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Topic: The Holy Spirit
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bluefrog
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posted
BecauseHeLives...I would suggest that you change horses. It looks like the one you are riding is about to give up. I remember that in the past when you forced a horse to overdo it's physical capabilities it had the heart to go to death do you part. (That was the past)
My grandpappy told me about this man called Jesus who gave His life over two thousand years ago to save my sorry soul. (That was past)
I also heard that God made the heavens and earth and everything on and in it. (That was the past)
God is responsible for making available His Word, His Law, His Commandments, His Wrath, and Everything Else. (That was the past)
Our faith is currently active in our hearts but it has been in the past also.
Faith is believing in the past and the future but I fail to see how faith is based on just today. Obama may object to this senereo but I fail to have faith in him today.
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becauseHElives
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posted
historical facts are all well and good....
Yahweh says to study them, teach them to your children,meditate on the things He has done day and night but faith is not found in your yesterday achievement or the achievements of others in time past.....
faith that saves is always in the present...
little David had killed the lion and the bear and He had done those thing because of His love for the God of Israel, because of the great stories he had heard as a boy.....
but David did not kill Goliath on the manna of yesterday.....David had a fresh revelation from the Holy Spirit as He heard the Philistines cry out against the army of Yahweh.....
Yahweh is the same yesterday, today, tomorrow throughout eternity but faith is always in the now.....
yesterdays acts of faith are to encourage those that follow ....
but faith that saves is not in what you heard testerday or did yesterday.....
faith that saves is what you are hearing today, what are you doing today.....
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Eden
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posted
becauseHElives wrote quote:
Faith never comes from “having heard”.
Faith always comes from hearing (Romans 10:17).
The nature of faith implies we are living a life with the Father that is up to date, current, in the now. What we hear from Him we are hearing now.
Faith is not based on what God has said but on what God is saying and what God is doing-NOW!
I agree with Found in Him that the above is not true. God oftentimes says in the Old Testament, "Remember so and so" and "Remember this and that".
Deuteronomy 7:18
You shall not be afraid of them: but shall well remember what the LORD your God did to Pharaoh and to all Egypt;
Faith needs to hang its hat on something, and it hangs its hat on historical facts that God has ALREADY done, and then, I'll grant you, also in the NOW my faith is hanging its hat on facts that God is doing in my life NOW--God IS a Living God and DOING GREAT THINGS NOW. But it's BOTH--Faith in what God said and did BACK THEN and faith in what I see God doing in my life NOW.
love, Eden
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bluefrog
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posted
Sounds just ducky to me.
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Found in Him
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posted
i noed my jesus is my Father's Glory! i will lift Him up!
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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bluefrog
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posted
![[hyper]](graemlins/hyper.gif) You Happy Me Happy
Yes I know the talk was about co-equal. I just thought it interesting that my dictionary started off saying that. That's all.
I wasn't calling you a religious nut. That was my funny for the day. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Found in Him
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posted
bluefrog....I'm not a nut cause I read the bible and see that we are to acknowledge God The Father, The Son and Holy Spirit. I'm a nut if I try to split the Godhead apart!
One God! I got Jesus to thank for any knowledge at all of God right? Happy is me ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Found in Him
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posted
The question was co-equal. The word of God has made it clear that Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, and God the Father are one. One God. Co-equal in a perfect Godhead.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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bluefrog
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posted
Me, with a memory like a flat tire; you can't get too far without airing up again, love my reference books that pull scriptures together.
I went to my trusty Revell Bible Dictionary to see what it had to say about the trinity.
"Trinity-The doctrine that God exists as three co-equal Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This cardinal belief developed in the early church through three centuries of struggle against various heresies and was formulated by the First Council of Constantinople in A.D. 381.
Etc,Etc. (sound familiar BecauseHeLives?)
Deut. 6:4,5 v4) Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: v5) And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Note: Here the word "one" is ehad which is used of a single bunch of grapes that is divisible into distinguishable individual grapes, rather than yahid, which means uniquely one. The Hebrew word for God, elohim, is a plural noun, generally taken as a plural majesty.
Jer 22:5,6 v5)Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgement and justice in the earth.
v6) In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safetly; and this is His name whereby He shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod (a sprout) out of the stem (stump)of Jesse, and a Branch (Shoot or Scion) shall grow out of his roots;
Guess what? My grandpappy said that long as he can remember no one can figure how one God can be three persons. Some say it's like an egg; where it's one with three parts...the shell the white, and yolk. Then the guy on the water board says it's like water; liquid, vapor and ice. But my grandpappy says it's gooder to go by the scriptures saying that our one God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God tells us that any other figurin we have to say about it is jist foolishness.
God loves everyone, but probably prefers "fruits of the spirit" over "religious nuts!"
rivit
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yahsway
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posted
BecauseHeLives is correct. What i think most believers in Yeshua forget is that Yeshua is the Way Back to the Father.
In 1st Corinthians 15:24 we read this:
Then comes the end, when He (Jesus) delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all Authority and power.
verse 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, Then the Son HIMSELF will ALSO be Subject to Him (God the Father) who put all things under Him (Jesus), that God the Father may be all in all.
God the Father has the Authority in the relationship to give Yeshua all. Because its Thru Yeshua and His work on the cross, that brings you and me back into relationship with God the Father.
In fact, even when I read the scriptures, i find no one Praying to Yeshua but asking that their prayers be heard in His name. We pray to God the Father.
I find no one in scripture who prays to the Holy Spirit, but that the Spirit helps us in our prayers when we dont know how or what to pray.
Yeshua did the work that the Father sent Him to do. The Holy Spirit is doing the work now that the Father sent Him to do.
John 14 :27
Yeshua said this:
" You have heard me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you'. If you loved me, you would rejoice because I said 'I am going to the Father', for My Father is GREATER than I."
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Found in Him
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becausehelives wrote....Faith is not based on what God has said but on what God is saying and what God is doing-NOW!....
That statement is not true. He said: I the Lord Change not. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." God is timeless.
The Father is pleased as the word says that all fullness dwells in the Son... That's how it stands. He is The Lamb of God slain BEFORE the foundation of the world.
All the fullness of The Godhead...
Colossians 2
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
ALL that the Father has is mine...
“He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 “All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
It pleased The Father that Christ have preeminence....
Colossians 1
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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becauseHElives
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posted
my wife doesn't think it robbery to be my equal but it does not change the fact I am the head in the relationship....
likewise Yahshua doesn't think it robbery to be equal with the Father....
How could the Father give everything to the Son unless He was the Authority in the relationship....
Matthew 28
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, ALL AUTHORITY in heaven AND on earth has been given to me.
Who does it say gave Jesus "ALL AUTHORITY"
and yet having "ALL AUTHORITY" Jesus would not do anything except saw the Father do it first....
Faith never comes from “having heard”.
Faith always comes from hearing (Romans 10:17).
The nature of faith implies we are living a life with the Father that is up to date, current, in the now. What we hear from Him we are hearing now.
Faith is not based on what God has said but on what God is saying and what God is doing-NOW!
This is the office of the Holy Spirit ....
to keep the Church in the NOW... hearing from The Heavenly Father moment by moment... leading and guiding into all Truth.....
The Father sits on the Throne , the Son is seated at His right hand....
even King Author's round table all were equal, but the king was the king
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Found in Him
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posted
All we have is what the word of God has supplied.
Philippians 2 : 6-11
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Jesus, who thought It was not robbery to be equal?
If they are not co-equal then why does the word of God say it?
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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becauseHElives
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posted
Found in Him , I totally agree.... quote:
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost and these three are one."
they are one, no disagreement...
it is only the term co-equal I disagree with....
Spiritual things are again as I said in another post impossible for our little brains to comprehend...only with the help of the Holy Spirit can Spiritual thing be understood....
As the Father, Son and Spirit are one, so likewise
are a husband and a wife one but as scripture compares the two... scripture show a chain of command...
in this way there is never any chaos....
In the kingdom of Yahweh there is perfect harmony....
quote:
bluefrog ..... If you feel that the Spirit is less than either the Father or the Son then the message that Found in Him started this with by Martin is of no value. The scriptures that Martin gave were backing up his understanding as well as mine.
I am not implying that the Holy Spirit is any less than the Father or the Son ...
a husband is not of more value or more important than the wife ... they are equal in every respect to each other but the husband is the head or authority in the relationship....
likewise the Father, Son and the Spirit are equal in every respect but with different complimenting offices but Yahweh is the head in the relationship....
everything that belongs to the Father is given to the Son.... and the Father has given the Son a Name above every name....
When we taint the Truth ever so little, it become something less than he Truth....
quote:
READ ALL ABOUT MY JESUS-- ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY HAS BEEN GIVEN TO JESUS!!!! ........
Philippians 2 : 6-11
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Matthew 28
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, ALL AUTHORITY in heaven AND on earth has been given to me.
Col 1
16 For BY him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created BY him, and FOR him:
17 And he is BEFORE all things, and BY him all things consist.
18 And he IS the head of the body, the church: who IS the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the PREEMINENCE.(chief highest, uppermost seat)
19 For it PLEASED the Father that in him should ALL fulness dwell;
Did you hear that??? It PLEASED The Father ... He Loves, Loves, Loves His Son!
Jesus EARNED it folks! Somebody ought to be shoutin by now! If we are not excited about who HE IS then we have missed the whole thing!
Wherefore GOD also hath HIGHLY EXALTED HIM, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father
AMEN And AMEN!
GLORY!
NO I'M NOT DONE ...
Father God says ALL things were made BY Jesus, FOR Jesus, Nothing was made WITHOUT Jesus. All power and authority has been given to The Son Jesus By The Father. He gave Him the name Jesus which is above all names, and every knee is gonna bow--every tongue will confess it-- to God's glory. He is The glory of The Father! It's all about God's Son! Father God has made this perfectly clear.
Father God says:
"This is My Son, whom I love, in whom I am well pleased, Listen to Him!"
Jesus said regarding the Holy Spirit:
“He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 “All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
The Father says "listen to Him" The Spirit glorifies Jesus Christ in what He says.
And these three agree in one!
God The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Likewise, the apostle James wrote: "Thou believest that God is one; thou doest well" (James 2:19)
Found in Him the above quote is great stuff... no argument... but they are not co-equal
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Eden
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bluefrog wrote quote:
eden...what is the first thing that one does when going to the Lord to be saved?
The first thing you do is repent (cleaning that old stuff). Whatever gave you the idea that the Spirit was going to come help you get rid of your sins you have committed?
The Bible says the Spirit lusts against (fights against) the flesh and the flesh lusts against (fights against the Spirit).
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lustsh against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that you would.
That is, AFTER I am saved, the Spirit comes in and THEN the Spirit starts "fighting for me" against the flesh.
bluefrog continued quote:
Where do get these ideas?
I get those ideas from Galatians 5:17 and other verses in the Bible. Where do you get YOUR ideas from???
bleufrog continued quote:
If you don't have the power to repent then you don't have the faith that Jesus will forgive you.
Of course I have the power to repent. But when a person repents, they do not right there and then CLEAN OUT THE OLD NASTY STUFF before they are saved.
They repent of being a sinner before God and they acknowledge to God that they ARE a sinner and they accept God's offer that Jesus died in their place. THEN THEY ARE SAVED right there and then.
They're still as dirty but now that they are saved they have access to the Spirit of God and the Spirit starts helping them live a cleaner life, no so much because I am now cleaner but only because the Spirit is CLEAN.
As the CLEAN Spirit begins to live in, I thankfully will also look somewhat cleaner (but I won't be really clean until I also receive my glorified body).
So bluefrog wrote quote:
If you don't have the power to repent then you don't have the faith that Jesus will forgive you.
First I repent that I have been a sinner and then I have faith that Jesus died in my place. I got both of them, bluefrog.
bluefrog finished with quote:
You can not receive righteousness without repenting, asking forgiveness and cleaning yourself up so to speak first.
We do not clean ourselves up first. We acknowledge that we are filthy sinners and God saves us right there and then, filthy and all.
love, Eden
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Found in Him
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NO I'M NOT DONE ...
Father God says ALL things were made BY Jesus, FOR Jesus, Nothing was made WITHOUT Jesus. All power and authority has been given to The Son Jesus By The Father. He gave Him the name Jesus which is above all names, and every knee is gonna bow--every tongue will confess it-- to God's glory. He is The glory of The Father! It's all about God's Son! Father God has made this perfectly clear.
Father God says:
"This is My Son, whom I love, in whom I am well pleased, Listen to Him!"
Jesus said regarding the Holy Spirit:
“He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 “All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
The Father says "listen to Him" The Spirit glorifies Jesus Christ in what He says.
And these three agree in one!
God The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Likewise, the apostle James wrote: "Thou believest that God is one; thou doest well" (James 2:19)
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Found in Him
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posted
becausehelives wrote...Yahshua said..."I only do what I see My Father is doing in Heaven"
and the Holy Spirit only testifies of Yahshua....
but co-equal mean equal in authority....
They are equal in Holiness and characteristics of love, long suffering, gentleness, ect...
but the co-equal doctrine is a lie started by the Roman who!re and adopted as truth by most Protestants ....
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READ ALL ABOUT MY JESUS-- ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY HAS BEEN GIVEN TO JESUS!!!! ........
Philippians 2 : 6-11
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Matthew 28
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, ALL AUTHORITY in heaven AND on earth has been given to me.
Col 1
16 For BY him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created BY him, and FOR him:
17 And he is BEFORE all things, and BY him all things consist.
18 And he IS the head of the body, the church: who IS the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the PREEMINENCE.(chief highest, uppermost seat)
19 For it PLEASED the Father that in him should ALL fulness dwell;
Did you hear that??? It PLEASED The Father ... He Loves, Loves, Loves His Son!
Jesus EARNED it folks! Somebody ought to be shoutin by now! If we are not excited about who HE IS then we have missed the whole thing!
Wherefore GOD also hath HIGHLY EXALTED HIM, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father
AMEN And AMEN!
GLORY!
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Found in Him
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1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost and these three are one."
It's what it says folks. One.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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bluefrog
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BECAUSE HE LIVES....Nothing I have read has led me to believe that the offices of the trinity are one over the other. It has always meant to me that they were just different offices, different tasks and all one.
Sort of hard to get a handle on isn't it?
If you feel that the Spirit is less than either the Father or the Son then the message that Found in Him started this with by Martin is of no value. The scriptures that Martin gave were backing up his understanding as well as mine.
The 1 Cor verse you quoated had little to do with this issue.
Another thing to think about is Of what value is a head if there are no other parts?
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becauseHElives
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very good summary of the Holy Spirit but I dis agree with this statement....
quote:
co-equal with the Father and the Son.
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Yahshua said..."I only do what I see My Father is doing in Heaven"
and the Holy Spirit only testifies of Yahshua....
but co-equal mean equal in authority....
They are equal in Holiness and characteristics of love, long suffering, gentleness, ect...
but the co-equal doctrine is a lie started by the Roman who!re and adopted as truth by most Protestants ....
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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bluefrog
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eden...what is the first thing that one does when going to the Lord to be saved?
The first thing you do is repent (cleaning that old stuff). Whatever gave you the idea that the Spirit was going to come help you get rid of your sins you have committed? Where do get these ideas ?
If you don't have the power to repent then you don't have the faith that Jesus will forgive you.
You can not receive righteousness without repenting, asking forgiveness and cleaning yourself up so to speak first.
Seriously, where do you get these ideas?
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bluefrog
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eden, you need to think before you write.
If Satan was trying to be Like God or As God that should be clear to most but read on.
Before trying to guess what was going on as it would in your mind you need to get the facts.
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WildB
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Rom.5
[2] By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Eph.2
[18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph.3
[12] In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
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That is all.....
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Eden
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bluefrog wrote quote:
To put the Holy Spirit on retainer, you must let Him move in. Before He moves in you need to get rid of some stuff, old dirty smelly nasty sinful stuff and more than you even remember you are storing away.
That is not true. We do NOT have to first get rid of some stuff before He moves in.
When we first have faith in Jesus dying for our sins, then we IMMEDIATELY receive access to the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit moves IMMEDIATELY into our dirty human house on an "as is" basis.
We do NOT FIRST have to clean up for the Holy Spirit to move in. Why? Because the Holy Spirit is there to HELP US clean up our human house by guiding our steps onto paths of righteousness. We do not have the POWER to do it ourselves.
love, Eden
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Eden
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Found in Him wrote to Eden that Lucifer had said quote:
I will be like the Most High." (Isa 14.12-14)
This was more than "doing his own thing" This was self exaltation and "desire" to be greater than his master! This is the great sin of pride.
The Bible says Lucifer was not trying to be GREATER than his master but LIKE his master. And "self exaltation" IS the same as "doing one's own thing".
The fact is that ANY of us who "do our own thing" instead of listening to input from God, then ALL of us are desiring to "be like the most High". There is no middle ground here.
love, Eden
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bluefrog
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Because of all the faults and sins and problems we have in the face of our Lord, it is hard to understand why in the world He puts up with us.
It must be that I am just not capable of understanding the capacity of His Love.
If all we needed was a book (the bible) to change our direction then it still wouldn't work. Even before the book was the Holy Spirit, and He wasn't well accepted either. God gave His only Son for us. With His blood He gave us the ability to have a life everlasting as originally planned, not in the flesh, but at least in Spirit. Think about that a while.
When this flesh body is dead, our spirit is with Jesus until the judgement day, one or the other.
When that day comes, the books are opened, and if you have already been given an advocate to stand up for you (The Holy Spirit) against the prosecuter (The Devil)you can rest at ease. The Holy Spirit has never lost a case. As before, He will show and tell you what is going on. If you go to court without Him, you are toast ! But will you need to go to court with Him ?
To put the Holy Spirit on retainer, you must let Him move in. Before He moves in you need to get rid of some stuff, old dirty smelly nasty sinful stuff and more than you even remember you are storing away. For Him to move in He is going to bring in a bunch of stuff, Good stuff that He has always had, stuff from the Father, and stuff from the Son, stuff from way back at the creation and even longer.
It will be just Great ! He is gonna share stuff with you that you never even knew existed.
He will even tell you of stuff that is up and coming. The only cleaning and cooking will be for yourself. He will listen to you and you need to listen to Him. He will pray with and for you and convey messages to and from Jesus.
That pretty much covers it from a human point of view, but just think of it, a Holy Spirit living in you. If you let Him, He can help you settle out of court, so it's good to pay attention.
Everyone you meet won't have that Spirit living in them and some show it, what about you ?
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bluefrog
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EDEN...Subject: The Holy Spirit
In response to your message 2/26 at 2:59 am:
Please read Romans 8:14 again.
*There is a difference between good and bad works and neither is for salvation.
*Your much used "treasure in an earthen vessel" is not as you use it to mean.
*Yes, you can TRY to be Christ Like, our goal.
*Your senerio of The Spirit being like a TV crystal is off base, I will explain later.
*Lucifer was given freedom of choice just like all of Gods creations but his choice was nothing even similar to that of Adam and Eve. Satan wanted to replace God.
*We are not too ignorant to run our own lives as humans, but right or wrong is a choice.
*Why do you keep saying God Jesus?
*You are allowed to be a Christian and think for yourself.
*What do you mean when you say "Holy Spirit Again" and "From Moment to Moment"?
There was just too much to quote each thing you said. I will furnish some more info on the Spirit later.
OK I just discovered your message is duplicated.
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Found in Him
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Eden wrote... But Lucifer wanted to run his own life without input from God and Adam and Eve did the same thing and began to ignore the input from God to their spirit, and instead Adam and Eve did their own thinking at the soul level and executed that, and sinful consequences resulted because we are too ignorant to run our own lives.
Correction:
How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High." (Isa 14.12-14)
This was more than "doing his own thing" This was self exaltation and "desire" to be greater than his master! This is the great sin of pride.
Humility and fear of The Lord is wise at all times.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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Romans 8:14, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
When we "cease from our own works" and instead "allow the Spirit to lead us", only then are we the sons of God.
But if we "take up our works again" and "start doing our own thinking again", then we are no longer sons of God, neither indeed could we be, and we become sons of Adam and Eve again.
Only God Jesus can be God in us. We have a "treasure in earthen vessel". The Spirit of God is the treasure and I am the earthen vessel. The treasure does NOT become the vessel, nor does the vessel become the treasure.
We cannot become "Christ-like". Only Christ can be Christ-like.
To me the Holy Spirit in me is like a TV crystal/receiver which receives counsel directly from Jesus in heaven, and then the Holy Spirit relays that information to MY spirit, and then my spirit shows my soul what it heard from the Spirit of God, and then my soul executes in my body what my soul heard from my spirit.
But Lucifer wanted to run his own life without input from God and Adam and Eve did the same thing and began to ignore the input from God to their spirit, and instead Adam and Eve did their own thinking at the soul level and executed that, and sinful consequences resulted because we are too ignorant to run our own lives.
So the wise person restores the original hierarchy and asks for and allows God Jesus to counsel the Holy Spirit in me, which then relays that to my spirit, which then relays that to me at the soul level, and I either choose to implement what Jesus just said I should do next, OR I again implement my own idea of what I should do next.
That to me is what the Holy Spirit does in me and for me, and because Jesus died on the cross for my sins, God then was able to grant that I have access to the Holy Spirit again, so that now I can hear again what I should do next, from moment to moment.
love, Eden
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bluefrog
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Whatdayameanbythat? I wuz bein nice. You covered it all. Least it seems like it.
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Found in Him
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Bluefrog....shame on you! Who ruffled your lily pad?
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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bluefrog
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Well, if I had anything to add to that I would have to make it up. ![[zzzzzz]](graemlins/20.gif)
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Found in Him
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What the Bible Teaches
About the Holy Spirit
By Harold S. Martin
The least understood Person of the Godhead is the Holy Spirit. Because of ignorance and neglect, many Christians are depriving themselves of blessing and help. The Holy Spirit is sometimes ignored because His work is not quite as visibly prominent as the work of God the Father and God the Son. In Glacier National Park, for example, one can become awe-stricken by the beauty of the mountains created by God the Father. In the Old City of Jerusalem, travelers can see the Pavement where Jesus stood when tried before Pilate. But material evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit is not as easy to see. Nevertheless the Holy Spirit is active, and a proper understanding of who He is and what He does is basic to several aspects of salvation, and to many facets of the Christian faith.
1. THE PERSONALITY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
It is of great importance that we see clearly that God the Holy Spirit is as much a Person as is God the Father and God the Son. When we use the word "person" we usually think of human beings. Thus we have a tendency to expect a person to be like a human being--with a body, as well as with something immaterial (which we call "soul" or "spirit"). We usually don't think of a person apart from a body.
a) The Holy Spirit possesses the essentials of personality. The essentials of personality are intelligence, emotions, and will. The Holy Spirit has all these characteristics. He knows the things of God and that implies intelligence (1 Corinthians 2: 10-11). It is possible to grieve the Spirit, and that implies emotions (Ephesians 4:30). It is the Spirit who distributes spiritual gifts "as he wills," thus He has a will (I Corinthians 12:11). A "person" can exist apart from a body.
b) The Holy Spirit is designated as a person. The Greek word for Spirit is "pneuma" (a neuter gender word), but the pronoun used for the Spirit is always masculine, and thus should be translated "he" and "him" as in John 14:26 and John 15:26. The Holy Spirit is a person because a personal pronoun is used to designate Him.
c) The Holy Spirit performs personal activities. He teaches and witnesses and reproves and speaks and prays for us (John 16:8,13; Romans 8:26). These are not the kinds of things done by a mere influence.
Many down through the centuries have denied the personality of the Holy Spirit. Socinianism (A.D. 1600) defined "the Spirit" as "energy flowing from God to man." Most liberal theologians today agree with that definition. They mention "the Spirit" often, but He is not clearly identified as a person. Frequently He is considered merely as a power or an influence.
2. THE DEITY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
The Holy Spirit is not only a person; He is a divine Person. The Holy Spirit is God, co-equal with the Father and the Son.
a) The Holy Spirit has characteristics possessed only by God. He is eternal in His nature (Hebrews 9:14), omnipresent (Psalms 139:7-10), and omniscient (1 Corinthians 2: 10-11). Holiness (Ephesians 4:30) and love (Romans 15:30) are attributed to the Spirit. All these qualities are attributes of God,
b) The Holy Spirit does things which only God can do. He has been active in creation (Job 33:4), in regeneration (Titus 3:5), and in the resurrection (Romans 8:11). Only God can create, regenerate, and resurrect.
c) The Spirit is equally associated with other members of the Trinity. Lying to the Spirit is as blasphemous as if lying to God (Acts 5:3-4). In the baptismal formula (Matthew 28:19) and in Paul's benediction (2 Corinthians 13:14), the name of the Spirit is associated equally with the names of the Father and the Son.
How would it sound if Matthew 28:19 said: "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of Paul"? It just would not sound right, because Paul was a mere man. The Spirit's equal association with the Father and the Son, identifies Him with God.
3. THE WORK AND ACTIVITY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
The Holy Spirit has been active in the eternal ages past and will continue His work on into the future time.
a) The Spirit's work in the Old Testament
His part in creation: The Holy Spirit had part in the creation of life (Genesis 1:2), in establishing order and beauty in the universe (Isaiah 40:12-13), and in continually renewing and preserving the processes of life (Psalms 104:29-30).
His part in revelation: The Holy Spirit moved and guided the writers of the Scriptures so that they communicated exactly what God wanted human beings to know (2 Peter 1:21). The New Testament attributes many Old Testament passages to the Spirit (Acts 1: 16).
His selective indwelling: The Holy Spirit was in certain O.T. people (for example, Joseph, Genesis 41:38). He came upon others (for example, Othniel, Judges 3:10). Today He dwells in all believers and not only abides with His people (John 14:17).
His restraint upon sin: The Holy Spirit exercised a general restraint upon sin. He has convicted and convinced from the earliest times. Genesis 6:3 says, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever" (NIV).
b) The Spirit's work in the Life of Christ
In His birth: The Holy Spirit was active in the Virgin Birth. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35), and Joseph was informed by an angel that the Spirit had planted the seed (Matthew 1:20).
In His ministry: Jesus was anointed by the Spirit in some special way at the time of His baptism (John 1:32). Jesus was anointed with power for service (Acts 10:38), and was empowered by the Spirit to do miracles (Matthew 12:28).
In His resurrection: The resurrection of Jesus was accomplished through the power of the Spirit. Romans 1:4 says, "who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead" (NIV).
c) The Spirit's work in the Plan of Salvation
He convicts: The Spirit places the truth of the Gospel in a clear light before the unsaved person so that the individual acknowledges it as truth. The Holy Spirit reminds the sinner that if he refuses to receive the Saviour, he will face certain judgment. The Holy Spirit deals with unsaved persons by convincing them of their lost condition. He makes sinners ill-at-ease when the salvation message is presented.
He regenerates: The Spirit imparts life to those who will respond to the conditions of salvation (Titus 3:5). The "renewing" (the new life) is of the Holy Spirit. The word "regeneration" in Titus 3:5 is the same as the phrase "born again" in John 3:3 (in the Greek text). When a person exercises repentance toward God and faith in Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit makes him a new creation.
He baptizes: Spirit baptism is the act by which the Holy Spirit unites the one who believes and repents-with the mystical Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). The first Spirit-baptism occurred on the Day of Pentecost (compare Acts 1:5 with Acts 11: 15-16). Today every believer in Christ in the moment of his regeneration shares in that baptism. Each believer is baptized Spirit. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a quiet act on the part of the Spirit which gives the Christian a position in the Body of Christ. (Before Pentecost, each person who believed in Christ was a single unit believer--120 in the Upper Room and 500 in the country of Galilee-but after Pentecost, all the believers were constituted together into the one mystical Body of Christ).
He indwells: The Christian is indwelt by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19). our hearts are His sanctuary. Since God lives within, we must be careful not to allow anything that would make Him uncomfortable and ill-at-ease.
d) The Spirit's work in the Believer's Life
He teaches: Teaching involves the idea of instruction. Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would teach the disciples "all truth" (John 16:12-13). The Holy Spirit teaches us a knowledge of the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:12). Normally, the teaching is done through other believers who have the gift of teaching (Ephesians 4:11-12).
He guides: Guiding involves the idea of direction. Romans 8:14 says, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." The Spirit guides in the sense that He opens doors and closes doors (Acts 8:29). The Spirit will never lead in a manner contrary to the Word of God.
He infills. The infilling is a repeated experience. On the Day of Pentecost the disciples were filled with the Spirit (Acts 2:4), and a few days later they had such an experience again (Acts 4:31). The command in Ephesians 5:18 literally says, "keep on being filled with the Spirit." The conditions for being filled involve dedication of self to God. We cannot be filled with the Spirit if we are half full of self and of selfish desires.
He empowers: Empowering involves the idea of enablement. The Holy Spirit helps the Christian to find victory over sin. Romans 8:13 says, "For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live" (NKJV). Yielding oneself to the Spirit's enablement, along with human resolve, are both necessary in order to experience victories in the Christian life.
He endows gifts: A spiritual gift is a God-given ability for service. The specific gifts of the Spirit are listed in Romans 12:6-8, 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, 28-30, and Ephesians 4:11. They include apostleship, prophecy, miracles, healing, tongues, evangelism, teaching, faith, ministering ("helps"), giving, and showing mercy. The spiritual gifts are given for the purpose of building up the church (Ephesians 4:12-13). Every Christian has some gift (1 Corinthians 12:4-7), but no Christian has all the gifts (1 Corinthians 12:29-30). The gifts must be held in humility and modesty (Romans 12:3).
He produces fruit: The fruit of the Spirit are the graces of character which the Holy Spirit produces in the Christian life. There are three clusters of fruit described in Galatians 5:22-23. "Love, joy, and peace" describe our Christian experience in relation to God. "Longsuffering, gentleness, and goodness" describe our Christian experience in relation to our fellow human beings. And "faith, meekness, and temperance" describe the Christian experience in relation to ourselves. These fruits are the result of the divine Spirit working through the human spirit. We must not let the present-day emphasis on gifts overshadow the importance of fruit in the life.
The Holy Spirit is God and thus He is everywhere present at all times. lip has been active and working in the past. He is active and working in the present. He will be active and working in the future. (For example, Isaiah 11 describes the millennial age, and chapter 11:2--in the NIV--says the fullness of the Spirit will be upon Jesus Christ the King in that day).
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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