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Topic: Wherefore, behold!
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Michael Harrison
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Member # 6801
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posted
And you have interpreted 'take-up' to mean that you have to 'do' (carry). However that is not what scripture states. For why would HE go to the extreme to 'die' for you, then ask you to carry a cross? HE carries the Cross also. HE died. HE did the hard part so you would not have to. He only asks you to invest in what HE did for you. He asks you to 'let' yourself be crucified, so that HE may live in you. How laborious is 'to let?'
Isn't our God great!
Amen!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
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posted
You see becausely, you are not required to 'carry' your cross. To "Take up," one's cross is simply to die to who he is in the world, and live unto (by) Christ. For Jesus said His burden is light. And HE doesn't contradict Himself. If HE says 'take up the cross' and also 'His burden is light', one has to deduce what HE means, which is that 'easy' part, of receiving HIS life. The Cross is in THE RECEIVING.
And you cannot love. HIS spirit loves. You are a vessel by which HE ministers HIS love, but you are a clay pot. Clay pots have not one whittle of love. Clay pots 'contain'. If you could love you would not need Him.
"He who loves his life will lose it. Whosoever loses his life for my sake, will find it." Why? When one realizes he cannot 'do' it, then and only then will he 'find' HIS life, which he then can live by. But he who loves his life, insists, after the manner of Cain, that he 'can-do'. And this man, though aware of the life of Christ, hath not the life of Christ 'working' in Him. For he 'displaces' HIS life by the sin of unbelief.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Eden
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posted
Hi, becauseHElives, you wrote quote:
... For if you are living according to the flesh you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the flesh, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
But isn't this precisely what Michael Harrison has beens saying? If we are "led by the Spirit of God", and NOT BY OURSELVES, and we are NOT LEANING ON OUR OWN UNDERSTANDING ANYMORE, then indeed "all who are led by the Spirit of God are indeed sons of God" because they are "being led by the Spirit of God" which in turns hears from the Son of God Jesus who is seated at the right hand of the Father up in heaven?
And this Jesus communicates directly and wirelessly to the Holy Spirit IN ME how the Spirit of God should lead me next", and then indeed I am NOT me who is leading my life, but it is the SON OF GOD HIMSELF who is leading my life, provided that it is "okay with me that Jesus IMPLEMENTS ALL HIS IDEAS IN ME"?
Like, there are certain persons whose word I trust, and there are certain persons whose word I do NOT trust. So when I TRUST JESUS, then it will feel basically as if I am "just go along for the ride, right"? Or betterk yet, "I am going along for the right ride". ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
love, Eden
"all hail, King Jesus!"
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
again Michael you do as Satan does, you miss quote the scripture....
quote:
They always kill the messenger.
religion fills a person with pride,
faith in Yahshua bring a person to complete humility....carrying our cross
I can only speak for myself and what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me... if it bears witness with your spirit , we are brothers and sisters (children of Yahweh)....
"So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh to live according to the flesh -- for if you are living according to the flesh you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the flesh, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, 'Abba! Father!' The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him that we may indeed be glorified with Him." (Romans 8:12-17).
If He is leading me, I can love, I can love just exactly like HE loves because I have HIS Spirit abiding in me and I abide in HIM!
![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif) ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Look at it like this. God knows you cannot do it. For if you could, HE would not have needed to die. So when HE says 'do', HE is telling Himself. And His word will not return to Him void. But as HIS child, you get to participate. Yet you do not 'do' the doing. You go through the motions. HE "doeth the works."
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but [and] the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Did Jesus 'do' anything? HE followed the Spirit. He saw the works of God because HE did not 'get ahead of God', and try to do anything Himself (though HE was God). HE is our big brother. He is our example.
So with the believer, there is universally a 'carnal' urge, or impulse, to 'direct' God, which comes from the 'old man' who is supposed to die, or be dead (I die daily! Paul), but who hasn't learned of it yet. So when one does his own thing expecting God to meet it, nothing happens. Then his faith is dented. It is the case (experience) of many a believer. For he knows what he knows, and he expects things to take place. But when nothing is happening (because he is not properly yielded, though he is unaware of this condition), he simply feels that he has to work it up in order to be in God's will. (The devil tells him this. Tis why Pentecostals get a bad name.)
But God doesn't need to be worked up. For HIM to be near enough to us for anything to happen, one only need to submit by going under the Cross, that HE (HE "Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven) may live. Then verily, HE will give the one the 'desires' of his heart. That means that God will impart HIS desires to one's heart. Then one can know he is following. Then he can say that the works which will certainly follow, that Jesus ("The Father doeth the works") doeth them. And Jesus gets the glory. "For no flesh shall glory in HIS presence." So, as you said, "Silver and gold have I none," but Jesus has a desire to heal thee. And how did Peter know? It was the burning desire of his heart, which was the desire of the Lord, nor Peter. And Peter knew what God would do. Hence he spoke!
Amen!
Selah!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Eden
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posted
Michael Harrison wrote quote:
He cannot, does not, will not tell you to 'do' what HE knows you can-not! So what is HE saying?
I agree with that. One thing I have realized in recent weeks is that it is absolute nonsense for us sinful people to think that we can be "Christlike". Only Jesus can be Christlike. However, we Christians can move from "glory to glory".
Like what was the last miracle I did? Like OJ's housekeeper I have to say, "I can't recall". But Peter and John had moved on to enough "glory" that they were able to let "Jesus in them" heal the lame man outside the gate ("silver and gold I have none, but what I have I give you"). But, that was Peter, John, and Paul.
So I think that "only Jesus can be Jesus". But Jesus can be Jesus IN US.
However, Michael Harrison you wrote, quote:
He cannot, does not, will not tell you to 'do' what HE knows you can-not! So what is HE saying?
are you are saying it is "even hopeless for Jesus to tell us what we should do next?
But what about the MANY Bible verses where it says that God, by way of the Holy Spirit, will GUIDE OUR STEPS? Isn't that "Jesus telling me what I should do next" or how do you interpret that?
Michael Harrison wrote to Eden quote:
You are not the doer. You are the container. Selah!
One may always hope that a good "Selah!" will help. (I know Bernie Madoff thought so.)
love, Eden
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Oh brother! ( ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif) You gotta love em)
quote:
Say you and Jesus were driving down the highway and Jesus was the driver. You and He were having a conversation, and all of a sudden, GOD FORBID, Jesus wrecked. Would the Authority give you or Him the ticket for the wreck? Knowing that the One who received the ticket was responsible, now I ask you, if you were to sin and Jesus was the driver, would He not be held accountable? To say that Jesus is the driver, is to say that He sinned and not you. And by all means, I know you do not say or think that! But keep this in mind, He (Jesus the Christ) sent a Helper to help us in time of weaknesses. It is this Holy Spirit which sats in the passenger seat and the same One which tells you that there is a roadblock up ahead and take a detour.
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
By whom did this trial (wreck) come? Did Jesus then wreck? Indeed, perhaps HE did. Does HE get the ticket? Well, HE paid the price already. So it doesn't matter. But HE is Lord. He determines. And even accidents can be'on purpose' if you will. But in the 'on-purpose' stuff (like meaning sin, deliberate or not), you heap judgment upon yourself (that is another sermon). Yet an accident as you describe is not necessarily the direct result of sin.
(Mind you, I know I say 'you' a lot, but I am speaking in general, concerning us all.)
Consider Paul. He was in prison. Did Paul wreck? Did Jesus deserve the ticket for it? Who is Lord of our circumstances clyde? Do we create and/or control them? And are not our circumstances our (oneinchrist, you will appreciate this one) TEST? Do they not prove "JESUS, who is within us, as to whether we yield to HIM, or to our own instincts (lusts)? Isn't that what it is about, proving us, and our faithfulness? You know, we could wreck, and it would not necessarily be about sin, but about humbling us.
But this: (and I quote) "now I ask you, if you were to sin and Jesus was the driver, would He not be held accountable? To say that Jesus is the driver, is to say that He sinned and not you."
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners (i.e. to commit sin), is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Will no one trust HIM fully? That is the obedience HE is looking for.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
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posted
He cannot, does not, will not tell you to 'do' what HE knows you can-not! So what is HE saying?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
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Why I just love you fultziii! God gives me such wonderful people.
quote:
Do you know what the Savior said? He said, "Why do you call me good. There is none who is good except One and that is God alone." And do you know what else He said in that two sentence statement? He said, "But if you desire to enter life, obey the commandments." In case there is doubt, "you" is implied when it is a command. That is two things that Watchman Nee teaches against.
Now Michael Harrison, where do you draw the line?
What do you think HE meant by "Obey the commandments?" And how sayest thou that Watchman Nee teaches against this???
Jesus IS that life. And HE can abide in us without our abiding in Him. Strangely! And abiding in Him is the fruitbearing life.
In 'not' abiding in Him, one can attempt to 'do' all sorts of things FOR Him, but they are the works of Cain. Of course one means well, but it misses the blessing. For it is not what we 'do' in serving God, that serves Him; for doing is not keeping the commandments. We cannot 'keep' them by doing them. So, what do you think HE meant by "obey the commandments?"
eden, ol brother, old friend, you cannot be wishey-washey and see the results. Either you'll let Jesus be in control, and trust that your 'behavior' (conversation in the KJV) expresses Him as you trust, (that is you living out your daily life) or you will forever attempt to 'please' Him in your own strength. Insomuch as you express Him as you trust Him to be doing it all, there is a consciousness of self when you are about to override or step out on your own. There is also a consciousness of obeying, but not as though you are doing it by your strength. You are not the doer. You are the container. Selah!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Eden
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bluefrog wrote in response to me saying that at least he could count to three quote:
EDEN....I assume that this is another closed door.
You are being overly sensitive for a former military man. In the prior text you had said something about "not understanding this or that", but that you did understand "God the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit", and so I said, "well, at least you can count to three, and that's the main thing", meaning, "you got the main three things in life right".
Hey, I'm a bit of an oddball when it comes to expressing myself. What can I say, it's a bit unusual.
Eden
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Eden
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Clyde Fultz III wrote quote:
I just got to tell you Eden, little jumping butterflies churned inside of me when I heard you say the things you did in this complete post.
Are you saying these were good or bad butterflies...?
Eden
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Clyde Fultz III
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
bluefrog, well at least you can count to 3, and that's the main thing.
love, Eden
What sort of response is this Eden!!! "...at least you can count to three". Are you calling him so stupid that you are amazed that he can count to three?
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Clyde Fultz III
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
[QUOTE]And I thinkt the distinction of "who is sitting where" is important in this case...but I'm not sure right this second WHY it is important to know "who is sitting where" because, perhaps the results would be the same?
I just got to tell you Eden, little jumping butterflies churned inside of me when I heard you say the things you did in this complete post. I hope you keep it up Brother. Just remember, you only need the Bible to learn the Truth and not another's word. You do not need anyone at all to come to the knowledge of truth, just listen to the Holy Spirit and read the written word only.
And if you would be so kind, please allow me to instill this though into you as you remove the spider webs sown by a black widow (Watchman Nee).
Say you and Jesus were driving down the highway and Jesus was the driver. You and He were having a conversation, and all of a sudden, GOD FORBID, Jesus wrecked. Would the Authority give you or Him the ticket for the wreck? Knowing that the One who received the ticket was responsible, now I ask you, if you were to sin and Jesus was the driver, would He not be held accountable? To say that Jesus is the driver, is to say that He sinned and not you. And by all means, I know you do not say or think that! But keep this in mind, He (Jesus the Christ) sent a Helper to help us in time of weaknesses. It is this Holy Spirit which sats in the passenger seat and the same One which tells you that there is a roadblock up ahead and take a detour.
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bluefrog
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EDEN....I assume that this is another closed door.
Good bye.
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Eden
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bluefrog, well at least you can count to 3, and that's the main thing.
love, Eden
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bluefrog
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EDEN...No doubt, your questions were good ones, and I suppose that in one form or another, we all try to figure these things out.
Looks like you have figured it out on your own, or without suggestions from others.
My way of putting it is: The Father is on the throne, Jesus is at the Fathers Side, the Holy Spirit is within us as a helper. I try to keep it simple because the Trinity is way too spiritual for me to go any further than what the bible says.
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Clyde Fultz III
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RW,
Point very well taken. Many believe what is told them simply because it is said and some twisted verse is attached. Therefore, will I wait upon the Lord and that which is revealed, to that will I cling to. And how can I cling to it if I do not know what it is that I cling to. Therefore, will I mediatate upon Your words day and night.
Welcome Brother.
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Eden
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bluefrog wrote quote:
Eden do you really think that you cannot love until you receive your new glorified body or are you just trying to splain MH.
During this discussion, I was really questioning within myself which of the two it was:
1. Is it that I ALLOW Jesus to completely take over my spirit, soul, and body to "JUST BE HIMSELF" and I'm going along for the ride, or
2. Is it that Jesus is in heaven and from heaven Jesus tells the Holy Spirit INSIDE of me to COUNSEL me what I should do next.
And I was wondering, bluefrog, which of the two it was. I think that Michael Harrison was implying that it TRUST that Jesus DOES IT ALL IN ME on my behalf.
But when I recently read the Psalms, I got the impression that the Spirit "guides my steps" and that it is still up to me whether to implement what the Spirit counselled me to do, or not implement it.
And in the end of thinking about this over these last several weeks, I even got to the point where I decided that IT DID NOT REALLY MATTER whether I think that (1) JESUS IN ME is doing everything from now on, or (2) whether I am choosing to do the whole counsel of God myself, or (3) to just call it "as long as I make Jesus the Lord of my life", IT ALL HAS THE SAME RESULTS, namely that It is no longer my old man that is making all the decisions but at a minimum it is the counsel of Jesus in heaven to the Holy Spirit in me, that is making all the difference. It pretty much works in all 3 ways.
Howbeit, the following verse seems to show that the Spirit of God guides me in my steps and DOES NOT TAKE OVER FROM ME in my daily steps:
John 16:13
Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for [b]He shall not speak of Himself, but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and he will show YOU things to come.
If the Spirit of truth GUIDES ME and is SHOWING ME things to come, then I would conclude from that, that the Holy Spirit HAS NOT TAKEN OVER my entire spirit, soul, and body.
And, to use the analogy of who is in the Driver's seat of my life. it appears from the above that I AM STILL IN THE DRIVER's seat and Jesus is sitting in the PASSENGER SEAT, as opposed to JESUS sitting in the Driver's Seat and ME sitting in the Passenger Seat.
And I thinkt the distinction of "who is sitting where" is important in this case...but I'm not sure right this second WHY it is important to know "who is sitting where" because, perhaps the results would be the same?
And so bluefrog wrote quote:
Eden do you really think that you cannot love until you receive your new glorified body or are you just trying to splain MH.
love, Eden
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RWDavis
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posted
Clyde,
Your quote of Matthew 19:17 is appropriate and timely in the post. Christ did not come to be exalted, but to turn people who exalt men back to God's word.
In Matthew 10:34-36 Jesus told us He has not come to bring peace on earth, but a sword setting divisions even among families. He was quoting from Micah 7:4-6 where the prophet told us to put our trust in no person at all, for all are decievers. Rather wait upon the Lord (Micah 7:7; Matthew 10:34-36; 19:17).
Christ was asked by Peter, James and John, after seeing Elijah pass on at the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt 17:1-8), why the scribes say the Elijah must come first before the great and dreadful day of the Lord (Malachi 4:4-6; Matthew 17:10), and Christ told them and us that not only must Elijah come first by he has already come and people who like to exalt people into nothingness twisted Elijah's testimony any which was they listed (Matt 17:11-12) and Christ prophecied in Matthew 17:12 that these false preachers who know nothing about the testimony of the fathers (Malachi 4:4-6; Matthew 23:29-33) will and have already preached Christ any which way they list (Matt 17:12; 24:4-5; 2Cor 5:16,19,21).
Christ did not come to be exalted by believers, for believers know He came to be accursed of God as a sinner hung on a tree (Galatians 3:13; 1Cor 15:51,56). Christ came to be exalted by non-believers (Psalms 110:1-7; Matt 22:42-46) who speak the words (Matt 23:1-3) but change their meanings (Matt 23:29-33) into heavenly nonsense (Deut 29:29; 30:12; Rom 10:6; Rev 19:11,12-13).
"That which is secret belongs unto the Lord our God, but that which is REVEALED belongs unto us and to our children that we may do all the words of this law....It is in your heart and in your mouth that you may say it and do it (Deut 29:29; 30:14; Rom 10:8,17; John 5:30,37-38)."
Indeed, why callest thou me good (Isaiah 51:12,13-15,16; Ps 146:3-4,5-8,9; Matt 12:32).
Thankyou Jesus (Matt 22:29-32; John 15:13,14-15; 2Cor 5:20)
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Clyde Fultz III
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Michael,
I was reading Watchman Nee and only had to come to one point to draw a line. When He was speaking about the division of the body, soul, and spirit, he deductively reasoned at the bottom that when we give ourself wholly over to the Spirit, then we become morally good. Do you know who else drew a line to that notion? Jesus Christ Himself. Do you know what the Savior said? He said, "Why do you call me good. There is none who is good except One and that is God alone." And do you know what else He said in that two sentence statement? He said, "But if you desire to enter life, obey the commandments." In case there is doubt, "you" is implied when it is a command. That is two things that Watchman Nee teaches against.
Now Michael Harrison, where do you draw the line?
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
All through the NT it says over and over again to love your brother and your neighbor. It all seems in vain to be teaching this if we are not suppose to 'do' it doesn't it??
The Spirit is not some deep spooky thing that the child of God cannot understand. HE IS the teacher Michael. Sent to each believer. He is my teacher and bears record of all Christ taught and commanded. If another comes along and proposes to teach something other than Christ or what He has taught-- The Spirit of God will oppose it and bring light to that error.
You mean well I'm sure. But Christ gave each believer The Holy Spirit as a teacher, a guide, a help. I have Christ Michael, but by some of your comments that you write shows that you think none of us know Him. Well I do.
Quote: The Spirit of God will oppose it and bring light to that error.[]
It is quite possible, and even likely foundNM that the very 'flesh' will oppose the truth, leaving one unenlightened. Only if one is truthfully yielded to the Holy spirit will the one be enlightened to error. For (going back), the flesh 'survives' when one has not 'reckoned himself dead.' And the flesh, 'reacts'. The flesh interferes. It is self preservation.
Now, I have tried to make it clear that I am not saying one does not know Christ when I make the statements I make. But people skim. They do not read, and consider. If they would only consider, they would discover something more precious. (Wow! I could launch into a thesis on this one.) But the flesh is indignant at the suggestion. "How can anyone know Christ better than I know Christ," Charles Trumbull said concerning a sermon he heard. And Paul spends all of His time writing about this very thing. Still, people just don't get it. It is because they are not ready to pay the price. But the price is not frightful. It is simply exercising trust. There is something to be discovered beyond what one thinks he or she knows.
We are only containers found in him. (see, that reads like a sentence saying one is found in him. No one realizes I am talking to found in him.) We are vessels. We do not love, though we dispense it. He does the love part. We just go through the motions. You'll not find any love in who you are. But in who HE is, that is a different matter. In fact, it is arrogant to believe that you can love. (No offense! Just reality.) And until we are broken from that, HE simply cannot love through us. We handicap HIM.
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Michael Harrison
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The devil is your accuser. For scripture says he is the accuser of the brethren. But it seems that if I disagree with you, I am accusing, labeling, or trashing. Nyet! I am teaching. You don't have to accept it, but you'd be better for it whether you believe me or not. For that reason you think I am proud, or self exalted? ![[updown]](graemlins/updown.gif)
I do not consider social courtesies, by the way, to be 'proper'. Life is too important just for frivolous discussions. Truth cuts like a sword, and scripture says HE came not to send peace but a sword.
Paul said if he did not preach, a dispensation of the gospel was committed to him. If I do not tell what I know, the same dispensation is committed by me. There is a message in what I am saying. It follows the same lines as Watchman Nee's "Breaking of the outward man." Indeed, the flesh is offended to hear it. But it is not intended to offend, but to liberate. But the flesh's only defense is to 'accuse' the speaker, when the flesh doesn't want to die. It is convenient, more so than for one to look at himself. And there is a condition present with the believer wherein he is indignant towards any suggestion of such. But scripture declares it. Thereof do I speak. It is not personal. It is not an attack. It is done in hope, that someone will catch something that will enlighten him. It is not the kind of intent that the judgment of God is against.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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bluefrog
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posted
Hugs.
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Found in Him
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posted
You are right. It without a doubt is confusion. I (like everyone else here) have tried to not only shed some light on the error but try to help. But there is no peace as long as we are accused and degraded.
Thank you for speaking the truth.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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bluefrog
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This is not a case of judgement, it is a case of reality. Your attempts to have a civil conversation with this individual have been just as fruitless as the rest of us have had with him.
Anyone on this board can get into a discussion with him and it only encourages him to exercise his hate and lust for arrogance. It is a bad job of fulfilling a need without showing it. It is so obvious that in his opinion, he always wins at degrading you even if you don't understand.
rivit
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Found in Him
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I seriously think there is something missing bluefrog. I hesitate to judge with only reading the scrambled words. Ignorance or intentional... I don't know. I guess that's what I keep digging to find out.
Maybe I ought to just stop???
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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bluefrog
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Found in Him....How can you say, twice, that you know he means well ?
It is obvious that you are a loving intelligent person who loves and understands God.
It is also obvious that you understand that we are to love our brothers and sisters in Christ and love our neighbors.
Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
v23)And be renewed in the Spirit of your mind; v24)And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
v25)Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour; for we are members one of another.
v26)Be ye angry, and sin not; let not the sun go down upon your wrath;
v27)Neither give place to the devil.
False teachers are people who misrepresent themselves as God's spokesman. They also are those who's teachings cannot be depended on because they have no basis in reality. They lust in arrogance. They claim to speak in the name of God but are easily detected.
Jesus has no use for persons who pretend to represent Him falsely. He tells us to ignore such persons and not to offer our pearls to them.
We are encouraged to be aware of sinful ways and not to sin. There is no place in the bible that says we are to love the works of the devil. Jesus sent those on their way and it was a matter of awarness. No trial necessary.
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Found in Him
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Michael,
I know you mean well, but honestly you haven't told me anything that I didn't already know about the Spirit. I am born-again and am born of The Spirit of God.
I am well aware of what the bible says about out of the belly shall flow...
What I don't understand is your teaching that I cannot love. This is a command of the Lord. To love not in word but in deed and in truth-- That is the word of God and what it teaches.
All through the NT it says over and over again to love your brother and your neighbor. It all seems in vain to be teaching this if we are not suppose to 'do' it doesn't it??
The Spirit is not some deep spooky thing that the child of God cannot understand. HE IS the teacher Michael. Sent to each believer. He is my teacher and bears record of all Christ taught and commanded. If another comes along and proposes to teach something other than Christ or what He has taught-- The Spirit of God will oppose it and bring light to that error.
You mean well I'm sure. But Christ gave each believer The Holy Spirit as a teacher, a guide, a help. I have Christ Michael, but by some of your comments that you write shows that you think none of us know Him. Well I do.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Michael Harrison
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I'm talking about the well-spring. For "out of your being will flow rivers of 'living' water." Is it the flesh, or the Spirit? (Don't read anything into this.) Many a person, most in fact, start in the Spirit, then succumbs to continuing in the flesh. It is almost an autopiloted thing. It seems we 'must' be doing something, so we 'work it up', but it is carnal. But we don't feel spiritual if we don't.
It requires introspection on the part of one, or reflection upon God, that one be guided to find the Spirit spring. Ultimately it requires that one be 'discerning' of the flesh, as opposed to the Spirit, and cap that well. In other words this is known as going under the Cross, wherein the believer dies, and consequently, Jesus lives.
You have heard the expression because you have used it I'm sure, "Move! I cannot see through muddy water." It happens whenever the kids are standing between you and the TV. It is a condition of the Christian, such that if he or she is not sold out according to the one's calling, that there is a lot of carnality which one is simply blind to, good intention stuff, and bad. It isn't meant to be. We are to get past that. In other words, we try to spew from two wells when we are not slain, and the water (the pure Spirit of God) becomes polluted by the flesh, hence we spill muddy water. No one will drink from muddy water whom we are trying to minister it to.
But if we truly know what it means to be under the Cross, experientially, we become 'one' with HIM, synchronously. "Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."
But it is casually overlooked as we continue merrily on our way. And we do not see whether we are leaving one set of foot prints, or two. The second set is self. We can know. And we can rise to spiritual heights which are ordered of the Lord.
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Found in Him
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Michael,
Please explain why you say I am in HIS way. Make it simple and to the point please.
Also, Please explain why Jesus gave me the command to love-- But Michael Harrison says I cannot love... again, please make it simple and to the point.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Michael Harrison
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Why did you miss it in my other posts found nm? You are willing to go out of your way to 'love' (though you have none to spare for the servant of the lord). Well, do you do all the rest? Have you bestowed all of your goods upon the poor; walked the extra mile; gone through the eye of the needle; and all the rest? How is it you can be selective, and then say you are 'doing' the will of God?
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Michael Harrison
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No. Sorry! It takes thought and setting up in order to be clear and concise, especially when one is communicating by writing. You are in HIS way. There.
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Found in Him
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Am I suppose to get out of your way here and let you teach me something other than the command of The Lord to love??
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Found in Him
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Jesus commanded me to Love
Michael says I can't
Please explain?
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Found in Him
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Can you explain that statement?
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
Show me JUST ONE SCRIPTURE where JESUS Himself SAID to step aside, play dead and let HIM love Himself and others FOR us.
Try the epistles.
quote:
You CAN'T cause He said TO DO IT!
You can't 'do' it. You can worship He who does.
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What I cannot for the life of me figure out is why we are preached at all day long on perfection but judged all day long as well.
How can anyone pursue perfection if they neglect the command of The Lord to Love.
It seems hypocritical to me.
No matter how anyone tries to "rationalize" the command to love... Jesus said To DO it!
Show me JUST ONE SCRIPTURE where JESUS Himself SAID to step aside, play dead and let HIM love Himself and others FOR us.
It's preposterous!
You CAN'T cause He said TO DO IT!
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Found in Him
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Yes I do love Michael.
You say:
We are not humble
We do not understand
We are incapable of loving
We judge
That leaves me to believe that you think we are not The Lord's. Folks might get a little upset with that Michael.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Michael Harrison
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Until you (h)umble yourself to the eye of the needle, you will not, you cannot understand. Not a soul among you....
quote:
John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
John 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
What is a command????
Do you, found, love one another?
quote:
Well, if I can not love then I guess I should hate. Now, where do I start...Hmmmmm. Nope, don't feel good. Capable or not I am compelled to love. Is that a sin or what I am supposed to behold ? Wherefore, behold Hate!
quote:
bf
Seems to me, judging by some of your posts that you don't have to 'start' hating.
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Michael Harrison Yahweh never ask us to do anything we can not do!
you need to understand just basics, even the evil are able to love....
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
you try to b so super spiritual you miss God completely!
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becausehelives
Who is missing God becausehelives?
Will you ever fail to read the scriptures the way they are written? "If ye being evil know how to give 'good' gifts..." In other words, you are evil HE is saying, but you are capable of giving love, and showing kindness and giving 'things', but as the world understands love and kindness.
And HE goes on to say that since even you know how to give good gifts, so how much more will the Heavenly Father give you the Holy Spirit. And who loves? It is the Holy Spirit whom HE gives to you, that by HIM you may love, HIS love. But your love is carnal. It is a dead work. May I refer you to the epistles where Paul goes over this time and again, yet, still you don't get it. You would rather argue.
Luk 11:13 "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"
And
Until you pass through 'eye of the needle' you do not comprehend what HE means when HE says 'do'. For you have not done - the first thing first. It is completely necessary.
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Found in Him
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bluefrog.... I betcha you are the winner of the day! I bet you are! I think I just put my finger on the WHEREFORE BEHOLD button.....
You Said:
"We aren't talking here about Agape, the Love only possible by God Himself."
WHEREFORE BEHOLD???????
Get me?
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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bluefrog
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![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif) Howdy Betty...Thanks. A scripture that paralells Matt 5:46 is:
Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest; for He is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
I love this one:
Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
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Betty Louise
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Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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bluefrog
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LOVE
In Greek, Love-philia, means brotherly love and love for the good.
We aren't talking here about Agape, the Love only possible by God Himself. We are talking about the love response of believers.
1 John 4:19 We love Him, because he first loved us. (I think that says we can love)
In both testaments love is a volitional term expressed in obedience to God.
John 14: 21-23 v21) He that have my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me; and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself in him. v22) Judas saith unto Him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that Thou wilt manifest Thyself unto us, and not unto the world? v23)Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love Me, he will keep My words; and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him. (He didn't mention piddley here or no love possible)
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments; and His commandments are not grevious. (HMMMM, you mean we can love Him and not grieve about it?)
And the commitment even grows:
John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another. (Ten commandments here says we are to love)
Love was the order of the day from creation:
1 John 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
v 12) Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother, And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
v 13) Marvel not, my brethern, if the world hate you.
v14) We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethern. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
v15) Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer; and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1 Cor 13 Speaks of charity, a form of love also.
This love in charity is the foundation for our behavior.
It concerns me here that someone would try to convince followers of Jesus that they are not capable of loving him. To suggest that we are not capable of love to the Lord or others, must be a lie to deceive. This is just as bad as saying that we can not love until we receive a new spiritual body and they doubt that that is possible, and that we know not what we do.
The love God has shown us, is intended to provoke our love for him and motivate a life style of love towards others.
I love it !
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Eden
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bluefrog wrote quote:
Eden do you really think that you cannot love until you receive your new glorified body or are you just trying to splain MH.
I think what MH meant, and I tend to agree, is that what we, sinful descendants from Adam and Eve, call "love", is "hardly love" compared to the love that Jesus has and in fact IS.
We have a very "piddley love" that barely deserves the name, but as egotistical as we are, we "go ahead and call it love anyway" eventhough it is little more than some egotistical "excitement". But, to ease Found in Him's grief, with what "love" we do have we say we "love Jesus".
love (what?), Eden
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bluefrog
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Eden do you really think that you cannot love until you receive your new glorified body or are you just trying to splain MH.
Well, if I can not love then I guess I should hate. Now, where do I start...Hmmmmm. Nope, don't feel good. Capable or not I am compelled to love. Is that a sin or what I am supposed to behold ? Wherefore, behold Hate!
Who encourages hate ? Who says God does not allow Love ? Who says you can't Love or meet Gods expectations? Who says God is just going to send you on your way, spit you out, not even know you? Who puts all this doubt in your head?
Any guesses?
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becauseHElives
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Michael Harrison Yahweh never ask us to do anything we can not do!
you need to understand just basics, even the evil are able to love....
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
you try to b so super spiritual you miss God completely!
quote:
Luke 7: ....
36And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.
37And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,
38And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.
39Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.
40And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.
41There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
42And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
43Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.
44And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
45Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
46My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
47Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
49And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
50And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
this show how we demonstrate love
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Found in Him
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Good grief!
How can ANYONE close their eyes...picture The Lord of Heaven hanging on a cross FOR THEIR SINS and NOT see a love so compelling for them????
How can they in turn, say to themselves, He died for me because He would have to take over me... I am incapable of returning love to Him?????
DO YOU LOVE HIM FOR WHAT HE DID FOR YOU????
If the answer is yes...Then PLEASE honor Him by starting a RELATIONSHIP with Him where He can lead you to love others.
When we stand before Him we will not receive reward for our -knowledge- of Him... BUT our actions based on our -love- for Him.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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I think when Michael Harrison said, "you cannot love", what he meant is that we are hopelessly sinful and only Christ IN us IS LOVE and only He can be love in us, and for us. But we ourselves do not become LOVE until we receive our glorified bodies.
But in the meantime Christ IN us can be LOVE FOR US on our behalf, if we stopping trying to be "lovely" ourselves which we are incapable of (witness even the Christian forums).
Wherefore, Behold the Man!
love (what?), Eden
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