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Author
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Topic: Genuine Faith
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Good Morning Eden,
No, I do not mean "have you changed your behavior?"........I mean just exactly what I said. I think there is a huge difference IN THE HEART OF A PERSON when there is a transition from Jesus is "the savior" to Jesus is "my savior" and Jesus is "the Lord" to Jesus is "my Lord".
Jesus is not Lord because of the miracles, Jesus is Lord because of His deity(eternal Sonship). But, if the miracles are what have convinced you that Jesus is Lord, I can have nothing to say against that.
In regards to your question.......I believe that love towards the Lord and love towards others is the greatest evidence that one is in the faith........for God is love.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
hi, oneinchrist, quote:
I continue to appreciate how kind you are in your questions and answers. As for what you wrote:[quote]I do have a question for you, Eden, that will hit at the core of your beliefs.
That's a bold statement; we shall see. LOL quote:
I hear you repeat often that you believe that you are saved on the basis that you have received Jesus as Savior. Now my question is...
yes, that's true, that IS what I say. You continued: quote:
Do you believe that we can be saved without receiving Jesus as Lord of our lives?
This is what I think about that, oneinchrist.
When a sinner who is not yet saved reads the KJV Old and New Testament about the miracles and resurrection of Jesus, that sinner gets saved by eventually coming to the conclusion that no human could have done the miracles that Jesus did and no human could have resurrected as Jesus did.
As a result, that sinner decides that "Jesus is the Lord from heaven" and so "Jesus becomes the Lord from heaven" for the sinner.
So now Jesus is the Lord of heaven for me. But then you say: quote:
[quote]I continue to appreciate how kind you are in your questions and answers. As for what you wrote:[quote]Do you believe that we can be saved without receiving Jesus as Lord of our lives?
I just received Him as Lord.
Now, what you "really" mean is that, if I have seen that Jesus is Lord, have I changed my behavior from what I was before I was saved, is that not what you mean, oneinchrist.
And I have a question for you, oneinchrist, which will strike at the core of your belief. Do you think it's possible to be this enthusiastic about the Lord Jesus and not be saved or that I deeply love My Lord? I'm only that enthusiastic about those whom I love more especially.
love, Eden
"hold me closer each day, let me feel Your embrace"
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi Eden,
Yes Eden, I agree that "consent of the will" is not just "saying" yes to God verbally, but meaning "yes" in the heart. The only other thing that I would add is that I believe that this "consent of the will"(yielding) needs to be a yielding to the revealed word of God as well as a yielding to the Holy Spirit Himself. I would think that you would agree with that.
I do have a question for you, Eden, that will hit at the core of your beliefs. I hear you repeat often that you believe that you are saved on the basis that you have received Jesus as Savior. Now my question is................................
Do you believe that we can be saved without receiving Jesus as Lord of our lives?
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
oneinchrist wrote to Eden quote:
The distinction that I was trying to make is the distinction between belief that is just "mental assent" and belief that is active in that it involves "consent of the will to the assent of the truth"...
Okay, holy mackerel, "consent of the will to the assent of the truth" is again a mouthful.
Is this something we "say" to ourselves and to God, like "God, I give you my will to the assent of the truth", and "then it "just happens rightaway"?
Or is it something that we realize we need to do, as in "Lord, not my will be done but Your will be done", as in, "okay God, I will get out of the way and I trust that when YOU say that YOU will guide my steps, that indeed You WILL guide my steps", so then I "cease from my own works" and thereby I "also enter into my rest"?
Is that what you mean by "it involves consent of the will to the assent of the truth"? Obviously we need more than just "saying" it, but I don't think there is anyone on earth, not even becauseHElives, who can actually stay permanently in "not my will be done, Lord, but Your will be done".
I understand that we "wish" our will to be laid down 100%, but the actual experience of that is another matter. In my opinion, only Jesus was able to 100% lay down His willl, being the "second man" and the "last Adam".
In any case, it is not as easy as "consent of the will to the assent of the truth", whatever that may mean; it practically requires a college degree to understand, oneinchrist.
love, Eden
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi again Eden,
The distinction that I was trying to make is the distinction between belief that is just "mental assent" and belief that is active in that it involves "consent of the will to the assent of the truth".......that is what I meant by standing ready to obey Jesus, His Word, and yes the Holy spirits guidance)
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Keeper
Advanced Member
Member # 7675
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posted
Eden, if you feel that there is evidence that OneinChrist deserves to be worried about by you, perhaps you should consider your own needs first.
So far, OneinChrist and myself have been trying to explain how your interpretation of the working of the Holy Spirit is alien to the scriptures. Your telling OneinChrist that he makes things so complicated is almost funny coming from you.
Furthermore, you have changed the subject again.
Your post was the second one here and you changed the subject already.
Your thought that the Holy Spirit will completely take over your body and put your brain to rest might be a good idea but that is not the plan. I need not to go into all of your thoughts. It is often doubtful that you seriously mean what you say on such matters.
Posts: 481 | Registered: Apr 2009
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
oneinchrist wrote quote:
True belief in Jesus means that we believe in Him for who He is and what He has done, and it also means that our hearts stand ready to obey Him because of who He is and what He has done.
Surely He is worthy of our worship and submissive obedience!
I'm worried about you sometimes, oneinchrist. You make a simple thing so complicated sometimes.
Of course we believe in what Jesus has done for us and for who He is, but when it comes to this business of "having our hearts stand ready to obey Him", all that means is that we "have decided to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit" RIGHT this minute and from now on, we will have faith that if God SAID that He would now begin to guide out steps that God is in fact guiding our steps right now.
It isn't some mysterious "having our hearts ready to obey Him" as in, "I hope someday He will use me", no, no, no.
There are only two things possible. Either I run my own thought life and emotional life, or I trust that God is now guiding my steps by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus tells the Holy Spirit to do and say to me from moment-to-moment.
It isn't some mysterious "having our hearts ready to obey Him" as in, "I hope someday He will use me", no, not at all. We can start RIGHT NOW trusting God that HE WILL GUIDE MY STEPS and then EVEN NOW He is DOING IT because He PROMISED He would.
That is, just as we remember the day when we trusted in Jesus for salvation, so also we should have a distinct day or time when we began to TRUST that God really meant it when He said that He would now "begin to guide our steps".
There IS no "I hope that God will use my one day for something good because my heart stands ready to obey Him". No. Only trusting in God's FACT that He WILL guide our steps will start it RIGHT NOW.
love, Eden
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
True belief in Jesus means that we believe in Him for who He is and what He has done, and it also means that our hearts stand ready to obey Him because of who He is and what He has done.
Surely He is worthy of our worship and submissive obedience!
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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