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Topic: A Disciple of Christ is recognizable to All
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bluefrog
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EDEN...According to your comments on the other board, you are too busy to read my answers and you will learn what you will learn. If you have no time to read these posts or respond to them then I see no reason to waste my time answering.
I am not really in that type of mood, just going along with you on this.
If you had read about the gifts you would have known the answers.
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Eden
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bluefrog wrote quote:
Subject: A Disciple of Christ is recognizable to All.
That is the way it is supposed to be isn't it?
Out of curiosity, what are some of you doing in your discipleship? Seems it would be sort of interesting to hear about. Maybe even how you came about knowing your task or tasks. How long did it take to prepare you or do you know? Did others recognize your gift or gifts? Have you been asked to work outside your gifts, and how did that work out? Stuff like that.
To be a disciple is in Greek a "mastetes" or "one who is learning from God". The things you are asking are associated with evangelists, not with disciples.
An evangelist may have a task or tasks to do according his or her abilities or "gifts". Plus I don't think ANYONE ever works OUTSIDE their gifts, that would be like asking you to operate a giant crane when all you have is an Oklahoma Driver's License. Ain't gonna happen. God is NO Dummie. He knows who is qualified for what.
But in any case you are describing evangelists with those questions, not disciples or "mastetes" or "one who is learning from God".
Although it may be that God gives the mastetes disciple tasks to practice, like homework.
love, Eden
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bluefrog
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Subject: A Disciple of Christ is recognizable to All.
That is the way it is supposed to be isn't it?
Out of curiosity, what are some of you doing in your discipleship ? Seems it would be sort of interesting to hear about. Maybe even how you came about knowing your task or tasks. How long did it take to prepare you or do you know? Did others recognize your gift or gifts ? Have you been asked to work outside your gifts, and how did that work out ? Stuff like that.
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becauseHElives
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Matthew 11:29 become my disciple Yahshua said...Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
I am convinced that in the early days of the church that the New believers understood that "baptism into Christ" meant "entering discipleship". There was no dichotomy between the two. (oneinchrist) ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
1Th 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
1Jo 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
Matthew 5:44 "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
Found in Him I like your views very much...
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Found in Him
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Hi Eden,
As far as the fruit...I respectfully fear the Gardener!
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
As far as the love... I respectfully fear the sight giver!
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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Found in Him wrote quote:
The list comes from the bible--
Okay, and how are YOU doing with the list, pretty good? quote:
And {Eden) you forgot to answer the second way we know His disciples. Love is one, fruit is the other.
Okay, and how are YOU doing with your fruit, pretty good?
Say on a scale of 0 to 100, what number would you give your ability to do love items #1 thru #16, and how your fruit is doing, up to now?
love, Eden
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Found in Him
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The list comes from the bible--
And you forgot to answer the second way we know His disciples. Love is one, fruit is the other. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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Found in Him made a list of what love means and does, and here is it in short form:
#1 -- It is the great motivator
#2 -- It is patient
#3 -- It is kind
#4 -- It is not jealous
#5 -- It does not brag
#6 -- It is not arrogant
#7 -- It does not act unbecomingly
#8 -- It does not seek its own
#9 -- It is not easily provoked
#10 -- It keeps no record of wrongs
#11 -- It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rather rejoices with the truth
#12 -- It bears all things
#13 -- It believes all things
#14 -- It hopes all things
#15 -- It endures all things
#16 -- It never fails
So Found in Him, tell me how YOU are doing in all of these things? How are you doing for instance with #9, #12, #13, #14, #15, and #16, pretty good? And better than me, I hope?
love, Eden
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Found in Him
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Paul seems to sum it up in 1 Corinthians 13...
#1 -- It is the great motivator (vs. 1-3) --- Nothing we do, no matter how noble and good, is of any profit if it is not done in love! It may well be the spiritual fruit of love that Jesus is speaking of in Matt. 7:15-23 (and the lack thereof).
#2 -- It is patient (vs. 4) --- This is the Greek word makrothumeo which means "to be even-tempered; long-suffering; to exercise patience toward; to bear long with." The apostle Paul writes, "And we urge you, brethren.....be patient with all men.....seeking after that which is good for one another" (I Thess. 5:14-15). This word is also listed as one of the evidences of a Spirit-filled servant of God (II Cor. 6:6); as a fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22); as an evidence of walking worthily (Eph. 4:2); as an evidence of having been chosen by God (Col. 3:12); and as a condition for inheriting the promises of God (Heb. 6:12).
#3 -- It is kind (vs. 4) --- Chresteuomai is the Greek word Paul uses here. It means "to be kind; goodness and graciousness of heart; a gentle spirit." One commentator translates this phrase: "Love is mellow." It is listed as one of the evidences of a Spirit-filled servant of God (II Cor. 6:6); as a fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22); and as an evidence of having been chosen by God (Col. 3:12). "Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you" (Eph. 4:32). See also Luke 6:27-38 (especially vs. 35).
#4 -- It is not jealous (vs. 4) --- This is the Greek word zeloo. It means "to be jealous, envious, spiteful." It comes from a root word which signifies "to boil over." "You are envious and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel" (James 4:2). "Let us behave properly.....not in strife and jealousy" (Rom. 13:13). It is a work of the flesh, not a fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:20; I Cor. 3:3). It is earthly and demonic and leads to chaos (James 3:14-16).
#5 -- It does not brag (vs. 4) --- Paul here uses the Greek word perpereuomai, which means "to be a braggart; to boast; to elevate one's self or one's own accomplishments." One Greek Lexicon refers to such a one as a self-serving "windbag!" Love does not act in such a way as to call attention to itself or its deeds; love acts for love's sake, not for personal glory or reward! See: Matt. 6:1-4.
#6 -- It is not arrogant (vs. 4) --- This is the Greek word phusioo, which means "to be inflated; puffed up." It is used in the New Covenant writings to refer to those puffed up with pride. One is not to "think more highly of himself than he ought to think" (Rom. 12:3). Such puffing up is caused by a mind set on the flesh, rather than on Christ (Col. 2:18). Remember: Puffing himself up is what a bull-frog does just before he croaks!! An inflated ego can be disastrous, not only to yourself, but also to others. "Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up" (I Cor. 8:1).
#7 -- It does not act unbecomingly (vs. 5) --- Aschemoneo is the Greek word employed here. It means "to behave in an unbecoming manner; unseemly behavior; to behave disgracefully, dishonorably." It is living or behaving in such a way as to bring shame upon Christ, His church, or yourself. For such ones "the black darkness has been reserved forever" (Jude 13).
#8 -- It does not seek its own (vs. 5) --- The NIV renders this phrase: "It is not self-seeking." Love does not pursue its own self interests, it is more concerned with the needs of others. "Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to his edification" (Rom. 15:2).
#9 -- It is not easily provoked (vs. 5) --- This is the Greek word paroxuno, which means "to stir up, irritate, rouse to anger; to incite one to fits of anger and sharp contention." "Enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions" are all works of the flesh (Gal. 5:20), and "those who practice such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (vs. 21). "A quick-tempered man does foolish things" (Prov. 14:29). "A hot-tempered man stirs up strife, but the slow to anger pacifies contention" (Prov. 15:18). "A man's wisdom makes him slow to anger, and it is his glory to overlook an offense" (Prov. 19:11). "Do not make friends with a hot-tempered man, do not associate with one easily angered, or you may learn his ways and get yourself ensnared" (Prov. 22:24-25). "A fool always loses his temper, but a wise man holds it back" (Prov. 29:11). "An angry man stirs up strife, and a hot-tempered man commits many sins" (Prov. 29:22).
#10 -- It keeps no record of wrongs (vs. 5) --- Paul used the Greek word logizomai here, which means "to count, calculate; to enumerate or set down as a matter of record; to list; to keep an accounting of." This could refer to either (a) wrongs one has suffered---as the NASB translates it, or (b) wrongs that another has committed. Genuine love does not keep a list of wrongs suffered or of the weaknesses, shortcomings, and failings of others. "A worthless man digs up evil" (Prov. 16:27), but "he who covers over an offense promotes love" (Prov. 17:9).
#11 -- It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rather rejoices with the truth (vs. 6) --- Condemnation lies in store for those who refuse to live according to Truth, and who take some perverse delight in acts of unrighteousness (II Thess. 2:12). "Love does not seek to make itself distinctive by tracking down and pointing out what is wrong; it gladly sinks its own identity to rejoice with others at what is right" (C.K. Barrett, A Commentary on the First Epistle to the Corinthians, p. 304).
#12 -- It bears all things (vs. 7) --- This is the Greek word stego, which means "to cover; to contain within (the noun form of this verb is "roof"); to protect, or preserve by covering; to keep off, or bear up against, something which threatens" (W.E.Vine, An Expository Dictionary of NT Words). The NIV translates this: "It always protects." "There is no limit to love's forbearance" (NAB, St. Joseph edition). "Love covers the faults of others rather than delighting in them" (The Expositor's Bible Commentary, Vol. 10, p. 268). The Living Bible renders this phrase: "If you love someone you will be loyal to him no matter what the cost." Love stands by the weak, and protects them, and strengthens them in spite of their weaknesses, and seeks to build them up (Rom. 15:1-2). As one commentator put it, "Love provides a place for others to fail and try again." A man who loves his wife does not broadcast her flaws and failings to the world, nor does he constantly remind her of them, rather he contains them within his love, and directs his heart toward her positive qualities. This is how the children of God should behave toward one another! "Men, you are brethren, why do you injure one another?!" (Acts 7:26).
#13 -- It believes all things (vs. 7) --- Paul uses the Greek word pisteuo here, which means "to believe; to have faith or confidence in; to trust" (W.E. Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words). When it appears in the form of an adjective, it is often translated "trustworthy." The NIV translates this phrase: "Always trusts." "There is no limit to love's trust" (NAB, St. Joseph edition). "Love refuses to yield to suspicions of doubt. The flesh is ready to believe all things about a brother and a fellow man in an evil sense. Love does the opposite, it is confident to the last" (R.C.H. Lenski, The Interpretation of St. Paul's First & Second Epistles to the Corinthians, p. 560). Martin Luther says that love will prompt one to do the following for a brother: "Excuse him, speak well of him, and put the best construction on everything." "It is ever ready to believe the best of every person, and will credit no evil of any but on the most positive evidence; it gladly receives whatever may tend to the advantage of any person whose character may have suffered from the verbal abuse of another" (Adam Clarke's Commentary, Vol. 6, p. 270).
#14 -- It hopes all things (vs. 7) --- This is the Greek word elpizo, which means "to hope; favorable & confident expectation; it is not infrequently translated by the verb 'to trust'" (W.E. Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words). "To repose hope and confidence in; to trust" (The Analytical Greek Lexicon). Love leads us to the point where we cast off pessimism and confidently expect only the best from one another; love trusts the other person to do his best and to do what is right. When we are devoted to one another in love, this "hope" leads us into rejoicing (Rom. 12:12). We "abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit" (Rom. 15:13). This "hope" in one another must be "firmly grounded" (II Cor. 1:7).
#15 -- It endures all things (vs. 7) --- Paul uses the Greek word hupomeno, which means "patient endurance; to bear up under some load; to persevere courageously." "To remain instead of fleeing; to stand one's ground, hold out, endure in trouble, affliction & persecution" (Arndt & Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the NT and Other Early Christian Literature, p. 845). "And you will be hated by all on account of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved" (Matt. 10:22). "Most people's love will grow cold, but the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved" (Matt. 24:12-13). Those who are devoted to one another in brotherly love, persevere in the face of tribulation (Rom. 12:12). "Bear fruit with patient endurance" (Luke 8:15). "You will be hated.....but by your endurance you will gain your souls" (Luke 21:17, 19). "Let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus.....For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you may not grow weary and lose heart" (Heb. 12:1-3). (See also: Rom. 5:3-5; James 1:2-4; 5:11; II Peter 1:5-11). "The man 'endures' who, under a great siege of trials, bears up and does not lose heart and courage" (R.C. Trench). "Love bears up under all persecutions and mal-treatment from open enemies and professed friends; bearing these adversities with an even mind, and trusting in God" (Adam Clarke's Commentary, Vol. 6, p. 270).
#16 -- It never fails (vs. 8) --- This is the Greek word pipto, which means "to fall; to fail; to fall into ruins; to become null and void; to collapse into extinction." When our faith and our relationships are built on the solid foundation of love, they will never collapse! (See Matt. 7:24-27). "A house divided against itself falls" (Luke 11:17). "Love is the perfect bond of unity" (Col. 3:14); where love is, there can never be failure.....but where love is not, there can never be success!
Love is the greatest force in the universe (I Cor. 13:13). Indeed, "God IS love!!" (I John 4:8, 16). To be "born of God" and to "know God," we must love one another, for "love is from God" (I John 4:7). Before God will abide in us, we must abide in love (I John 4:16). To profess love for God, without showing love for one another, marks us as a liar (I John 4:20).
Love is critical; our salvation depends on it! Without love, we will never see God. Thus, Paul commands, "Pursue love" (I Cor. 14:1). This is the Greek word dioko, which means "to pursue after with a persecuting fervor or zeal; to rapidly & eagerly follow after."
Love is the fulfillment of all the Law. If there is any commandment, it is summed up by love for one another and love for God. It is by love that the world will know that we are truly the disciples of Christ. "The one who says he is in the light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. The one who loves his brother abides in the light and there is no cause for stumbling in him" (I John 2:9-10). "Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth" (I John 3:18).
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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Found in Him wrote to Eden quote:
What two things did Jesus say would be recognizable in a disciple?
It is these two things, right?
1 John 3:23
And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
So do you think it is easy to love one another or do you think that a lot of "who were are from since we were born" gets in the way of loving each other?
And on a Bible forum like this, what would constitute "loving one another" in your opinion, Found in Him?
Have you read some of the worldly blogs like CBSnews blog, what UNSAVED people write there? It is shocking the depravity exhibited there by people with access to computers and with access to the Invisible Internet.
By comparison we Christians ARE being very DECENT to each other, we have kept name-calling to a minimum even though we are discussing Bible doctrine, we try to stay calm and we try to reply with love to whatever is said to us.
But let's look at this case. I don't care that people write stuff about my stuff, but you do care that people write stuff about your stuff, unless they write the kind of stuff that you think is the "right stuff" or "love stuff".
So Found in Him, please explain to me how we can be "more loving" on this or any bbs in your opinion? I have frankly found that ALL Christian bulletin boards have SOME discord on it, and to me this bbs here is one of the more "loving ones", and DEFINITELY more loving than the depraved stuff that is written by UNbelievers on things like CBSnews blog or wherever.
But tell me how you think we could do better?
1 John 3:23
And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
love, Eden
"Christ Jesus our Redeemer"
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Found in Him
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
The title of this Topic is A Disciple of Christ is recognizable to All.
Since the definition of a disciple is in Greek a "mastetes", or "one who learns" or "one who studies", such a disciple would have to be recognizable from "what he has learned".
love, Eden
But that's not how Jesus said that we would know or recognize another disciple is it???
What two things did Jesus say would be recognizable in a disciple?
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Eden
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The title of this Topic is A Disciple of Christ is recognizable to All.
Since the definition of a disciple is in Greek a "mastetes", or "one who learns" or "one who studies", such a disciple would have to be recognizable from "what he has learned".
love, Eden
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bluefrog
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Well said.
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becauseHElives
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What is the significance of the transfiguration of Jesus Christ?
"After six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There He was transfigured before them. His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus. Peter said to Jesus, 'Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters - one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.' (He did not know what to say, they were so frightened.) Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: 'This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!' Suddenly, when they looked around, they no longer saw anyone with them except Jesus. As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead" (Mark 9:2-9).
The account of the transfiguration of Jesus Christ as recorded here in Mark (parallel passages are found in Matthew 17:1-3 and Luke 9:28-36) is a demonstration to three witnesses that Jesus Christ was who He claimed to be. In all three accounts of the transfiguration of Jesus Christ, we are given the names of the three disciples who accompanied Jesus and who stood as human witnesses to the glory that was Christ's. There were also three heavenly witnesses, Moses, Elijah, and the voice of God from heaven. Therefore, the Old Testament law of three witnesses required to attest to any fact (Deuteronomy 19:15) was satisfied both in earth and in heaven.
The word "transfigured" is a very interesting word. The Greek word is "metamorpho" and it means to transform, literally or figuratively to metamorphose, or to change. The word is a verb that means to change into another form. It also means to change the outside to match the inside. The prefix "meta" means to change and the "morphe" means form. In the case of the transfiguration of Jesus Christ it means to match the outside with the reality of the inside. To change the outward so that it matches the inward reality. Jesus' divine nature was "veiled" (Hebrews 10:20) in human form and the transfiguration was a glimpse of that glory. Therefore, the transfiguration of Jesus Christ displayed the Shekinah glory of God incarnate in the Son. The voice of God attesting to the truth of Jesus' Sonship was the second time God's voice was heard. The first time was at Jesus' baptism into His public ministry by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:7; Mark 1:11; Luke 3:22).
Therefore, the transfiguration of Jesus Christ was a unique display of His divine character and a glimpse of the glory, which Jesus had before He came to earth in human form. This truth is emphasized for us in a passage in the Apostle Paul's letter to Phillippi. "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form (morphe) of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form (morphe) of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2:5-11).
The Son of God came to earth in the form of a man to be the true servant of God and to gift mankind with the greatest gift ever given, eternal life. The transfiguration of Jesus Christ was a visible sign in the presence of reliable witnesses of the reality of the power of God and the glory, which is Christ Jesus.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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bluefrog
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Sorry...I forgetted: Us frogs find it hard to say but I will try:
Dispensational Interpretation, means understanding the different ways God handled us in each dispensational period.
By the way, it sure is strange how different folks understand this Disciple thang. When you ask around you will find that most think it is talking about those 12 guys with Christ. Very few think of it as one being a learner or student. They usually think those guys knew it all by listening to Jesus and went out and were teachers, after that, they died. Most of the old timers claim to be disciples and when they do they are aware of their spiritual gifts of discipleship. The main thing for us is to know what to do with our learning. The scriptures say that our gifts will be recognized by others too.
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bluefrog
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BECAUSE HE LIVES... It is none of my business and I'm not trying to stir anyone up. I would however like to suggest that your concern about the salvation of WildB seems to be more your problem than his, even though it is nice to know someone is concerned. We all know what you mean but please consider the circumstances and his relationship with God not based on others opinions of this type.
Of course it is important for a Christian to learn the scriptures but it is not a requirement to be saved and it can take a good while to gather the knowledge.
There has been other discussion here about dispensations. Well, dispensations are simply different time periods where God handled us in different ways. That's all. We get it from the Greek word "oikonomia" which is where we get "economy" which talks about stewardship. There is nothing wrong with that but it can mislead us with our English understanding.
1 Cor 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward; but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel (I have been entrusted with a stewardship, therefore I am duty bound to fulfil it)is commited unto me.
Here He speaks of the divine plan of salvation:
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him;
v11 In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will;
As best I can tell there are seven distinct dispensational periods:
Innocence-Creation to the Fall
Conscience-Adam to the Flood
Human Government-Noah to Abraham
Promise-Abraham to Moses
Law-Moses to the death of Christ
Grace-Resurrection to Second Coming of Christ
Kingdom-Christ's visible rule
Even though there are different dispensations, salvation has been a gift of grace, which we can not earn. In each age a faith response to God's self revelation has been the onliest way to that personal relationship that we love so well with Him.
Jist Uno more thang...Asking a person to understand what is required of them prior to being saved is scriptural, and I have furnished it before. But, you certainly don't need to know the whole deal to be saved, and especially the use of your gifts. You just don't go for it blindly. rivit
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becauseHElives
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wildB, your misunderstanding of the scriptures gives me great concern for your salvation?
please don't get me wrong I know I am not your judge, Yahweh is, but wildB please understand, Yahshua's words....many will say Lord, Lord only to hear Him reply back depart from me you workers of lawlessness.......
What Is A Disciple?
* Someone who continues in Jesus' Word.
JOHN 8:31 NKJ
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
God's Word is the input that makes you like Jesus, and guides you in the way you should go. To be Jesus' disciple, you must continue in God's Word, and live in it.
* Someone who becomes like the teacher.
LUKE 6:40 NKJ
40 "A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly trained will be like his teacher.
A disciple is supposed to end up as a duplicate of Jesus Christ.
ROMANS 8:29 NKJ
29 . . . He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
The end result of being a disciple should be a reproduction of the teacher, who will do the same things the teacher did.
JOHN 14:12 NKJ
12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
We are supposed to train people, by example, to do all that Jesus commanded His original disciples.
MATTHEW 28:20 NKJ
20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you . . . ."
A disciple is similar to an apprentice.
Disciples are what we should be producing through our evangelism -- not just converts inoculated with a little bit of Jesus.
* Someone who loves.
JOHN 13:35 NKJ
35 "By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
Walking in love is not natural for an unsaved person. When you were born again you received a new nature. The love of God is in your heart (Romans 5:5). To exercise that divine nature and walk in it fully, requires continuing commitment and effort.
* Someone who renounces all rights.
LUKE 14:33 NKJ
33 "So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.
Jesus does not require you to forsake all literally, to begin following Him, but you must be ready to. (For example see John 20:10.)
To be Jesus' disciple, you must be ready and willing to give up anything, including your life. Jesus is Lord -- not you!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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oneinchrist
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Hi again Wild B,
I would like to clear something up as to prevent any further confusion. There is "dispensation" which means "stewardship" and then there is "dispensational interpretation" which is the most recent to appear in church history. The "dispensational" scheme of redemptive history presupposes two different peoples of God throughout history--Israel and the Church--and, therefore, two programs of prophecy.
So when you speak of the "dispensation" of the grace of God you are speaking of the "stewardship" of the grace of God...........but when you are talking about two gospels (the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace) I am assuming that you are talking about a "dispensational interpretation". From what I understand about "dispensational interpretation" , its primary focus is on the book of Revelation. The "Classical interpretation" would be a contrasting type of interpretation of end-times prophecy.
Now, I am not sure if the two gospel theory is an original part of "dispensational interpretation" or if it is an offshoot interpretation that someone came up with based on their personal understanding of "dispensational interpretation". I have a tendency to lean towards the latter explanation due to the fact that my bible states in the footnotes for Galatians 2 vs. 7-10 ....God has only one gospel, but He allocates different spheres and cultures in which to preach it.
I just want to make sure that we are on the same page when it comes to the use of the terms "dispensation" and "dispensational interpretation".
With love in Christ, Daniel
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bluefrog
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ONE IN CHRIST...So your the one I agreed with.
Sorry bout that. I was confused.
Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross and come after Me, cannot be My disciple.
Luke 14:28 For which of you intending to build a tower sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
The Lord is saying that if you don't follow him you aren't His disciple. In verse 28 He says to prepare and figure if you can do the job, complete the course. He also went on to say that your type of dicipleship is already planned and it will be recognized.
Who can say what will come of this at the time that you turn your life over to God ? I think that people need to be more aware of what redemption means but I don't believe that the Holy Spirit will be held back. That is why He is sent, to lead and help us.
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oneinchrist
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Wild B,
Think about this for a moment. If a person is not ready or willing to be a disciple/follower of Jesus they are not going to receive the Holy Ghost. God will not give the Holy Ghost to a person who rejects Jesus Lordship. This is the very reason that I believe it is important, in baptism, to not only comfirm their belief in Jesus, but also their readiness to be His disciple. In the early days everyone that was baptized and added to the church was called a disciple.......it was understood. It needs to be understood today also.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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bluefrog
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WILD B AND ONEINCHRIST....Gentlemen, please forgive me. Somewhere down the line I got confused about who said what...
Twice I gave a detailed description as to what I thought the title of DISCIPLE was, during the OT and then after Christ was crucified. I also furnished scripture. The main point was that since the crucifiction DISCIPLE took on a different meaning. All saved persons become a DISCIPLE but DISCIPLE in different ways called GIFTS.
Later I thought that Wild B said that he thought that people should be told or tested to see if they realize what their responsibilities are as a Christian. The bible also says that they should, and I think I furnished the scripture on that.."planning the cost".
On the other hand, and I can't figure out who said it unless it was Wild B, one of you said it was unbiblical. Whew! So, who did say it was unbiblical ? Please. Thank You.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Wild B,
So baptism is unbiblical, consent to the Lordship of Jesus is unbiblical, repentance is unbiblical.......what else is unbiblical Wild B? I guess that does wipe out the gospels. Is there anyone else that agrees with Wild B? besides Bluefrog on baptism.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Again you drag a dead fish across the board.
I said that your statement,, "I believe that in baptism today there ought to be a verbal confirmation of the baptizees readiness to be a follower/disciple of Jesus before they are baptized in the Lords Name." Is not Biblical.
If it is show me of this VERBAL CONFIRMATION you believe so strongly in before being immersed.
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oneinchrist
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Wild B,
So baptism is unbiblical, consent to the Lordship of Jesus is unbiblical, repentance is unbiblical.......what else is unbiblical Wild B? I guess that does wipe out the gospels. Is there anyone else that agrees with Wild B? besides Bluefrog on baptism.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Wild B,
Seems to me you had that whole arsenal of weapons loaded up to blast at me even before I made my last post. Are you serious? or do you just think that you look more like a conquerer dropping a big bomb? I think you get a kick out of all this......like its a game.
And it seams to me that you BAITED the battle.
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bluefrog
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WILD B...On the subject of baptism I agree with you and it is practiced in some churches as you probably know. Some have also required marriage counceling prior to getting married.
I also tried to comment on scriptures but it didn't do any good. Lotsa luck.
Guess we could however, just sit at our puters and type scripture but wouldn't it work even better to read the bible and ignore the puter?
I like digging around in commentaries, because it does give other opinions. It also gives other scriptures to refer to. It works alright if you don't just take one commentary and run with it. Eventually it usually all fits together. Just a thought.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Wild B,
Our lessons should come straight from the bible.......not from mens interpretations of it. Otherwise, we will be found comparing theories to the bible, instead of comparing scripture to scripture.
With love in Christ, Daniel
I didnt think you read the post I posted. It brings you to much out of your comfort zone.
Well let me just say this formula of yours is very cultist, "I believe that in baptism today there ought to be a verbal confirmation of the baptizees readiness to be a follower/disciple of Jesus before they are baptized in the Lords Name." which is not Biblical.
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oneinchrist
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posted
Wild B,
Our lessons should come straight from the bible.......not from mens interpretations of it. Otherwise, we will be found comparing theories to the bible, instead of comparing scripture to scripture.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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WildB
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While the principles of God have to do with His character, His nature, the dispensations of God concern His dealings with those under Him, especially with man.
Many people have been frightened away from dispensationalism by the length of the word itself, especially since some who seek to rightly divide the Word have been called Ultradispensationalists! The root of this long word, however, has a very simple meaning, for the word dispense means simply to deal out. The word dispensation, then, means the act of dispensing or dealing out, or, that which is dispensed or dealt out. There are medical dispensaries for example, where medicines are dispensed to the poor. Sometimes these dispensations are conducted on a particular day of each week. Now such a dispensation of medicine may take a full twelve hours each week, but it does not follow from this that a dispensation is a period of twelve hours! Yet there are some who, when they think of dispensations, can think of nothing but periods of time! Indeed, one of the greatest Bible teachers of the past generation defined a dispensation as follows: "A dispensation is a period of time during which man is tested in respect of obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God."
This is incorrect, for a dispensation is not a period of time but the act of dealing out or that which is dealt out. The Bible teacher above referred to doubtless meant that a dispensation covers a period of time.
The word dispensation is not a mere theological term. It is used many times in the Bible, though not always translated thus. In Eph. 3:2, for example, Paul writes of "the dispensation of the grace of God, which is given me to you-ward." Just as the dispensation of the law was committed to Moses (John 1:17), so the dispensation of the grace of God was committed to Paul.
The organic meaning of the original word for dispensation (oikonomia) is house management, though its usage conforms closely to the English word dispensation. Sometimes this word is translated stewardship in the Authorized Version. This is interesting because the word steward (oikonomos), rather than meaning servant, as some have supposed, means house manager. The steward was the head servant, the one into whose hands the management of the house was committed. He dealt out the money for the household necessities, dispensed the food and clothing to the servants and children, paid the wages, etc. All was entrusted to him to dispense faithfully and wisely. He was the appointed dispenser of his Lord's goods and of the business of the household.2
Thus we read in Luke 12:42:
"And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward [oikonomos] whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?"
In Luke 16:1,2, where again the words oikonomos and oikonomia are translated steward and stewardship, we have the same idea:
"And He said also unto His disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
"And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? Give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward."
In I Cor. 9:16,17 this same word is again translated dispensation, but once more it conveys the same idea:
"For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for NECESSITY IS LAID UPON ME; yea, woe is unto me if I preach not the gospel!
"For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward; but [even] if against my will [I MUST do it, for] A DISPENSATION OF THE GOSPEL IS COMMITTED UNTO ME."
Note that in each of these cases the idea of responsibility is involved. It was "a faithful and wise steward" the Lord sought to set over his household. The rich man discharged his steward because he had wasted his goods. Necessity, or responsibility, was laid upon Paul because "a dispensation of the gospel" had been committed to him.
One of the clearest passages of all in this connection is found in I Cor. 4:1,2, where the Apostle Paul says:
"LET A MAN SO ACCOUNT OF US AS OF THE MINISTERS [SERVANTS] OF CHRIST AND STEWARDS [DISPENSERS] OF THE MYSTERIES OF GOD.
"MOREOVER, IT IS REQUIRED IN STEWARDS THAT A MAN BE FOUND FAITHFUL."
Let us get this meaning of the word dispensation clearly fixed in our minds. When we see that a dispensation involves responsibility rather than merely denoting a period of time, we will, if sincerely desirous to be in the will of God, seek to understand clearly and to carry out faithfully, the dispensation of the grace of God committed to us.
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WildB
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A principle, as we have used the word above, is a settled rule of morality or conduct. We respect men with principles; men who stand for the right, whatever the cost. God, of course, has the very highest principles and never deviates from them. He always did and always will hate sin. Sin always was and always will be contrary to His holy nature. In no age has this been any less so than in any other age. In like manner, God always did and always will delight in righteousness, mercy and love. God never has and never will deviate in the slightest degree from these principles.
The principle of law or justice, for example, has continued unchanged through the ages. No matter what the dispensation, when wrong is done God's sense of justice is offended. This may be simply demonstrated by three Scriptural examples:
Cain lived before the dispensation of the law by Moses. Cain murdered his brother Abel. Was this right or wrong? Did he get into trouble over it? He did, although the written law had not yet been given.
David lived under the law of Moses. He also committed murder. Was this right or wrong? Wrong, of course, and he also got into trouble over it.
You and I live after the law, under the dispensation of grace. Suppose we should commit murder, would that be right or wrong? Would we get into trouble over it-- with God? Would the fact that Christ bore our sins on Calvary, make murder any more right? Would God look upon it as less sinful because it took place under the dispensation of grace?
You say, in the case of the true believer today, the full legal penalty for the sin would still have been borne by Christ and, though he knew it not, David too was forgiven on this ground. But does not the very fact that David's sins and ours were paid for, rather than overlooked, prove that the principles of law and justice remain fixed?
The principle of grace is equally unchangeable. This may be simply demonstrated by one passage of Scripture: Rom. 4:1-6:
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
OK Wild B,
In "dispensational thinking", how much of the bible do we get to ignore? besides the old testament, the four gospels, and the letters to the 7 churches?
One of the first lessons the Bible student should learn is the difference between the principles and the dispensations of God.
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oneinchrist
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posted
OK Wild B,
In "dispensational thinking", how much of the bible do we get to ignore? besides the old testament, the four gospels, and the letters to the 7 churches?
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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bluefrog
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posted
Know what folks. I type and I type and all you do is eat the pages.
I spent some time telling you what disciples were then and now. Didn't anyone see that ?
Present day disciples do various things in order to honor the Lord. Presently we serve God by utilizing our GIFTS (I already told you that).
Do I need to furnish scripture ? We are all given gifts to serve the church, you know, the body of christ. Preaching, teaching, music, administrative, service, tongues, interpretation of tongues, blah blah. It also says that our gifts should be recognizable to all. Isn't that what the subject is? Isn't that what the scripture says ? It isn't complicated.
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oneinchrist
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Wild B,
Seems to me you had that whole arsenal of weapons loaded up to blast at me even before I made my last post. Are you serious? or do you just think that you look more like a conquerer dropping a big bomb? I think you get a kick out of all this......like its a game.
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
That is presumptuous thinking Wild B.
No one knows ahead of time how the Holy Spirit will manifest in thier life. We need to commit our life to following Jesus and doing the will of God, and leave the Holy Ghost do what the Holy Ghost is going to do.
With love in Christ, Daniel
No its dispensational thinking.
The Holy Spirit was not yet given to the 12 or 70, yet they were able to do as the Lord commissioned them to.
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yahsway
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Disciple from Nelsons Bible Dictionary:
Disciple-a student, learner, or pupil. In the Bible the word is used most often to refer to a follower of Jesus.
The word is rarely used in the OT. Isaiah used the term "disciple" to refer to those who are taught or instructed. (Is 8:16)
The word disciple is sometimes used in a more specific way to indicate the 12 apostles of Jesus.
In general, apostles refers to a small, inner group of Jesus's followers; disciples refers to a larger group of Jesus followers, such as the women who stood at Jesus' cross and discovered the empty tomb.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
By and large, Peter took it to the Jews and Paul took it to the Gentiles.
With love in Christ, Daniel
QUIZ
1. Where did the "transfiguration" of our Lord take place?
2. In what greater glory did Paul later see Christ?
3. What did the voice from heaven say at the "transfiguration"?
4. What was the significance of the "transfiguration"?
5. What did the voice from heaven say to Paul when he first saw the glorified Lord?
6. In what way was this significant?
7. How did the details of the "transfiguration" harmonize with Peter's ministry?
8. How did the details of the revelation of Christ to Paul harmonize with his ministry?
9. What had been the apostles' reaction to Christ's prediction of His death and resurrection?
10. How had Peter responded?
11. How should the "transfiguration" have affected this situation?
12. Give three Scriptures describing Saul's role as persecutor of Christ.
13. How did God reply to Saul's (and Israel's) rebellion against Christ?
14. Give one Scripture indicating that God began a new dispensation with the conversion of Saul.
15. Give one Scripture indicating the relation between Christ's rejection and Paul's suffering for Christ.
16. Give one Scripture indicating that we too are to suffer for Christ's rejection.
17. Give three indications that Peter's mission to Cornelius was one of the first steps in the unfolding of the mystery.
18. What was Peter's vision on Joppa's housetop intended to teach him?
19. What was Paul's vision in the temple intended to teach him?
20. What relation was there between Peter's visit to Cornelius and Paul's subsequent ministry among the Gentiles?
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oneinchrist
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That is presumptuous thinking Wild B.
No one knows ahead of time how the Holy Spirit will manifest in thier life. We need to commit our life to following Jesus and doing the will of God, and leave the Holy Ghost do what the Holy Ghost is going to do.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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WildB
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Then we should be exercising power and authority over all devils, cureing diseases and healing the sick.
And we should be preaching the kingdom of God, not The Lords death, burial and resurrection.
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oneinchrist
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Ok Wild B,
A disciple is a learner of Jesus.......one who puts himself subject to Jesus and His teachings. Please tell me, which member in the body of Christ is not a disciple by that definition?
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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WildB
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You didnt answer my 2 questions. You just pulled a dead fish across the page.
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oneinchrist
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Wild B,
Here you go again taunting the theory that there are two different gospels--the gospel of the Kingdom and the gospel of Grace.
There is only one gospel, and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ...... By and large, Peter took it to the Jews and Paul took it to the Gentiles.
Go to Acts 15: 6-11 and see for yourself that Peter fully understood Gods grace.
Your reliance upon mens interpretations of scripture, especially in regards to all these various dispensations, is going to lead you astray---and you are going to think that it is A Ok to ignore half of the New Testament. That is your choice.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hi Wild B,
I guess I dont see how the scriptures you provide oppose what I have said, so I am confounded by your response. As Christians, we are ALL disciples, regardless of our specific call.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Apostle/disciple is a specific call to those in the economy of the Kingdom that Christ was offering "The Jew"
Not the Body of Christ Paul set forth.
To what would you term one of the seventy?
Luke 10:1
After these things the LORD appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
And please explain why the modern day disciple is not able to do this.
Luke.9
[1] Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
[2] And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
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oneinchrist
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Hi Wild B,
I guess I dont see how the scriptures you provide oppose what I have said, so I am confounded by your response. As Christians, we are ALL disciples, regardless of our specific call.
Hebrews 12:7-8 If ye endure chastening, God deals with you as sons, for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which ALL HAVE BECOME PARTAKERS, then you are illegitimate and not sons.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hi Betty,
Please bear with me as I believe this is very important truth............you said that every
Christian SHOULD SEEK TO BE a disciple of Jesus....what I am trying to point out, which I believe is scriptural.....is that every true Christian IS a disciple of Jesus. Is there anyone that disagrees?
With love in Christ, Daniel
Yes the Bible.
Eph.4
[11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
1Cor.12
[29] Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
[30] Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
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oneinchrist
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Hi Betty,
Please bear with me as I believe this is very important truth............you said that every
Christian SHOULD SEEK TO BE a disciple of Jesus....what I am trying to point out, which I believe is scriptural.....is that every true Christian IS a disciple of Jesus. Is there anyone that disagrees?
With love in Christ, Daniel
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Found in Him
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posted
Betty,
No I didn't think you were trying to offend me. ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
My problem is I so often type away when something is on my heart and neglect to consider how another may perceive what I am trying to say! I have a terrible time putting my thoughts into words. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I am so glad that The Lord understands me. Sometimes in prayer it's as if He answers my question before I get outta my mouth... maybe He figures He will save us both some time?? ![[updown]](graemlins/updown.gif)
hehehe...
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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Betty Louise
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posted
Jeanie,
I hope, honey, that post was not offensive to you.
That was never my intention. I think every Christian should seek to be a disciple of Christ.
Walking with Jesus is not only a requirement but a privilege.
Betty
BlueFrog,
Thank you for asking. I took a pain pill and a muscle relaxer so right now I am feeling better.
I hope you are having a good day, yourself.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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bluefrog
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posted
Me sure am glad I sent my mouse here and squished it. ALL Good Stuff !!!!!!!!!
Me thinks that there are a gob of folks, young and old, but especially young who didn't know they were signing up to be disciples.
Luke 14;25 And there went great multitudes with Him; and He turned, and said unto them,
v26 If any man come to Me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethern, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
v27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after Me, cannot be My disciple.
v28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
The term DISCIPLE means a cople of different things. Jesus formed the first group who we all know about, the Big 12. They did give up everything but Jesus had planned it already and knew them. He also had to have them with Him, the ultimate disciples. In the OT days a disciple was a student usually under a rabbi.
After Jesus it meant a school of thought or a movement. It also meant one who believes and commits to obey everything Christ commanded.
"disciple" is not in the NT Epistles. Paul took young persons with him though.
Christian leaders were to be servants. As they grew and became gooder within the fellership of the church they became disciples only when their character and gifts were recognized by their congregation. stuff like that.
It didn't mean we all become street people and hit the road preaching. Well, not to most anyway.
To be a disciple we go for the gold like an athlete or a highly trained soldier. If you want it, know the gift, ya need to commit, set a goal and figure the cost it will take to get the trophy that lasts, not one that rots and breaks. (that's a figger of speach, don't ya know?)
So Betty, do ya feel gooder now ?
How many teen agers are out there who's parents wished they would be traveling disciples? LOL
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi Betty,
I think that we need to be careful how we view the teaching of Paul......regarding "saved as if by fire". If we think that it means that we can live our lives in constant rebellion towards God--then perhaps we do not understand "repentance towards God" and "faith towards the Lord Jesus."
As far as your testimony of being saved at 7 yrs old.......A very basic truth of the bible is that when we become a Christian, we are a disciple. Everyone that was baptized and added to the church was named a disciple......according to the book of Acts. If you are not taught that at a young age, I personally do not believe that God would hold you accountable as one who had resisted His authority. In other words, I hope that you dont think that I would think that you were on the way to Hell until you came to a better understanding of what it means to be a disciple/follower of Jesus.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596
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posted
Also Betty,
I do believe it is a growing process. Dying to ourselves and bearing fruit takes time. I do believe that those that Jesus is speaking of are those disciples that are not babes in Christ anymore.
Love you!
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009
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