|
Author
|
Topic: where is the midst of the earth?
|
Isaiah
Advanced Member
Member # 6699
|
posted
Jus' sayin -I'm an Israelite -not in Jerusalem -'sall I'm sayin'. Everyone needs a good nyah nyah every now and then, though -cheers.
I must say...you were quite thorough. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posts: 288 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
scythewieldor
unregistered
|
posted
Dear friends,
I go with Kindgo about Jerusalem.
quote:
Deu 33:13 And of Joseph he said, Blessed of the LORD be his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath,
14 And for the precious fruits brought forth by the sun, and for the precious things put forth by the moon,
15 And for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the lasting hills,
16 And for the precious things of the earth and fulness thereof, and for the good will of him that dwelt in the bush: let the blessing come upon the head of Joseph, and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren.
17 His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
Jos 17:14 ¶ And the children of Joseph spake unto Joshua, saying, Why hast thou given me but one lot and one portion to inherit, seeing I am a great people, forasmuch as the LORD hath blessed me hitherto?
15 And Joshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee up to the wood country, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee.
16 And the children of Joseph said, The hill is not enough for us: and all the Canaanites that dwell in the land of the valley have chariots of iron, both they who are of Bethshean and her towns, and they who are of the valley of Jezreel.
17 And Joshua spake unto the house of Joseph, even to Ephraim and to Manasseh, saying, Thou art a great people, and hast great power: thou shalt not have one lot only:
18 But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down: and the outgoings of it shall be thine: for thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots, and though they be strong.
1 Chr 9:1Ch 9:3 And in Jerusalem dwelt of the children of Judah, and of the children of Benjamin, and of the children of Ephraim, and Manasseh;
The children of Ephraim and Manasseh did live at Jerusalem, if, in no other way, by representation. They were a great people, even in the days of Joshua.
The only issue to settle is this: Is a multitude to be taken more as the number of a great people or as the number of the sands of the sea? One has been accomplished in Zion, already. The other may may not have been.
If a multitude is to be seen more as the number of a great people, it may not have been promised that the number that is like the sands of the sea will ever live in Zion.
quote:
Ro 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Nevertheless, when Israel is returned, they will say the land is too small for them.
quote:
Is 49:13 ¶ Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.
14 But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.
15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
17 Thy children shall make haste; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee.
18 ¶ Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth.
19 For thy waste and thy desolate places, and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the inhabitants, and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away.
20 The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell.
21 Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been?
22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.
It is to this that Paul refers, I believe, when he, in Galatians, sites the 54th chapter of Isaiah.
quote:
Ga 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Notice how Paul identifies "our mother" as the "barren that bearest not".
Since many of us believe that a text taken out of context is pretext, let us consider the context of the prophecy from which this text was pulled.
quote:
Isa 54:1 ¶ Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
6 ¶ For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.
11 ¶ O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.
12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.
16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
The Jerusalem which is above, the heavenly Jerusalem, will come down. The dimension of that place, as I read The Revelation, is vast. If I have read that dimension rightly, the diagonal of it would reach, almost, from the Rock of Gibraltar to Istanbul.
Remember. It is as tall as it is broad, reaching outside the atmosphere of this earth, I think.
Fascinating! There could be a lot of room.
Oh yeah. When you compare the description of the desolate woman with other prophecies to Israel, it becomes clear that she can be no other than Israel.
Our mother.
Israel.
Nyaa, nyaa. (Shame on me. I couldn't resist that.)
IP: Logged |
|
|
Isaiah
Advanced Member
Member # 6699
|
posted
Yes -Jerusalem is central in most every way. -Just saying that something that is "in the midst of the sea" or anything else isn't necessarily in its absolute center -just as not all Israelites are bunched up around Jerusalem at present.
Pro 23:34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
...this also applies to people just off shore.
Posts: 288 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Hi, Isaiah, and nice to meet you, Kindgo...Isaiah, you said quote:
"Midst of the earth" does not necessarily mean in its center
However, geographically speaking, it is true that region of Israel and Lebanon and Syria and Arabia and Iraq is called the middle east.
And it is also true that when we use the phrase the West, that we mean the countries west of the middle east.
And likewise, it is also true that when we use the phrase the East, we mean the countries to the east of the middle east, right?
So that means that Jerusalem is in the midst of the earth:
Genesis 48:16
The Angel who redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
Exodus 8:22
And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the LORD in the midst of the earth.
Psalm 74:12
For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth.
Isaiah 5:8
Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!
Daniel 4:10
Thus were the visions of my head in my bed; I saw and beheld a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
Ezekiel 5:5
Thus says the Lord GOD; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are around her.
In Ezekiel 5:5, the word midst in Hebrew is:
Strong's Concordance
Ezekiel 5:5 Thus saith 0559 the Lord 0136 GOD 03069; This is Jerusalem 03389: I have set 07760 it in the midst 08432 of the nations 01471 and countries 0776 [that are] round about 05439 her.
When I looked at 8432 in Strong's Concordance, it proved Isaiah (the poster, not the prophet) correct when he said that midst also can mean a more general meaning like "in the midst of Egypt", where it means "among all".
But I think that the West and the East, which is measured FROM the middle east countries, does speak volumes that the midst fo the earth is not at Greenwich, England, unless of the Anglo-Saxons in England are descendants of Isaac:
Amos 7:16
Now therefore hear you the word of the LORD: You say, Prophesy not against Israel, and drop not your word against the house of Isaac.
sons of Isaac...saacsons....saxons...they found refuge with the Angli on the isles of the sea...Anglo-Saxons. Are they the escapees from Assyria and from Media after the Medes and Chaldean Babylonians defeated the Assrians and destroyed Nineveh.
The northern house of Israel never returned to their land, but the house of Judah did. In the vacuum created by the fall of Nineveh, did the house of Israel rise up and ascend through the Caucasuc Pass and ended up around the Black Sea?
And when the Central Eurosian hordes such as Genghis Khan came riding on their horses west across the grass plains which extend into Hungary, the Eurosian hordes pushed the Israelites around the Black Sea up the Danube and into the wilds of Europe and so came to the Germanic lands next to the European Atlantic Ocean, and there became known as the sons of Isaac...saacsons....saxons...
A very interesting question is whether those who become Christians among the Gentiles are all formerly of the house of Israel, but I do think that God has now extended salvation to all:
Luke 14
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as you have commanded, and still there is room.
23 Then the lord said to the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say to you, That none of those men who were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Luke 14
21 So that servant came, and showed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
Who are the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind? Are they not the Japhetic Gentiles and Shemites of the world:
Isaiah 49:6
And he said, It is a light thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give you for a light to the Gentiles, that you may be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
Revelation 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him who hears say, Come. And let him who thirsts come. And whosoever will let him take freely of the water of life.
eden
"talk about drifting off subject"
IP: Logged |
|
|
Isaiah
Advanced Member
Member # 6699
|
posted
Jerusalem is definitely the reference point for many things in the bible(as in Daniel..king of the north, king of the south -refernced from Jerusalem), but this is not to say that the descendents of Ephraim and Manesseh are all located in Jerusalem.
"Isa 5:8 Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!"
"Midst of the earth" does not necessarily mean in its center -but can generally mean in or on the earth, though Ephraim and Manesseh -as well as the other tribes -did go out from around Jerusalem to where they reside today -having come to their blessings and birthrights.
The modern nation of Israel -which can be seen on a map -Is Judah in prophecy -and primarily so in genealogy, though many from the house of Judah (Judah, Benjamin-some Levites, I think)
also reside elsewhere.
However, the house of Israel -including the half-tribes of Ephraim and Manesseh -Gad, Asher, Simeon, etc....was prophesied to be sifted through the gentile nations, and lose their original language....
Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Dan, though not counted among the 12 tribes in Revelation -from which will come the 144,000 -can be traced to Danmark(Denmark) and beyond.
Ephraim is also not mentioned in Revelation, though the promises made to Ephraim, Manesseh
and Israel as a whole were not withheld.
Abraham's children were to be for number as the sand of the sea shore -as the stars of heaven. This also includes non-Israelite peoples, but Israel is so numerous it could not even be contained in the whole of the land mass of modern Israel.
This gets into some controversial stuff, but, generally speaking, the descendents of the house of Israel can be found in the U.S., Britain, Australia, and other places. I know I am at least one person to whom that applies, but many of those tribes do not even realize who they are. As I said -this is controversial -though it can be proven by genealogies, etc...
In any case, they will all eventually be gathered again to around Jerusalem -out of their modern nations, out of their captivity, and out of their graves.
Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
Eze 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Posts: 288 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
|
posted
"This is Jerusalem; I have set her in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her." Ezekiel 5:5
What city in the entire world is the "key" to Bible Prophecy? Is it Washington, Moscow, London, Paris, Peking, Tokyo, or Capetown? None of these! only one city in world history has been called "The City of God" (Psalms 87:3).
This city is called "Jebus, Salem, The Holy City, City of God, Zion, City of David, and Jerusalem." it is thought to have been in existence as far back as Genesis 14:18 where it is called "Salem": "And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God." However, the first certain reference to it in the Bible by the current name, "Jerusalem", is in 1451 B.C. according to date.
This would be over 3,400 years ago and makes it one of the oldest cities in the world. "Now it came to pass when Adonizedek, king of Jerusalem had heard how Joshua had taken Ali ....(Joshua 10:1). David moved his capitol from Hebron to Jerusalem about 1,000 B.C.
The Word "Jerusalem" means "City of Peace." This is ironical, for rivers of blood have been shed for its possession. it has been conquered over thirty times. The walls have been destroyed and rebuilt many times. in the books of Ezra and Nehemiah we have one account of the rebuilding of the walls.
There have been so many Jerusalem buildings and walls demolished that it is said in certain areas that houses stand upon as much as thirty feet of rubble, rock and remain's of previous buildings and walls.
God chose Jerusalem to be His special city: "But I have chosen Jerusalem, that My name might be there." (2 Chronicles 6:6). "Jerusalem, the city which the LORD has chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, to put His name there" (2 Chronicles 12:13).
God said that it is in the MIDDLE of the nations. "Thus saith the Lord GOD: This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst (middle of) the nations and countries that are round about her" (Ezekiel 5:5).
It is the world's "Navel". ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif)
--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Where is the midst of the earth?
Genesis 48:16
The Angel who redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads {Ephraim and Manasseh}; and let my name be named upon them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them {Ephraim and Manasseh} grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
Is that at Greenwich?
The middle of the West is presumably in the Mid-West, and the middle of the East is presumably in the Middle East.
But is the midst of the earth then at Greenwich?
eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
