the Father at all, none..not even close. But to tell a person your not "born again" because you did not say this name or that, never...To my honest knowledge i have never stated that, nor implied. Certain condemnation to myself if i were to state such.
The law is good! David meditated on it day and night!
The law shows us sin and its penalty, can it save you .NO because one would have to walk it "perfectly" and only Yahushua did that.
So then what is the matter, to me number one, when Yahushua rose from the dead, The law as far as being under that "school master" we are no longer, we are Under the Holy Spirit to walk in the Spirit, so as not to fulfill the flesh (ie. adultries, murders, theft, lusts, etc., etc.)
So what shall we say, is the law gone, no its there doing what it was intended far until ALL BE FULLFILLED!, when we sit down with Yahushua in the very last days where we will be with HIM forever and forever, then and only then will he do with the Law HIS intended purpose, for then He shall wipe away every tear, and sin shall be NO MORE!
This is where we mostly differ, and perhaps not so much as one would think! IF we sin, which first John tell us not to, we have an advocate with the Father....Our heart is convicted, and we repent, all is forgiven.....BUT if we continyually walk in the flesh; and we harden our hearts to conviction, we are in BIG trouble! For one who gets to that point, and only God knows where that line is, we fall back under the law, for the law is the correction of the flesh, and were NOT walking in the Spirit!, but the flesh!!!!! The wages of SIN is DEATH!, God is NOT MOCKED! for wht you sow you will reap!
Thats in a nut shell, time does not allow and being on a board is hard to express your feeling and emotions, one con be contrite and come off as hard....
Your right Brother Daniel im not saying that in order to go to be saved you had to keep the Ten Commandments.
Im trying to say, when YHWH thru the GRACE and righteousness of HIS SON Yahushua saved a miserable, sinful, unworthy dust such as i; HE forgave much causing me to love much!
Nothing is to hard, i love HIM and want to Please HIM, no matter what the cost....
i will Keep His Sabbath to the best of my understanding, why? Because He gave it to me, for my good; because HE loves me. i dont understand even all the implications here, i try to think upion Him and meditate upon HIS word, and do good to all men. If my neighbors Ox (car) falls in the ditch on the Sabbath, ill pull it out. Its not burdensome to me, i love love it, and am zeleous for everyone to love it to.
Back when they said "dont pick up sticks...OR YOULL BE STONED"...have not a clue, dont understand all that? Have many unanswered questions....
I tried to share my love of the Sabbath and my Love of YHWH, and it came off as "LEGALIST", i ant saying your going to hell for not keeping it, observing it, whatever, not my place and i dont fully understand all about that.
i LOVE YHWH, and i do all i can to keep HIS commandments....They way i see it is this..
Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven
Matt: 22 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
If we do these, we will have fulfilled the Ten Commandments, for if i love YHWH and HIS SOn Yahushua i wont willingly break any , nor hurt my neighbor..
hope this helps Brother Daniel
love
fellow bondservant
barry
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Here we see that while the blood-washed saint is saved by grace without works, he is saved unto good works. The believer obeys God’s Word, not in order to be saved but because he has been saved. It therefore cannot be legalism for a preacher to urge God’s people to keep the works of God contained in the New Testament faith.
YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!
![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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barrykind
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Betty states:
quote:
read more and you will see that Barry turns every subject into Sabbath Worship and keeping the Old Testament laws which is more then the Ten Commandments. He also believes we should keep the feasts and other festivals they did in the Old Testament. I have not gotten him to tell me how he is doing the animal sacrificing.
“Legalism” is a term frequently used to describe Bible-believing Christians who are zealous for pure doctrine and who desire to maintain holy standards of living in this wicked hour. I am called a “legalist” via e-mail at least once a day! Consider a few examples:
“You, sir, are a legalist that the Pharisees would have been mighty proud of.”
“You have a narrow minded legalistic view of Scripture. ... I write contemporary praise music, music that is used in churches in worship of God. It’s not for your approval or anyone else no matter what denomination or off the wall sect of a denomination they are.”
“Your website makes me cringe. I can understand why this world hates fundamentalist Christians when you write legalistic articles like this. There is no humility in your critiques, only a pharisaical elitism that makes my stomach turn.”
The “free thinking” attitude that lies behind the charge of legalism was expressed at a “Christian” rock concert called Greenbelt ‘83:
“We don’t believe in a fundamentalist approach. We don’t set ground rules. Our teaching is non-directive. We want to encourage people to make their own choices.”
Those who have this type of mindset label the “old-fashioned” Bible Christian a “legalist,” but it is a slanderous and wrongheaded accusation.
WHAT LEGALISM IS
True legalism has a two-fold definition in the Word of God.
First, legalism is to mix works with grace for salvation (Galatians 1). This is the theme of the epistle of Galatians. Paul warns the churches against turning from the grace of Christ (Gal. 1:6) and emphasizes that salvation is not by works or law-keeping but by the grace of Christ alone.
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Gal. 2:16).
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith” (Gal. 3:10-11).
“Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster” (Gal. 3:24-25).
According to this definition, legalists today are any who add works to the grace of Christ for salvation. The Roman Catholic Church does this. So does the Church of Christ and the Worldwide Church of God and Seventh-day Adventism and many others.
Second, legalism is to add human tradition to the Word of God.
“Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (Matt. 15:7-9).
We must be careful never to add our own tradition and teaching to the Word of God. There is one authority for faith and practice, and that is the Bible. Anything that is exalted to a place of authority equal to the Bible is condemned by God.
The Pharisees of old, in committing both of these errors, were true legalists. They rejected the grace of Jesus Christ and taught that the way of salvation was by the keeping of the law and they made their own tradition authoritative over people’s lives without a biblical basis.
The Roman Catholic Church also commits both of these errors.
Many others add things to the Word of God today. Christian Science adds Mary Baker Eddy’s writings. Seventh-day Adventism adds Ellen G. White’s writings. Many Pentecostals and Charismatics add (at least in practice) personal revelations and experience. Some old-time Pentecostals made prohibitions against drinking Coca-Cola and wearing necklaces and exalted these rules to the level of Scripture.
We must be careful when we seek to apply the principles of Scripture to Christian living that we do not fall into this trap today. For example, to set specific standards of modesty for female church workers that are supported by clear Scriptural principles, such as requiring a certain dress length and forbidding shorts, is not legalism, because the Bible requires modesty and forbids nakedness, even defining it as showing the leg and thigh and such (Isa. 47:2-3), and warns about the effect of female dress on the male (Mat. 5:28).
Setting standards can become legalism if the requirements go beyond Scripture. We must be very careful in drawing lines, that our lines are God’s and not our own. I have heard of churches that have forbidden men to wear pink shirts, because it is allegedly “feminine,” but this is going far out on a limb. The color pink, while vaguely associated with femininity, is not so intricately associated with it that we can make a law about it. Other churches have forbidden beards and facial hair. One mission that supports Central American national pastors has this rule, but it is more than ridiculous; it is legalistic, because not only does the Bible not forbid facial hair on men, it encourages it by the example of Old Testament prophets (Ezr. 9:3) and even Jesus Christ Himself (Isa. 50:6). Beards are mentioned 15 times in the Bible and never in a negative context. Another mission board required that missionaries cannot be interracially married and forbade the missionary couples even to adopt children of another race, but while there are practical issues pertaining to interracial marriages and adoptions, the Bible nowhere strictly forbids this.
Thus, we repeat, we must be very careful in drawing lines, that our lines are God’s and not our own.
WHAT LEGALISM IS NOT
Having seen what legalism is, let us now consider what it is not.
In a nutshell, for a Bible preacher to urge God’s people to obey the details of God’s Word by the grace of Christ cannot be legalism, because this is precisely what God requires. Consider the following Scriptures very carefully.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them” (Eph. 2:8-10).
Here we see that while the blood-washed saint is saved by grace without works, he is saved unto good works. The believer obeys God’s Word, not in order to be saved but because he has been saved. It therefore cannot be legalism for a preacher to urge God’s people to keep the works of God contained in the New Testament faith. I have counted 88 specific commandments in the epistle of Ephesians alone. Consider this one: “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them” (Eph. 5:11). This is a far-reaching requirement. The believer must guard every area of his life, every activity, to make sure that he is not having fellowship with the works of darkness. Not only so, but he is reprove the works of darkness. This is one of the verses that spoke to my heart 32 years ago and convinced me that I had to put rock & roll music out of my Christian life. It is certainly an unfruitful work of darkness, but the requirement does not stop with music. It involves every part of the Christian life, dress, companionship, music, entertainment, literature, relationships with churches and professing believers, you name it. To take such commandments of the New Testament faith seriously and to apply them rigorously cannot, therefore, be “legalism.”
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee” (Titus 2:11-15).
Here, again, we see that the grace of Christ does not teach Christians to live carelessly but to live strictly. The grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, which is a far-reaching obligation. It means that we are to examine every area of our lives and churches in order to root out ungodliness. Again, this involves every aspect of the Christian life, dress, companionship, music, entertainment, literature, you name it.
And notice in Titus 2:15, that the Spirit of God concludes this passage about avoiding ungodliness with the following exhortation to preachers: “These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.” The preacher has a solemn obligation before God to speak, exhort, and rebuke on the basis of these passages. It cannot, therefore, be any sort of “legalism” if a preacher takes this obligation seriously and applies this teaching to every area of life, speaking, exhorting, and rebuking about ungodliness and worldly lusts in the area of music and dress, companionship, entertainment, etc.
“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine” (2 Tim. 4:1-2).
Here we see a similar obligation to the one in Titus 2:15. The preacher has a solemn responsibility before God for his preaching and he will give an account to Jesus Christ. He is to preach the Word. What part of it? All of it! He is not only to read the Word verbatim; he is to preach it and to apply it to the people’s everyday lives. He is to reprove, rebuke, and exhort. He is to make sure that the Word of God gets down to where the people live, to apply it to every aspect of their individual lives, their family lives, their employment, their service for Christ, their companionships, their entertainment, their dress, their music, you name it. The Word of God speaks to every area of life, and the preacher is obligated to follow it wherever it leads. This is definitely not “legalism.”
“Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen” (Matt. 28:20).
This is part of the obligation of Christ’s Great Commission. Those who believe the gospel and are baptized are to be taught to keep ALL things that He has commanded. This is another far-reaching requirement. It means that the churches are to be concerned about all of the New Testament faith and not just some part of it that happens to be popular at the moment, and they are to train their people to keep all of it. The churches are obligated, therefore, to teach separation from the world, separation from false teaching, rejection of heretics, church discipline, the reality of eternal hell, repentance, denial of self, everything; they must teach the popular things and the unpopular. To take Christ’s commandment seriously and to seek to be faithful to the whole New Testament faith cannot, therefore, be “legalism.”
Strict obedience to God’s Word by Christ’s grace is the way of liberty, not bondage.
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:31-32).
The love of God is to obey His commandments. “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous” (1 John 5:3).
The believer does not keep the Word of God in his own power and strength or to his own glory. He keeps it by the power of the indwelling Christ and to His glory. “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me” (Gal. 2:20).
David Cloud
This is pretty much how i see it folks; at the first part about "shorts" dress length, thats up to a woman and her husband i think. i firmly believe in modest dress, but dont think i would legislate lengths. barry
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carol Swenson
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The legalist believes his works earn or keep his salvation, while the holy man of God understands that he is living the way he does because he is saved.
I obey my Mom. I don't hope to become her daughter - I already am. And I'm not afraid that she'll disown me. I obey her because I love her, and I know she won't ask me to do something without a good reason.
It is the same, only more so, with my Lord and Savior. I already am His child, and He will not leave me or forsake me (Hebrews 13:5). He will not disown me. I obey Him because I love Him, because He won't ask me to do anything without a good reason, and because His Holy Spirit works through me to accomplish His purpose.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Betty Louise
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read more and you will see that Barry turns every subject into Sabbath Worship and keeping the Old Testament laws which is more then the Ten Commandments. He also believes we should keep the feasts and other festivals they did in the Old Testament. I have not gotten him to tell me how he is doing the animal sacrificing.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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oneinchrist
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I have been following sometime now the lengthy dialogue about "legalism". If I was to take a wild guess.......I would say that Barry is the one being accused of "legalism" due to his extensive preaching on the Name of the Lord and the Christian duty to obey the 10 commandments.
If Barry told us that we all had to call God the Father or Jesus by another Name otherwise we would not be saved.......that would be legalism.
but......I do not think that is what Barry is trying to do. In order to understand better, I would have to ask Barry why he believes in the importance of using the original language Names for the God the Father and Jesus the Son.
If Barry told us that we had to obey the 10 commandments to get to Heaven........that would be legalism
but Barry did not tell us that.
My concern relating to the ten commandments law........is that.....Jesus actually raises the standard across the board..........then he offers the gift of the Holy Spirit to help those who come to Him in faith accomplish the otherwise impossible. So I think our focus is off if it is channeled in on the ten commandment laws instead of more towards the teachings of Jesus contained in the New Testament. They certainly dont oppose each other. The New just rises(more perfectly) above the Old.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Carol Swenson
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posted
Thank you Betty! Good post!
"The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogance and the evil way and the froward mouth I hate...." (Proverbs 8:13)
"Everyone who is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though they join forces, none will go unpunished." (Proverbs 16:5).
Deep within the heart of every man exists a darkness, a demon, a foul disease. It is an evil that lodges in each and every one of us and distinguishes not between men, whether rich or poor, free or slave. The rich man, who looks down on the poor and boasts of his wealth, is in bondage to it. The poor man, who likewise despises the rich and views his poverty as injustice and a barrier to his rightful due, is controlled by it. The free man and the slave are also co-laborers beneath its miserable yoke. It is a universal cancer; it is ungodly pride.
It was pride that reached out the hand in the Garden to take of the forbidden fruit. It was pride which formed the foundation of the infamous Tower, and pride that laid its every stone, one upon the other. It was pride that moved David to number his troops and to trust in the sword and the chariot rather than in his God. Pride kept the Israelites in the wilderness for forty years. Pride drove Nebuchadnezzar from his throne and deprived him of his sanity. Pride brought the Apostle Peter low. Pride ate the heart of Herod with worms. Pride crucified the Lord of Glory and brought destruction upon Jerusalem. Rightly does the Scripture declare, "Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" (Proverbs 16:18).
Beware of this consuming cancer; check its spread before it overruns your whole person. Never entertain the thought that perchance you are immune from such a dread disease. Pride is at first a shadow that seeks to elude our notice; it feeds upon ignorance and draws strength from blindness. "You do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked" (Revelation 3:17), was the chastisement of Christ against the prideful Laodiceans. Yet, once discovered, pride becomes a roaring beast that will fight its eradication with tooth and claw. Fervent prayer and sweat and tears will prove this adversary not unconquerable. However, neither begin to speculate that, once discovered and strived against, that it has gone into remission and cannot assault you afresh. "...Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees...." (Matthew 16:11)
"Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith" (2 Corinthians 13:5). Further, examine the standard by which you examine yourself. Is it by the infallible Word of God, or is it by your own sentiments and your own self-love that you judge yourself.? Do not even stop there; examine also your interpretation of the standard of the Word. Is it according to truth, or is it according to your own depravity?
Always remain suspicious of yourself, of your own righteous deeds and of your knowledge, yea, of your own humility- too easily you may begin to find your righteousness and knowledge grounds for praise, and your humility itself a source of pride. Maintain a constant mistrust regarding yourself, and never rest upon anything but the mercy of the Father and the Blood of His Son for your justification. Therein lies your only source of hope and assurance.
Heed also the words of Jesus Christ:
"... Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye' ; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." (Matthew 7:3-5).
The intent of our Lord in this passage was not to distinguish between sins or to class them by degrees or magnitude, this one a plank, and that one but a speck. Rather, His exhortation was to make us mindful first of the sin that dwells nearest unto us before we notice that which is afar. What business have you in rebuking your brother and making known his shortcomings, when so great and numerous are your own? The sin that putrefies our own home is to seem to us of more import and ever more odious than that which putrefies our neighbor's home. Though our nostrils, having grown accustomed to the stench in which we ourselves dwell, may often be more sensitive to that to which we are temporarily exposed, we are instructed by Christ to search diligently to find the sin within ourselves before that which is in others. And when we have so discovered one sin, there is yet another that eludes our gaze and must be rooted out. So endless is this task and so consuming this duty, that scarcely have we time to assist our brother in his own search.
Pride is quick to see the faults of others but slow to focus upon the faults of the very heart in which it has taken residence. In reading this article, notice how quickly your mind has envisioned someone other than yourself to which these descriptions apply. Notice the exultation that you have begun to feel rise up within your heart in knowing that the prideful man has at last been discovered and exposed publicly. Indeed he has been; he is you:
"... All of you be submissive to one another., and be clothed with humility, for 'God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.' Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time...." (1 Peter 5:5-6)
http://ecclesia.org/truth/pride.html
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Betty Louise
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I think I was wrong, Legalism does not end in pride, it develops and grows in the garden of pride. It is nothing new. In Galatians, Paul talked about Jewish Christians who took pride in convincing Gentiles to become Jews first and then Christians.
It was the pride of the Pharisees that caused the to reject Jesus-their Messiah. They knew that Jesus was telling that He was God, but their pride rejected His truth, because they did not want to accept truth from a lowly man who was in their eyes only the son of a carpenter.
These six things the LORD hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
Notice the first and the last things that the Lord hates: pride and one who sows discard among the brethren. Legalistic people are filled with pride and then in their sin of pride they sow discard among the brethren. They think they are better then others because they have become Jewish and Christian too. Paul makes it clear in the book of that of Galatians, becoming a Jew does not make one a better Christian.
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
17 "But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
Justification by Faith
Justification by Faith
(cf. Rom. 4:1–25)
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
The Law Brings a Curse
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Purpose of the Law
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Sons and Heirs
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
It is sad then 2,000 years after Paul had to correct Christian Jews who were going back to the law to save them, we have Christians today who are doing the same thing.
Again today Christians are falling under the spell of pride believing they are somehow a better Christians because they are keeping the law, the law that Paul said could not save us but only show us our sinful nature to lead us to the real Savior and that is Jesus Christ our Lord. Using only the Jewish Name of Jesus does not make a person anymore spiritual then any one else. It is not how we pronounce the Name of Jesus that saves us but His Holy Blood. Keeping the feast and festivals does not make you a superior Christians.
Have we come so far to only go back to teaching that keeping the law is required to be saved? Have we come so far in our walk with Christ that we are willing to commit the sin of creating division in the body of Christ to promote our own selfish desires to show our selves better then others in the body?
When we realize that our time is short and it is better to spend our time promoting salvation in Christ then boosting our own morale at the expense of our brothers and sisters in Christ? When are we going to stop destroying our selves in an attempt to be superior to one another?
Paul died because he promoted salvation in the blood of Jesus only. If he had promoted Judaism as a stepping stone to salvation, he would have appease the Jews and lived a long life. Paul knew that the law did not save anyone and that to promote such a teaching would have been heresy. Those promoting such teaching here are heretics. They are desecrating the very precious blood of my Lord and Savior: Jesus Christ. They offend every Christian who believes salvation is by faith and not works and they offend my God and my Savior.
THIS IS WHAT PAUL WOULD SAY TO THEM:
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
I pray that those who are depending on the Law and keeping Jewish feast and festivals to save them, would come back to the truth of the Gospel before it is too late.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Stop committing the sin of pride. Stop sowing discard among the brethren and go back to the teaching of the truth Gospel.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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