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Author
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Topic: The tri-part nature of creation
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Brother Paul
Advanced Member
Member # 7959
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posted
TB125...Very nicely done. This brother or sister is, as you said, concentrating on a specific aspect of time (as a temporal phenomena), but it is quite informative and has a lot of truth. A well thought out piece. Thank you...
Brother Paul
P.S. I am going to send an additional post along this time idea. I hope this will breed much thought and hopefully if some see where I can improve, clarify, or correct my thinking in this study I would greatly appreciate and grow from the criticism and feedback. The peace of God be with you.
Posts: 235 | From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Dec 2009
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botham
Advanced Member
Member # 7935
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posted
thank you brother Paul --where do you find the time. Anyway I'm grateful that we have a friend in Christ who studies and contemplates the philosophical issues with respect to our faith.
I thought to ask you to encapsulate your ideas into point form. But in a moment's reflection it came to me that your comments are probably as simplified as they can be without missing your meaning. Our God is so great. So much for those who would not turn to Him in fear that their life will become dull, boring and confined. I've often thought of God as the Perfect Poet from whom we learn best by bending the knee and heart, the great paradoxes. To die is to live, a slave to Christ is liberty. Not just idle platitiudes but very real Truths.
The complexities can drive us crazy if we're not settled that God created all that we perceive and that He is in control. I am very glad to worship a God that I can never fully understand. I want Him forever to be the Glory after Glory. I've even heard it said that Heaven could be boring, an eternity of this or that. It's exciting to know the Truth--that untold vistas of meaning will unfold in an eternal plan for the believer.
Space, matter/energy, and time. Space was thoght to be the void between material objects for the longest time. And time was thought to be a divisional convenience and meaningful support for material existence. But physicists are understanding more and more that they are tangible(to put it crudely) items and can be subjected successfully to theoretical experimentation. Gravity, to my pathetic understanding, is a phenomenon related to the movement of a sphere through space whereby space is distorted creating the said gravity. Time slows down related to speed, so it must have properties, so it it a thing not just a concept. Then there's atoms, electrons and muons and string theory. Don't get me started on string theory--actually I don't understand a thing about string theory except it's about particles so small that anything beside saying they might exist is pure folly.
It is staggering to think that educated people can discover these things and still believe, with a faith that must transcend the general faith of religious people, that all this could just happen. They jump ship at the point of why anything exists at all. Most say they will leave that to religion even when they know in their heart of hearts it is the real question. Meanwhile the post existence theory of evolution suffices to intrigue and creationists are mocked.
Posts: 103 | From: canada | Registered: Nov 2009
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
This is a very interesting topic -- somewhat reminding me of the post earlier by Eden about the tri-human existance: Body, Soul and Spirit.
I believe all creation is a reflection of God in some way -- simply because he made it.
Because he made it, the creation, it is an expression of God.
Likewise, if you were to paint a picture it would be an expression of your self -- may it be your emotions, a painting of your body, etc. It would still reflect an aspect of you.
Good post with an ability to make one think.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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TB125
Advanced Member
Member # 2450
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posted
Hi Brother Paul,
I would be interested in your feedback regarding a statement that I have on "Time" on my website. You can find it here: http://www.christianityetc.org/time.php I don't think that it is a denial of your teaching regarding the triune nature of time and God. It is only a particular focus on one aspect of it. What do you think?
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Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
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Brother Paul
Advanced Member
Member # 7959
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posted
The ancient Rabbis knew about this! The renowned Rabbi Simeon commenting on Deuteronomy 6:4 asks, “Why is there a need of mentioning the Name of God three times in this verse?” Then he answers his own query for us when he says, “The first Lord is the Father above. The second is the stem of Jesse, the Messiah Who is to come from the family of Jesse through David. And the third is the Way below (meaning the Holy Spirit Who shows us the way) and these three are one.” (parenthesis mine)
Rabbi Nassi also, writing on Rosh HaShannah says, “…the three-fold sound of the ram’s horn which is sounded on Rosh HaShannah is an emblem of the three-fold nature of God.” You see? Some Jewish people knew of and believed in the Tri-Unity or Trinity, even though they could not or would not admit it, but their own sages attested to what the Scriptures teach.
One can see just from this small non-exhaustive presentation that the Tri-Unity of the One God, is a Scriptural, pre-Christian notion, which was actually conveyed to many ancient Jewish people through the Torah, the Writings, and the Prophets (I have other examples). Notice the triune arrangement of the Tanach (Old Testament)? …the Law, the Writings, and the Prophets? It is one of His signatures you know.
He has made many things after this fashion…even the whole of Creation! The heavens indeed declare His handiwork just as David declared. And let us not forget that Paul in Romans 1 tells us that even His eternal power and Godhead are made known in the things that are made? To that I say, Yeah and Amen! Though somewhat philosophical, let me give you an example of this from what science has discovered.
Ever wonder why is the Universe what it is? What is its structure? Does the composition actually indicate the nature of its cause? And what about our Earth, which itself is core, mantle, and crust, does it not also reflect this universal qualitative nature of things? The very crust upon which we live also moves in three ways causing the three major landforms, mountains, valleys, and flatlands and provides our very life sustaining geography canopied in an atmosphere three layers thick. Hmmm!
Now Science has determined, that the first and most basic aspect of the Universe is Space, without which there would be no physical universe. We define space in three foundational dimensions, length, breadth, and height. These three are “absolute” and “necessary”. The one phenomena called space is defined by these three qualities. No one of these three is either of the others, but they help us understand the presence of the others, and together they are one. Take away any one, and the other two enter into the perceptually abstract. The example most often used to show this is that if there was no height, then breadth and length become what is referred to as a plane surface. We can only imagine a 2-dimensional universe. It does not make sense. Therefore, such a phenomena is non-sense if we are talking of an actual universe! It could not exist for us so that we could perceive it if we lived within it. The real Created universe, however, does exist, but such a thing as this hypothetical 2-dimensional one can only be imagined, because it cannot exist and still be defined as being composed of space.
Next, for either one aspect of this three-ness to have real meaning and purpose, they must be a unity, yet height is not depth, nor width, nor is width, height, and so on. Each one depends on the others to fully be expressed and made to have significant meaning and purpose. They are physically an interdependent oneness or unity just as God is one spiritually. The essential oneness precedes and emanates forth this quality of three-ness. Is this not also like unto Light, which essentially is one phenomena but can be expressed in it’s three primary colors from which all other color possibility arise? Yes, exactly like light.
Besides Space there is also a second primary quality of creation called Matter. Matter is that which fills and embodies space, and which the Lord used to give meaningful purposeful form to all the phenomena of the physical universe. According to modern chemistry and physics, matter, energy and motion are one (E=MC2). In other words Einstein discovered that energy is present because of mass being multiplied by the square of the velocity and vice’ versa. This is a secondary revelation that today’s physicists derive from the depth of realization provided by the math of this scientific hero and genius. It is not simply that this is what energy actually is, but rather how we measure it’s reality. Essentially energy is matter and vice versa, and it is measured by nature of there being motion or velocity. Velocity is a result or manifestation of the present amount of energy working in or on matter. Motion is a quality of matter that reveals the real presence of energy or force at work. Thus motion is an equally necessary quality of the matter/energy tri-electic universal equation, complete with all the infinite variations and complexities of motion into which the principle of motion differentiates itself. Because of this tri-unity we have all the recognizable phenomena that we can know of with our finite senses. All of them, whether light, heat, sound, geometry, color, substance, distance, difference, etc., are all an expression of this tri-unity!
This three-ness quality of matter beyond its obvious structural tri-unity cannot actually be divided other than in the imagination. Motionless matter is energy-less matter. Such a thing is a logical absurdity to Chemistry and Physics. Energy must be present, and if not kinetically, then in potential. Likewise, if there were no mass, what would the energy work upon, and what could we perceive (of course if this could be, then there would be no “we” to perceive or not perceive). See how absurd this becomes? If there were no energy, how would matter exhibit motion (inner or outer), that is from the most basic atomic level to that which we perceive most grossly. Therefore it is apparent that without recognizing the interdependent tri-une quality of matter, the science of it becomes nonsensical! Whether we realize it or not, all three are being recognized from the energy in which it is essentially based, to the phenomena of it being perceived. One aspect, in reality, cannot be divorced from the others, only in theory for the purposes of our investigation and more refined definition. Energy is the cause of the motion of the mass. The mass which is in continuous flux demonstrates the energy. The motion, and indicator of the energy, has to be moving something (or in something) to be perceived. Motion expresses the energy in the mass being moved. Can any two characteristics therefore exist without the other? Of course not, this would be totally absurd. It is one absolute unity not more or less, and itself can exist in three forms. Energy can no more produce activity without mass, than motion can exist void of it, and motion cannot be perceived without something being moved. Motion is, because of mass and energy. Energy is, because of motion and mass. And mass is, because of motion and energy. The three are one…absolutely! So we can see this signature of the one being expressed as threeness in matter as well as in space.
Now the third essential quality of the Created Universe is Time. Time is also expressed as a three-ness, i.e., past, present, and future! Again it is an absolute tri-unity. The one phenomena is manifest in it’s three-ness. Each aspect interdependent and non-divorceable (pardon the invention of a word) from the other, save in the realm of imagination for the purposes of definition, division, and distinction as a frame of reference. No one of these three can exist without the other two and still be time. Imagine if there were no past, then there could not be a present, and since the future is dependent on the motions of now (what is happening, producing effect, makes time intimately related to space and matter as discussed above). If there were no “now” there could be no “then”, ie., no future. These distinctions are relative descriptions divided comparatively only for our finite intellectual capacity to comprehend. Since time is a function or dimension of the universe, and the universe had a beginning, before the universe, there had to be a state of non-time, and so this essential timelessness (the Eternal) will also be there when the universe ceases to be. That which is without beginning and/or ending is described by the word symbol “eternal” thus the eternal precedes and antecedes the temporal. Time is/was born out of the timelessness. In the eternal, where in is the potential for all we call time, the past, present, and future are all one. Pardon the excursion into the philosophical.
Truly and honestly however, consider that if time did not exist up until now and that now, I mentioned then has already passed, then time has ceased to exist, which of course it hasn’t because thanks to our wonderful Creator, time is past, present, and future simultaneously. Our present is the future to another past and a past to another future. If there were no present then time has never existed and we would not be discussing this. If there is no future then time must stop right “NOW”! Do you see how absurd this becomes? So the past, present, and future are three things time is, and time is the third qualitative element of the universe along with space and matter. Time is, not does! The words past, present, and future, are merely the symbolic way our catagorizing perceptual ability makes the absolute unity of the phenomena relative and comprehensible. For the finite mind to grasp the eternal essential nature of all this could be maddening for many, so the miraculous brain we possess was created to classify the experience in order to maintain our ego’s integrity and wholeness.
In the Creation, time is conserved because there is always all of time, and no part of it is actually ever lost, save in the imaginations of men, neither is it expended into non-existence so long as the universe still is, and even then it merely transforms back into it’s essential timelessness or eternal state of reality, for the eternal must be the essential state or quality of the temporal reality because it is for the sake of our finite ego being able to comprehend this, both predecessor and antecessor. Yet time is altered by location and speed, or at least the perception of it.
Thus all three essential (physical) aspects of the one Creation, for example, space, matter, and time, are each a oneness which is tri-une, and taken together in our perception of reality they are together one phenomena. This is one universal equation, is expressed in their three-ness for purposes of our finite human comprehension that behind it all is a greater Tri-unity. Is the Universe then merely bearing witness to a yet greater revelation of God’s essential reality? Of course! We know it, but who has believed our report as Isaiah asks…
The Lord is for us…
In Christ,
Brother Paul
Posts: 235 | From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Dec 2009
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