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Author
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Topic: Whats the difference?Romans3:30
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Hi, WildB, Matthew Henry wrote, in part quote:
... that the believer should be pardoned and justified for the sake of the Saviour, and that the unbeliever who is not thus united or related to him, should remain under condemnation. The law is still of use to convince us of what is past, and to direct us for the future. Though we cannot be saved by it as a covenant, yet we own and submit to it, as a rule in the hand of the Mediator.
Regarding the parts that I bolded, I do think that remembrance of the law has a useful function even for the Christian in the sense of "the law is what we do NOT want to go back to now that grace has come", and "remembrance of the past, of what was", IS one of the tools that the LORD uses to remind even us Christians, reminding us thereby to "stay in faith".
Now as to the second part that I bolded in the quote above, that the law could "direct us for the future", what did M. Henry, OR YOU, have in mind with that statement, please?
thanks, Eden the merchant of Chilmad who was NOT in the garden of Eden
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
WildB wrote: quote:
"Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."
oneinchrist
asked: quote:
Hi Wild B, I would have to say that you ask a difficult question.
I don't get it...what is the difficult question that WildB asked by posting that verse? Please explain...
Eden
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
great answer:thumbsup2: Daniel quote:
Hi Wild B,
Yes, upon further review I would agree that Pauls main objective was to elaborate on the truth that man is not justified "by the works of the law", but "through faith". In fact, when I referred to my old Kings James bible for help, I checked out the references that it made to a few other verses........and it lead me to one set of verses that emphasize that justification(for all nations) is "through faith"(not by the works of the law)
Wild B, I feel that one of the greatest concerns that people have when trying to understand the view that you hold is............what do you interpret Paul to mean when he talks about "the works of law?". You will undoubtedly receive resistance if you "bundle" the gospel teachings of Jesus into "the law".
--When I read Pauls writing I am assured that I cannot achieve the right to eternal life on the basis my good deeds........
and
--When I read the Gospels I am assured that I cannot be allowed in the Kingdom of Heaven if I ignore the voice of Jesus.
Wild B, it is my opinion that you have some degree of difficulty seeing how both of those above things can co-exist without contradicting each other. I dont know what else to say except that I think that a good solution(best of both worlds) to this dilemna would be both........
1.To be thankful(and continue to be thankful) for the sacrifice of God
and
2. To allow the words of Jesus(and continue to allow the words of Jesus) to change your heart and shape your thinking.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
Hebrews 11
Hbr 11:1
NOW faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hbr 11:2
For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
Hbr 11:3
By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
Hbr 11:4
By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
Hbr 11:5
By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, "and was not found, because God had taken him";[fn1] for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Hbr 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Hbr 11:7
By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Hbr 11:8
By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Hbr 11:9
By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise;
Hbr 11:10
for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Hbr 11:11
By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child[fn2] when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised.
Hbr 11:12
Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude--innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
Hbr 11:13
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them,[fn3] embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Hbr 11:14
For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland.
Hbr 11:15
And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return.
Hbr 11:16
But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
Hbr 11:17
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Hbr 11:18
of whom it was said, "In Isaac your seed shall be called,"[fn4]
Hbr 11:19
concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
Hbr 11:20
By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Hbr 11:21
By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.
Hbr 11:22
By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones.
Hbr 11:23
By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king's command.
Hbr 11:24
By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter,
Hbr 11:25
choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin,
Hbr 11:26
esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in[fn5] Egypt; for he looked to the reward.
Hbr 11:27
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible.
Hbr 11:28
By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Hbr 11:29
By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned.
Hbr 11:30
By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were encircled for seven days.
Hbr 11:31
By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.
Hbr 11:32
And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets:
Hbr 11:33
who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Hbr 11:34
quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
Hbr 11:35
Women received their dead raised to life again. Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection.
Hbr 11:36
Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment.
Hbr 11:37
They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted,[fn6] were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented--
Hbr 11:38
of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
Hbr 11:39
And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
Hbr 11:40
God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi Wild B,
Yes, upon further review I would agree that Pauls main objective was to elaborate on the truth that man is not justified "by the works of the law", but "through faith". In fact, when I referred to my old Kings James bible for help, I checked out the references that it made to a few other verses........and it lead me to one set of verses that emphasize that justification(for all nations) is "through faith"(not by the works of the law)
Wild B, I feel that one of the greatest concerns that people have when trying to understand the view that you hold is............what do you interpret Paul to mean when he talks about "the works of law?". You will undoubtedly receive resistance if you "bundle" the gospel teachings of Jesus into "the law".
--When I read Pauls writing I am assured that I cannot achieve the right to eternal life on the basis my good deeds........
and
--When I read the Gospels I am assured that I cannot be allowed in the Kingdom of Heaven if I ignore the voice of Jesus.
Wild B, it is my opinion that you have some degree of difficulty seeing how both of those above things can co-exist without contradicting each other. I dont know what else to say except that I think that a good solution(best of both worlds) to this dilemna would be both........
1.To be thankful(and continue to be thankful) for the sacrifice of God
and
2. To allow the words of Jesus(and continue to allow the words of Jesus) to change your heart and shape your thinking.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
This is by Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary on the Bible
Romans
3:27-31 God will have the great work of the justification and salvation of sinners carried on from first to last, so as to shut out boasting. Now, if we were saved by our own works, boasting would not be excluded. But the way of justification by faith for ever shuts out boasting. Yet believers are not left to be lawless; faith is a law, it is a working grace, wherever it is in truth. By faith, not in this matter an act of obedience, or a good work, but forming the relation between Christ and the sinner, which renders it proper that the believer should be pardoned and justified for the sake of the Saviour, and that the unbeliever who is not thus united or related to him, should remain under condemnation. The law is still of use to convince us of what is past, and to direct us for the future. Though we cannot be saved by it as a covenant, yet we own and submit to it, as a rule in the hand of the Mediator.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi Wild B,
I would have to say that you ask a difficult question. In Ephesians we find the verse.....By the grace of God are ye saved through faith.....and I think most Christians believe that has universal application.
For Paul then to claim that the circumcised(Jews) are justified by faith and the uncircumcised(Gentiles) are justified through faith would seem to contradict Ephesians verse that salvation is universally by grace THROUGH faith.
I can only provide you my opinion on this matter since it is confusing to me. I do not think that Paul is saying that there is one way for the Jew to be saved and another way for the Gentile. Why Paul used the different prepositions before the word faith has got me. I would like to hear others thoughts on this. I wish there were footnotes in my bible for that verse, but there isnt.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
"Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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