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Author
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Topic: Baptism and the Great Commission
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi BecauseHElives,
I would agree with your friend. I am disappointed that more often than not, in baptism, you hear a reference made to the fact that the water does not have the power to wash away sins , but you dont always hear a counterbalance with the declaration that it is by the Name of Jesus and faith in His Name that we receive forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I am also disappointed that there isnt always some sort of question asked by the baptizer that confirms the baptizees readiness to follow Christ and be His disciple.............especially considering that the Holy Ghost is only given to those who say "yes"(and of course really mean "yes") to Jesus' call of discipleship.....also this way it can be made more clear whether or not the new believers faith is more than a mental assent to the truth.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596
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posted
I'm prayin about this. We'll see what happens with prayer and asking Him to lead in witnessing...
I'm use to working with children. This is a lil different.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009
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bluefrog
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posted
Nothin wrong with that. It will be time to celebrate.
Don't know if you have done much of this or not.
Once you explain the confessing with the mouth, which is very important, and the other prayer issues most will want to go to a private place and offer themselves. When they (if they) do so and let you know, then celebrate. Ya can't count on that much either. You may never see them again. If you do they will probably thank you.
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Found in Him
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Member # 7596
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posted
bluefrog... it was the "dunked in water" that I was picking on you for. I did giggle when I read that statement.
I am gonna add that to my witness script. Once they confess Jesus as their Lord I'm gonna say "now let's go get you dunked in water!"
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009
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bluefrog
unregistered
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posted
I thought that was what I said. But thanks for your response.
I went back and read it again, and I did say that.
So, There ! ![[wiggle7]](graemlins/wiggle7.gif)
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Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596
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posted
bluefrog!...It meant a lil more than that to me. To me it was following The Lord's instruction and an open display before the church and world that I believed Christ died for me personally and rose again for my justification. In this also it is significant to the "born-again" experience-- dead to old man--alive to the new. It was obedience to the word, The Lord and an act, action of my faith.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009
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bluefrog
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posted
It is such a joy to see the simplicity in God's word and then along comes man and says "But what does "IS" mean ?" or But that says.....and it means this so your stupid". Sometimes it goes that way. Sometimes more research is necessary.
Back before John the Baptist, maybe before Abraham, to baptise "baptizo" simply meant to dunk or wash something in water and could mean dyeing in a color to cloth. To clean yourself in water.
When Christians speak of baptising they are talking about doing the same thing that Jesus did. He was dunked in water to show His trust in the Father. A public display or witnessing of being cleansed and a testimoney of His Love for the Lord. It is the seal for all to see that he is now a member of the family of God.
Being the final seal is why it is said: I baptise you in the name of the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit.
But there is something much more important that took place to arrive at this point. Some feel that they must walk down the isle in church and tell the pastor they want saved and let him pray over them and fill out a card. Phooey ! That may look good in church but it doesn't in your heart. It isn't what God wants either. We can't say it doesn't work but it may take years before they realize what they did and some even start all over again. Confusion and Insecurity.
Jesus wants you to go to Him being aware of the cost of being a Christian. He wants you to speak with Him with your mouth and Repent of your sins, all you can remember, and prepare to come into the Kingdom clean and forgiven by Jesus. A quiet place, on your knees and in humility pour out your heart to Him. (Things you don't do in public out loud). Put your trust in Him and Thank Him for what He has done for you.
Ask forgiveness and to be a part of the family of God. Move from darkness to light spiritually.
Once you have done this then walk up the isle and tell the pastor what you have done and ask to be baptised. This will show your fellow church members what you have done and it will mark in your mind your act of faith. All in heaven will rejoice. Amen
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
the dearest brother in Christ I have ever had once said...
"it is not the special words or phrase someone uses to say over someone when they are baptized but it is the authority of the name that is important, the name above every name in Heaven and earth , the name at which one day every knee will bow, the Name Yahshua !
quote:
What do you think?
I think formulas stink.....
I think Yahshua is everything.....
if I understand by immersion or sprinkling, I have been brought into union with Yahshua and His Church, made to be one with Him in every way by the authority of His name and not some denomination.... then I truly understand ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hello Wild B,
Wild B, I ask for you to respect me and the freedom that I have to choose to study the bible in the particular manner that I desire.........comparing scripture with scripture. I respectfully disagree with the method(dispensational) that you apply to your study of scripture........... I will not continue to come and attack your posts anymore. Please give me the same respect. By now, we both know very well that we have differences in the way that we view the scriptures.......and that they are such big differences that we would spend more time disagreeing than agreeing on things. Lets both stop our silliness.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Good Morning Eden,
My friend in the Lord, I agree much with what you are saying. In fact, I believe that many of us on this site use different language to express the same idea, thought, or concept. There are churches divided over this issue and I had wondered if the scriptures give us any indication of what exactly is goin on. I prayed over this and got no answer, so I am led to believe a few things........For one, it is not deemed urgent by God for me to know anything other then what is stated in the Word, and secondly as you say, maybe it is one of those things that simply doesnt matter so long as the overall truth is understood..........For ex:Weve been on this site for a while and there are some who use different names for God and Jesus, but we understand, by the time we have spent together, that they are speaking about the same God we know from the bible.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Found in Him wrote quote:
I wanted someone else to answer cause I'm tired of being dog piled today...
Always keep your scoop handy.
oneinchrist, this Topic reminded me of the Old Testament in Hebrew/Aramaic and how around 250 B.C. (or thereabouts) the Hebrew/Aramaic Old Testament was translated into the so-called Septuagint Greek Old Testament (the LXX).
And how, Jesus and Paul and all those fellows used the Septuagint Greek Old Testament (the LXX) most of the time.
Indeed, a careful reader of some of the Old Testament quotes made by Paul and others could make the reader wonder "where they got that stuff from" when that is compared to what we have in the Hebrew/Aramaic Old Testament in the KJV.
The text in the Greek LXX OT can be quite different from tht text in the Hebrew/Aramaic OT, and yet it is the text that even Jesus, as well as Paul and others of their time used.
So my point is, oneinchrist, that the Holy Spirit allows for some considerable flexibility in the way we, the vessels, like Peter, end up expressing the intents and purposes of the Holy Spirit, with the goal being, as far as God is concerned, that all of it will eventually lead to where God intends it to lead and nowhere else.
But in the meantime, a considerable latitude to "express the way to get there", as also demonstrated by the LXX version of the Hebrew/Aramaic OT, could be allowed.
To put it in modern terms, the goal is that someone gets saved, but by what exact words or phrases that person got saved, doesn't really matter.
love, Eden
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
THE DISPENSATIONAL PLACE
OF MIRACULOUS SIGNS AND
WATER BAPTISM
The truths which we have been considering vitally affect our practice as members of the body of Christ and our service for Him, for if we do not clearly understand God's message and program for the present dispensation, how can we serve Him effectively?
The prevailing confusion in the church is largely due to ignorance and even indifference as to these matters. How many of God's people today are trying zealously to serve Him, without first finding out exactly what it is He wishes them to do! Hence, even among those who sincerely trust in Christ as Savior, many are still striving vainly to establish His kingdom on earth, while others seek for some or all of the miraculous powers of Pentecost and all together insist on practicing the ordinance of water baptism, though unable to agree as to who should be baptized, or how, or why.
Miraculous signs and baptism deserve exhaustive treatment in separate volumes, but we must deal with them briefly here because of their relation to the whole dispensational problem.
It cannot be denied that miraculous demonstrations abounded during our Lord's earthly ministry and the period covered by the book of Acts. Neither can it be denied that such demonstrations abounded among Gentile members of the body of Christ before the close of the Acts period.
Some hold that all true believers today do possess the miraculous powers of Pentecost, since our Lord, in His "great commission," explicitly said: "And these signs shall follow them that believe . . ." (Mark 16:17,18). Others believe that certain people are granted the power to work miracles, especialy miracles of healing. Notwithstanding these claims, however, God is not bestowing miraculous powers upon men today. If the "great commission" with its Pentecostal signs were indeed being carried out today there would be no question about miracles, for saved and unsaved alike were compelled to acknowledge the mighty miracles of the Pentecostal era1 (Acts 3:11, 4:14,16, etc.). As to alleged evidence of the supernatural powers of present day Pentecostalist "healers": the Roman Church, the Unity movement, Christian Scientists, and others who claim healing powers can present "evidences" fully as convincing. Are their powers, then, also God-given?
WATER BAPTISM
Water baptism and miraculous signs both belong to the so-called "great commission" (Matt. 28:19, Mark 16:16-18, Acts 1:8), yet, strangely, many pastors who would excommunicate any of their members for speaking in tongues or seeking to perform miracles, nevertheless cling tenaciously to the practice of water baptism. Surely it would seem that if the "great commission" is for our obedience today, the Pentecostalists are more consistent than the great majority of their Fundamentalist brethren in this matter. Here, then, let us point out briefly the dispensational significance of water baptism and the glory of the "one baptism" of the present dispensation.
In all the division and confusion which has prevailed in the church over the subject of baptism, the primary question at issue has been almost completely overlooked. That question is not whether water baptism is found in the Scriptures, nor who should be baptized, nor how. The first question which concerns us is: should we practice water baptism now? Is it included in God's program for the present dispensation?2
If, instead of becoming wrought up over secondary questions, the spiritual leaders of the past centuries had first asked themselves this basic question, much discord and heartache could have been avoided.
WATER BAPTISM AND THE
MESSIANIC KINGDOM
We have already seen that the opening message of the New Testament Scriptures is "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matt. 3:2). This message was first proclaimed to Israel by John the Baptist and was later taken up by our Lord (Matt. 4:17) and His twelve apostles (Matt. 10:5-7). The proclamation of this message and its results are what the "Four Gospels" record.
The fact that this kingdom was now proclaimed "at hand" indicates that it had been predicted and expected, and so it had.
Under the Old Covenant God had promised:
"Now therefore, if ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people: for all the earth is Mine:
"And ye shall be unto Me A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS, and AN HOLY NATION. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel" (Ex. 19:5,6).
Until they did obey God's voice indeed, only certain people in Israel were set apart as priests, but in connection with the coming of Messiah and the conversion of all Israel, God later promised that they would indeed become a whole nation of priests through whom the Gentiles should approach God:
"BUT YE SHALL BE NAMED THE PRIESTS OF THE LORD: MEN SHALL CALL YOU THE MINISTERS OF OUR GOD . . ." (Isa. 61:6).
The first rite to be performed at the induction of the priest into his office was his washing with water (Ex. 29:4). This spoke of his need of cleansing before approaching the presence of God. Hence, as John proclaimed the kingdom at hand, in which all Israel should stand before God as priests, he demanded repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4).3
That John's baptism was associated with the manifestation of Christ to Israel cannot be denied, for John himself said:
"AND I KNEW HIM NOT: BUT THAT HE SHOULD BE MADE MANIFEST TO ISRAEL, THEREFORE AM I COME BAPTIZING WITH WATER" (John 1:31).
Mark well, John baptized the people "for the remission of sins." Nor was this changed after the resurrection of Christ, for at Pentecost Peter offered Christ's return and the times of refreshing to Israel, again calling upon them to "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38).4 This was in strict obedience to the commission given to him by the risen Lord, in which it was expressly stated that "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:16).5
As with miraculous signs, the departure from this program came with Israel's rejection of her risen Messiah and the raising up of Paul to proclaim the gospel of the grace of God. And, like miraculous signs, this part of the program was not discontinued all at once. Even after the raising up of Paul God still continued for some time to stretch forth His hands to a disobedient and gainsaying people (Rom. 10:21). The departure, however, did not begin until after Saul's conversion. Then Peter was sent to the first Gentile family only to have his sermon interrupted while, to the astonishment of His companions, these Gentiles were saved and received the Holy Spirit apart from water baptism (Acts 10:44-46). True Peter then baptized them (Acts 10:47) to keep the books straight, as it were, but the departure from the program of the "great commission" is clear. The practice of water baptism continued for some time after this, while Christ was still being made manifest to Israel.
PAUL AND THE "ONE BAPTISM"
But in the ministry of Paul, with which the rest of Acts is concerned, water baptism is never required for the remission of sins. Obviously, then, another commission was replacing that given to the eleven before our Lord's ascension.
It is significant that while Paul did baptize some,6 and mentions this in his first letter to the Corinthians, he states that he is glad he has baptized so few of them, adding:
"FOR CHRIST SENT ME NOT TO BAPTIZE, BUT TO PREACH THE GOSPEL: NOT WITH WISDOM OF WORDS, LEST THE CROSS OF CHRIST SHOULD BE MADE OF NONE EFFECT.
"FOR THE PREACHING OF THE CROSS IS TO THEM THAT PERISH FOOLISHNESS; BUT UNTO US WHICH ARE SAVED IT IS THE POWER OF GOD" (I Cor. 1:17,18).
It is also significant that Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles and minister of the body of Christ NEVER ONCE, IN ANY OF HIS LETTERS, COMMANDS OR EVEN EXHORTS US TO BE BAPTIZED WITH WATER.
In his later letters, written after the setting aside of Israel, he states emphatically that there is now but "ONE BAPTISM" (Eph. 4:5). This baptism is the operation of the Holy Spirit whereby believers are made one with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection (Rom. 6:3-4, Gal. 3:26,27, Col. 2:9-12), and so are also made members of "one body," the "body of Christ" (I Cor. 12:13,27, Gal. 3:26-28).
If believers, especially spiritual leaders, better understood the "one baptism" by which the "one Spirit" baptizes us into "one body," our unity in Christ would be more fully enjoyed. Indeed, we are exhorted to endeavor to "keep" or observe the unity that the Spirit has made, remembering that there is but "one body . . . one Spirit . . . one hope . . . one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father . . ." (Eph. 4:3-6).
One thing is certain: the student who is willing to put aside preconceived notions and human traditions, and search the Scriptures concerning this "one baptism" with an open mind, sits down to a veritable feast of spiritual good things.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Found in Him
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Member # 7596
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posted
Hey Daniel,
I wanted someone else to answer cause I'm tired of being dog piled today just kidding!
I personally believe that Peter would have baptized in the Name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit because that was Christ's command.
I believe while looking at the scripture in Acts 2 that we see he was still preaching to the folks in Jesus' name.. which is the name given for our salvation. It says in vs 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized at that point.
So yes, I agree with you on consideration 2
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hello to my sister in the Lord,
I am a little confused about your answer. Are you agreeing with any of my considerations or are you disagreeing completely and giving your reason why?? Me confused
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596
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posted
Hi Daniel!
I have two other things to consider...
1. Jesus first of all told them to go baptize them in the 'name' (singular) of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. For God is (1) God.
2. Father God gave Jesus "The Name" that is above all names.
**Salvation comes through no other name than Jesus... Acts 4
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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oneinchrist
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Member # 6532
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posted
Mark 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
I have been comparing these above passages of scripture in an effort to understand why Peter seems to veer off in a direction not specifically commanded by Jesus. In the above verse taken from the gospel of Mark, Jesus relates baptism to salvation, and in Matthew we see that Jesus gives more specifics pertaining to baptism---that it be done in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. But then when we get to the book of Acts, we see that Peter calls for baptism, but he does a little change up...........or does he??
That is my question. I have considered this dilemma from a few angles.
1st consideration--That God the Father and the Holy Ghost desired that the Name of Jesus Christ be glorified first and foremost in baptism. So Peter then would have received an unction from the Holy Ghost to change the emphasis.
2nd consideration--That Peter made the proclamation with emphasis on Jesus---but still baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.....
3rd consideration--Perhaps Peter did both(combined)For ex: Baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit.
What do you think?
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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