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Author
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Topic: Two Party System
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BrianGrass1234
Advanced Member
Member # 5845
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posted
An understanding of the state needs to be made first before you decide how to use it. The state is institutionalized violence and all that it does is done by violence. So now what you need to do is ask yourself first of all, should a christian be using violence at all? If you say no, and believe Christ has called you to be a pacifist, then you should give no support to the state and be no part of it. If you believe violence is acceptable for defensive purposes, then a non coercive state is acceptable to you and the only function of the state for you to support and use would be in defense against aggression.(That's were I sit) If you believe that violence is a tool that is acceptable to use to assert ownership over others, then you need to read you Bible some more.
Now that you have established your position on the use of violence, then apply that to goals the various politicians and political parties are working for.
But let me say this lastly. Who is the perfect judge? Who will judge us all perfectly and punish or reward perfectly? If we all will be judged perfectly and be punished under perfect judgment, who are we to preempt that judgment and imperfectly punish? Would we not be taking God's role upon ourselves, when it is really up to God to decide who will be forgiven and who will be punished? We are called, I believe, to defend our neighbors as we are called to love them. We are not called to punish and seek revenge.
Posts: 203 | From: Weed, CA | Registered: Jun 2006
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
I don't get your point. But I do say as an Christian who lives in America we should vote for those who are not supporting abortion on demand.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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scythewieldor
unregistered
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posted
Dear Believers,
At some point, Jesus expects us to recognize that the yoke of men is not easy, and their burden is not light.
When we get there, when men have made us weary from carrying their loads for them, His invitation still remains open to us.
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Mt 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Look at the ones who put those burdens together, yet, will not touch them.
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Lu 11:45 Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also.
46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.
Mt 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Oh, lazy religious and legal word crafters who will not carry the burdens they assemble.
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scythewieldor
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posted
Dear Betty,
I do NOT care about the economy.
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Php 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Therefore, I do not have a share in the politics of money-lovers.
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1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
If the love of money is the root of all evil, then we get rid of abortion by chopping the root that nourishes it. This is accomplished by teaching the gentiles/nations the things Jesus said to teach them- the commandments which he gave to his disciples. When it comes to money, Jesus is very specific.
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Lu 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Lu 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
If, instead of lending and forgiving debts, the Christians have been borrowing, they have tried to split their loyalties between two masters- as the leading post in this thread demonstrates.
If, instead of selling and giving, Christians bought and kept, they have become subject to the very thing Jesus warned against in Mark.
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Mk 4:18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
Christians have been presented an identity crisis. Are they good Americans who are against Communism (or abortion, or the welfare state, etc.)? Are they good free market capitalists? Or, are they bad socialists.
There are people around us that use dialectical materialism expertly. Dialectical materialism is a psychological warfare technique used to force people into a paradigm by making them believe that there are only two paradigms- the "good" one and the "bad" one. In this way, we are spoiled, literally, through philosphy and vain deceit.
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Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Jesus is Lord of all. Faith (if I may use something besides a scripture for definition) is looking to Jesus with every expectation that, in our being obedient, He is always present as our Prince of Peace: but, in our disobedience, He is our corrector and forgiver.
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2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
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scythewieldor
unregistered
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posted
Dear Michael Harrison,
Your first response to this thread was full of radio talk show stuff I have known for over twenty years. I argued with that stuff before I committed to believing the Bible.
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1Ti 6:2 ...These things teach and exhort.
3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
6 ¶ But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
Co 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Is John McCain the last line of defense against the bad government? Or, is there a real Christ who is the wisdom of God and the power of God?
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1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
If the words of the Bible are just treated as something to use to get money from the superstitious, we will be spoiled through philosophy and vain deceit. Indeed, we have been spoiled by it, already.
The Republicans are no defenders of that Constitution, by the way. Nixon took this mess to a new level (making the present experience a foregone conclusion) by switching from a Constitutional gold standard to anti-Constitutional petrodollars so he could fight a war made too expensive for a gold standard because of the distance and the new technology he wanted.
Wages of Americans was NOT the source of inflation. Going off the gold standard allowed the Fedral Government to borrow money beyond the limits of good sense.
Spending tomorrows money today increases demand on the present supply of goods and services, driving prices up.
Wages must go up with prices. And the government liked that, too, because it put us into higher tax brackets, giving the politicians (and their sponsors) more access to our earnings.
Unfortunately, we are in the economy where today's money was spent yesterday. Many people do not understand that one.
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
As a practical matter, it is paramount to vote against Obama, and not to sit around in apathy. Myself, I am voting 'for' McCain. I have appreciated him since he was on Saddleback TV. And I am voting 'for' Sarah Palin. Otherwise there are only two candidates. One is going to get in.
And it comes back again to the fact that one must be defeated. Why? It is what I see. If you don't see it, my prayer time would be spent praying that you 'do' sooner, than later. Else the only thing left to be said will be, "I told you so." But by that time it will be stated through tears. And it will be heard through tears.
People are voting, as radio commentator, Rush, said today (the best that it can be said), for 'style' over 'substance'. It is bankrupt to do so. People do not realize the consequences of being wrong. And here is what to consider: The Christians are likely 'prosperity' minded, or otherwise distracted from their Lord till they have no discernment of what is going on and what it means in the long run. What this means is that they are lukewarm Christians and will have to suffer before they can be reconciled to the point of fruitfulness. But they do have the opportunity to repent and pray before being given over to satan for the destruction of the flesh.
I mean, do we not understand what happened to Israel whenever they went into exile? And what was the purpose? It was for them to be purified. But did they have the opportunity to repent beforehand? The call was often made.
Needless to say, we realze that we are in the last day. But we do not have to realize the darkness which will befall the world as long as the Lord is still willing to show kindness. Thought it is at hand, it does not have to be at this turn.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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The Beauty of Holiness777
Advanced Member
Member # 7380
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posted
quote:
I choose the worse economy over killing babies. NO matter who you vote for pray about it, but don't sit by the side and not vote at all be a responsible American.
Amen!
I am seeing that the more people talk about Obama the more ground he gains. I think the media sometimes do more damage than good. The biggest key to this election as Betty stated in a previous post is "PRAYER" and pray without ceasing. Because I feel like others when speaking about this election there are somethings that are going to happen in the coming months regardless of who win to get the American people back in connection with God. Nevertheless, VOTE AMERICA and let us PRAY for God's intervention in this election; For many are so weary and frustrated with the American System for they feel the government has failed them. They have lost their homes, jobs, 401K's, dignity and respect, anxiety and depression is on the rise.
God through the years has blessed America for America has always been a nation of prayer and serving the most high God. Lately, through the years they have tried to take God out of everything. They are now falling into the Woes' of His Word. We need God back in the American System So "PRAY AMERICA AND VOTE".
The only two party system we Americans need right now in this election is GOD and people to seek Him. (Psalm 146:3 says "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help).
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In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}
Posts: 192 | From: God's Universe | Registered: Sep 2008
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
Indeed! Your post clearly indicates that the salt has lost its savor. Either sew into the Republicans, or start looking for where you can hide from the coming terror. For Obama's baby face and mild manner hides a militant, who might have the potential to be the antichrist. I don't think he is, but there are a lot of things that are seriously wrong about his person and his running. He is getting away with things that are not being taken seriously enough by a lot of people who should recognize and challenge them.
This includes the fact that the media is blind towards these things; for the one natural entity here in America who should be more discerning is the free press which we are so lucky to have. Because the free press is one of the tools which we have as a nation that should help in the prevention of anarchy. But they are also star struck - the press. They are in the pocket of the likes of Oprah, new queen of the new mystical church, and Hollywood's recognition as a standard of acceptance. They are in a spiritual stupor, and Christians who are in a spiritual stupor also (sounds like an oxymoron doesn‘t it?), are not only going to allow the reign of terror, but in some cases are promoting it. For there are ignorant believers out there who are literally going to vote for it by voting for Oba.
When Hitler rose to power there were people who knew it was all wrong, but who were powerless to get people to listen to reason. That is what is taking place now. It is a dangerous situation of the most urgent kind. It is out of the ordinary.
But the distinction between Republicans and Democrats (stated in a more practical way) is that Republicans believe in the founding document of this country in its original intent. They believe that people are basically responsible in an environment such as ours, which is graciously provided for them, and these are they whom the market accommodates. Democrats don't accept that people are responsible and insist that the government should take care of them by mandate, even at your expense. That is why they have bent over twistedly to appease a group of fundamentally irresponsible, complaining people, by overriding the free-market principles of economics, and sound lending principles. Under the guise of compassion, they have bent the rules which are known to work. Now they are blaming ‘greed’, and are on a witch hunt to discover who, but greed is not the root of the problem. The root is that they overrode the rules of the free market, by mandate. They overrode 'capitalism', by mandating an unhealthy solution.
This ‘created’ the environment wherein greed could ‘prosper’ among lenders. And it did! But the legislators are blind to their responsibility in creating this situation, for they do not understand the constitution. It is in the blindness of socialism which is all that they can understand. (In fact, in remedy they could give their money to help the situation, but they would rather give yours, and keep theirs.)
As I said, Democrats don't accept that people are responsible and insist that the government should take care of people by mandate, even at your expense. This is where the term ‘big government’ hails from. For mandate (which is overriding freedom) creates government positions, which must be supported monetarily, which addition also adds to the overall financial burden needed for the overall goal. This burden is necessarily levied on all who produce, to accommodate those who are unwilling or unable.
It is not wrong to accommodate. But there is a right way which this effort tries to substitute for. And Jesus said that the poor you have always! They cannot be eliminated. Therefore those who try, do so only to ‘entitle’ themselves as governmental instruments, but conceal it under the banner of 'compassion'. This is known as bureaucracy. (It also tends towards socialist style oversight.)
This is why we have this lending crisis. They overrode common sense to improperly accommodate people. By so doing, they twice burdened you and me. As it ends up they created an ‘entitlement’ which is now financed by those who didn’t create the problem in the first place. It is anti American. But to let it be noted, in a truly moral environment, these lads and lassies would not go un-accommodated, but it would not be by mandate which, if it becomes necessary, would ‘tax‘ everyone.
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Republican economics was a "take-from-the-poor/give-to-the-rich" philosophy.
Ludicrous! You have to twist things around to come to this conclusion.
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In 1984, I got a job in Unionized construction where I learned the economics of the other party.
That is part of the overall problem. Unions are a scourge. The world has changed. Countries around us are developing and competition is intensifying. Here in America our overhead is huge. It starts with the cost of labor. (That is why Mexicans are so popular to use as labor. Its a competition thing.) In China, labor is so cheap it cannot be expressed. So, also our country has so many ‘rules’. These are known as laws, regulations, requirements, mandates or restrictions. There are insurance rules, and government regulations such that it raises the cost of building or making anything by limiting the worker, or the businesses which produce. In China they have basically one rule; it is to produce or be replaced. Raw materials costs are directly related to these labor and regulatory issues, and add to that that rent in this country is gross! (I sometimes feel that if there is a failure of the market, it is that rent is prohibitively expensive.) Then, add to that that the democrats want to add the burden of taxes to ‘fix’ the problem. It only exacerbates the problem. And they have forgotten the Boston Tea Party. I guess that they were not taught that in school. I was. But the fact is that people were slaves to taxes before our nation came into being. Their life was drudgery unto the government. That is the understanding which we are to have, which understanding the socialist democrats are trying to take away, because they are self-serving under the guise of compassion. But if only the forefathers had only placed a cap on how much tax could be collected!
Anyway, opportunity is what needs to be made available; for to simply 'give' people something creates dependants, who will only desire, in fact insist on taking more.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/5411
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/12/obamas-kenya-ghosts/
One more thing: This mandate which insisted that banks make unhealthy loans, caused a building boom. It was a false 'good economy' where a lot of people made out like bandits, if one really considers it. Pay attention also to other side effects such as the fact that (according to what I hear), over one million illegals were able to secure mortgages for homes. Staggering isn't it? Do the math. If we have to pay for those mortgages, the one million alone will be quite a burden. It is a tangled web that has been woven. And on top of that, the ones who hold the wrong notions of how things work in a free society, are the ones who are blowing it radically, and wondering how they could possibly be called wrong! The tread has been coming off of the tire. We need a service station. By the way, Obama is not it.
Psa 133:1 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
If only!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
I disagree with you. Do I like every thing the Republican party does? NO!! But by not voting or voting for an independent you are helping Obama win.
When it comes to the economy and killing babies, I choose the worse economy over killing more babies.
If Obama wins he will do away much of our free speech and Pastors will be limited in what they can preach. Don't think so? Canada has already made scriptures against homosexuality hate speech. NO matter who you vote for pray about it, but don't sit by the side and not vote at all, be a responsible American.
bettty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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scythewieldor
unregistered
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posted
Dear Believers,
When Reagan was running for President, I was in a Christian environment that treated abortion as the only political issue that was relevant to us. Then, I began to understand the economics of the Republicans.
In 1984, I got a job in Unionized construction where I learned the economics of the other party.
Republican economics was a "take-from-the-poor/give-to-the-rich" philosophy. Democratic economics was a very debt oriented philosophy.
Since economics was such a strong issue for both parties, I began asking God about His view on the subject.
These scriptures settled helped me understand God's view of the Republican economic philosophy.
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Pr 14:31 He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.
Pr 22:16 He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.
Pr 28:3 A poor man that oppresseth the poor is like a sweeping rain which leaveth no food.
Pr 19:17 He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.
Thus, I began telling people in the '80's that america would become a poor country in spite of the lies the Republicans were telling.
However, the things I learned from the Bible, also, prevented me from being a Democrat.
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Pr 22:7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.
Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Lu 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Because Democratic Party economics relied on debt, and, because I could not endorse a policy which would make slaves of my posterity, I could not support the Democrats.
These days, the Republicans are as committed to debt as the Democrats are. However, now I have found a new way that scripture prohibits participation in either of those parties.
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Is 30:8 ¶ Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
14 And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters’ vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.
The fiscal conservitivism of the Republicans is called "oppression" by God. The social liberalism of the Democrats is called "perverseness" by God. Christians who pick one or the other are sowing to a judgement that is like a "swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly in an instant".
However, those two policies are not mutually exclusive. The "spirit of bi-partisanship" can work to make the rich perverts richer and the poor righteous folks poorer.
It will happen. When it does, we will feel like we have no choice but to run.
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Is 30:15 For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.
16 But ye said, No; for we will flee upon horses; therefore shall ye flee: and, We will ride upon the swift; therefore shall they that pursue you be swift.
17 One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee: till ye be left as a beacon upon the top of a mountain, and as an ensign on an hill.
18 ¶ And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.
At some point, we will start learning and doing the things commanded by the Holy One of Israel, our Redeemer, and we will stop walking as the other nations.
Meanwhile, the salt seems to have lost it's savor. Watch out for stompers.
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