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Topic: Food for Thought
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Eden
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yahsway wrote to Eden about Lord Jesus's Name being "Lord Clancy" in Papua New Guinea: quote:
lol Eden, Lord Clancy? Oh well, just as long as they know that He IS the King of kings and Lord of lords.
Actually "Lord Clancy" is highly unlikely for Papua New Guinea. I don't know any PGNese, but it would the Lord's Name would probably be more likely something like "Lord Oewoloketomato", than Lord Clancy.
love, Eden
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yahsway
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lol Eden, Lord Clancy? Oh well, just as long as they know that He IS the King of kings and Lord of lords.
Thank you Clyde, your explanation was excellent and appreciated.
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Betty Louise
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Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Jer 23:5
"Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD,
"That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
A King shall reign and prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
Jer 23:6
In His days Judah will be saved,
And Israel will dwell safely;
Now this is His name by which He will be called:
THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.[fn1]
Jhn 1:1
IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2
He was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
Col 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Tts 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Hbr 1:1
GOD, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
Hbr 1:2
has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
Hbr 1:3
who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself[fn1] purged our[fn2] sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
1Jo 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Eden
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In order for the Word of God to be understood by new people groups. the Word of God first has to be translated from Hebrew/Aramaic and from Greek into the language of the new people groups. Somebody who got saved in the jungle of Papua New Guinea maybe calls Lord Yeshua by the name Lord Clancy, or whatever.
And since the man in Papua New Guinea likely does NOT have access to higher education and to commentaries, "Lord Clancy" will have to do for him, and it will save him just fine, as long as he is referring to that "Bible person that the preacher told him about".
If anything, we in the West are hyperblessed to have access to that additional study material.
love, Eden
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Clyde Fultz III
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quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
I know that the OT was written in Hebrew. But I also know that the Hebrews call our God "One" as in the Shema.
So you are saying the word Elohim in Daniel means "mighty Ones"? and not necessarily "Mighty One"?
When I said, "It is with little debate that the pagan king Nebuchadnessar had any foreknowledge of the true Son of God. These being his own words, let us conclude that he meant, "a son of the gods", I meant that King Nebuchadnessar was a pagan worshiper. He did not worship the true God. This king believed that the gods had sons and daughters born on earth, as can be learned from studying Greek (etc) theology. If he was a pagan worshiper, how is it possible that he knew about the TRUE Son of God? If you will read verse 24, you will see that these are his words and not words affirming the deity of the Son. So what I do say is that he thought he saw a son of one of his gods.
quote:
Also, the other thing i want to say is that the angel of the Lord told Miriam that her child would be called "Yeshua" means "salvation"
Yah said in the OT that He would send His "right arm" a piece of Himself, Yahs salvation is Yeshua.
I dont have a problem with others using the Greek "Jesus" but people should not transliterate ones name. I kinda think if the angel of the Lord told Miriam that her child would be called "Jesus" she would have questioned that. Just my opinon.
When I say, "Jesus" what comes to my mind is "God is Salvation"(even that being a proper name). And when you say, "Yeshua", I am sure the same thing comes to mind for you, as I understand you saying. There are many names given to both God and the Word. Each name is spoken upon certain prayers or in different conversations. Example, "Lord God my Savior, came and save me." "Lord God Almighty, I fear your wonder." "Lord Jesus, you are my Mediator, I beg of you...." To limit ourselves to one or two names, is to limit God.
quote:
But getting back to Yeshua being Son of God while on earth and acting in that capacity, John the Baptist did question if He was the one or should we wait on another.
And of course Yeshuas reply told of all the miracles He was doing .
Yeshua came to complete the Torah. The Torah means teaching, instructions. He was this Word, as John said and the Word was with God and was God."
Here, I think you are talking about what Eden said. I know for certain that Jesus is the Son of God on earth, in Heaven, in Hell, and in eternity. He even acted the Son of God on earth, as He forgave sins, cured the sick, and proclaimed His Sonship.
quote:
The phrase "the Word was God" attributes Deity to the Word without defining all of the Godhead as "the Word
How TRUE.
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Eden
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Found in Him wrote quote:
I will continue to lift up and glorify The King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
And so will we. He IS King of kings and Lord of lords and He IS the Savior of the world. No doubt about that.
Eden
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Found in Him
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I will continue to lift up and glorify The King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
The spirit that denounces Christ's deity or seeks to degrade or belittle Jesus Christ IS the spirit of the anti-christ itself.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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Found in Him wrote quote:
Who is the one who seeks to steal from Jesus' Glory??
That's my question.
You are, by trying to be "Christlike", which is an impossibility. Only Jesus can be "Christlike" IN YOU on your behalf.
love, Eden
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Found in Him
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AMEN!
...and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.”
‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’” And he said to me, “These are true words of God.”
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Betty Louise
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I am looking forward to the day we as the Church come back from Heaven riding on white horses with our Kind of Kings and Lord of Lords.
There is no army that has even been led by a better General. Of course we will not have to fight the battle. Jesus will defeat Satan and his armies with the Words from His mouth.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Found in Him
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AMEN Betty,
To believe and see The King of the kingdom causes one to praise Him and lift His name on High!
The pharisees sought how they might "catch Him" in His word-'s!
“I am the Lord, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, nor My praise to graven images.”
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Betty Louise
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Rev 19:11
Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
Rev 19:12
His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[fn5] a name written that no one knew except Himself.
Rev 19:13
He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14
And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[fn6] followed Him on white horses.
Rev 19:15
Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[fn7] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16
And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
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When Jesus comes back in the Second Coming it will still be the glorified body of Jesus, but in His majesty and glory. He will still have the nail prints in his hands and feet.
Like my Pastor said, we will have perfect bodies in Heaven but Jesus will still have the scars on His body, a permanent testimony of the sacrifice He made for us.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Found in Him
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Who is the one who seeks to steal from Jesus' Glory??
That's my question.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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yahsway
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FoundInHim,
Maybe "A Piece" should have been better stated "A Part" kind of like my children are a part of me.
So The Fathers Son is also a Part of Himself.
For Is 59:16
He (Yah) saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor; Therefore, His, Yahs own arm brought salvation for Him.
Finding no human intercessor qualified to represent fallen Israel, Yah, The Lord, provides His own salvation. He clothes Himself in the armor of a soldier to deal with enemies and the unrepentent. Then He brings redemption to the penitent in Zion.
The section is messianic, referring to the salvation wrought by Yeshua the Messiah.
FoundInHim, and Who is the One at the end of the Millinnieal reign that Yeshua delivers up the Kingdom to?
1 Cor 15:28 Now when all things are made subject to Him (Yah, God the Father) the the Son Himself
(Yeshua)will also be subject to Him (Yah, the Father) who put all things under Him, that Yah may be all in all.
In other words, the goal of history and the consummation of the covenant will occur when the kingdom is delivered up to Yah(God the Father)when creation will be completely free of all dissident antilife forces. Once the redemptive task is completed, the saving mediatorial role that Yeshua assumed will be laid aside.
Also, for the record, I believe Yeshua while on earth, in the flesh was the Son of Yah and The Son of man. Just in case you havent been reading my post.
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Found in Him
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Hi Sweet Betty!
AMEN... HE IS HE ALONE that can redeem!!!
Jesus is KING OF KINGS Sister!
What Majesty and Glory belongs ALONE unto Him!
Is it ANY wonder that He is Exalted in ALL of Heaven and Earth??
...that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory....
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Betty Louise
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Jhn 8:24
"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
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Good Morning, Found In Him.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Found in Him
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Yahsway wrote...Yah said in the OT that He would send His "right arm" a piece of Himself, Yahs salvation is Yeshua.
This seems to be a picture of what the heart of the problem IS! The "right arm" is NOT a piece of God. God did NOT send a piece!
Jesus was GOD in the flesh. God WITH us.
"To make bare the arm" – was an expression used to denote preparation for active work, especially for war. The arm was an emblem of power. The loose sleeve of the Arab shirt, as well as outer garment was loose that the Right Arm could be bare in an instant, to bring their sword into play.
Isaiah 63:5," And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore MINE OWN ARM brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."
The Hebrew word for "Arm" in these verses is "Zer-o-ah" which means "the Arm stretched out". There is every indication in these verses that God was reaching out to a fallen humanity. His arm was stretched out to rescue people from their sins.
Psalm 98:1," O sing unto the Lord a new song; for he hath done marvelous things: His Right Hand, and His Holy Arm, hath gotten Him the Victory".
Who is that one that is spoken of in the book of Revelations with whom the church is going to rule the earth under during the millennial reign?
Those who love Him exalt Him!
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Betty Louise
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Col 2:6
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
Col 2:7
rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it[fn2] with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Col 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Col 2:10
and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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yahsway
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Thank you Clyde for your post. I have a few questions.
I know that the OT was written in Hebrew. But I also know that the Hebrews call our God "One" as in the Shema.
So you are saying the word Elohim in Daniel means "mighty Ones"? and not necessarily "Mighty One"?
There is much debate on the word Elohim so thats why i am asking.
Also, the other thing i want to say is that the angel of the Lord told Miriam that her child would be called "Yeshua" means "salvation"
Yah said in the OT that He would send His "right arm" a piece of Himself, Yahs salvation is Yeshua.
I dont have a problem with others using the Greek "Jesus" but people should not transliterate ones name. I kinda think if the angel of the Lord told Miriam that her child would be called "Jesus" she would have questioned that. Just my opinon.
But getting back to Yeshua being Son of God while on earth and acting in that capacity, John the Baptist did question if He was the one or should we wait on another.
And of course Yeshuas reply told of all the miracles He was doing .
Yeshua came to complete the Torah. The Torah means teaching, instructions. He was this Word, as John said and the Word was with God and was God.
The phrase "the Word was God" attributes Deity to the Word without defining all of the Godhead as "the Word"
Of course a lot of this is just how i read the scriptures but i am open to hear others as i love to search the scriptures and midrash with you guys.
Shalom
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Found in Him
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Eden...Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever more. I guess that's what we need to focus on right?
He said: I AM The Lord, I change not.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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Found in Him wrote quote:
You hit it on the head Betty...False religion!
I don't feel sorry for those folks, it makes me sick.
And I'm glad that we're not living in the days of feathering and tarring and burning on the stake anymore, aren't you?
love, Eden
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Found in Him
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quote:
Originally posted by Betty Louise:
There is a false religion that believes that Jesus was only a man and that the spirit of Christ came on Him at the age of 33 and left when He died.
This is a lie from the pit of hell. Jesus was God before He came to earth as a baby, the whole time He was on earth to the moment He died and rose again and He is still God.
betty
You hit it on the head Betty...False religion!
I don't feel sorry for those folks, it makes me sick.
The Joy of knowing Jesus Christ... WHO He is, is the center of our faith, heart, life and all hope of Heaven...
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Betty Louise
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There is a false religion that believes that Jesus was only a man and that the spirit of Christ came on Him at the age of 33 and left when He died.
This is a lie from the pit of hell. Jesus was God before He came to earth as a baby, the whole time He was on earth to the moment He died and rose again and He is still God.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Eden
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Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.
What is actually amazing to me about the above verses is that it says that WE are to have the SAME MIND IN US that was in Jesus, and then comes vv.6-7?
But anyway, I believe that Jesus was and is the Son of God, but that during His life He NEVER acted out His capacity as the Son of God but only came to be the Son of Man this first time around.
Philippians 2
7 ... and he was made in the likeness of men.
love, Eden
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Found in Him
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Yes it does disgust me Eden. I would be on my face prostrate before God pleading for forgiveness to have such thoughts enter my mind as what has been written in this post:
Denying the Deity of the Son of God is to Deny the Scripture...
Scripture is both Theo-centric and Christo-centric. It reveals to us God, specifically the God who came to earth and became man- in Jesus Christ.
There are many that deny the deity of Christ and have only His humanity to accept, they change the one who made the heavens and the earth, the one who was sent from heaven to become man to die for their sins, into a mere creature...
Limiting Him is no less than denying Him.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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Wow, Found in Him, there is no pleasing you sometimes...
I modified it to say that Jesus was the Son of God while on earth but that Jesus never acted out of that capacity, ever, while on earth. Does that still DISGUST you?
love, Eden
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Found in Him
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You know what Eden,
It is NOT, I repeat NOT debatable!
You are denying WHO He is!
THAT IS the Spirit of the anti-christ!
It DISGUSTS me!
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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Found in Him, please look at the post right about yours, how I am phrasing it there after what you guys said...
love, Eden
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Found in Him
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Hey Betty,
You know this question... What kind of a spirit Denies WHO Jesus is?
What kind of a spirit denies equality with The Father??
Scary ground you are standing on here folks!
John 5:23: “All must honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.” Do you withhold honor from the Son? Then you do so to the Father. To deny the same honor to the Jesus as you would the Father, is to deny honor to both.
Those who do not believe who He said He is, continue to pick up stones today though (not physically) because they cannot accept that Jesus said He was God in their own language and genre. They understood what He was claiming back then; today they ignore the Bible and do not care to understand His words. Surely the same people who deny His deity when faced with His claims will try to kill him and His representatives! In the end they will be part of those armies who will fight this one who is coming back, the only God revealed in human flesh at the Battle of Meggido, (known as Armageddon)!!!. Jesus said- you are either for me or against me. Today you have that choice....
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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Clyde Fultz III wrote quote:
Eden, if He was not the Son of God while on earth, would it had been possible for Jesus “to have not sin”? To say that He was not the Son of God is to say that He was not Emanuel. And to say that He was not Emanuel is to say that salvation never came. And to say that salvation never came is to say that He was not the Son of God in the flesh.
What say you?
After doing some thinking about this, I have modified my view to say that Jesus was the Son of God who NEVER ACTED as the Son of God while He was alive on earth, but always acted as a second sinless Adam only.
That is, Jesus WAS the Son of God but that He NEVER acted out of that capacity during His first advent; as such He was ALWAYS the Son of Man from earth birth to earth death. He WAS the Son of God but He did not use it this first time.
That sounds more correct to me.
love, Eden
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Eden
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Hi, Found in Him, you wrote quote:
Eden, He was GOD come in the flesh....
Yes He was, but He NEVER acted out of being the Son of God, He ALWAYS acted out of or as the Son of Man while He was on earth, because He had to be an identical first Adam BEFORE Adam sinned.
The first sinless Adam sinned (and that was Adam) but the second sinless Adam did not sin, and that was Jesus. So Jesus HAD TO BE BORN as the Son of Man and Jesus HAD TO DIE as the Son of Man.
Only after His resurrection did Jesus become the Only Begotton Son of God again, which He was BEFORE He became the sinless Son of Man.
love, Eden
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Betty Louise
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While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?” They said to Him, “ The Son of David.” He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying: “The LORD said to my Lord,“ Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”? If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?” And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.
David was acknowledging that Jesus was God even before Jesus was born a baby on earth.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
This is talking about the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. US is more then one.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Clyde Fultz III
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quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
Yeshua was always the Son of God. Proverbs 30:4
Who has ascended into heaven or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His SON'S name, If you know?
John 1:2 He (Yeshua) was in the beginning WITH God the Father.
Daniel 3:25
"Look!" he answered, "I see 4 men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the FORM of the 4th is like the SON of God."
Agur, in stating that he was brutish, was saying that he did not have the understanding of a man, that is, he was not what we call "scholastic". And neither did he learn wisdom, as a "wise man" would learn of the ways of God, that with such he should have (KJV: note that "nor" is inserted) learned the knowledge of the Holy One. His inquiry was, Tell me, "who has ascended up into Heaven," to learn the knowledge of God. "Who has descended" to bring back that knowledge. "Who", among us having learned this knowledge, "has gathered the wind in his first? Who has bound the waters in his garment? Who has established the ends of the earth? I want to know, "what is his name?" If he is dead, "...what is his son's name, if you know?" In "his son", his possessively refers back to "who". If "who" applies to God, then Agur would be saying that God ascended into Heaven and done these things. If "Who" applies to God, then these questions would not be questions, but exclamations.
As pertaining to John 1:2, Yeshua (Jesus (specifically the name)) was not in the beginning, but "the Word" was in the beginning with God (does not say, God the Father). And the Angel of the Lord (another name for "the Word") said, "... you shall call his name JESUS". God further says, "He shall be unto Me for a Son and I shall be unto for a Father." Notice the future tense. Let it be understood that I mean that Jesus is the Word who came in the flesh. Having been born of the Spirit, He became the Son of God, the Son of man. Under the New Testament, God is known as Father and the Word is known as the Son.
As to Daniel 3:25, please note that the original Hebrew for "god" in the passage is in the plural and would be rendered "gods". Also note that the definite article "the" is supplied and is not in the original. To imply this fourth man as being "the Son of God", would be saying, "the Son of the Gods". It is with little debate that the pagan king Nebuchadnessar had any foreknowledge of the true Son of God. These being his own words, let us conclude that he meant, "a son of the gods."
If I sound bossy in what I say, I am sorry. This is the way I speak. I mean no offense and I hope none is taken.
In His Love,
Clyde
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Clyde Fultz III
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quote:
Originally posted by Found in Him:
Hi Clyde!....Just one thing I wish to comment on what you said:
quote:
Before then, His main title was being “the Word” which spoke things into existence.
I disagree.
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word WAS God it says.
Sorry, I am a stickler on The Deity of Christ.
By all means, the WORD is God period
What I mean is that the second person of the Godhead, which in the Old Testament was the WORD, took upon Himself a new role. With that role as Emanuel, He received the name "Son". In as much as He received the name High Priest, Captain of our Salvation, the Lamb, etc...
Indeed, He is the Alpha and the Omega and I apologise for any misunderstanding.
In His Love,
Clyde
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Betty Louise
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The Holy Spirit was working in both of us my friend. What a great God we serve. He can quicken hearts at the same time all over this planet.
I love you ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Found in Him
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Let me tell you something Sister Betty...I was just in the other room and this same verse came to mind!
You are 100% right! It is dangerous!
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Betty Louise
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1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
This is scary. The Bible makes it clear to deny that Jesus was God in flesh is dangerous ground to walk on.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Found in Him
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Revelation 1:8, 17-18 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” ... [17] When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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yahsway
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Yeshua was always the Son of God. Proverbs 30:4
Who has ascended into heaven or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His SON'S name, If you know?
John 1:2 He (Yeshua) was in the beginning WITH God the Father.
Daniel 3:25
"Look!" he answered, "I see 4 men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the FORM of the 4th is like the SON of God."
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yahsway
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Matt 3:17
And suddenly a voice came from heaven saying "This is My beloved SON, in whom I am well pleased."
Matt 17:5
While he (Peter) was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved SON, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him."
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Found in Him
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Hi Clyde!....Just one thing I wish to comment on what you said:
quote:
Before then, His main title was being “the Word” which spoke things into existence.
I disagree.
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word WAS God it says.
Sorry, I am a stickler on The Deity of Christ.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Clyde Fultz III
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Hello Eden,
Look at it this way, “Although Jesus was the Son of God”, that is, having not been begotten by the seed of man, but by the seed implanted by the Spirit, by which means He was called, “the Son of God”, He, the man Jesus, learned to be obedient to the will of His Father through His sufferings. Being born in the flesh, He is not only called the Son of God, but also the Son of man. “The Son” is not an eternal title as “the Son” was begotten. This is a title which He received when He was born in the flesh. Before then, His main title was being “the Word” which spoke things into existence.
As pertaining to why Jesus came in the flesh, one would only have to understand that He came to fulfill what the Law could not do and that is to make us perfect, without blemish, before God. What Jesus did prove was that it would take grace and not obedience to complete the Law. As we all know, Jesus was not born with the sinful nature of man, therefore, His purpose was not to prove that it was possible to live perfectly in the flesh, but that He, through the flesh, could destroy the one who held such standards of the Law against us, namely the devil.
Eden, if He was not the Son of God while on earth, would it had been possible for Jesus “to have not sin”? To say that He was not the Son of God is to say that He was not Emanuel. And to say that He was not Emanuel is to say that salvation never came. And to say that salvation never came is to say that He was not the Son of God in the flesh.
What say you?
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Found in Him
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EDEN, YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!??!! TELL ME THAT YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS???????
Eden, He was GOD come in the flesh....
John 5:17-18 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.” For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 10:30-33 “I and the Father are one.” Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
Philippians 2:5-6 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.
Jesus did not hesitate to claim equality with God the Father. The Greek word for equal in John 5:18 is isos, as in an isosceles, or equal-sided, triangle. Jesus was and is “in very nature God,” and therefore was not blaspheming by claiming to be God. The disbelieving Jews had correctly heard Jesus to be making this claim to full deity, even though they rejected His claim.
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Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another...
Isaiah 48:11c I will not yield my glory to another.
John 17:5 [Jesus prayed] And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
In Isaiah, God says that He will not give away His glory to another. Yet Jesus, in John 17, is expecting to receive again the divine glory He shared with the Father before the world began. If Jesus were not deity, this would be a contradiction.
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Micah 5:2, But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Vs. 2b, His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity.
Jesus, whose earthly birth is prophesied here, is said to be “from of old, from everlasting,” or “from the days of eternity.” He is not a created being. Rather, He has existed from all eternity.
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Revelation 1:8, 17-18 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” ... [17] When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Revelation 22:12-13, 16 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.... [16] “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
Note the glorious titles of “the Alpha and the Omega,” “the Beginning and the End,” “the First and the Last,” “the Almighty,” “the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come.” Read all these titles of Deity, and note that every one in the context can be applied specifically to Jesus. This book is the revelation of Jesus the Divine Son!
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Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
Matthew 1:23 “The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”—which means, “God with us.”
Isaiah gave us this glorious prophecy of Jesus’ virgin birth. Matthew amplifies the prophecy by identifying this promised Son as “Immanuel — which means ‘God with us.’ ” Jesus is “GOD with us”! “A son”, yes. But also “God”!
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Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus, the prophesied son, “will be called...Mighty God.”
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John 20:27-28 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
The apostle Thomas correctly addressed Jesus as “My Lord and my God.”
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Psalms 45:6 Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
“Your throne, O God” — The Old Testament Hebrew word used here is Elohim, used for “God” well over a thousand times in the Bible. This exact scripture from the Psalm is quoted in Hebrews and is applied to Jesus the Son. Jesus is God! Not just “a god,” as some would have us believe. The New Testament Greek word for “God” that is specifically applied to Jesus in Hebrews 1:8 is Theos, used for “God” over 1,300 times in the New Testament.
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John 1:1, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.... [14] The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jesus is called “the Word”, the Logos, of God. As the Logos, He is the manifestation or expression of God to us, “the image of the invisible God” (Colossians 1:15). “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being” (Hebrews 1:3). He “came from the Father.” As the Logos, Jesus “the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
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Exodus 34:14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”
Hebrews 1:6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”
In Exodus God commands that He alone be worshiped. Jesus reiterated the commandment to worship God only. Yet God the Father’s command in Hebrews 1:6 that His angels worship the Son indicates that the Son too is God. If Jesus were not Deity, this would be idolatry.
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1 Timothy 3:16, King James Version And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
“GOD was manifest in the flesh,” clearly in context referring to Jesus.
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Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Hebrews 3:4 For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything.
Colossians 1:15-16 He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
John 1:1-3, 10 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.... [10] He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
The Bible speaks of both God the Father and Jesus being Creator of all. Jesus is divine, the Co-Creator!
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John 5:22-23 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
Jesus is to be given equal honor with the Father.
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Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
In His Great Commission baptismal command, Jesus said to baptize in the name (not “names”) of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There is a strong implication of coequality among Father, Son and Holy Spirit in this verse.
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Psalms 23:1 The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.
Ezekiel 34:31 You my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, are people, and I am your God, declares the Sovereign LORD.
John 10:14 I [Jesus] am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me.
Hebrews 13:20 ...our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep...
Often in the Old Testament God is referred to as the Shepherd of His flock, His people. Jesus said of Himself, “I am the good shepherd.”
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Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
“...God...His own blood”! The blood of Jesus Christ, shed for our redemption, is called God’s own blood. The blood of Deity, nothing less!
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Isaiah 8:13-14a The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread, and he will be a sanctuary; but for both houses of Israel he [the Lord Almighty] will be a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.
1 Peter 2:4, 7-8a As you come to him [Jesus], the living Stone — rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him — ...[7] Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone,” and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.”
It is evident that the “stone that causes men to stumble and [the] rock that makes them fall” of Isaiah and Peter are one and the same. The wording in the Old and New Testaments is identical. Peter knows Him as Jesus Christ; Isaiah calls Him “The Lord Almighty”! The name “the Lord Almighty” is used in the Bible, then, to identify both Jesus the Son and God the Father.
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Exodus 3:13-14 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?” God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
John 8:58-59 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
God identified Himself to Moses by the name “I AM”. Jesus identified Himself to the Jews as that very same “I AM”. The Jews knew exactly what He was claiming and sought to stone Him for such apparent blasphemy — that is, His (true!) claim to be the “I AM” who spoke to Moses.
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Isaiah 11:1-2 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him — the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.
Jeremiah 23:5-6 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land. In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness.
Jesus Christ is the Lord’s Branch from the line of David. Jeremiah prophesied that the name of this Branch would be “The Lord our Righteousness” — in Hebrew, JEHOVAH-TSIDKENU. The divine name JEHOVAH (some translate it Yahweh) is applied to Jesus Christ.
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Isaiah 40:3 A voice of one calling: “In the desert prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God.
Mark 1:1-3 The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God. It is written in Isaiah the prophet: “I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way” — “a voice of one calling in the desert, ‘Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.’”
Isaiah speaks of a messenger preparing the way for “our God”. Mark shows that Isaiah’s prophecy spoke of John the Baptist’s preparing for the coming of JESUS! Truly He is “our God”. It is small wonder that Thomas, beholding the resurrected Son, could cry, “My Lord and my God!”
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Hebrews 3:3-4 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything.
In verse 3 Jesus is the builder. In verse 4 God is the builder of all.
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Isaiah 48:12-13, 17 “Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last. My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together.... [17] This is what the LORD says — your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “I am the LORD your God....”
Revelation 1:17-18 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Jesus, the resurrected, ever-living Son of God, calls Himself “the First and the Last”, a title ascribed to “the Lord your God” in Isaiah.
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Titus 1:3-4 And at his appointed season he brought his word to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior. To Titus, my true son in our common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Note: “God our Savior” (vs. 3) and “Christ Jesus our Savior” (vs. 4). Jesus Christ is God; Jesus Christ is the Savior.
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A disclaimer seems to be in order here. I am not saying that Jesus Christ is the Father (He is not). I am asserting that Jesus is God AND that the Father is God. To pursue that line of thought any farther necessitates a study of the doctrine of the Trinity — a classic and valid truth of orthodox Christianity, but not the subject of this study. In this undertaking my mission is to affirm biblically the full deity of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Again, I am not saying that Jesus is the Father (He is not), but that Jesus is fully God (“true man and true God,” as the early Christians declared) and thereby coequal and coeternal with God the Father.
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Mark 2:5, 7 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” ... [7] “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
Jesus possessed personally the authority to forgive sins, an authority that belongs uniquely to God.
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Isaiah 43:12b, 14-15 “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “that I am God.... [14] This is what the LORD says — your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “For your sake I will send to Babylon and bring down as fugitives all the Babylonians, in the ships in which they took pride. I am the LORD, your Holy One, Israel’s Creator, your King.”
Hosea 11:9b For I am God, and not man — the Holy One among you. I will not come in wrath.
Mark 1:24 “What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are — the Holy One of God!”
Acts 3:14-15 You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you. You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.
“The Holy One”, a title applied often to Jehovah (or Yahweh) God, is specifically applied in the New Testament to Jesus Christ.
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Deuteronomy 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome...
1 Timothy 6:15 ...which God will bring about in his own time — God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords.
Revelation 17:14 They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings — and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
Jesus is called “Lord of lords” and “King of kings” — titles ascribed elsewhere in Scripture to God.
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Isaiah 45:22-23 Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
Philippians 2:10-11 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
In the act of bowing the knee to and confessing Jesus, we are worshiping God, for He has said, “Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.”
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Deuteronomy 32:3-4 I will proclaim the name of the LORD. Oh, praise the greatness of our God! He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
1 Corinthians 10:1, 4 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea ... [4] and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
“Our God...the Rock”, of whom Moses wrote, is said by the apostle Paul to be Jesus. A related truth clearly reinforced by Paul’s statement is the preexistence of Christ prior to His earthly incarnation.
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John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
Jesus the Son possesses the same life-giving power that God the Father has.
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Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls
Acts 4:10-12 Then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.... [12] Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
Joel exhorts us to call upon the divine name — the Lord (Hebrew = Jehovah, or Yahweh) — for salvation. Peter quotes this exact verse (Acts 2:21) and tells us (Acts 4:12) that salvation is found in the name of Jesus Christ. The apostle Paul similarly urges that “every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:11).
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Luke 8:38-39 The man from whom the demons had gone out begged to go with him, but Jesus sent him away, saying, “Return home and tell how much God has done for you.” So the man went away and told all over town how much Jesus had done for him.”
Jesus identified His ministry to the formerly demon-possessed man as “what God [had] done for [him]”.
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Hebrews 7:1, 3 This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him.... [3] Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.
Melchizedek, who appeared to Abraham in Genesis 14, is a “Christophany,” an appearance of a being representing Christ. The writer to the Hebrews in chapter seven makes this same association. And of this remarkable being who is “like the Son of God,” the author declares that He is “without beginning of days or end of life.” This is another powerful declaration of the eternal preexistence of Jesus Christ — a trait only applicable to a fully Divine Being. None short of Deity can claim eternal existence both past and future.
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1 John 5:20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true — even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
“...Jesus Christ. He is the true God.” As forthright a declaration of Jesus’ divinity as one could desire!
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Titus 2:13 ...while we wait for the blessed hope — the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
The apostle Paul recognized Jesus as “our great God and Savior”!
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2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
The apostle Peter, too, an earthly companion and disciple of the Son of God, fully understood the identity of “our God and Savior Jesus Christ”.
Romans 9:5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
“Christ, who IS GOD over all”!
DO YOU NEED MORE???
I have more if you need it. I'm serious, I do!
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009
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Eden
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Found in Him wrote: quote:
Food for thought:
Although Jesus was the Son [of God], he learned to be obedient through his sufferings. (Heb 5:8)
I thought that WHILE ON EARTH as born from Mary, that Jesus was ONLY THE SON OF MAN, and Jesus was NEVER the Son of God as Jesus was the Son of God IN HEAVEN prior to being born in Mary as THE SON OF MAN.
And Jesus had to be the SON OF MAN instead of the SON OF GOD this first time because JESUS HAD TO DUPLICATE WHAT ADAM WAS, so that Jesus could PROVE that it WAS possible to HAVE A BODY LIKE ADAM and remain faithful and sinless, as Jesus proved.
Found in Him had written: quote:
Although Jesus was the Son [of God], he learned to be obedient through his sufferings. (Heb 5:8)
I think that during Jesus's first advent on earth, Jesus was NEVER the SON OF GOD but Jesus ALWAYS HAD TO BE THE SON OF MAN until He died.
love, Eden
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