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Author
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Topic: Can you hate? Do you?
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
quote:
Have you ever realized that by leaning to God one can virtually crush all their presumptuous sin but can never do every little jot of the Mosaic covenant and as it is wriiten
quote:
said rochester
I don't have to. Jesus does! My part is to trust Him to, and not to overstep HIM.
Now I didn't say it. He did. "He that is perfect shall be 'as' his master." For what purpose was this said if it were not a possibility? Furthermore, how shall he be 'as' his master if he cannot attain to what is described in this verse? Does no one think? Did Michael make the rules? Quite simply, Rochester, almost without exception, believers, (I should say half believers) ignore scripture and follow their own conclusions. For look at it like this. Suppose that it read: He that is not perfect, is stupidly in a stupor, but his pitiful behind will be saved one day! Now what kind of person would God be if HE said that?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
I never know wildb if you are saying this, or something else. Of course one is not condemed to hell if he sins. That doesn't mean that he cannot take sin for granted and manage to go there anyway. For if he is caught in a snare, he might not get out, especially if he treats it lightly. So you have to know that when I say sin can take a believer to hell, it is if his heart is turned from the Lord. And the reason a person should fear is because "The lion wanders about seeking whom he may devour in sin." And (Paul said) "Of whatsoever a man is overcome, he is in bondage to." Thererfore he is not in bondage to Christ.
But scripture says if one treats lightly, sin, the others are to disassociate from him (you know, hating the garment spotted with the 'flesh', and so on.) But if one says it is ok to sin, and continues in it, he may be in danger. Truly! Scripture says to 'hate' sin.
See my post on "Christ in you the "HOPE" of forever in glory." For if you fall away, your hope is gone, however stubbornly you cling to your notion.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
Rochester, you dissapoint me. You speak swellingly of dedication, and perserverance. How can you not get it? To be sure, you, like the rest, do not read (the posts), but read 'at' them. How can you absorb them and understand? So let me deviate for a moment. In your first verse, did you not, or are you unable to see the first emboldened word "IF"? Yet your characterization of the scripture is "when!" How is it that you take that position? How is it that you take that position when Jesus died to give us 'victory over sin?' You are implying that one is condemned to sin against his will.
And what struggles of Paul? You are using your experience as your standard, and not the word of God. Most people do. So you are not alone. But Paul was not illustrating defeat. He was illustrating the obstacles one will encounter. Yet he was not saying that the obstacles would overcome. Else why would scripture speak of overcoming, and of overcoming faith? After all, what is overcoming faith? Is it something that believes everything will be ok even though one is horribly defeated. You do not know Him well if this is how you believe.
I have fun with the 'perfect' label. For it stirs people up. But it is not righteous indignation. It is conviction. Yet it is not recognized as such. It is because one's conscience is pricked that he or she attacks the speaker, and accuses him of being self deceived. Yet scripture is as clear as springwater about what it says. The problem is, that the reader, in reading scripture, beholds himself as in a glass, and upon turning away, forgets who he is (James). Or worse yet, he does not see who he is in light of scripture.
I have spoken lots about this stuff since you have come around. You have not read? ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
quote:
Have you ever realized that by leaning to God one can virtually crush all their presumptuous sin but can never do every little jot of the Mosaic covenant and as it is wriiten
This is not what scripture says! It does not differentiate presumptious sin from any other sin. Can a man have a 'good' conscience, if he is in sin?
1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
quote:
Galatians 3:13) "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree"
That Christ hath redeemed us by hanging on a tree, have you not read that we are: (Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. ) Do we walk in a newness of life which is 'sin'? Where then is the newness? Are you not baptized into His death. Did HE not die so that we would not have to? If we die, are not our sins on the Cross. Do we not live 'by' Him, and not by sin?
quote:
Christ set us free from the law that we could never live, the law that was righteous, but we unrighteous, therefore we are doomed save the fact that we abide in Christ,
We do not 'abide' in Christ if we are sinning. quote:
so unless there is not one sin that you commit out of ignorance out the Mosaic law, then you are not perfect.
As I recall, even in the OT there was a sacrifice for 'unknown' sin. Did Christ overlook this sacrifice when HE gave HIS life? quote:
It is willfull and presumptuous sin that will hurt a person and keep the wall of perdition up. As for me, I am ONLY saved by Christ Jesus and apart from Him, I am nothing.
[/b]
Now that is the saddest thing you could say. For the way you said it is as though you are implying that "I" am 'doing' something which 'merits' favor with God, which is as though it is me who is overcoming sin. If that were true, Christ would not have had to die. For you or I could have bridged the gap to heaven without Him. But that is not how it works. ![[type]](graemlins/type.gif) (Didn't know I would be typing tonight. There is so much to say here.)
So let me condense this for the moment. Jesus died to replace you. Let me say it different ways. Jesus replaced you by dying on the Cross. HE replaced you ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif) so you would not have to endure it. But Jesus replaced you in dying, so that HE can replace you in living. The question is, does HE replace you in living? If so, then HE delivers you from sin, currently. If you reject this, you reject the work of the Cross, and the life of your savior.
Since this is so long, I will leave it at that for a few moments.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
Wild,
I agree with you.
Pro 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son [in whom] he delighteth.
Hbr 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
Your movie does clearly depict your interpretation of keeping the commandments well, and makes the point for me. But, hey, if once saved always saved, you can think and do as you want, and get away with it? No?
No. Once sealed always sealed until the day of redemption means "IF" you willingly sin you get chastised and there is a sin unto death to the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
Your movie does clearly depict your interpretation of keeping the commandments well, and makes the point for me. But, hey, if once saved always saved, you can think and do as you want, and get away with it? No?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Copper25
Advanced Member
Member # 7464
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Whew! What a list. Have you ever read it? Well, did you ever consider it? I mean, did you really sit down and think about it? It is pretty exhaustive. Look at all it says to hate! But, in the back of your mind are you going, "check, check, uhm skip that one, and check?" Then your list is incomplete. And what of it? It is a qualification. If you do not these, you cannot be HIS disciple. This writer doesn't say this. Scripture does!
Now disciple means something like: follower of, and learner of. As a qualification, this list implies that one cannot 'learn of Him', so to be a follower if he or she does not first accomplish these things. But most feel that they have already arrived. Never mind these things. Yet what this means is that if you cannot 'learn of me', and then 'you can't realize who I am'. In other words, a disciple is someone whom Jesus reveals Himself to, and unless one meets the qualifications, HE does not, and you are straining at gnats by not entering at the straight gate, and narrow way, through the qualifications. So, why are you preaching?
Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as [Christlike, or truly representing] his master. 1Jn 4:17 because as he is [if we pass the qualifications], so are we in this world.
By the way, don't read this!
if any man think of himself perfect, that what need has he for a savior? If any man think that he is not a sinner, then he lies and the truth is not in him, and if that man thinks that he is perfect and currently sinless, without sin, he is blind and does not know how needy he is. Only by the Lord, the only one to walk this earth his entire life perfectly, is one saved. Now I ask you this Michael, Jesus says "Perfect" but out of curiousity have you considered paul's struggle or why John wrote that
1 John 2:1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous
Have you ever realized that by leaning to God one can virtually crush all their presumptuous sin but can never do every little jot of the Mosaic covenant and as it is wriiten
Galatians 3:13) "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree"
Christ set us free from the law that we could never live, the law that was righteous, but we unrighteous, therefore we are doomed save the fact that we abide in Christ, so unless there is not one sin that you commit out of ignorance out the Mosaic law, then you are not perfect. It is willfull and presumptuous sin that will hurt a person and keep the wall of perdition up. As for me, I am ONLY saved by Christ Jesus and apart from Him, I am nothing.
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Isaiah 40:6) The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field
Posts: 262 | From: Rochester, NY | Registered: Nov 2008
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
Because I feed the right dog in my soul.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
My point exactly!
There would be no sign given, you said once, except of Jonah and the whale. How will we know you made it?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
If you have read this post, you have no excuse. It will be as a witness against you.
Your cult tactics don't scare me.
Matt.10
[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Michael Harrison
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Member # 6801
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posted
If you have read this post, you have no excuse. It will be as a witness against you.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
Prov.6
[16] These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
[17] A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
[18] An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
[19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Whew! What a list. Have you ever read it? Well, did you ever consider it? I mean, did you really sit down and think about it? It is pretty exhaustive. Look at all it says to hate! But, in the back of your mind are you going, "check, check, uhm skip that one, and check?" Then your list is incomplete. And what of it? It is a qualification list. If you do not these, you cannot be HIS disciple. This writer doesn't say this. Scripture does!
Now disciple means something like: follower of, and learner of. As qualifying, this list implies that one cannot 'learn of Him', so to be a follower if he or she does not first accomplish, or obey these things. But most feel that they have already arrived, and never mind these things. Yet what this list means is that if you cannot 'learn of me', then 'you can't realize who I am'. In other words, a disciple is someone whom Jesus reveals Himself to, and unless one meets these qualifications, Jesus does not, and one is straining at gnats verily, by not entering at the straight gate, and narrow way, through the qualifications. So, why then are you preaching? He who entereth not by the gate is a thief and a robber.
Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
The disciple is not 'above' his master, yet, it says, everyone that is 'perfect' shall be 'AS' his master. He shall be 'AS'. So, what is it to be 'as'? You are as Christ in this world. You are Jesus to the people, but as His ambassador. And what is the 'qualification' here? "Everyone that is 'perfect'!!!" It is a qualification. But it is a qualification that everyone wants to skip. So do you think you are perfect? You don't. Then why do you suppose you represent Him?
Don't stone the speaker thinking and accusing that he feels himself better than you. Ponder the word which poses qualifications which God has made attainable, which you are to match if you are to see the 'results' you are trying for. Because what happens is (look at the churches and get a witness) we 'work it up' in the absence of the 'feeling'. But that is not HIS way, for if one does not believe it, look at the results! Are they what you are sure should be there?
Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as [Christlike, or truly representing] his master. 1Jn 4:17 because as he is [if we pass the qualifications], so are we in this world.
By the way, don't read this!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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