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Topic: Does God send evil angels?
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becauseHElives
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posted
Eden, I think of the following verses in he New Testament when I read your question..... Does God send evil angels?
2 Thessalonians 2 (Amplified Bible):
9The coming [of the lawless one, the antichrist] is through the activity and working of Satan and will be attended by great power and with all sorts of [pretended] miracles and signs and delusive marvels--[all of them] lying wonders--
10And by unlimited seduction to evil and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing (going to perdition) because they did not welcome the Truth but refused to love it that they might be saved.
11Therefore God sends upon them a misleading influence, a working of error and a strong delusion to make them believe what is false,
12In order that all may be judged and condemned who did not believe in [who refused to adhere to, trust in, and rely on] the Truth, but [instead] took pleasure in unrighteousness.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Eden
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Hi, sister Betty Louise, thanks for participating. You wrote quote:
Eden,
Here is his answer: "angels of destruction" is probably better translated from the Hebrew as "messengers of calamity" and most likely referred to the "fiery serpents" of Numbers 21:4-9. Hope this helps. ....Pastor
betty
Okay, that may work for "angels of destruction", but copy my post into your email to your pastor where I show that the Concordance definition shows it to cleary be "evil angels" or "wicked angels", and see what he says about that instead of about "angels of destruction", which, BTW, is from what translation, please?
I tend to agree with Hawkins, that God is always "hindering" or "preventing" the evil angels from "getting to us".
So when the Bible says that "God ... sent evil angels among them", that can simply mean, as Hawkins and I said, that God "withdraws His protection from them" and the "evil angels jump on them immediately".
My question here to Hawkins would be, "Does God also protect the UNbelievers from the evil angels" or "Does God only protect the saved humans from the evil angels"?
Thanks, Eden, the merchant of Chilmad
"Ezekiel 27:23
Haran, Canneh and Eden, the merchants of Sheba, Asshur and Chilmad, were your merchants."
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Betty Louise
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Eden,
Here is his answer
"angels of destruction" is probably better translated from the Hebrew as "messengers of calamity" and most likely referred to the "fiery serpents" of Numbers 21:4-9. Hope this helps. ....Pastor
betty
Num 21:4
Then they journeyed from Mount Hor by the Way of the Red Sea, to go around the land of Edom; and the soul of the people became very discouraged on the way.
Num 21:5
And the people spoke against God and against Moses: "Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and our soul loathes this worthless bread."
Num 21:6
So the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many of the people of Israel died.
Num 21:7
Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, "We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD and against you; pray to the LORD that He take away the serpents from us." So Moses prayed for the people.
Num 21:8
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live."
Num 21:9
So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Betty Louise
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Eden,
I haven't heard back yet from my Pastor but will get back to you as soon as I do.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
1Kgs.22
[23] Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
2Chr.18
[22] Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.
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That is all.....
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Hawkins
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In a sense of absolute sovereignty, then yes. What else do you think that His omnipotence hasn't stopped the evil angels.
He's protecting us from those evil angels all the times, so if He stops guarding you for a slide moment, those evil angels will jump on you right away. Perhaps this will happen in His wrath period.
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Eden
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Found in Him wrote to Eden quote:
I wonder if Aaron and Miriam felt the same way?
Felt the same way, as ...who...or ... as what?
As for Aaron and Miriam, they knew very well that God had chosen their brother Moses to be God's channel by which God spoke to Israel.
After all Aaron and Miriam had seen God do through Moses, they wanted "a larger piece of the action", saying, "Does God indeed speak only through you"?
Numbers 12
1 And Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Kushite woman whom he had married; for he had married a Kushite woman.
2 And they said, Has the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? Has He not spoken also by us? And the LORD heard it.
Found in Him, I know that now that we are in the church age, that God speaks thru me and God speaks thru you and indeed God speaks thru all of the Christians who make themselves available to God.
I am not at all saying that "God speaks only by me". Of course God speaks also through you. So I am not committing anything like the sin that Aaron and Miriam committed against Moses and against God.
So Found in Him, your question was quote:
I wonder if Aaron and Miriam felt the same way?
nite, Found in Him
Psalm 78:49
He cast upon them the fierceness of His anger, wrath and indignation and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
love, Eden
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Found in Him
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I wonder if Aaron and Miriam felt the same way?
I'm done.
Nite Eden
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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Found in Him wrote quote:
What is shameful are these endless posts that question His Holiness, Deity and Sovereignty.
I have definitely never met anyone like you before on a Christian bbs.
To assert that I question the Holiness and Deity and Sovereignty of the God of Israel, the Creator of heaven and earth, is absolute nonsense.
I am merely asking in a Topic what the Bible means when it writes:
Psalm 78:49
He cast upon them the fierceness of His anger, wrath and indignation and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
The Holy Spirit put that in the Bible and if a disciple or "student of the Bible", as an adopted son and daughter of God, does not understand "what that means", that son or daughter of God should be able to ask his or her Father in heaven what that means.
So Found in Him writes quote:
What is shameful are these endless posts that question His Holiness, Deity and Sovereignty.
Hello, how does asking what the meaning is of a Bible verse translate into "questioning His Holiness, Deity and Sovereignty"???
If that were the case, I might as well have been accused of "questioning His Holiness, Deity and Sovereignty" when I asked Him "to save me, a sinner!"
love, Eden
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Eden
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Found in Him wrote to Eden quote:
What He allows honestly is NONE of your or my business, or how He carries out anything.
What about Bible study then? Isn't that "God's Revealed Word to us"?
And if Jesus said, "Didn't you know that I must be about My Father's business", don't you think that WE ALSO must be "about Our Father's business"?
And does God not reveal His secrets to those who love Him?
Daniel 2:47
The king answered Daniel, Of a truth it is that your God is a God of gods and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing you could reveal this secret.
So Found in Him wrote quote:
What He allows honestly is NONE of your or my business, or how He carries out anything.
How is God going to guide me if He does not reveal to me how He wants me to carry the next thing out?
Of course God tells us stuff and He does not mind sharing it with His Beloved either.
love, Eden
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Found in Him
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Eden wrote...Wow...God is in the business of "sending evil angels among them"?
What He allows honestly is NONE of your or my business, or how He carries out anything. He is NOT a man that He should EVER give an account for what or how He does anything or allows anything! He drew boundary lines at Calvary and conquered the evil one-- That's every reason to praise Him and not question Him.
He has given us every reason and confidence to trust His righteousness and sovereignty without question. And there is every reason to fear and reverence Him.
What is shameful are these endless posts that question His Holiness, Deity and Sovereignty. It is wise to fear The Lord period. Below is an example of questioning Moses-- God's anointed. How much more should we not question Him and fear if we do?
12Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite. 2 "Has the LORD spoken only through Moses?" they asked. "Hasn't he also spoken through us?" And the LORD heard this.
3 (Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.)
4 At once the LORD said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, "Come out to the Tent of Meeting, all three of you." So the three of them came out. 5 Then the LORD came down in a pillar of cloud; he stood at the entrance to the Tent and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When both of them stepped forward, 6 he said, "Listen to my words:
"When a prophet of the LORD is among you,
I reveal myself to him in visions,
I speak to him in dreams.
7 But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.
8 With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the LORD.
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant Moses?"
9 The anger of the LORD burned against them, and he left them.
10 When the cloud lifted from above the Tent, there stood Miriam—leprous, like snow. Aaron turned toward her and saw that she had leprosy; 11and he said to Moses, "Please, my lord, do not hold against us the sin we have so foolishly committed. 12 Do not let her be like a stillborn infant coming from its mother's womb with its flesh half eaten away."
13 So Moses cried out to the LORD, "O God, please heal her!"
14 The LORD replied to Moses, "If her father had spit in her face, would she not have been in disgrace for seven days? Confine her outside the camp for seven days; after that she can be brought back."15 So Miriam was confined outside the camp for seven days, and the people did not move on till she was brought back.
16 After that, the people left Hazeroth and encamped in the Desert of Paran.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Found in Him
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Just one question then Eden, WHY ask such a thing about God? Why?
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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Found in Him wrote quote:
Eden, You should know me well enough by now to know that I can't stand a hint of slander being mentioned about Him.
Don't take offense.
I see. It is okay for you to take offense but not for me to take offense? How is that fair? LOL
Anyway, I don't think God wants you to take that much of an offense about "any hint of slander about Him". I mean, God loves it when we stand up for Him in a loving and confident manner, but I don't think that God wants us to fulfill this scripture, Found in Him:
John 16
1 These things have I spoken to you, that you should NOT be offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yes, the time comes that whosoever kills you will think that he does God a service.
3 And these things will they do to you, because they have not known the Father, nor Me.
Dear Found in Him, I am not questioning your love for the Father and His Son, but they do NOT want you to defend "Their Name" or "Their Doctrine" to the point of "killing someone with whom you disagree", as if you are "doing God a service".
God is WELL ABLE to defend Himself in this matter of His Doctrine and His Good Name, and, like the police officers who would prefer that you "do not chase a suspect with a gun onfoot", God also wants you to "not kill thinking you are doing God a service", in my opinion.
with love, Eden
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Found in Him
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quote:
Originally posted by Betty Louise:
FoundInHim,
No problem. I am honestly wondering what that verse means and I am looking forward to hearing what my Pastor says.
You have a great evening. I am fixing to head off to bed.
love,
betty
Ok Sweet one, Have a great peaceful night!
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Found in Him
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Eden,
But I wasn't addressing it to you ![[pound]](graemlins/pound.gif) jk
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Betty Louise
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FoundInHim,
No problem. I am honestly wondering what that verse means and I am looking forward to hearing what my Pastor says.
You have a great evening. I am fixing to head off to bed.
love,
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Eden
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Found in Him wrote quote:
I didn't mean to bud [b*u*t*t] in between you and Eden...
This is America in 2009: Anyone is free to write online whenever they want to write. That is never a problem with me. I'm a great believer in personal freedom. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
But I thank God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit that They have shown me some boundaries through the Holy Spirit talking to me and through readin the Word of God.
love, Eden
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Found in Him
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Hi Eden! You wrote...Oh God, there she goes again!
Eden, You should know me well enough by now to know that I can't stand a hint of slander being mentioned about Him.
Don't take offense.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Found in Him
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I am good Betty, had a great day! How about you? I didn't mean to bud in between you and Eden, I just know that we should praise Him always as Holy Because our God is so Holy and Worthy.
Barnes' Notes:
By sending evil angels among them - There is reference here undoubtedly to the slaying of the first-born in Egypt. Exodus 11:4-5; Exodus 12:29-30. This work is ascribed to the agency of a destroyer (Exodus 12:23; compare Hebrews 11:28), and the allusion seems to be to a destroying angel, or to an angel employed and commissioned to accomplish such a work. Compare II Samuel 24:16; II Kings 19:35. The idea here is not that the angel himself was evil or wicked, but that he was the messenger of evil or calamity; he was the instrument by which these afflictions were brought upon them.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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Found in Him wrote quote:
I can assure you that God's anger, justice, indignation and wrath are completely righteous and Holy. Be careful what you lay at The door of The Lord Eden.
Oh God, there she goes again! Found in Him, let's try this verse instead, shall we?
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace TO HELP in time of need.
Found in Him, when something is actually written in the Bible, in this case in the KJV, and we are not sure what it means, God wants us to search out what it means, does He not?
love, Eden
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Eden
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Betty Louise wrote quote:
I don't think he would send evil angels. I will email this to my Pastor and ask him just for a third opinion. That is interesting though. I don't remember reading that before.
When he gets back to me, I will let you know what he said.
Thank you, sister Betty Louise. I'll be interested in the answer myself. Be blessed.
Eden
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Betty Louise
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FoundInHim,
How are you tonight? I am tired but doing fine.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Found in Him
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I can assure you that God's anger, justice, indignation and wrath are completely righteous and Holy. Be careful what you lay at The door of The Lord Eden.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Betty Louise
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I don't think he would send evil angels. I will email this to my Pastor and ask him just for a third opinion. That is interesting though. I don't remember reading that before.
When he gets back to me, I will let you know what he said.
betty ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Eden
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Betty Louise, here are a few examples of "evil" as used in the Hebrew OT, from Strong's Concordance at www.eliyah.com:
Psa 54:5 He shall reward 7725 7725 evil 7451 unto mine enemies 8324 : cut them off 6789 in thy truth 571.
Psa 56:5 Every day 3117 they wrest 6087 my words 1697: all their thoughts 4284 [are] against me for evil 7451.
Psa 64:5 They encourage 2388 themselves [in] an
evil 7451 matter 1697: they commune 5608 of laying 2934 0 snares 4170 privily 2934 ; they say 559 , Who shall see 7200 them?
And here is OUR verse:
Psalm 78:49 He cast 7971 upon them the fierceness 2740 of his anger 639, wrath 5678, and indignation 2195, and trouble 6869, by sending 4917 evil 7451 angels 4397 [among them].
Strong's Concordance Hebrew:
evil 7451
7451 rarah, from 7489; bad or (as noun) evil (natural or moral):-- adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease(-ure), distress, evil((- favouredness), man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief(-vous), harm, heavy, hurt(-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief(-vous), misery, naught(-ty), noisome, + not please, sad(-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked(-ly, -ness, one), worse(-st), wretchedness, wrong. (Incl. feminine raaah; as adjective or noun.).
angels 4397
4397 mal'ak, from an unused root meaning "to despatch as a deputy"; a messenger; specifically, from God, i.e. an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher):--ambassador, angel, king, messenger.
So Betty Louise, you wrote[quote]Psa 78:49
He cast on them the fierceness of His anger,
Wrath, indignation, and trouble,
By sending angels of destruction among them.
Betty Louise, from what I have seen above from the Hebrew, it looks to me like these really WERE EVIL AMBASSADORS instead of "angels of destruction" sent by God? To me it looks like the KJV got it right.
love, Eden
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Betty Louise
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Psa 78:49 NKJV
He cast on them the fierceness of His anger,
Wrath, indignation, and trouble,
By sending angels of destruction among them.
Psa 78:49 NIV
He unleashed against them his hot anger,
his wrath, indignation and hostility—
a band of destroying angels.
Psa 78:49 New American Standard Bible
He sent upon them His burning anger, Fury and indignation and trouble, A band of destroying angels.
Psa 78:49 Revised Standard Version
He let loose on them his fierce anger, wrath, indignation, and distress, a company of destroying angels.
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Jude makes it clear that fallen angles are not demons but I will check on that.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Eden
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Betty Louise wrote quote:
The devil does have demons but he does not have access to fallen Angels.
Wait a minute. Demons ARE fallen angels, are they not? And if you say that "demosn are NOT fallen angels" can you document that?
The very word "daemon" comes FROM the word for "devil".
love, Eden
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Betty Louise
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Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
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Fallen Angels are not free to do any bidding. They are in everlasting chains. The devil does have demons but he does not have access to fallen Angels.
God would not use fallen Angels to do His bidding.
Just as during the tribulation Angels from Heaven will be used to pour out the bowls of wrath so were Heavenly angels used in this instance.
Hope this helps. Have a good night sleep.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Eden
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And your translation is from? Nor can I verify your reply bc my online Srong's Concordance is down. But I'll get back to you abou that.
Eden
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Betty Louise
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Eden,
This is a better translation.
Psa 78:49
He cast on them the fierceness of His anger,
Wrath, indignation, and trouble,
By sending angels of destruction among them.
God did not send evil angels but Angels from Heaven on a Mission to carry out God's command.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Eden
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Psalm 78:49
He cast upon them the fierceness of His anger, wrath and indignation and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
Wow...God is in the business of "sending evil angels among them"? Apparently God will use whatever is available.
But I was wondering, HOW does God send evil angels among them?
By just "withdrawing His protection" and "evil angels move into the vacuum" or is it a more deliberate "sending than that"?
love, Eden
"I'm so happy to see my beautiful avatar back"
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