|
Author
|
Topic: Two Party System
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Believers,
The election is over. And many of the elect are disppointed. Many others will be as they recognize that liberal foolishness is as stupid as conservative foolishness.
The many Christian voters who go to the polls under the influence of the brain-staining, heart-hardening words of broadcast media might take perspective in the knowledge of the will of God. Those who do can begin to build according to that will, not waiting on another chance to be yoked together with unbelelievers in the philosophies and vain conceits broadcast by the wicked and the unreasonable that drive the weak minded and the coveteous into election booths.
quote:
2 Co 8:7 ¶ Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.
8 I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.
9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
2 Co 8:13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.
2 Co 9:6 ¶ But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)
11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
14 And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.
15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
Some may not like to think of themselves as part of a present kingdom of God because, then, they might have to live out the love prescribed in the New Testament.
The New Covenant calls coveteousness idolatry. And the coveteous man is called an idolator in the New Testament.
It would be natural for the coveteous, in order to gain false assurance of salvation, to look for ways to put off the commandments of the New Covenant to some time "when Jesus comes back", or with some other pretense of scripture wrestled.
If they can say, "These things are just for the Jews- not the gentiles", or, "They were just for that time", they can go on in the way of Ananias and Sapphira.
However, for those who claim to be one of the family to whom the Word of God has come, we come under the new orders of a higher calling.
The sure testimony of the Lord Jesus makes us wise, and Jesus says that God calls them gods to whom the word of God came.
quote:
Jn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
The testimony of the Lord the Spirit is that the The Word of God was God. Also, the Word says that the Word of God came to men of the Old Covenant and people of the New Covenant received the Word of God. The action of the Word of God mixed with faith in the hearts of men results in fruit we call behavior.
If your behavior denies your calling, you will die like a man.
quote:
Ps 82:1 ¶ God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge.
2 Till when do ye judge perversely? And the face of the wicked lift up? Selah.
3 Judge ye the weak and fatherless, The afflicted and the poor declare righteous.
4 Let the weak and needy escape, From the hand of the wicked deliver them.
5 They knew not, nor do they understand, In darkness they walk habitually, Moved are all the foundations of earth.
6 ¶ I—I have said, ‘Gods ye are, And sons of the Most High—all of you,
7 But as man ye die, and as one of the heads ye fall,
8 Rise, O God, judge the earth, For Thou hast inheritance among all the nations! (YLT)
Otherwise, there would be a potential for a much longer life.
quote:
Isa 65:17 ¶ For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Now, you who say that this is just for "the new heavens and new earth" time...
quote:
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
We reap according to our faith in sowing.
quote:
Mt 9:28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.
29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
30 And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know it.
Mt 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.
Mt 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Mr 5:34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.
Mr 10:52 And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.
Lu 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Lu 8:48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
Lu 17:19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
Lu 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
What are you waiting on?
quote:
Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
IP: Logged | 
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Michael Harrison,
quote:
1 Sam 11:1 ¶ Then Nahash the Ammonite came up, and encamped against Jabeshgilead: and all the men of Jabesh said unto Nahash, Make a covenant with us, and we will serve thee.
2 And Nahash the Ammonite answered them, On this condition will I make a covenant with you, that I may thrust out all your right eyes, and lay it for a reproach upon all Israel.
3 And the elders of Jabesh said unto him, Give us seven days’ respite, that we may send messengers unto all the coasts of Israel: and then, if there be no man to save us, we will come out to thee.
4 Then came the messengers to Gibeah of Saul, and told the tidings in the ears of the people: and all the people lifted up their voices, and wept.
5 ¶ And, behold, Saul came after the herd out of the field; and Saul said, What aileth the people that they weep? And they told him the tidings of the men of Jabesh.
6 And the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his anger was kindled greatly.
7 And he took a yoke of oxen, and hewed them in pieces, and sent them throughout all the coasts of Israel by the hands of messengers, saying, Whosoever cometh not forth after Saul and after Samuel, so shall it be done unto his oxen. And the fear of the LORD fell on the people, and they came out with one consent.
8 And when he numbered them in Bezek, the children of Israel were three hundred thousand, and the men of Judah thirty thousand.
9 And they said unto the messengers that came, Thus shall ye say unto the men of Jabeshgilead, To morrow, by that time the sun be hot, ye shall have help. And the messengers came and shewed it to the men of Jabesh; and they were glad.
10 Therefore the men of Jabesh said, To morrow we will come out unto you, and ye shall do with us all that seemeth good unto you.
11 And it was so on the morrow, that Saul put the people in three companies; and they came into the midst of the host in the morning watch, and slew the Ammonites until the heat of the day: and it came to pass, that they which remained were scattered, so that two of them were not left together.
12 ¶ And the people said unto Samuel, Who is he that said, Shall Saul reign over us? bring the men, that we may put them to death.
13 And Saul said, There shall not a man be put to death this day: for to day the LORD hath wrought salvation in Israel.
14 Then said Samuel to the people, Come, and let us go to Gilgal, and renew the kingdom there.
Nahash is a name that means "serpent". He came against God's covenant people in a place called Jabesh.
The men of Jabesh were ready to make a covenant with Snake just to save themselves a little trouble for a while, in spite of the the covenant they had with the Lord.
quote:
Ex 34:12 Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
They figured that they could get by the easy way for a few more years. Their children would have to deal with their sorry choice.
Snake said, "If you'll give me all your right eyes and smear the claims of Israel's God, we got a deal."
The men of Jabesh had made the offer forone reason only: to save themselves a little trouble for a while. When they saw they, themselves (and not just their children), were going to pay a nasty price, they decided to wait on the Lord for a week.
The result was that the kingdom was renewed.
If they had been in a hurry, like you are, they would have become people who can see evil on the left real good. But, it would be harder for them to see evil on the right.
And their children would have to, like yours will have to, deal with Snake's false gods stumbling through cruddy marriages with the children of Snake.
I am expecting the Lord to show up with my help.
In fact...
quote:
He 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
You won't hear that on Shannity or Rushbo.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
This is puff scythe. Puffpiece! If you have a chance as a Christian to influence something, evidently in your opinion, you don't bother. But hind sight is better than fore sight. And a lot of people are going to be hurting because the 'lesser of two evils' was not chosen. And here, in USA, we have the power and the opportunity to effect those who are placed over us. That is, those whom God ordains to govern are 'in our care' to choose. It is a powerful and dignified responsibility which should not be distained. And a nightmare is at hand.
Darkness is upon the land. And who is most to blame? It is the church. The church could not even discern the danger, and in many cases, blinded by this world's allure, Christians voted, literally, to have their head in a noose or even worse, a guillotene. That noose is about to tighten. The blade is about to fall, and many will be imprisioned.
Shame should be upon all because of the darkness which is falling. The castle of doom is about to legislate with ill will of the very worst kind. People may soon turn to bloodshed because it is not well with our land. We have entered the hour of hell, of death and destruction. That sounds to me a whole lot better than children playing in the yard, and dog's playfully barking, won't you agree?
How will it feel to worry about going to the store to buy groceries (if there are any groceries), and have to work your way through rioters, and looters? How will you feel to need to go to a doctor, but be afraid to go. Do you not see what is coming? Does no one see what is coming? Something this land is not familiar with is descending upon us, and we had the power to avert it, but were too spiritually stupid to understand. God is willing for us to live in peace and safety, but the likes of you have voted otherwise.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Believers,
There are some who seem to think that the rich are the people who are being oppressed in this country.
Yea. That's a good one.
You can hear those guys who don't do a lick of work on the radio five days a week whining and crying about how the folks who buy their advertisement space are getting so abused by the people who just produce goods with their hands- the lazy people who don't have enough entrepreneurial ambition to exploit workers, somewhere.
Can you imagine how oppressed they would feel in a King Jesus governed Israel under the Old Covenant?
quote:
Jn 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar’s friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
If the Jews had not rejected Jesus when Pilate declared Him their King, Jesus would have enforced the Sabbath years. Every seven years, all debts would be forgiven, no one would be allowed to sow or harvest their own land, the poor would be allowed to come on the land of others to eat the food that volunteered on it, and the servants would be released.
Every fiftieth year was a hallowed year called the Jubile. The year before the Jubile was a Sabbath year, but the Jubile was the year that every Israelite was supposed to return to the land that had been appointed to their fathers- for free.
That doesn't fit into the idea that many people hold of "freedom". In the mind of some, freedom is being able to keep all the slaves they can control.
All I have wanted for years (in the way of earthly things) is a few acres where I could grow my own corn, beans, cantalopes, wheat, a couple of cows, some bees, chickens, and a few goats and sheep. I know how to live that way.
However, the rich run a government where prices of land are driven up by debt to a point that a guy who works with his own hands (as the Lord Jesus commands) has to go into debt to buy that kind of place. There is no way the working guy can support all the politicians, all the venders, and his employer in the fashion to which they would like to become accustomed while saving up enough money to buy that little farm.
quote:
Ec 5:8 If you see in a province the poor oppressed and justice and right violently taken away, do not be amazed at the matter; for the high official is watched by a higher, and there are yet higher ones over them.
Why is it so? If people had farms, they could live free of all that human overhead- and, they would. The rich want their slaves so they must keep that option unavailable.
The rich have been highly motivated to separate the poor from the land for a long time.
quote:
Pr 13:23 ¶ The fallow ground of the poor yields much food, but it is swept away through injustice.(RSV)
Why would the ground of the poor be fallow? Injustice allows the rich to keep the poor from the land.
quote:
Pr 29:7 ¶ A righteous man knows the rights of the poor; a wicked man does not understand such knowledge.
Pr 31:9 Open your mouth, judge righteously, maintain the rights of the poor and needy.
Isa 3:13 The LORD has taken his place to contend, he stands to judge his people.
14 The LORD enters into judgment with the elders and princes of his people: "It is you who have devoured the vineyard, the spoil of the poor is in your houses.
15 What do you mean by crushing my people, by grinding the face of the poor?" says the Lord GOD of hosts.
Jer 22:16 He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then it was well. Is not this to know me? says the LORD.
That last one is particularly good. Jeremiah says that judging the cause of the poor and needy is to know God.
quote:
Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
50 They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them, when I saw it.
How about this one: Pride, overeating, idleness, and ignoring the poor and needy comes before anything that sounds like perversion.
quote:
Isa 30:12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
14 And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters’ vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.
15 For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.
16 But ye said, No; for we will flee upon horses; therefore shall ye flee: and, We will ride upon the swift; therefore shall they that pursue you be swift.
17 One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee: till ye be left as a beacon upon the top of a mountain, and as an ensign on an hill.
Again, oppression comes before perverseness.
The love of money is the root of evil after all.
The best defense is a good offense, rich guy, so keep on whining and complaining about how the working poor are to greedy and the do-nothing-but conniving rich are being so abused.
God sees.
quote:
Am 2:6 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they sold the righteous for silver, and the poor for a pair of shoes;
7 That pant after the dust of the earth on the head of the poor, and turn aside the way of the meek: and a man and his father will go in unto the same maid, to profane my holy name:
8 And they lay themselves down upon clothes laid to pledge by every altar, and they drink the wine of the condemned in the house of their god.
That rich guy wants to comb the dirt out of my hair lest I get a place to grow a tomato.
IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Michael Harrison,
Do you believe Jesus was pulling for McCain?
Do you believe that Jesus is in the heavenly Jerusalem, right now, wondering why His appointed defender of righteousness lost the election.
Do you believe that, if Jesus had saved the beginning of His earthly ministry for this moment, His testimony would sound like that which you just presented?
quote:
Pr 18:23 The poor useth intreaties; but the rich answereth roughly.
Poppycock, Michael?
quote:
Pr 28:11 The rich man is wise in his own conceit; but the poor that hath understanding searcheth him out.
Jer 5:26 For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.
27 As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich.
28 They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge.
29 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?
Mic 6:12 For the rich men thereof are full of violence, and the inhabitants thereof have spoken lies, and their tongue is deceitful in their mouth.
Mt 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Mr 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Lu 1:53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.
Lu 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
Lu 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
2Co 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
10 And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago.
11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.
12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.
1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
In that last passage, that "destruction" and "perdition"? Those are bad things. How do you suppose one would flee those things, Michael?
quote:
1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Poor people can't retain good lawyers long enough to beat their rich oppressors.
quote:
Re 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Poppycock, and nit! That is exactly the spirit that is usurping common sense in this country right now. It is absurd! No one is oppressed in this country! Instead, what we have is a bunch of whiners and complaners, who 'covet' what someone else has, and who want it for free. It is damnable. And for anyone to go along with this is the same. The poor you will have always, Jesus said. Let's face it, they will not go away entirely. But the communist 'ideal' which is promoted by way of propaganda, is that everyone can have more. Instead, reality has it that they will end up with less. Much, much less.
I watched one of the Christian TV appeals for people to help hungry children. It was one of those which tugs at the heart strings. In this particular scene, a youth was saying, "I looked in the refrigerator and there was no food." Was I callused? No, but still there was something apparent which all who watch overlook. The kid had a refrigerator. Well, in Kenya, ninety percent of the people do not even know what a refrigerator is. This kid had a refrigerator. And do you know what else. What goes unreported most of the time is what the parent did with the money. Could the kid possibly be neglected? It is highly possible. And accommodating irresponsibility by appeasing it is the true evil here.
Quite a lot of people out there look at the 2008 elections as the storming of the Bastille. It is unfortunate that they see it that way. They are living as kings and priests compared to how those people lived before the castle was invaded.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Michael Harrison,
The people who actually work for a living are held in dishonor by, both, capitalists and socialists. The revolutions which have resulted in communist regimes have come on the heels of other systems of stewardship which refused to honor the the workers.
When you see a pattern like this, you have to consider the possibility that God is judging.
quote:
Mal 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
Ps 82:1 ¶ God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 ¶ I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Ja 5:1 ¶ Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.
7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
This is what I mean about being inadequate. Even though I once was a licensed real-estate agent, I have forgotten even what I learned there, for the most part. I have a distaste for finance and business. I don't retain the knowledge of it well. But I am not satisfied that your answer lays blame where it should, ultimately, though there may be points of accuracy. Nevertheless, I am not informed enough to delve into it. So I will stick to the surface issues. And to keep it simple, I have to say that honesty with money and real-estate works out for all the people on the whole. This is evidenced by the Old Testament principles from which our very own capitalist system drew its inspiration for its design.
The bailout was a profound mistake. I am very disappointed with our president for taking the course that he did. I, in my ignorance, believe that the market would have taken care of it if it had been allowed to. And by taking the course which he did, President Bush fortified the coming administrations ability to lead us into the slavery of socialism. I might add that I do not believe that Obama believes that he will ever leave office, though it is a bit early to point that out.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Believers,
The correct answer to the question above is the one the pols gave you after voting for the 700,000,000,000 dollar bailout. (I just had to show the zeroes.)
They have no choice.
The borrowers are slaves to the lenders.
How do we bind that which has been released?
Well, Christians, that big green monster is our baby. (Adultery is so ugly.)The only way to reduce it is too lend hoping for nothing, again. Sell what you have, and lend, again, hoping for nothing, again. Give alms, expecially to the widows whose SS checks are worth less every day because of daily increases in the money supply (and the consequent inflation).
Oh, remember those guys who lost their jobs so you could have a cheap computer from China? A lot of their families broke up, so remember the fatherless, too.
Oh, and remember when housing got too expensive for a single, labor-based income? (Work smarter- not harder. What a selfish lie. It meant, "Put your load on someone else".) Remember when all the mommas had to get a job? Well, since there was no one at home to keep the wolves away from the children, and, since the schools that baby-sat them were totally amoral, the children have no sense of a need to be honest.
When they take what's yours, don't demand it back. When they lie to yau, don't remember the debt.
Dear Christians, to bring that big green monster back under control, we have to starve it.
Can you love all those out there that hate you? (They hate everybody, but the ones who feed them have a measure of input into their lives.)
Spend a little while thinking about the fast of Isaiah 58. That's how we will bind that big green goblin we released.
Oh yeah, everybody who read the words of Jesus but could think of no better plan than to vote against abortion for the last 28 years- Obama is more your fault than anyone elses.
quote:
Mt 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Maranatha.
IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Michael Harrison,
When I asked, "Is that too complex...", I was really wondering if my wording had been clear. I was not worried about your intelligence.
The things that you wrote did happen. Rules were broken- including the command to defend the poor and fatherless, to do justice to the afflicted and needy, to deliver the poor and needy out of the hand of the wicked.
quote:
Ps 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
There are a few dynamics in real estate pricing to which you alluded that I would like to put in other words.
The one thing that Americans buy which can not be made on foreign shores is American real estate. That is a supply limiter.
Any time you spend tomorrow's money today, you increase the demand on today's supply. Prices are set by some application of the forces of supply and demand. Therefore, borrowing money for houses drives prices up from cash market pricing.
Property taxes are set by house prices.
When all of tomorrow's money is spent (as it is today), house prices begin to fall back to their natural, cash market value.
Counties have their budgets set according to elevated values of properties.
Ooops.
Officials all over America are terrified.
When housing prices come down, wages will come down. The US government has a budget that depends on people going into higher income tax brackets- not lower ones.
Oooops.
Officials at the very top are terrified.
When the government gets into lending for houses (and, I have been told that HUD stuff brings more income into the government than the IRS), they actually fuel inflation in that market. Can anyone in the class tell us why the government is pushing the prices of houses up? (Not you Michael. You always answer.)
IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
We lived in Washington State for 4 years. People made the cost of houses go up by fipping. People came in and bought houses and turned around a sold them at a huge profit. This made it very hard for people who did not want to house to pay their taxes.
Greed made the price of houses go up. Like Michael said, the government encourage banks to give loans to people who could not afford their homes and this also caused homes to go up and then they lost their home. They showed one woman on the news in California who bought a $350 thosand home without a job.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
quote:
Is that too complex to understand?
Uh! Scythe, it is too bad you are talking to someone like me, rather than someone skillful in these matters. Nevertheless, prices of houses went up because people disobeyed the rules. People who had total disregard for the basic rules of common sense which lenders practice (or did before they were forcibly overruled), insisted that they lend to the uncreditworthy. This led to the building boom, which was 'false', but was directly caused by foolish insistence! But it led to people who were not responsible acquiring mortgages. That in turn led to packaging loans together as securities. This led to selling them to overseas investors who didn't have a clue. This led to the crisis. And we have only two or three people to blame, those being Barny Frank; Criss Dodd, and (I forget!)!
These people 'insisted' on lending to the unqualified. This led to 'greed', which is inappropiately blamed. It is solely the fact that a few politicians believed that everyone should have a house, whether they are responsible or not!!! We cannot 'bend the rules' without consequence. That is what happened. We tried to 'accomodate' the unworthy! I am sorry to call them that, but it is true. And it doesn't work that way. It simply doesn't work that way, even if a few 'so called' sympathetic people want to believe it does. In fact, these 'sympathetic' people were only looking out for their position in office. But President Bush 'tried' to counter this at length. He did. That is how it is. You are way off! Way!
quote:
That package included giving to the rich and taking from the poor.
How?
The tax cuts that went to the rich, though they seemed to have a prosperous short term (twenty years is not a long time, really) effect, were accompanied by the removal of jobs from our shores.
That meant that individual American workers began competing with slave labor in Communist, Christian-persecuting countries. The American people who actually produce wealth (the things for which people trade money) began to be reduced in their participation in the wealth.
Prices of houses, cars, food, and fuel went up much faster than wages. These things were kept off of the consumer price index because of their "volatility", and, thus, we were tricked into thinking inflation was not that bad. It was easier to trick us because the stuff we didn't really need (i.e., computers, TVs, sound systems, etc.) which were being made by labor in more oppressive countries, was getting very much cheaper.
In other words, Christians released the Republicans to make oppressive countries prosper at the expense of the workers here at home while allowing the rich to get richer distributing foreign goods.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Michael Harrison,
We who have believed on the name of Jesus have been given the power to become the sons of God.
quote:
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Therefore, the power to bind and release is very unique to us (the people of God). That is why I make so much of the command that we should not yoke together with unbelievers.
I believe this is one way binding and loosing is effected.
quote:
Mt 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
When Christians agree concerning a thing, whether binding or loosing, it happens. When Christians went to the polls for the Republicans with the single issue, abortion, in mind, we released the Republicans and the whole package they stood for.
That package included giving to the rich and taking from the poor.
How?
The tax cuts that went to the rich, though they seemed to have a prosperous short term (twenty years is not a long time, really) effect, were accompanied by the removal of jobs from our shores.
That meant that individual American workers began competing with slave labor in Communist, Christian-persecuting countries. The American people who actually produce wealth (the things for which people trade money) began to be reduced in their participation in the wealth.
Prices of houses, cars, food, and fuel went up much faster than wages. These things were kept off of the consumer price index because of their "volatility", and, thus, we were tricked into thinking inflation was not that bad. It was easier to trick us because the stuff we didn't really need (i.e., computers, TVs, sound systems, etc.) which were being made by labor in more oppressive countries, was getting very much cheaper.
In other words, Christians released the Republicans to make oppressive countries prosper at the expense of the workers here at home while allowing the rich to get richer distributing foreign goods.
Is that too complex to understand?
How can people begrudge the men who actually work with their own hands a fair access to the benefits of labor? How can anyone justify the amount of money being paid for some of the "services" that pull down such huge paychecks?
The only way to make a few soooo rich is to hold back the wages of the real producers.
quote:
Jas 5:1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
scythewieldor: Well, I'm trying to search you out. I didn't mean that you were on the level of the JokeofAwitnesses. But the way you stated it, it sounded somewhat similar, so I had to know if that was your concept. I mean, I knew it wasn't, but it sounded that way. So sorry!
This sounds interesting:
quote:
We rule, brother.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mt 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
But though I am sensing some agreement, I am also aware of some shallowness in my understanding of what we bind, and are to bind. I am sure I have bound or loosed something in the history of my walk, but it was spontaneous. I couldn't even point it out. Well, perhaps I could. But we do not just 'do' it. There has to be purpose, and it must be according to His will.
But I do not hear this the way that you are hearing it. quote:
Do you believe that all things are ours?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
23 And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is, but according to God's will. Though we have the power and authority to change things, it is not subject to our whims, for we are too shortsighted to know how to pray. "And we know that if our heart condemn us not, we have what we ask for!" Therefore we only know by His spirit, as His life is imparted to us by faith, whatsoever we pray will be by inspiration.
As far as capitalism is concerned, freedom to prosper according to how much one works, as a practical matter, is healthy. The caution to that is the passage, "Labor not for the meat which perisheth." There are others. But the freedom is not wrong.
So
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Eden: I would concur ordinarily. Children seem to be a good measure. However, in this case they are not a good barometer. In fact, the fact that they are drawn to him is scary. For here is a man who wants to put them into indoctrination camp, even pre-kindergarden.
I know that he calls it something else, but it is not. He has a plan, and the plan works best by indoctrinating youth. It is Chinese communist style brainwashing he is after. These of course will be the ones who are lucky to survive any 'abortion' attmpt. The man is directly from hell. It is worse than bad. And soon he will be requiring the extermination of Christians. (Won' that be an eye opener for those who saw him as being 'like them'?)
Today we heard that he fully intends to impliment indentured servitude to service the state (Required commuinity service). It is a piece of the puzzle for whomsoever is looking to see the whole picture. He is a communist who would rule by dictatorial fashion if he were free to right now.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
Christians who stayed home and refused to vote played a part in allowing Obama to win.
betty
Even the news media is questioning whether Conservative Christians have any political power anymore.
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Betty Louise,
The testimony of the Holy Spirit is that the love of money is the root of every evil. Abortion is just a fruit on the tree.
The political parties are fashioned by people who love money. They want to keep their control on it.
They know the issues which motivate voters. They, coldly, decide to divide the issues (both, positive and negative) between the two parties.
By doing this, they can keep the stupid people divided- divided and conquered.
I have heard that the government has a war college where they run all kinds of scenarios and learn to predict the outcomes of tactics and strategies before the wars, actually, begin.
I can not imagine a person, or group of people, having very much wealth, not having something similar.
Is it inconceivable to you that, somewhere, there is a supercomputer upon which are loaded a database of voter behaviours, psycological profiles, and subliminal motivators by which men could grow their hold on the world?
quote:
Ps 37:12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.
Ps 37:14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.
Ps 37:35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.
Ps 64:2 Hide me from the secret counsel of the wicked; from the insurrection of the workers of iniquity:
Pr 11:18 The wicked worketh a deceitful work: but to him that soweth righteousness shall be a sure reward.
I will show you how we might stop abortions.
quote:
Ps 82:1 ¶ God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 ¶ I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Who is being addressed, here?
quote:
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
God calls them gods to whom the word of God came.
quote:
Lu 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
Lu 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Ac 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Ac 11:1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
Ac 13:7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.
Ac 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
Re 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
So, I ask you who have received The Word of God:
- How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
- Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
- Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
Folks, if Christians are not to take up partisanship for Paul, Appollos, or Cephas, how can we justify ourselves when we are seduced by the likes of McCain or Obama?
God stands in the congregation of the gods, and He judges. Though He calls you gods, and though He has made you children of the Most High, ye will die like men. You will fall like one of the princes.
Now, you know why eternal life has such a short effect on the body- until the resurrection. Either, we make the wicked mad enough to kill us, or, God lets us die because we accept the persons of the wicked rather than defending the poor and fatherless, doing justice to the afflicted and needy, and delivering the poor and the needy.
Isn't it amazing how God sees the poor as the victims of the wicked while the Free Market capitalists make the wicked the heroes?
quote:
Pr 12:26 The righteous is more excellent than his neighbour: but the way of the wicked seduceth them.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
The man voted to allow new born babies to die in utility rooms. So what, that children flock to him.
I am a mom and I can tell you that children do not always make the best choice. Children liking him does not make him a nice man.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Notwithstanding whatever you or I may say or think about Barack Obama, children seem to like him a lot and children are drawn to him, and that is a very good healthy sign to me, when children like someone:
Mark 10:14
13 And the people brought young children to Him, that He should touch them; but His disciples rebuked those who brought them.
14 But when Jesus saw that, He was much displeased and He said to them, Allow the little children to come to Me and do not forbid them: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Children are good judges of character, especially whether someone is sweet or not.
Exodus 15
23 And when they {Moses and Israel) came to Marah, they could not drink of the waters of Marah, for they were bitter: therefore the name of it was called Marah.
24 And the people murmured against Moses, saying, What shall we drink?
25 And he cried to the LORD, and the LORD showed him a tree, which, when he had thrown it into the water, the water was made sweet.
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Michael Harrison,
I don't know what sounded like JW stuff. I did feel smeared by the allegation.
Michael, the way I read the Bible is to let the most natural application of the words that I find in it be my first path of research. So, you can understand how this passage effects me.
quote:
Is 1:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Lk 13:20 And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God?
21 It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
1 Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Ep 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
He 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
In this last scripture, we have a confirmation to your statement that there is an invisible quality to the coming of the Kingdom. However, we do not live by what we see.
quote:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Do you believe that all things are ours?
quote:
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
23 And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.
We rule, brother.
quote:
Mt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mt 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Whatsoever means whatsoever. If, by your denial of your joint heirship with Christ, you release things that should not be released (like when you vote for oppression), do not use that as evidence that all things are not ours.
Get educated concerning the will of God. Find brothers who believe what God has said concerning His will. Agree. Overcome.
quote:
1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Like I said, we are in the world, but not of the world. And Jesus prayed, "I do not pray that you take them out of the world..." So you have legitimate contact with the world around you with each valid part of your being because He does not take us out of the world. You are being too spiritual.
As far as building the Kingdom is concerned, yours is a Jehova's Witness concept as related by your own words. It is not however as though we will 'build' a Kingdom, which will supplant the worldly, that we may be 'established', so that we can 'reign'. It is a mysteriously manifested phenomena of the Spirit of God manifest in and to His saints as they believe unto Him. It is unseen to the world around us, except as He reveals it to others wherein they are often added as a result.
(I was kidding about the 'dear' thing.)
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Believers,
The dialectical materialistic approach to putting a stumbling block before the people of God has been used for a long time.
quote:
Jud 3:7 So the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD. They forgot the LORD their God, and served the Baals and Asherahs.
"Asherahs" is the RSV rendering of a Hebrew word interpreted "groves". The groves (according to Easton's Revised Bible Dictionary) were, actually, trees altered by the removal of their limbs and a little other carving.
Plain speaking of the image of that which was left standing is unnecessary. I will say, however, that, to me, it represents perversions around which the Democrats gather much support.
"Baal" is a word that could be rendered "lord". It is not like "adonai" which is translated "Lord".
"Adonai" comes from another word which has a clear meaning of ownership. "Adown" is used when Abraham's servant speaks of his "master".
"Baal", of course, is not like the other word translated "LORD", either. That word is the word we think of as the name of God, and very much different.
Baal worship, to me, compares to the worship of the oppressors of the Republican party very much deference to which we are made to pay as tax exemptions are given to them. In spite of the fact that they hold so much property the protection of which is provided by the government, the people who go to work for those Baals, and, which make those Baals profitable by buying their goods and services, are, also, required to pay the Baalim's share of the government.
The Baalim's share of the taxes which are paid by the people, along with the lives of the sons of the people, are sacrifices used to protect the interests of the Baalim and to spread their influence to other countries.
quote:
Ju 3:7 And the people of Israel did what was evil in the sight of the LORD, forgetting the LORD their God, and serving the Baals and the Asheroth.
8 ¶ Therefore the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he sold them into the hand of Cushanrishathaim king of Mesopotamia; and the people of Israel served Cushanrishathaim eight years.
9 But when the people of Israel cried to the LORD, the LORD raised up a deliverer for the people of Israel, who delivered them, Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb’s younger brother.
10 The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he judged Israel; he went out to war, and the LORD gave Cushanrishathaim king of Mesopotamia into his hand; and his hand prevailed over Cushanrishathaim.
In eight years, will we remember the LORD, our God, and cry out to Him?
Othniel, the deliverer raised up by the LORD, was of the tribe of Judah and was a nephew of Caleb. He must have been very familiar with the faith of that one of the two spies which came back to Israel with the good report.
The Spirit of the Lord which came upon Othniel: Is that the same Spirit which is in us?
quote:
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear, dear Michael Harrison,
The word "practical" comes from the word "practice". I am not sure, but it seems that the Greek word with Strongs reference number, 4234 (and which comes from 4238), is very kin to "practice".
4234 praxiv praxis prax’-is
from 4238; TDNT-6:642,927; n f
AV-deed 4, work 1, office 1; 6
1) a doing, a mode of acting, a deal, a transaction
1a) the doings of the apostles
1b) in a bad sense, wicked deed, crime, wicked doings (our practices i.e. trickery)
2) a thing to be done, business
Paul uses it this way:
quote:
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds <4234>;
Look, also, at the other word.
4238 prassw prasso pras’-so
AV-do 28, commit 5, exact 1, require 1, deed 1, keep 1, use arts 1; 38
1) to exercise, practise, to be busy with, carry on
1a) to undertake, to do
2) to accomplish, perform
2a) to commit, perpetrate
3) to manage public affairs, transact public business
3a) to exact tribute, revenue, debts
4) to act
Paul uses it this way:
quote:
Ac 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do <4238> works meet for repentance.
Ro 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit <4238> such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do <4238> them.
Ro 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest <4238> the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit <4238> such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do <4238> such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done <4238>, whether it be good or bad.
Ga 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do <4238> such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Php 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do <4238>: and the God of peace shall be with you.
1Th 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do <4238> your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
The practical that we learn from the Spirit through the prophets and apostles will make the world hate us. Nevertheless, we must go on building the Kingdom into which we have been translated.
Now, the tools that have been given to the oppressors of the Republican party will be used to the utmost by the perverts of the Democratic party. In the face of that we must strengthen that which remains.
Practically speaking, Christian men must seek their brothers in their neighborhoods and sow to the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
In every zip code, or state congressional district, build Christian eldership councils recognizing men who have learned to be good sons, brothers, husbands, fathers, and neighbors.
If they keep the confession of Jesus Christ, the only begotten of the Father, crucified for the world, resurrected from the dead, and coming again, make brothers of them. Do not try to change their denomination or church affiliation.
Become the Holy Nation in the eyes of the gentiles teaching the nations, by your own example, to observe the things that Jesus commanded his disciples and which the apostles wrote in the New Testament.
We still have the promise of the Father. We still have the wisdom of God and the power of God. We are still the children of God if we are in Christ.
Do not let the deceitfulness of riches, the cares of this world, and other things entering in to choke out the Word that has been sown into you.
quote:
Da 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
I speak the "dear" to you with the most heart felt sincerity. We are brothers.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
You know, for all the rhetoric, I voted solely with my prayers during the past two elections. It was enough to get by by the skin on a thousand teeth. But this time I felt I should reinforce my vote with a real vote. For there is a practical world out there in which we live, and participate. And we should. God created 'normal' people (even if normal means that signs and wonders follow them.)
For example, "meat is for the belly, and the belly for meat!" (1Cor 6:13) So as a practical matter, I give my belly meat. After all, what will be the result if I do not? It takes no brains to see that this also is a practical matter ' which God expects us to tend to without having to be told '/.
Though you say some interesting things, aren't you being 'overspiritual'? It happens to plenty of people who are zealous, and desirous to see results. And anyone, I don't care who, can find scripture to reinforce what they believe to justify a point of view. That is the opposite of seaching the scriptures in order to know what to believe.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Michael Harrison,
The hierarchy is like this.
- All things are ours.
- We are Christ's.
- Christ is God's.
I have, already, shown the scriptures which prove that Christians have been made part of the holy nation.
quote:
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
If you are dispensationalistic, I would not be surprised if you have not had your attention directed to this scripture. However, Peter is letting the readers know that they are a fulfillment of several prophecies concerning Israel.
quote:
Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Deuteronomy 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
Isaiah 7:8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.
Hosea 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
Paul agrees that we are a nation.
quote:
Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
A kingdom is a nation with a king.
If you are dispensationalistic, you have probably been taught that Jesus refused the fruit of the vine while He was on the cross- saving the fulfillment of his promise to the disciples that He would drink it, only, when He drinks it new in His Father's kingdom for some time in the sweet bye and bye.
quote:
Mark 14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
However, the Bible shows us that it has already been done.
quote:
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Thus, Jesus has, already, regenerated the twelve tribes of Israel,...
quote:
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
...which the apostles recognized as being regenerated in their day.
quote:
Acts 26:7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting
... and the apostles already sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel just like Moses, though his body was dead, judged the Old Covenant people.
quote:
John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
Now, we which have been effected by the washing of regeneration have been chosen to comprise the Israel of God. quote:
Ephesians 2:11 ¶ Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
As ones brought nigh to the commonwealth of Israel and the covenants of promise, we partake in a nation that is above the rest.
quote:
De 28:1 ¶ And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
De 28:9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.
10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.
De 28:12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
Jesus died the ONLY Jew ever to earn those promises. He was the sole legitimate heir. By dying, that which was His goes to the children given to Him by His Father.
quote:
John 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Hebrews 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
This, of course, includes us.
quote:
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Thus, though we have been taught otherwise, it is time for us to realize the purpose for our regeneration. If we will teach the nations to observe the things Jesus commanded His apostles, we will be a blessing to all the families of the earth. If we let the nations teach us their philosophies and vain conceits, we will be cast into the street where men will trample us.
quote:
Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
The support of the holy people is, itself, holy.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Michael Harrison wrote, quote:
By the way, what is really wrong with "HarrisonMichael"?
So, HarrisonMichael, do you think that the new life, the Holy Spirit, that is now in you, actually is TELLING YOU to contort the names of the members of this Internet church?
My "dear" HarrisonMichael, if God was in the business of willy-nilly repositioning the letters of the names in the Bible (as our example and figure), don't you think God would have instructed the Holy Spirit LONG AGO to also use "avida" for "david" and "ehju" for "jehu", and so on. GOD NEVER DID IT EVER in the Bible, so where are you getting this from, then?
From your soul operating in its own strengths and ideas. When you distort people's church names, what Biblical precedent DO you have? ![[updown]](graemlins/updown.gif)
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
I believe that HE sees me as 'responsible'.
So...
quote:
"You shall not tempt the LORD your God", therefore you should also not tempt (provoke) His children. No good can come from it.
I suspect that no tempting of God is inherent in that with which you disagree. But concerning not tempting His children, I don't know how you can link the two. It might be a stretch to assume that that is "tempting His children." And even at that, "Seven times seventy," wins out.
- 2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith.
You are still sore over the 'name thing' huh? Perhaps it is best not to discuss this lest it become necessary to 'explain' that whole ordeal again, for the sake of those who are not privy to the scenario which took place, that they not misjudge any ensuing conversation! ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif)
By the way, what is really wrong with 'HarrisonMichael'?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Michael Harrison wrote quote:
What about the scripture "Love covers a multitude of sins?"
What about "Seven times seventy?"
"You shall not tempt the LORD your God", therefore you should also not tempt (provoke) His children. No good can come from it.
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
I will call you whatever I like, affectionately, cornfed. wieldorscythe has a difficult name to remember how to spell. It helped me, almost, to jumble his name. Still I failed to get the 'i' before the 'e'. So according to your concern, even if I had spelled it as scytheweildor, I would still be being abusive! Would you still call out my error, professor (he is?)?
What about the scripture "Love covers a multitude of sins?"
What about "Seven times seventy?" That is in one single day (if you haven't read it). Or is your pride such that you cannot bear it, such that you have to speak out? What does scripture say about pride? And does it not say that carnal knowledge 'puffeth up'? Therefore one 'elevates' himself according to his 'carnal' knowledge.
But near as I can tell, scythewieldor didn't make this plea, and I don't care what you call me (except perhaps, 'dear').
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Michael Harrison, I Christian-beg you not to distort our Christian cyberhandles anymore, for these cyberhandles are shorthand, like a national flag, for who we are ourselves. When you twist our cyberhandles, you are twisting our feelings and opinions. Please don't do it anymore.
As for your post, among other things, you wrote this too: quote:
Even the Kingdom of Heaven has a hierarchy, and someone has to be at the top.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 11:11
Truly I say to you, Among them who are born of women there has not arisen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding, he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
quote:
Even the Kingdom of Heaven has a hierarchy, and someone has to be at the top.
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Duh, weildorscythe: It is extremely 'rare' to be able to separate one's self from the world and abide without anyone overhead. Even Christian communes have some heirarchy to which each individual submits. Denominations are the same. And everyone therein submits to the ordinance of man, which is a government of some kind. It is what we are called unto. Herein is HE glorified that we submit, or if given the opportunity, participate.
So, also there also must needs be someone at the top of any heriarchy to preside over the order of it. I defy you to show me where this is any different! Even the Kingdom of Heaven has a heirarchy, and someone has to be at the top. And we have a government over us as does every country in the world.
Now perhaps you can go to some island and live like there is no government. But in such case you are your own government. Moreover, the elements also are your government, and the necessities. So I simply do not know where in dreamland you get the notion that you are special and significant to the extent that you do not have to interact with "mere men on earth." Neither are you forbidden to occupy such a position as government offers, or refrain from supporting those who do. If you do not believe so, check our your Old Testament! It has some facinating scenarios of government heirarchies and people of God who either occupy, or somehow interact with them. After all, they are people too, who staff these positions. And let me tell you, someone is going to occupy these positions. Is it just well with you if "Godless America," or some lunatic fringe individual, such as Hitler, occupies those positions? Will you be ok with that? And if you have the opportunity to 'choose' who will be over you, will you distain it to allow someone else to choose for you?
Dear weildorscythe: Now you can't be for someone without being against someone. It is the "Catch 22," of existing. And you distain God, who gives you the opportunity such as we have to have sanguine individuals representing your interests, which include your religious freedom, and that relative to those who would rather distress or persecute you? It lends new meaning to, “If thou art a slave, care not for it, but if you can be free, then so be.” But you would prefer slavery. In a race, you beat common sense to a losers party.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
Amen scythewieldor ...
WildB,be not conformed to this world
Decisions about birth control are very personal and private... they can also be confusing, especially for the Christian couple who is concerned about God's plans for their family. This information is designed to help you understand the various contraceptive choices you have, and give you some insight into how these choices may or may not line up with scripture...
| DEFINITIONS |
| METHODS OF BIRTH CONTROL |
| BIRTH CONTROL AND THE BIBLE |
| WHY CHRISTIANS USE BIRTH CONTROL |
Before discussing the various types of birth control that are available, it would be helpful to know what certain terms relating to conception mean.
In 1965 the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology (ACOG) published a terminology bulletin that is still in use today. Here are the terms and definitions that doctors use to define pregnancy:
"Fertilization is the union of spermatozoan and ovum (sperm and egg)."
"Conception is the implantation of a fertilized ovum."
"Pregnancy is the state from conception to expulsion of the products of that conception."
It is important to keep these definitions in mind when choosing a form of birth control, especially if you believe that life begins from the moment of fertilization, not implantation (which usually takes place 7-10 days later). Some contraceptives work primarily by inhibiting "conception," not "fertilization."
BACK TO TOP
The Pill, Norplant, Depo Provera and The IUD
These are the most commonly prescribed forms of birth control, the Pill being the most common. It is estimated that more than ten million women in the United States are on the Pill (or another hormonal based contraceptive), and nearly sixty million women worldwide have IUDs.
The IUD does little or nothing to interfere with sperm migration or fertilization. It achieves its birth control effect primarily by preventing the newly "fertilized" human life from implanting in the uterine lining. The IUD has been linked to a number of serious health complications, including hemorrhage, pelvic inflammatory disease, and perforation of the uterus. These conditions may lead to sterility. 1
The Pill is an oral drug consisting of synthetic hormones.
There are two kinds of birth control Pills, the "combined Pill," containing both estrogen and progestin, and a progestin-only Pill sometimes called the "mini-pill."
THE TYPICAL PILL WORKS IN THREE WAYS
1) It generally suppresses ovulation.
2) It tends to thicken the cervical mucus to make sperm migration more difficult.
3) It affects the inner lining of the uterus - the endometrium - to make it hostile to conception (implantation). 2
The question is: how often does the Pill achieve its birth control effectiveness by preventing implantation? This depends upon how often "breakthrough ovulation" occurs, and then upon how often fertilization follows.
Unfortunately, there is no precise way of determining when the Pill is working by preventing ovulation and when it is not. If it is going to be used as the primary form of birth control you must understand that there is always a possibility that the Pill may prevent pregnancy by causing an early, chemical abortion. If that is not acceptable to you then you should consider another method of contraception.
The Pill also has potential physical side-effects that should be considered when making this decision. Oral contraceptives may increase the tendency to develop strokes and heart disease, particularly in smokers on the Pill. Other side effects may include headaches, depression, and weight gain. 3
The Transdermal Delivery System, Mirena LNG, Nuva Ring, DepoProvera, and Lunelle, are relatively new birth control options on the American market, although they have been used extensively in other countries. They work in much the same way as the Pill, and should be avoided if you are concerned about their abortifacient properties. The physical side effects are similar to those of the Pill - many women also complain of excessive hair loss when using DepoProvera. Many women should not use any form of hormonal birth control, especially those who have a history or blood clots in the legs, lungs or eyes, chest pain, high blood pressure, diabetes with complications of the kidneys, eyes, nerves or blood vessels, undiagnosed abnormal uterine bleeding, history of heart attack or stroke, headache with neurological symptoms, liver tumors or active liver disease, or suspected or known pregnancy.
WHAT'S LEFT?
There are a number of options available. There are "barrier" methods, as well as "natural family planning" methods.
A "barrier" method uses a product that prevents sperm from reaching an ovum. It does not interfere with your body's hormonal system in any way. There are a variety of "barrier methods" available, including the condom, diaphragm and cervical cap. They can be used alone, but are most often used with spermicidal foams or jellies to enhance their contraceptive effectiveness.
There are some potential side effects with these methods, especially when used with spermicides. Some people are allergic to the chemicals used in making these contraceptive compounds.
New research also indicates that women who are not exposed to their husband's sperm before the conception of their first child are at a greater risk of developing preeclampsia during pregnancy. There is strong evidence that the father's semen prepares the woman's immune system to somehow "recognize" the baby and exempt it from attack as a foreign object.4 (Preeclampsia is a condition that can cause serious complications. For mothers, symptoms include elevated blood pressure, protein loss in the urine and water retention. Babies can suffer intrauterine growth retardation, as well as death either before or shortly after delivery.)
"Natural family planning" is the last, impermanent birth control method available. It is very effective when practiced consistently. It involves learning the signs of fertility the female body exhibits before, during and immediately after ovulation, and requires that the couple abstain from sexual intercourse during that fertile time.
STERILIZATION
The most drastic and permanent form of birth control involves surgery to remove or alter the female or male anatomy so that conception is no longer possible. For the man, it entails removing segments of his "vas deferens," which will prevent sperm from leaving the testes. This is known as a "vasectomy." When a woman has a "tubal ligation" portions of her fallopian tubes are removed, thus inhibiting sperm from reaching the ovum. Both of these procedures are fairly simple and usually do not cause serious complications. They should also not interfere with normal sexual function.
While there has been improvement in the techniques used to reverse these procedures when a couple changes their mind about their fertility, there is no guarantee that a reversal would be possible in your individual case. These procedures should be considered permanent, and should only be performed when you and your partner are sure that this is what you both want to do.
A new permanent procedure known as Essure was approved by the FDA in 2002. It has just completed a third round of clinical trials in the United States, and is already commercially available in Australia. According the Dr. Charles Carignan, Vice President for Research and Medical Affairs with its developer, Conceptus, a woman could undergo an Essure procedure under local anesthesia in her doctor’s examination room, and be out of the door in less than an hour.
Essure works like this: using a camera-equipped hysteroscope (an instrument that allows the doctor to visualize the inside of the woman’s uterus), a catheter loaded with a tiny polyester-swathed coil is inserted into the ****** , past the cervix and into a fallopian tube. The doctor presses a button on the device’s handle to release the micro-coil, which is kept in place by an outer coil resembling a ballpoint pen spring. The average procedure time is 35 minutes.
During the three months after the procedure, the micro-insert works with the woman’s body to form a tissue barrier that prevents sperm from reaching the egg. The micro-inserts do not contain or release hormones and are made with the same materials used in other medical products for many years (for example, these materials have been used in blood vessel grafts, heart valve replacements, and abdominal repair).
For the first three months following the insertion of Essure, another form of contraception must be used. After three months, the woman must undergo a hysterosalpingogram, to determine whether or not the tissue barrier is complete.
The manufacturers of Essure say that the woman may experience cramps, discharge, mild nausea or vomiting and fainting or light-headedness following the procedure. Major risks include becoming pregnant several years after undergoing the procedure, ectopic pregnancy, and hypervolemia (although there were no reported cases of hypervolemia in the Essure clinical trials, they list it as a possible risk).
BACK TO TOP
Trusting God for His Perfect Plan for Our Lives
Going Against The Flow
Modern culture continually bombards Christians with certain ideals in the area of sexuality within marriage, as well as family size and timing. It's accepted - and expected - that a newlywed couple will use birth control for at least two years before having their first child - and that they will stop having children after two. The world - including the Evangelical world - believes that this is "responsible." But is this the way God's people should think? Have we adopted the world's mind set in this area of our lives? Do our beliefs, attitudes and choices look any different than those of the world's? Should they look any different? Isn't the Bible silent on birth control?
While the Bible is "silent" on birth control - there isn't a commandment that says "Thou shall not use birth control" - neither is there a commandment forbidding abortion, yet we can clearly see in scripture the case against it. In the same way, we can see God's heart on birth control if we're willing to look. We need to understand His heart on human life, the value of children, His purpose for sex, and the role of faith in every area of our lives.
"In His Image"
"Then God said, 'Let Us make man in our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.'"
Genesis 1:26, 27
Genesis states that human life is created in "God's own image." That's what sets us apart from the rest of His creation - only men and women are "stamped" or "imprinted" with His image and nature. It also states that He created us "male and female." There's something about how He created the male that uniquely bears the image of God - and there's something about how He created the female that uniquely bears His image, too. There are obvious physical differences that we cannot ignore - but there are other differences that are more easily rejected or suppressed - consciously or subconsciously - and by doing so, the "image of God" in that man or woman is also being rejected or suppressed. When it comes to matters of hormonal methods of birth control, this is most definitely true for women. Men were created by God to have a steady supply and flow of hormones that control his sexual health/life. From puberty until death, a man's levels of FHS, LH and testosterone remain constant - they remain the same from day to day. In contrast, a woman's hormones are changing daily - they ebb and flow - come and go - all in a finely tuned hormonal "symphony" that controls her fertility. That's how God made her! When a woman is using a hormonal method of birth control her hormones "flat line" - like a male's. Is it possible that the very thing that makes her uniquely "created in His image" has been tampered with?
Is it really any wonder that women who use hormonal birth control notice a significant change in their moods and emotions - as well as in their libido? Shouldn't we embrace the differences that God has built into men and women, instead of trying to suppress them?
“God created them male and female - in the image of God He created them...”
“Be Fruitful and Multiply…”
“Then God blessed them, and God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.’”
Genesis 1:28
“This, the first directive that God gave to mankind, has never been rescinded. The rest of the verse instructs man to replenish (fill) the earth and subdue (tread down, conquer) it. The increase of a population is a two-fold blessing. Proverbs 14:28 tells us that “In a multitude of people is a king’s honor, but in the lack of people is the downfall of a prince.” Society as a whole, benefits economically by adding more members to it. New people have new ideas and invent ways to do things more efficiently and cost effectively. God has blessed everyone, even those who do not know Him, with different gifts and talents and abilities to bless others and function in a larger body of society. When Christians multiply, they are raising up children to know Jesus and function in the Body of Christ, blessing others with their individual gifts and talents to further the Kingdom of God. There are many verses where God bestows a blessing upon His people by promising them an increase in numbers and fertility and likewise a cursing for disobedience by taking away their fertility.”*
Deuteronomy: 7:12-16 "Where it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgements, and keep, and do them, that...He will love thee and bless thee, and multiply thee: He will also bless the fruit of thy womb....Thou shalt be blessed above all people: there shall not be male or female barren among you...." See also: Deuteronomy 28:1-6, 30:5, 9, Jeremiah 30:19, Hosea 9:11-17.
They Shall Become “One Flesh”
“Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” Genesis 2:24
Sexual intimacy allows husband and wife to experience a “oneness” that cannot be experienced in any other way. It is a beautiful expression of love, and is a gift of God for marriage. Over the years Evangelical Christians have moved away from the original perspective of the gift of sexuality - our views on sex within marriage differ very little from those outside the church. This has not always been the case. Historically, sexual intimacy was viewed as a three dimensional act - physical, procreative and spiritual.
“Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain...” Genesis 4: 1
“And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth...” Genesis 4: 25
“But did He not make them one, having a remnant of the Spirit? And why one? He seeks godly offspring.” Malachi 2:15
The act of “knowing” a spouse resulted in conception - it wasn’t just a physical act for pleasure’s sake. We’re not discounting the pleasure that comes with sexual intimacy. That is a gift from God to husbands and wives, and we believe that it was His intent that it be pleasurable. He created us - male and female - with all the nerve endings that make sex an incredible experience. BUT - He didn’t create sex solely for pleasure - it was part of His divine design, but not the complete design. We’re also not saying that sexual intimacy should be reserved only for procreation (which the Gnostics did) - but it was and is part of His design. Why? Because “God desires godly offspring.” And - what could be the fullest expression of “becoming one” than the co-mingling of genetic material that occurs at conception, resulting in the creation of a new human life?
“‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.”
Ephesians 5: 31,32
This verse in Ephesians teaches us that sexual union is a “mysterious” representation of the union of Christ and His church. If that is true, where does contraception fit into that picture? Would Jesus do anything that would prevent complete union with His Bride? Would He do anything - or ask the Bride to do anything -that would prevent that union from bearing fruit?
“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.”
John 15:2
In 1930, when the Anglican Church stepped away from thousands of years of teaching against “pagan” methods of birth control, and opened the door for married couples to use condoms, sexual intimacy became simply a physical act. The result of their decision should be clear to everyone - extramarital affairs increased, divorce rates soared, and the “need” for abortion as a back up to failed birth control brought what was once considered a crime into the mainstream.
Are Children a Blessing - or a Curse?
Most Christians would answer “a blessing.” By this they often mean that the children they “wanted” or “planned” for are blessings. But what if God chooses to bless them with another family member? Would they be happy with God’s gift? Usually not - especially if this child wasn’t “planned.” The majority of the church has openly embraced birth control, even though it’s very name clearly implies that someone else is in control other than God. Their bodies, destiny, family size, timing and structure have never been turned over to God. Birth control says to God - “I can’t/won’t trust you with my fertility. I am choosing to be in control of this area of my life. You can be Lord over everything else - but not this.” (Granted, most Christians don’t consciously think this when they choose birth control - but their “actions speak louder than words!”)
Ask yourself this question - and be honest - when you see a large family (three or more children), what do you think? Do you think, “My, they have so many blessings! What a beautiful family!” Or - do you think -or say - “Don’t they know what causes pregnancy? Don’t they know about birth control? When are they going to stop!?” When someone tells you that they’re expecting, do you ask them if it was “planned” - or an “accident?” When someone using Natural Family Planning becomes pregnant, do you immediately assume that the method “failed.”
If we believe that children are ALWAYS a gift from God, do your thoughts and attitudes reflect His heart?
What Does God Say about Children and Who Creates Life
“Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb is a reward. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior, so are the children of one's youth. Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them. They shall not be ashamed, But shall speak with their enemies in the gate."
Psalm 127:3-5.
"Then He (Jesus) said to them, "Whoever welcomes this little child in My name welcomes Me; and whoever welcomes Me welcomes the One who sent me. For he who is least among you all- he is the greatest."
Luke 9:48.
"All these were the sons of Hemen the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his horn. For God gave Heman fourteen sons and three daughters."
1 Chronicles 25:5.
"Obed-edom had eight sons "for God blessed him."
1 Chronicles 26:4-5.
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him:"
Colossians 1:16
"Did not He that made me in the womb make him? And did not One fashion us in the womb?"
Job 31:15.
"As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all." Ecclesiastes 11:5.
"Here am I, and the children the Lord has given me. We are signs and symbols in Israel from the Lord Almighty, who dwells on Mount Zion." Isaiah 8:18.
"Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and He that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by Myself;"
Isaiah 44:24
Leviticus 15
Another interesting scripture to consider is found in Leviticus 15 -“If a woman has a discharge and the discharge from her body is blood, she shall be set apart seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. ...When she is cleansed from her discharge, then she shall count for herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean. And on the eighth day she shall take for herself two turtle-doves or two young pigeons, and bring them to the priest, to the door of the tabernacle or meeting...and the priest shall make atonement for her before the LORD for the discharge of her uncleanness.”
Leviticus 15:19,28-30
This section of verses deal with a woman’s menstruation - or any discharge of blood. She is considered to be “unclean” for the seven days of bleeding - then she counts off an additional 7 days. On the following day she goes to the priest for atonement - 15 days after she started bleeding. For most women, that’s exactly at the time of ovulation - the only fertile time in a woman’s cycle! God set up the guidelines for sexual intimacy so that a husband and wife would be able to resume intercourse at exactly the time when conception could occur!
(Verses 25-27 discuss a woman who has a blood discharge that is beyond the normal seven days. There are those who argue that verses 28-30 only apply to that situation. However, historically - and to this day -Orthodox Jews stringently follow these guidelines without distinguishing between menstrual bleeding or bleeding from other causes, and as a result, tend to have large families. It’s interesting to note that Muslims also follow these same guidelines, and also have large families, which is causing a demographic “shift” in many areas of the world where Islam has taken root.)
Another common argument against these verses being applied to Evangelicals is that they are “Old Testament” - they “don’t apply to Christians.” While it is true that we do not live “under the law,” can we really ignore the Old Testament because it makes us uncomfortable? Doesn’t the New Testament say that the Old Testament is a “shadow” of things to come (Hebrews 10:1)?
“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:16,17
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.”
Matthew 5: 17,18
“But Didn’t God Gave Us ‘Common Sense?’”
“Couples can read these (and more) verses and agree that it is God who is the Creator of all Life. When asked, however, if they think God alone should ultimately be in control of the number and spacing of their children, their reply is often negative. “God gave us common sense, after all,” or “God gave me a brain and He expects me to use it,” are typical responses. But the Bible does not say that God expects - or wants - us to use our own logic or “common sense” - it actually says quite the opposite.”*
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.”
Isaiah 55:8-9
“There is a way that seems right to a man, but it’s end is the way of death.”
Proverbs 14:12
So if we cannot trust in ourselves to make the right decision in this matter, whom can we trust?
“Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths.”
Proverbs 3:5.
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
Isaiah 29:14.
“Where is the wise? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?…Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men…But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things that are mighty…that, as it is written, ‘He who glories, let him glory in the LORD.” 1 Corinthians 1:20, 25, 27, 31.
Does the Bible actually say anywhere that Christian couples are supposed to be exercising control over the number and spacing of their children? Many have never even thought to look and see, and have just gone along with the world’s wisdom without a second thought on the matter.
Aren’t We Supposed to Walk by Faith?
“The largest stumbling block is usually, “What about the money to feed and raise a lot of children?” That sounds right, doesn’t it? The verse typically used to support this is, “But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” 1 Timothy 5:8. Let’s take a look to see what this verse is sandwiched between. Verses 3-16 are all dealing with how widows should be treated. Verse 8 is not referring to a man providing for his family at all. It is instructing children of a widow to stay at home to care for her rather than turning her over to the care of the church. It could still be inferred that a man should provide for his household, especially since Paul also says “if anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.” 2 Thessalonians 3:10.
So, has God given directives to husbands to take control of their family size based on their own perception of finances and provisions? No! Jesus said, “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ Or ‘What shall we drink?’ Or ‘What shall we wear?’ For after all these things the Gentiles (non-believers) seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.” Matthew 6:31-34. The passages before these verses show the Lord teaching His disciples that our Father knows our needs and that we need to be concerning ourselves with the things of God rather than the things of money, food, and clothes. We cannot serve both God and mammon. In Matthew 7, Jesus continues to exhort them that we only need to ask and seek and that our Father is faithful to give good things to those who ask Him (Matthew 7:7-11).”* Here are some more verses concerning God’s provisions for His children as opposed to man’s worries over the future:
“Oh, taste and see that the LORD is good; Blessed is the man who trusts in Him! Oh fear the LORD, you His saints! There is no want to those who fear Him. The young lions lack and suffer hunger; But those who seek the LORD shall not lack any good thing.”
Psalm 34:8-10.
"O Lord, by your hand save me from such men, from men of this world whose reward is in this life. You still the hunger of those you cherish; their sons have plenty, and they store up wealth for their children."
Psalms 17:14
"I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread."
Psalms 37:25
"Then their numbers decreased, and they were humbled by oppression, calamity, and sorrow; he who pours contempt on nobles made them wander in a trackless waste. But he lifted the needy out of their affliction and increased their families like flocks. The upright see and rejoice, but all the wicked shut their mouths."
Psalm 107:39-42.
“For we walk by faith, and not by sight.”
2 Corinthians 5:7
“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen...But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”
Hebrews 11:1,6
Faith says, “God, I don’t know how we’ll take care of more children, but we’re willing to trust You for the resources we’ll need.” That’s quite different than someone who, by using birth control, says, “God I know we can’t take care of more children, and I’m not willing to trust You to provide. We can only handle one or two children. You might make a mistake and give us one child too many, so I’m going to take care of it myself.”
“But I Don’t Have Enough Time to Care for Any More!”
“God never promised any of us enough time to do all the things we want to do. Whether it be with our children or any other pursuits in our lives. We tend to live our life making our own plans and asking God to bless them as an afterthought. In our own strength we will never have enough time, or patience for that matter, to deal with our children, be it two or ten. But Jesus has patience and we get our strength from Him. Sometimes we also tend to become tunnel-visioned on meeting our children’s every whim under the guise of “needs” and feeling guilty if we cannot. We all desire to give each child our very best and plenty of time and love. But we have to face the reality that we cannot physically or mentally be all that they need. Only God can do that.”*
What’s the Difference Between Natural Family Planning (NFP) and Using Birth Control?
Couples who are using NFP to postpone pregnancy are doing so with the understanding - and willingness to accept - that God is ultimately in control of how many children they have. They do not use NFP like someone who is using the Pill or condoms - with the mind-set that they are in control. Should a pregnancy occur, the child is seen as an unexpected blessing from God - rather than a “mistake” or an “accident” - or worse still - something that needs to be “fixed” through abortion (and yes, married Christians do choose abortion, often when contraception has failed).
Couples using NFP are also cooperating with how God created them - the husband understands his wife’s cycle and is able to “live with her in understanding (1 Peter 3:7)” - they are not using drugs that can cause lasting physical harm, or devices that block the ability to fully “become one.” NFP couples seek God on issues relating to their family size on a monthly basis - they are always open to hearing from Him about His plans for their family. They treat fertility as a gift - not a disease that needs to be treated.
Couples using NFP exercise “self-control” (which is a fruit of the Spirit) - instead of using birth control. NFP couples know that they were created with the ability to choose - they are not driven by uncontrollable physical urges that must be suppressed through medication, or removed through surgery. Men and women weren’t created like dogs and cats who need to be “fixed” to control their drive to reproduce. They can willingly give up sexual intimacy for a few days each month if they have chosen to postpone pregnancy.
And there are benefits to these differences that go beyond the physical - divorce rates among NFP users are less than 5%! Since sexual intimacy isn’t available “whenever,” these couples spend a lot of time “keeping the romance alive” in their relationships - they take the time to learn how to express love to their mate in non-sexual ways. When the couple is able to be intimate, the sexual act is complete - they don’t have to worry or think about anything but enjoying the moment. Since they can’t always have “make-up sex,” they actually have to talk through the conflicts in their relationship. All of these things strengthen marriage! And that’s always good!
Couples choosing to use NFP see a positive impact on their children. As sons and daughters witness their mothers and fathers practicing a life of purity within their marriage, it sets an example for their children to follow. When sons see their fathers willingly giving up sexual intimacy so that their mothers don’t have to suffer the physical affects of birth control - they are more likely to see women as a person who deserves to be protected and cherished. When sons see their fathers choosing to give up sexual intimacy for a few days each month, they learn that they, too, can exercise self-control with their sexuality. When sons and daughters see sex as something that’s more than just a physical act, they come to value and protect their own fertility and sexuality.
And yes, couples using NFP tend to have larger families than those who contracept - but perhaps not for the reasons you might think. It’s not that their method “failed.” It’s that with each child who comes into their family, their hearts expand with love and grace, and they see them as incredible gifts, not just to their family, but to the world, and ultimately, to God. They come to realize that their ONLY “possession” with eternal value is their children! Their cars - their homes - their bank accounts - all of their earthly possessions - will burn. But a child is eternal, and is immeasurably valuable to God. They have chosen to put their “investment” into an eternal Kingdom!
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Michael Harrison,
Point One
When a person puts himself under oath, as with an oath of office, he is bound by that oath. He is not free.
In other words, he has foresworn himself to someone besides Jesus.
Point Two
According to the New Testament, every Christian is supposed to make it his ambition to lead a quiet life, work with his own hands, and mind his own business.
Of course, for one whose god is his belly, he will try to excuse himself from the commandments of the Lord in order to make divisions and take advantage of misled sheep. Those sorry wolves.
quote:
Ro 16:17 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Not so scythe! That is a twisting or bending of scripture. The man in office is not determinately considered to be a slave. It may be possible to cast him in that light to make a case relative to something not determined in this particular discussion. And to be even more clear, we understand that a property of being a slave is 'ownership'. In other words, someone owns you and dictates your behavior. But the politician to which you refer, is a servant, not a slave. We are called to be servants.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Michael Harrison,
Amazement is a strange thing. It effects all.
quote:
1Co 7:20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.
21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.
When a person becomes a politician, he has to take an oath of office obligating himself to men.
If that person becomes a Christian, he comes under new instruction.
quote:
Jas 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
Mt 5:33 ¶ Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
Thus, that politician can NOT take a new oath of office and continue in obedience to the One who bought us with His own precious blood. He can become free, and, according to Paul (who told us that the things he wrote were the commandments of the Lord Jesus Christ), he must become free.
This allows the ex-politician to become obedient to another commandment of our Lord Jesus Christ:
quote:
1Th 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Believers,
quote:
1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
The word interpreted "conversation" is "politeuma".
Strong's gives it this definition:
1) the administration of civil affairs or of a commonwealth
2) the constitution of a commonwealth, form of government and the laws by which it is administered
3) a state, commonwealth
3a) the commonwealth of citizens
Obviously, our citizenship is in heaven. That is the place from which we get our occupation orders.
Is Jesus REALLY in charge?
He says ALL authority in heaven and in earth are His.
Is Jesus REALLY Truth?
Is Jesus still REALLY with us?
I believe that God is, and, that He is the Rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Otherwise, I am put into the position of believing that what He began in the Spirit I must finish in the flesh.
There is no hope in that position.
Jesus said this about Himself:
quote:
Jn 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.
If I bear witness of Jesus, it WILL put me among those about which Jesus said this (I do not mean that I am an apostle, of course):
quote:
Jn 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.
So John encouraged us on this wise:
quote:
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world’s good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
I hate abortion. I, also, hate oppression. God hates both, as well.
However, oppression is one of the things makes pregnant women feel they need an abortion.
Besides, twenty eight years of chasing that abortion "carrot" should be enough to prove to you that those who offer such things are not sincere.
quote:
Pro 23:1 When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before thee:
2 And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite.
3 Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat.
4 Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom.
5 Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven.
6 Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats:
7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
8 The morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words.
I know.
It's just Bible.
IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
"abortion is so misunderstood...
the religious mind of the churched think because they do not have an abortion in an abortion clinic they are not guilty of abortion but in reality using the same understanding Yahshua brought out about lusting in the mind being the same as committing adultery and hating someone the same as committing murder, anyone that does anything to keep a baby from being produced during sexual union is guilty of abortion..."
When Christians are taxed and that money is used to kill unborn americans it makes them part of that state funded act.
The withdraw method is a Biblical birth control..
And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.
Onan wasnt slew for his use of the method but for his evil thought.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
Amen WildB praying For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty, that's exactly what every true believer should be doing every day....
and don't you just love that Bible story how the people in Nineveh turn their nation around when Jonah came and preached to them about their wickedness and told them they needed to elect another leader to save their nation and they elected another king and Yahweh spared them....
wait that's not right, let me see how did that happen in Nineveh?
oh that's right the people and the leaders, all humble themselves, prayed, sought, craved, and require of necessity the face of Yahweh and turn from their wicked ways, and then Yahweh heard from heaven, and healed their nation. (and they were pagans)
scythewieldor taking your thought to a little higher level...abortion is so misunderstood...
the religious mind of the churched think because they do not have an abortion in an abortion clinic they are not guilty of abortion but in reality using the same understanding Yahshua brought out about lusting in the mind being the same as committing adultery and hating someone the same as committing murder, anyone that does anything to keep a baby from being produced during sexual union is guilty of abortion...
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Believers,
quote:
Col 3:1 ¶ If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5 ¶ Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Eph 5:1 ¶ Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 ¶ But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
There is a people that have voted against abortion for 28 years without realizing that they were, at the same time, voting for oppression.
During that 28 years, oppression has increased, but abortion has not gone away.
In fact, the ones who use abortion like a carrot to lead voters are the oppressors who can not afford to give those voters that carrot.
If they got rid of abortion, what could they use to keep voters supporting their oppression?
What would keep that activated constituency from demanding that jobs and technology be kept here so that incomes could keep up with debt-driven inflation? And, that those jobs and technologies be kept from Christian-persecuting, freedom-hating shores?
What would keep that activated constituency from demanding that perversion be removed from our schools?
What would keep that activated constituency from demanding that America go back on a Gold and Silver Monetary Standard so that righteous men could lay up for their widows and children and grandchildren without fear of inflation. (Don't fool yourselves about wealth being in stocks and bonds. The lobbyists for those interests are a huge part of the oppression establishment.)
Ironically, the Moral Majority helped provide the set-up for the cry for "change". The Moral Majority kept supporting oppressive leadership that offered the fragrance and vision of abortion illegalized- but would not deliver.
Oppressive leadership may, actually, illegalize abortion, someday- when the concern for free markets completely replaces the concern for free people in the thinking of the population. Then, every pregnancy results in a property to be bought and sold.
As that day draws nearer, the un-churched realizes that they can not endure the Moral Majority's support of values which include covetousness (which is idolatry). I guess they figure that if it is OK for the Moral Majority to produce such bad government, they may as well produce a government that is bad in favor of themselves. Besides, what good is the pursuit of illegalized abortion when the increasing oppression is resulting in higher suicide rates.
Death is death. And the mind set on the flesh is death.
IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear WildB,
That prayer on behalf of all men, for all kings and all who are in positions of authority is my first prayer in the morning.I pray: - that we may lead peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and dignity, and,
- that the word of the Lord will have free course, and be glorified, and,
- that God will deliver us from the unreasonable and the wicked.
quote:
2Th 3:1 ¶ Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:
2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.
5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
Thank you for urging us to continue doing good.
IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
1Tim.2
[1] I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
[2] For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
[3] For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
[4] Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
Amen scythewieldor and Brian, this is not Yahweh's Kingdom, so it is not my Kingdom or yours if you are truly a child of Yahweh's.
All politicians are liars, they make promises they can not keep.
The key to a nation becoming great is one thing and only one thing.....If My people, who are called by My name, shall humble themselves, pray, seek, crave, and require of necessity My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, forgive their sin, and heal their land.
voting will change nothing.....voting only changes one evil leader for another evil leader...
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Very well said caretaker.
We are not 'yoked' with them scytheweildor. It never ceases to amaze me. Have you not considered:
\
- Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Moreover, "keep them from evil" can include (though it is not the literal meaning) setting a good government over them. But it says that HE does not pray the Father that HE take them 'out' of the world. Want more? Well, here it is anyway.
- 1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
Have ye not heard that ye are in the world, but not 'of' the world. You also are a witness to these whom you distance yourself from. And if you doubt whether you should be 'associated' with them:
- 1Co 7:20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.
If one is a politician when he becomes saved, potentially he is to stay in the position wherein he was called. I have heard it preached that not all become preachers. Some are housewives. Some are breadwinners. Everyone is someone, but they are not automatically called to preach or teach. They should stay what they are unless it becomes understood that they are to move into something else. But if they are called as owners of a business that sells something undesirable, there is no doubt that they should leave. Perhaps they could stay if they wanted to witness to their customers! But of course if they did that they would soon be out of customers. So it is the same.
But you are in the world. You are called to leave it in your heart, and in principle, but not physically. You are not supposed to remove yourself from it but minister HIM to it.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
|
posted
Vote for the candidate who best represents your world view. If you do not vote then you help elect the winner by default.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Believers,
We ARE stewards of something more precious than America.
quote:
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
The faith that has been authored and finished by the One who bought us with His own precious blood holds the teachings that will do America more good than the support of the false messiahs of the false gods of the political parties- regardless of the words of their false prophets.
quote:
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
The fact is that our enfluence is decreased because we are yoked with unbelievers in the political parties.
quote:
2Co 10:12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
13 Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
7:1 ¶ Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
This is an age of "believers" who let unbelievers change their thinking. According to the gentiles, it is more blessed to receive than to give. That is the tenor of their false prophecy- "Greed is Good".
Oh, for an Elijah to declare:
quote:
1Ki 18:21 ...How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him...
Oh, that the stumblingblocks would be removed from before the people of the Lord.
IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Believers,
The authorities are from God.
quote:
Ro 13:1 ¶ Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 ¶ Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
However, their access to the wisdom of God and the power of God is the sons of God in Christ. Therefore, if we do not disciple them- if, instead, we let them disciple us- they will go on according to their philosophies and vain deceit to more corruption.
quote:
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
IP: Logged |
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Believers,
The authorities are from God.
IP: Logged |
|
|
The Beauty of Holiness777
Advanced Member
Member # 7380
|
posted
![[youpi]](graemlins/youpi.gif) ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
WOW! ![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif) I think this post is in the wrong forum.
--------------------
In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}
Posts: 192 | From: God's Universe | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
my momma told me not to discuss politics but to discuss Christianity.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
quote:
Scytheweildor quote:
There are people around us that use dialectical materialism expertly. Dialectical materialism is a psychological warfare technique used to force people into a paradigm by making them believe that there are only two paradigms- the "good" one and the "bad" one. In this way, we are spoiled, literally, through philosphy and vain deceit.
quote:
Brian grass quote:
An understanding of the state needs to be made first before you decide how to use it. The state is institutionalized violence and all that it does is done by violence. So now what you need to do is ask yourself first of all, should a christian be using violence at all? If you say no, and believe Christ has called you to be a pacifist, then you should give no support to the state and be no part of it. If you believe violence is acceptable for defensive purposes, then a non coercive state is acceptable to you and the only function of the state for you to support and use would be in defense against aggression.(That's were I sit) If you believe that violence is a tool that is acceptable to use to assert ownership over others, then you need to read you Bible some more.
We are called, I believe, to defend our neighbors as we are called to love them. We are not called to punish and seek revenge.
Yours is the mentality which concerns me most; for it is exactly the mentality which has literally enabled an Obama bid for the presidency to exist. It is one of complacency. It is one of apathy in the name of pacifism. What is more, if you do not believe in ‘violence’ as a tool which is acceptable to use to assert ownership over others, then you need to understand what you will get in an ObamaNation, that you are not understanding. Obama is a violent person, yet undiscovered. It is apparent in his associations, and clever tactics. That is the amazing thing about him, that it is not apparent at all to the casual observers. He cleverly conceals it. That is why he has an almost mystical appeal to so many, in that he does not appear so. People see only good. That is why he is tagged as, “Messiah” by some observers. It is a Jim Jones syndrome which is unfortunately affecting half of a nation, and has the potential to devastate the whole.
We know that Jim Jones led a sizable group of people to a most unfortunate end, by requiring their suicide at gunpoint not a great while ago. These people believed in him. They believed that he was nonviolent, and followed after, expecting something, though they may not have known what. They paid for their ignorance. No one was spared. Even tender, innocent children were destroyed.
Obama is a Trojan horse, and the sheer numbers of people like you who are out thee are the reason why people need to pray. For some of you is in them. All I can do is make the case. Obama is not a friend of Christianity. Never mind Scytheweildor’s argument about dialectical materialism and psychological warfare, we are the tenders of that which is committed to us, and our “State” is no less a part of that for which we are responsible. After all, who would live in a home which is unhealthy for living things? Do you not clean your home, or apartment? Do you purchase air-cleaners, aerosols, cleaning and cultivating tools suitable for grooming your place? Do not you the same for your body? Do you care for your garden or do you plant it and let it be overrun by critters and weeds? So do we have a responsibility for our government. And we are the only nation who has one worth tending, because we are allowed. So one day, those who are like you will look back and wonder what they were thinking! My prayer, in spite of all of you is that it is not today. You will still get your chance, because there are too many who just don't get it.
You said we are called to defend our neighbors. Then you should vote so that they may be spared of the avenging angle, i.e. the judgment of God. Vote together with your prayers, that they will be delivered from themselves.
And by the way, reading the bible does some people not a lick of good. For they read with themselves and their concepts as their god, rather than reading with seeking the author in mind. I will remind people of the relationship of the prophets with Israel. God spoke to them through the prophets to guide them and what did they do? It varies. But in many cases they stoned them. And Israel went into exile. Read and see how that it was not pretty! For the worst befell them in some of those instances. I mean it was brutal.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
