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Author
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Topic: apostasy and reform
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Copper25
Advanced Member
Member # 7464
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posted
Simply put on this one, can God have and own, and change the inner man without the change effecting the outter man? I think not.
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Isaiah 40:6) The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field
Posts: 262 | From: Rochester, NY | Registered: Nov 2008
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Copper25 on this discussion , i am more in agreement with you.....
apostasy is way more than denying that Jesus came in the flesh.
and Eden quote:
Are you talking about movies? Are you talking about books? Are you talking about TV? What do you say these "Christian changes" should have been, please?
all things you mention movie, books, TV, and more are affected....a new creature is a new creature...
things once loved , become thing now hated because there is now an awareness of the things that please Yahweh and displeases Yahweh....
if I become aware something is against what is allowed in scripture and I am so rebellious as to thumb my nose at Yahweh's Word and say I am not going to change.... there is a real good chance you are not "Born Again" to start with...
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Copper25
Advanced Member
Member # 7464
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posted
The thing to keep in mind is that until the day of Lord Jesus return, Things WILL only get worse and worst, more perversion of the truth, more falsehood increasing. Hear what many peachers say for instance, they would rather amuse you with funny stories than to take the exegesis analyzation. They don't want to talk about sin, holding back that which is needful for their church to hear. "God is love, so let us not talk about hell", says one, yet Jesus talked about hell alot. Many soft words rather then the hard words like those of Jeremiah or Ezekiel. Rather then telling people what is needful, they patronize the people in many cases. As the servants, the preachers of God, it is imporant to give the full counsel of God. God is love, yes but (Hebrews 12:29) our God is a consuming fire.
Matthew 24
3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
There is a reason why Christ specifically says this as the first part of His answer
again,
Matthew 24:11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
A key word is many, when Christ ever uses the word "many", consider the massive weight of everything Christ says
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Isaiah 40:6) The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field
Posts: 262 | From: Rochester, NY | Registered: Nov 2008
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Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596
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posted
Copper, Yes I believe that many are in that state right now. A greater concern I have is deception that has already come and will grow stronger..
"Having a form of godliness ( religion ) but denying the Power thereof " 2 Timothy 3: 5
"I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ for it is the Power of God unto Salvation " Romans 1:16
"There be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1: 7, 8
"As we said before, so say I now again,
If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1: 9
2 Corinthians 11: 4
"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received,
or another gospel, which ye have not accepted ....
( v3 ) I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty ( appealing persuasion ) ,so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ ( Jesus ) ."
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
2 John 1:7-11....
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
"from such turn away" 2 Timothy 3
"Matthew 24:23-26
Then if any man shall say unto you,
'Lo, here is Christ', or,' there'; believe it not.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders;
( see 2 Thessalonians 2: 3 )
insomuch that if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before"
Also see Deuteronomy 13
"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
And the sign or the wonder COME TO PASS, whereof he spake unto thee, saying,
"Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them."
Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul."
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009
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Copper25
Advanced Member
Member # 7464
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posted
The Apostasy is not just of those that deny that Jesus came in the flesh. The big element of the apostasy will be rather, people that call themselves Christians that deny the Lord Jesus with their Life
"And you know there are a lot of people who affirm the existence of God with their lips, and they deny his existence with their lives"
Martin Luther King Jr.
Now let us look at what the Lord Jesus said
Matthew 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Jesus did not say, by doing my Father's will, no because that would make it by works and no longer by grace but He says "he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
The evidence that someone is converted WILL be something that will be manifested into their life, NOT JUST A "o well I confessed the Lord with my lips" sort of deal. NO, NO, NO
Truly I say unto you that A person can confess the Lord saying "Lord, Lord" all their life and still go to hell. Why?
John 3
5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
I tell you truly though a person confess the Lord Jesus forty years, thinking that they are in the faith, that they are going to heaven, that they have a relationship with Christ, if they are not born again, they are on the road to hell. John 3:7) "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."
Woe, Woe, Woe is unto all those in todays world that confess Christian treating it like a game of house, like a pretend thing that has no weight! ALL unregenerates will NOT enter into the kingdom of God! A person can act as piest as they want on the outside, but mark my words, they cannot fake the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit. These are they of the apostasy. Truly I tell you that not everyone claiming to be Christian really is a Christian, and out of the many claiming to be Christ Jesus disciple, many ARE NOT. How do I know?
Matthew 7
13) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I tell you truly that Jesus Christ was not talking about ALL those that confess His name to all those that don't, but in reality, this is the reality, out of ALL THOSE WHO CONFESS CHRIST, MANY NEVER KNEW HIM, and are on the path to destruction. The many are they that are in apostasy and what makes it so scary for them, they don't even realize it!
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Isaiah 40:6) The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field
Posts: 262 | From: Rochester, NY | Registered: Nov 2008
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Hi, sister Betty Louise, you wrote quote:
A Christian should not be living in sin. That is a fact.
For the benefit of our audience in the epew, what in your opinion would "living in sin" be?
thanks, Eden
"hope you and Mr. Givens are having a wonderful day. Is there a Mr. Betty Louise too?"
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
dear becauseHElives, I want to thank you for being here and your calm demeanor. You wrote quote:
Do true christian continue to do evil because it is the accepted procedure of the established church?
Please explain what you think the "accepted procedure of the established church" is? Thanks.
Howbeit, I am personally amazed that there seem to be a lot of Christians who say that they believe in Jesus, but their lives don't really exhibit any change of what they were doing before they were saved.
So becauseHElives, if I may ask, "what do you think those 'Christian changes' should be"? Can you give me some examples, please?
Are you talking about movies? Are you talking about books? Are you talking about TV? What do you say these "Christian changes" should have been, please?
Thank you, Eden.
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Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596
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posted
First of all I believe that all must remember that It is The church of The Lord Jesus Christ and not something that belongs to us. We are members of a "Body" His Body.
God has set leaders in His church who are accountable to Him as Shepherds over His flock.
He has given instruction in the word of God for leaders to "shepherd the flock" Filling them with His Spirit and thereby He continues to Oversee His Church.
We have a number of denominations that do things differently as in worship, ministry or Bible doctrine. This does not mean that because one does things differently that it is not an assembly of The Lord. The common denominator among the denominations IS The Lord Jesus Christ. We see the seven church's in Revelation NONE of them identical but ALL were overseen by The Lord.
The Great Apostasy will be a denial that The Lord Jesus Christ came in the flesh. We can see that spirit at work in this age greatly.
The church's ONE mission and focus right now (and always has been) should be for the lost. For getting the gospel to as many as we can reach!
The hour is late. Too late to mettle and complain about what other denominations are doing or not doing. The Lord is The Lord of His church...
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Keeper
Advanced Member
Member # 7675
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posted
When doing a study on history, considering the different cultures, and other changes through our American heritage there are so many things to consider.
How do you do a fair comparison? It is impressive to know that one of the first things a new town does is build a church. Kids were taught bible in school along with the 3R's.
As we grew up we had a good chance of getting killed in a war or being robbed and so on.
Medicine was not very effective and certainly was not the most expensive cost of living. It was the custom for women to wear long hair, a hat, or scarf and a long dress. Men wore suits and ties.
Most men and women tried to abide to the Ten Commandments and were usually big on helping their neighbors. No drugs, Pleanty of booze, no porn, pleanty of gambling, few murders, not many folks. Abortions were unheard of as were single parents.
No, I don't think that Christians continue to sin or do evil as they did before being saved because it is acceptable due to the age. My guess is because of TV, Cell Phones, Movies, Cars and Trucks, and other things that distract.
Those things are normal and part of living these days.
Often the big concern about a bible in the home is if it is dusted off and carried to church.
When a person is old enough to know better, they should.
It is good to worry about our fellow man but lest we forget to be responsible for ourselves.
Posts: 481 | Registered: Apr 2009
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Betty Louise
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Member # 7175
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posted
The problem is if you are talking about sin but what you consider evil. At my daughter's Church they think I am evil for cutting my hair (although actually my hair at the moment is shoulder length) and wearing pants.
A Christian should not be living in sin. That is a fact.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Do true christian continue to do evil because it is the accepted procedure of the established church?
where would the church be today if the early reformers had not address the issues of their day?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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