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Topic: 144,000
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scythewieldor
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Dear friends,
Replacement theology was created by the Jews.
quote:
Is 48:1 ¶ Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.
As the remnant of Israel, the house of Judah sought to parlay the loss of their brothers to the north into an acquisition of the birthright of Jacob.
quote:
Ho 5:10 The princes of Judah were like them that remove the bound: therefore I will pour out my wrath upon them like water.
11 Ephraim is oppressed and broken in judgment, because he willingly walked after the commandment.
Eze 11:14 ¶ Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
15 Son of man, thy brethren, even thy brethren, the men of thy kindred, and all the house of Israel wholly, are they unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, Get you far from the LORD: unto us is this land given in possession.
16 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come.
17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.
God was displeased with the Jewish willingness to let the lost sheep of Israel stay lost. As you read the next passage, keep in mind that the shepherds of Israel were the men of Judah. The scepter given to Judah by Jacob has not changed.
quote:
Eze 34:1 ¶ And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.
7 ¶ Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
8 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
11 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.
13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.
14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.
15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.
16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.
17 ¶ And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.
18 Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet?
19 And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet.
20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle.
21 Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad;
22 Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.
23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
24 And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.
25 And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.
26 And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing.
27 And the tree of the field shall yield her fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase, and they shall be safe in their land, and shall know that I am the LORD, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them.
28 And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid.
29 And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more.
30 Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord GOD.
31 And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord GOD.
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Isaiah
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Will look into that -thanks. ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif)
Posts: 288 | Registered: Aug 2007
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Eden
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Hi, Isaiah, you said, quote:
Most imortant to note is that in prophecy, Judah refers to the house of Judah and Israel to the house of Israel -until God reunites them.
There are instances in which Judah is still called Israel, so that I had to start calling them Israel-Judah and Israel-Ephraim because there are instances in the Bible when the house of Judah is just called....Israel, even after the split.
I don't have any examples off hand for you, but I learned that from reading a book called Judah's Scepter, Joseph's Birthright, and as I began to look for that differentiation in my Bible readings I found that even the house of Judah was still called "Israel" by itself, so that I had to start adding Israel-Judah or Israel-Ephraim.
But undoubtedly after Israel split into 2 kingdoms, the majority of the references to Israel are to the house of Israel.
eden
Seek first the kingdom of God and all these things shall be added on to you.
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Isaiah
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The 144000 are sealed just before the earth is "hurt" in a major way...
Rev 7:2-3 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
and...
Rev 9:3-6 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. (etc..it gets worse from there)
but anyway....
Jew is essentially a slang term. It can be confusing. It is derived from Judah. Specifically, it means of Judah. Generally, it means of the house of Judah -as the house of Israel was called Israel and the house of Judah were "the Jews" when the kingdom split. It also was used to reference the difference in religious beliefs, even among the whole of Israel..As in...Gal 1:13 "For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:"
and...
Joh 7:2 "Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand."
Make no mistake... All of the apostles were Israelites, but there was a distinction between Israelites and Jews in the general community due to animosity caused by years of war, etc...
Also, Christ, the apostles and the new testament church of God also kept the sabbath and holy days -just as the "Jews" did -but the Jewish "religion" did not accept Christ as the Messiah.
Jew can also mean one of the Jewish religion -not necessarily Israelite at all.
It can also mean one of the church of God -which does believe in Christ..that is... a spiritual "Jew" -spiritually circumcised -
as in...Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Some do refer to the whole of Israel as Jews -Jewry -though many do not understand that most of Israel is not recognized as such today -even among themselves.
Isa 1:3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
Most imortant to note is that in prophecy, Judah refers to the house of Judah and Israel to the house of Israel -until God reunites them.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
but what is really important is that we get along and love each other -YAY!!!! ![[hyper]](graemlins/hyper.gif)
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Kindgo
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Hi Eden BA is behind that name I bet.. ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif)
They are all JEWS.... the children of Israel (Jacob)
are all Jews.
The 144,000 people from the tribes of Israel are simply those the Bible says they are.
Various cults try to identify themselves as the 144,000, but God even named the twelve tribes to make clear whom He meant.
Ephraim and Dan aren't included in this list of the tribes, but Levi and Joseph are.
And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.
One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed: This is their general identification. They are of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Ethnically, they are Jewish , and there are 144,000 of these chosen ones.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
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Eden
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Hi, Kindgo. Someone already touched on the subject but you said, quote:
They are 144,000 Jews-12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel.
There were not 144,000 Jews but 144,000 Israelites
Technically, the Jews are only the descendants of one tribe, namely of the tribe of Judah. So there will not be 144,000 Jews, there will only be 12,000 Jews.
However, it could be argued that all the members of the southern kingdom of Judah were called Jews, and since the kingdom of Judah included Benjamin and Levi, it could be argued that there will be 3 times 12,000 "Jews" = 36,000 Jews, meaning that out of the total 144,000 Israelites, either 12,000 will be Jews, or 36,000 will be Jews (meaning Biblically they came fromo the southern kingdom of Judah after the split between Rehoboam and Jeroboam I.
But 144,000 Jews is not possible.
eden
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Isaiah
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True -God likens Israel to an unfaithful wife..
Jer 3:1 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.
It is rather difficult, after Haran, to trace the migration of those particular Assyrians -but it can be done. Those who fled northwest when defeated were those who held the power -leaving the rest -who know themselves as Assyrians today(In Iraq, etc...)
Few non-religious persons/historians have any reason to look for such a link, but the assertions of the religious can be checked against non-religious historical writings.
(such as... http://cgca.net/coglinks/wcglit/hoehcompendium/hhc2toc.htm
-and many more...)
It is obvious from the bible that the Assyrian will play a huge role as aggressor in end-time prophecy -against nearly the whole world, and it is highly unlikely that this refers to those who inhabit such areas as Iraq today. (Not so ironically, the US recently went to the ancient site of Assyria and cropped off their high branch!)
As for Britain, I was not referring to anything official or religious -but rather to actual genealogy.
It cannot be denied that many descendents of Israel reside in Britain and the US -I know I am at least one -so the question is really about the application of prophecy. I have found that many of those who believe the prophecies concerning Ephraim, Manesseh..the house of Israel, etc...refer to the US, Britain, Australia, etc...are quite concerned about Judah -not hostile, and are also wary of Germany as the Assyrian in prophecy -the tragic events of World War II -and future events - being seen as a modern type of Israel's ancient captivity under Assyria.
It is believed the prophet Jeremiah eventually settled in Scotland -taking with him Jacob's pillar stone, and a female from the line of David. This is one of many links on the subject which can be found by using the search terms "Jacob's pillar stone"....
http://members.aol.com/Skyelander/stone.html
[There is also a distinct lack of mainstream media interest in the E.U. -(but the intelligence community and their public information outlets are a good source for that.)]
Anyway -this is a huge subject and I don't want to divert the thread to another subject. I think I was trying to give support for a previous assertion about the 144,000
anyway -ooops
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scythewieldor
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Dear Isaiah,
I read all of your post. I don't really have a confirmation of the Assyrian/Germany connection. Having been exposed to British Israelite stuff, I have weighed and found wanting their claims to Israelite superiority.
Their just racists who like having a religion headed by their own crown. (Only one of the ones I have met had a genuine interest in seeing black people get saved.)
Regarding some statements you made about unclear portions of my last post, here goes.
Judah had the sceptre of Israel. That wasn't enough. They coveted the good part of Zion- the part that Ephraim got. They coveted the name, Israel, which Jacob gave to Joseph's sons. The name of Abraham and Isaac was, also, given to Joseph's sons.
quote:
Ge 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
Am 7:16 Now therefore hear thou the word of the LORD: Thou sayest, Prophesy not against Israel, and drop not thy word against the house of Isaac
Judah felt slighted.
Making a deal with the king of Babylon, they could use the "land of traffick and "a city of merchants" to get control over the nations of the earth through debt. I believe the men of Judah know that God's Spirit has been poured out on Israel. To prevent our understanding the purposes of God, they help start separatist denominations- particularly, denominations which will interpret The Revelation as literally as they can except when they get to references about Babylon.
The reason the men of Judah want to focus interpretation of Babylon towards some city that is not Babylon is because they are hiding in Babylon (not literally, now, for a thousand years).
quote:
Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Is 29:15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter’s clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
17 ¶ Is it not yet a very little while, and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest?
18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 47:5 Sit thou silent, and get thee into darkness, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called, The lady of kingdoms.
So, the king of Judah made his covenant with the king of Babylon, forsook the breast of Israel (the wife of his youth), and married the daughter of a strange god.
quote:
Mal 2:11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god.
12 The LORD will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the LORD of hosts.
13 And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand.
14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.
Gen 49:22 ¶ Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)
25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.
Gen 49:10 (YLT) The sceptre turneth not aside from Judah, And a lawgiver from between his feet, Till his Seed come; And his is the obedience of peoples.
To me it looks like Judah hid in Babylon cultivating Babylonian interests (commerce) as he developed a network of lending for usury which made the borrowers (to include kings and, even, nations) his own servants.
When the Babylonian religion was sufficiently covered with darkness (forgotten) and lies, Judah took his old rent-a-wife abroad and began recruiting men to something to which one is bound by a strong oath, and which one only understands in stages (and only as the high cedars of Lebanon decide you are ready to know).
Those who were approved, also, got special access to the network as operatives to increase the realm debt.
All the while, Judah and Babylon are trying to stay hidden. Oaths of secrecy. Passwords. Secret handshakes. Buildings with no windows, and guards at the door.
The king of Babylon wants to keep Judah "a low nation". However, now, the Spirit of God is gathering that nation which Judah vexed: Israel.
The Shepherd of Israel is gathering the lost sheep into another nation. The Lion of Judah is leading Joseph like a flock back home- back to Zion.
And Judah has to thwart that. When Joseph is a nation, he will be a blessing to all the families of the earth teaching the gentiles to "lend expecting nothing in return"- neither principle nor interest. He will teach the gentiles to give to the poor; and to forgive debts and to love your enemies (no more expensive wars for which money can be lent) and other things the denominations ignore.
Joseph will even have mercy on Judah, he will win his brother.
O people of God, come out of Babylon.
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Isaiah
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What God will do, no man can prevent. It was God who said he would scatter the house of Israel, and he who has appointed a time to gather them again.(Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. Eze 37:21-22 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:)
There has been much drama, politics and war between the tribes of Israel, but
I'm not sure what you meant about Judah keeping the others from Zion.
The modern king of Babylon -the beast who will rule (ol' Mr. 666, if you will) -receiving great power and twisted insight from Satan himself, will certainly be no admirer of Israel, but those of Israel and Judah who deal with him will not see him for what he is. He will destroy many by PEACE (Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.) [This beast and his kings will eventually attempt to war with the returning Christ(Rev 17:14, Zec 14:3)]
Both the house of Israel and Judah turn to this world power to settle the mideast peace problem (Hos 5:13 When Ephraim saw his sickness, and Judah saw his wound, then went Ephraim to the Assyrian, and sent to king Jareb: yet could he not heal you, nor cure you of your wound.)
-among others -but as God had written...(Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.)
Only the return of Christ will bring peace to Jerusalem. Israel and Judah turn to "Babylon" -led by the Assyrian -who will then double-cross them, and cause much destruction -eventually leading to the setting up of the abomination of desolation(Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh....
Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
....Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.)
Judah and Israel will be high on the beast's hit list. Isaiah 10 describes what will happen to the house of Israel at the hand of the Assyrian -and Judah's destruction...Isa 10:24-25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt. For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction.
and also...Isa 14:25-26 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders. This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
So...though this Assyrian will have destroyed many nations, will destroy the modern nations of the house of Israel, take many captive, march on Jerusalem and desolate it -God will break him there. God will definitely chasten Israel and Judah -because he loves them -at the hand of the Assyrian(Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.)but will then chasten the Assyrian (Isa 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.)
-and God will save Judah FIRST.
Zec 12:7-9 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah. In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
God will definitely set up David again, etc...
-but more as a prince to Christ's kingship -as David became king in the first place due to Israel rejecting God....
Eze 37:24-25 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children forever: and my servant David shall be their prince forever.
Satan knows he will not attain God's throne -he attempted a coup and was put down -and knows he will soon be restrained(Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.)
The house of Israel left FROM around Jerusalem -going many places, but primarily northwest -parallel to the Assyrians, as per the riddle/parable. God gave a clue as to their path in the name of one of the tribes -Dan.
Gen 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. (also translated "as a serpent's trail"). Dan had a custom of naming things after the name of Dan.(Jos 19:47, Jdg 18:12, Jdg 18:29) They continued to do so... from the Danube delta and river...even to present-day Denmark(Danmark). This name can be seen in the names of many places and people in various forms (dan, din, doon, dun, etc..) from Jerusalem, through Europe and to the new world.
Ephraim inhabited the British isles...(brith ish -meaning "of the covenant")...and Manesseh moved on to the new world. -coming to their blessings from God spoken by their father (Gen 48:16)
The U.S. is the first great eagle of Ezekiel 17-"A great eagle with great wings, long-winged, full of feathers, which had divers colors"
and Britain is the second-
"another great eagle with great wings and many feathers: and, behold, this vine did bend her roots toward him"
The Assyrian -Germany -at least the warring portion -was set as a willow tree... http://www.flickr.com/photos/70748714@N00/119071910/ ... which sent roots under the first great eagle and toward the second, etc...(look up http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/ , Siemens, Daimler/Chrysler, Thyssen Krupp, Degesch America, etc...)
..but Germany was defeated in WWII -mostly due to the perseverance of the British -though the U.S. helped in the end and Russia also insisted on some fame -or, as the bible puts it..
Eze 17:9 Say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Shall it prosper? shall he not pull up the roots thereof, and cut off the fruit thereof, that it wither? it shall wither in all the leaves of her spring, even without great power or many people to pluck it up by the roots thereof.
Germany is rising again -at the head of the E.U. -which will eventually be controlled by this Assyrian -who will be finally destroyed by the returning Christ. However, before his final defeat, armies from the north and east,(primarily Russia and China), will eventually destroy his power and send him packing to the middle east. (Eze 17:10 Yea, behold, being planted, shall it prosper? shall it not utterly wither, when the east wind toucheth it? it shall wither in the furrows where it grew.
Dan 11:44-45 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.)
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scythewieldor
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Dear Isaiah,
I do believe that this was written to the house of Israel. It is interesting that the twig seems to have come from a tall cedar of Lebanon.
However, I believe it is addressed to Israel as a clue to help Israelites know how the men of Judah are keeping us from coming back to Zion.
quote:
Eze 11:14 ¶ Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
15 Son of man, thy brethren, even thy brethren, the men of thy kindred, and all the house of Israel wholly, are they unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, Get you far from the LORD: unto us is this land given in possession.
16 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come.
17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.
18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence.
19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
21 But as for them whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their way upon their own heads, saith the Lord GOD.
The men of Judah were the old inhabitants of Jerusalem. When Israel was gone, the men of Judah wanted all of the promised land for themselves and would not go looking for the lost sheep. In fact, they even started calling themselves Israel, thus becoming as men who move a boundary.
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Eze 34:2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.
7 ¶ Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
8 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
11 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.
13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.
14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.
15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.
16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.
17 ¶ And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.
The Tribe of Judah was the sceptre tribe of Israel. It was the job of the house of David of the Tribe of Judah to lead Joseph like a flock. Eventually, this mandate got back on track with the advent of Lord Jesus.
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Ps 80:1 Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth.
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Isa 48:1 Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.
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Ho 5:10 The princes of Judah were like them that remove the bound: therefore I will pour out my wrath upon them like water.
When the king of Judah made covenant with the king of Babylon, the covenant which was arranged between David and Israel took a very serious hit.
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2 Chr 13:5 Ought ye not to know that the LORD God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever, even to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt?
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Mal 2:11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god.
All of these clues, to me, amount to evidence of a three way agreement between Lucifer, the king of Babylon, and the king of Judah that has continued recruiting and working to this day.
- Lucifer intends to set his throne above God's.
- The king of Babylon intends to keep Judah from rejoining with Israel, thus assuring that Judah remains a low nation.
- The king of Judah intends to use the land of commerce/the city of traffic in order to get control of kings and return to the natural Jerusalem (the city which is called, spiritually, Egypt where our Lord was crucified) and possess the land which belongs to Israel (leaving the Israelites stranded among the gentiles) rather than die in Babylon as God said he would.
I think I hear the fat lady singing.
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Isaiah
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Ezekiel 17 definitely IS about the king of Babylon taking the king and princes of Jerusalem -which is made clear by the explanation given in the chapter.
HOWEVER -that example is given as a TYPE of a then-future occurance. Notice the whole chapter is 1: addressed specifically to the house of Israel -not the house of Judah (as the whole of Israel had split into the two warring houses)... and 2: a RIDDLE "and" a PARABLE (parable here meaning a metaphor -a parallel to something elseH4912מmâshâlmaw-shawl'Apparently from H4910 in some original sense of superiority in mental action; properly a pithy maxim, usually of a metaphorical nature...etc..)
Specifically -this oath parallels that which was made between Britain and the E.U. in our time..such that If Britain continues to obey Europe (at the cost of their sovereignty) they will stand -but if not -they will be base(beginning with the "Treaty of Nice"). The once huge British empire -on which the sun never set -will be a tiny isolated island at the feet of the E.U. giant.
"What does this have to do with Jerusalem and Babylon?" you might ask....
A clue is given in the same book as to where to begin to solve the riddle. Chapter 17 it says....
"Eze 17:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; A great eagle with great wings, long-winged, full of feathers, which had divers colors, came unto Lebanon, and took the HIGHEST BRANCH OF THE CEDAR:"(emphasis mine throughout)
and chapter 31....
Eze 31:3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of a high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.
The highest branch of the Assyrian empire was the last Assyrian king...Ashur-Uballit II...who reigned from 612 to 609 B.C...or...3 1/2 years.
This is what became of him (and those with him)..
Eze 17:4-5 He cropped off the top of his young twigs, and carried it into a land of traffic; he set it in a city of merchants. He took also of the seed of the land, and planted it in a fruitful field; he placed it by great waters, and set it as a willow tree.
This land of traffic/city of merchants is Haran -where this king, his princes and warriors retreated after being defeated by the Medes. It was northwest of Nineveh -Assyria's capital.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761564347_2/Assyria.html (last section)
Continuing northwest over centuries, their descendents reached the ocean -in the "fruitful field" "by great waters" we know as Germany.
This location made it possible for them to become quite strong -as it says in chapter 31....
Eze 31:4-5 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field. Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.
Not all Germans are of Assyrian descent, and some in the location of Ancient Assyria rightly claim Assyrian lineage -but those in Germany are mostly from the lines of the ruling and warring class. However, these days we do not know them as Assyrian -but Aryan (the Nazis took their lineage very seriously -they knew where they came from, and had even planned to conquer their old homeland -which was roughly where Iraq is today). Ezekiel 17:9 describes Germany's defeat in WWII -and Ezekiel 17:10 describes its final defeat in a war yet in the near future.
Another king will soon rule -also for 3 1/2 years -who will be of this bloodline -if not descended directly from Ashur-Uballit II himself...Eze 17:22-24 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also take of the highest branch of the high cedar, and will set it; I will crop off from the top of his young twigs a tender one, and will plant it upon a high mountain and eminent: In the mountain of the height of Israel will I plant it: and it shall bring forth boughs, and bear fruit, and be a goodly cedar: and under it shall dwell all fowl of every wing; in the shadow of the branches thereof shall they dwell. And all the trees of the field shall know that I the LORD have brought down the high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish: I the LORD have spoken and have done it.
He is called a king of fierce countenance in Daniel 8:23-27. He is called the prince of Tyre(Tyrus) in Ezekiel 28 (The king of Tyrus being Satan). He is called the beast in Revelation. The kingdom he will rule over is the beast which rises from abyss -also known as Babylon -the last kingdom described in King Nebuchadnezzar's (of Babylon)dream(Dan 2:43-45).
Anyway -this isn't even half of the riddle and parable -there is much more to it (such as who the two great eagles are, and how they also migrated northwest from Jerusalem -parallel to the Assyrians-but I don't want to hog page space.
The following link contains information about the relationship between Britain and the EU. I strongly recommend reading it...
http://www.kc3.co.uk/~dt/eu_army.htm
here is a short paste from it...
"THE idea of a pan-European economic and political union with its own defence force was conceived by SS officers according to documents released today to the Public Record Office in Kew. Maj Gen Ellersiek and Brig Mueller, Hitler's chief of staff during the Battle of the Bulge, came up with the idea as a means of keeping Nazism alive following the expected Allied victory in the Second World War....."The good which was in Nazism still lives in the German heart," Ellersiek said. His party offered "a new revolution for Germany which will set the pattern for Europe". This revolution is to be the work of the new elite, the German prototype of the future rulers of Europe . . . which has emerged purified from Nazism and the trials of war." (Daily Telegraph 15/2/01)"
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scythewieldor
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Dear Isaiah,
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Eze 17:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Say now to the rebellious house, Know ye not what these things mean? tell them, Behold, the king of Babylon is come to Jerusalem, and hath taken the king thereof, and the princes thereof, and led them with him to Babylon;
13 And hath taken of the king’s seed, and made a covenant with him, and hath taken an oath of him: he hath also taken the mighty of the land:
14 That the kingdom might be base, that it might not lift itself up, but that by keeping of his covenant it might stand.
15 But he rebelled against him in sending his ambassadors into Egypt, that they might give him horses and much people. Shall he prosper? shall he escape that doeth such things? or shall he break the covenant, and be delivered?
16 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely in the place where the king dwelleth that made him king, whose oath he despised, and whose covenant he brake, even with him in the midst of Babylon he shall die.
17 Neither shall Pharaoh with his mighty army and great company make for him in the war, by casting up mounts, and building forts, to cut off many persons:
18 Seeing he despised the oath by breaking the covenant, when, lo, he had given his hand, and hath done all these things, he shall not escape.
19 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely mine oath that he hath despised, and my covenant that he hath broken, even it will I recompense upon his own head.
20 And I will spread my net upon him, and he shall be taken in my snare, and I will bring him to Babylon, and will plead with him there for his trespass that he hath trespassed against me.
21 And all his fugitives with all his bands shall fall by the sword, and they that remain shall be scattered toward all winds: and ye shall know that I the LORD have spoken it.
This one seems to be about the king of Jerusalem and his seed (maybe Coniah and the sons which, God said, would never attain to the throne), the king of Babylon (which according to Is 14, may be Lucifer), and a covenant between them.
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Is 25:24 As I live, saith the LORD, though Coniah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah were the signet upon my right hand, yet would I pluck thee thence;
25 And I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand of them whose face thou fearest, even into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans.
26 And I will cast thee out, and thy mother that bare thee, into another country, where ye were not born; and there shall ye die.
27 But to the land whereunto they desire to return, thither shall they not return.
28 Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?
29 O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.
30 Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.
Joseph, the supposed father of Jesus, was descended from this man, Coniah, and, apparently, had a claim to the title, "King of Israel". Jesus, however, was born of Mary which was, apparently, the son of Heli. If Heli had no sons, according to the ruling for the daughters of Zelophehad, Jesus would be his son. (Women's names were not recorded on Jewish genealogical roles, I have heard.) Thus, Jesus was the son of David through Nathan- not Solomon.
When Joseph had his dream, I guess he felt it might be OK to pass his title to the Son of God.
By the way, the other day, you brought up the BRANCH.
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Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
This passage reminds me of something by Jeremiah.
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Jer 11:16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
This was written to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Joshua would have been, likely, descended from one of the branches of the green olive tree in which the fire was set. One of my sources says his grandaddy had been chief priest, and had been slain by Nebuchadnezzar at Riblah in the land of Hamath.
What if this man was slain because he would not take an oath that the other chief men of Jerusalem were taking? Or, maybe, Seraiah was prophesying to Nebuchadnezzar things he didn't want to hear. What if Joshua was a brand snatched from the fire by the faithfulness of his grandaddy?
What if there were other brands snatched from the fire in which the rest of the men of Judah were burning?
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Is 28:14 ¶ Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Don't get in a hurry to make any oaths. In fact,...
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Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
Jas 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
This commandment of Jesus Christ, the Lord of all, would prevent men from becoming Masons. And, in fact, we are supposed to teach the gentiles to observe this command. But, everybody wants to talk about the Rapture rather than teaching the gentiles to observe all the things whatsoever Jesus taught His disciples. Hmmm....
PUT OUT THE FIRE!!!!!!
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Isaiah
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True dat -God knows exactly where Israel is -though -technically -Jew in the modern sense refers to the house of Judah. It is not easy to mistake the house of Judah today -the original language is easily traceable -as are bloodlines -not to mention the fact that most can tell you who they are. Not so with the house of Israel -of whom these were written.....
Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 1:3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
...but there is -in Ezekiel 17 -a riddle and parable describing a parallel migration -of the remnants of the Assyrian ruling and warring class and the house of Israel -...and even of the outcomes of WWII and the next world war! It's quite a good read.
http://www.specialtyinterests.net/assyria.html
Eze 31:3
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scythewieldor
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Dear Kindgo,
James wrote to the twelve tribes as scattered. Hmmmmm.
Judah wasn't scattered abroad for some time while the New Testament was being written. Neither was Benjamin. They were still in Zion, or, at least, had full access to Zion. Remember the day of Pentecost?
However, some of the children of God were really scattered.
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John 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Judah was the first nation for which Christ Jesus died, but, according to John there were other children of God for which Christ died which were about to be gathered into another nation. As I love to point out to people, God could have no children except they be children of, either, the house of Israel or the house of Judah.
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Am 3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
When you read the words of this prophet from their beginning, it is evident that this writing was to Israel rather than Judah. In other words, Amos had written to several other nations, addressing them by name. One of those was Judah. After that, he addresses Israel by name, and the rest of the writing is to Israel.
Clearly, this writing was before God had divorced Israel as Jeremiah reports He did in his Chapter Three.
After God divorced Israel, He married Judah.
Hosea says that God told him that He would mercy have on Judah, but He would not have mercy on Israel.
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Ho 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 ¶ Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
You may recognize that passage as one to which Paul referred when he wrote the gentiles of Rome.
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Ro 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 ¶ As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Again, as I live to point out, Paul makes a point of talking about "vessels of mercy" before he reminds the reader of Hosea's writing. That is because there were two vessels of mercy mentioned by Hosea: Israel and Judah.
Then, Paul writes of "Even us, whom He hath called." "Even" means no more and no less. Then, he defines "us whom He hath called" as from Judah and from among the gentiles.
Only then does he point out God's promise to Israel in Hosea.
James, indeed, mentions the twelve scattered tribes. Maybe that writing came after 70AD. I don't know. I do know this. James knew when the rest of the tribes began to be gathered.
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Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
This word was declared on behalf of the Antiochan (gentiles which had been converted) Christians.
In other words, James was declaring the conversion of the gentiles as a fulfillment of another prophecy by Amos whose writing we have already established as being to Israel. Read that prophecy in it's context.
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Am 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.
11 ¶ In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.
As if I needed to (I know I don't), I will remind you of how the tabernacle of David had fallen.
Ten tribes were taken from the tabernacle of David and given to Jereboam, son of Nebat.
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1Ki 11:31 And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
Afterwards, God said that it was necessary to recognize this change in order to be established. (To me, that means that no one can be established in there understanding of God's plan unless they acknowledge this.)
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Isa 7:9 And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah’s son. If ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established.
From then on, to understand prophecy, a person MUST recognize Ephraim as the head of Samaria, the chief city of Israel, in order to understand what God means when He references Ephraim through the prophets. In fact, God makes it a tenet of faith by saying, "If ye will not believe".
Therefore, when Ezekiel writes "the stick of Joseph which is in the hand of Ephraim" (which he writes after Israel has been kicked out of Zion for, about, 100 years), he acknowleges that Ephraim still has the stick.
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Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
This difference between Israel and Judah, which has been recognized by so many prophets, is still recognized by Zechariah after Judah returns from Babylonian captivity.
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Zec 10:6 And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them.
7 And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD.
8 I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased.
9 And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and turn again.
10 I will bring them again also out of the land of Egypt, and gather them out of Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon; and place shall not be found for them.
11 And he shall pass through the sea with affliction, and shall smite the waves in the sea, and all the deeps of the river shall dry up: and the pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the sceptre of Egypt shall depart away.
12 And I will strengthen them in the LORD; and they shall walk up and down in his name, saith the LORD.
Now, I will show you that Israel and Judah are, still, not joined together after, even, the crucifixion and resurrection of our Saviour.
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Zec 11:10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
Both Israel and Judah had been married to God by the Old Covenant. That covenant lost all power to bind the wives when Jesus died. Judas Iscariot cast his blood money into the temple when this prophecy was fulfilled. However, Judah refused to be married to the Resurrected One. The Israelites, on the other hand (and not, even, knowing they were Israelites), were being espoused to the Lord, coming from among the gentiles.
Notice how the following passage is addressed to those who knew the law. Who would that be?
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Ro 7:1 ¶ Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Now, notice what is written to the Christians in Corinth, the place we know, from reading Acts, that Paul had turned from the Jews to the gentiles.
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2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
Espousal to the God which had been married to Judah, according to Romans 7, offered to Jews and gentiles alike.
This is the fulfillment of another prophecy to Israel.
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Ho 2:19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.
Now, - since God can not be married to two women at the same time, and
- since God had married Judah after divorcing Israel, and
- since God said He would have mercy on Judah, thereby making sure He would not divorce her, too,
in order to keep that promise to Israel, He would have to die.
He kept His promise, and has shown Himself as, truly, the Hope of Israel.
Why would I go through all this over and over, again, to convince people of the identity of Israel?
Simple. If you do not have a Biblical definition of Israel, you can not derive a Biblical expectation of the end times.
And there is so much more to show you, including the literal translation of Romans 11:25-26, and how the scriptures that follow it make much better sense when it is translated rather than interpreted.
Kindgo, thank for extending blessing to me. I return the same to you.
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Michael Harrison
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I just always thought that thousands might mean the 144 thousand, and perhaps those they influenced with their testamony, in addition.
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Kindgo
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Revelation 7:4-8 tells us exactly who they are. They are 144,000 Jews-12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. Although some have taught the tribes have been "lost" God knows where they are. As a matter of fact, long after the tribes were supposedly lost, James wrote of letter to them. "James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad, greetings." (James 1:1) These are 144,000 Jews who will be converted to Jesus after the Rapture of the Church. The apostle Paul tells us "a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and thus all Israel will be saved…" (Rom. 11:25-26). After the Rapture, the ministry of the gospel will be handed back to believing Israel, those Jewish people who receive Jesus as their Messiah just prior to the Second Coming.
Israel has never received all the land promised to them (Ex. 23:31, Numbers 34:3-12, Deut. 11:24, Joshua 1:4). However, after Jesus returns to earth and sets up His kingdom, Israel will inherit the entire promised land (Ezek. 47-48). The 144,000 will then be allotted their portions, each tribe of 12,000 receiving the land promised to them.
The Millennial Kingdom will look like this: · Jesus rules in Jerusalem from Mount Zion (Ps. 2:6-9, Zech. 14:9, 16).
· The 12 apostles sit on 12 thrones. A throne, or some kind of governmental office, will be established over each tribe.
Each apostle, in his resurrected body, will rule in that office over a tribe.
· Each tribe, which begins the Millennium with 12,000 people, will have an apostle administrating it.
· The nations on the earth will be subject to the ruling that comes from Israel. The earth will be repopulated and the families of the earth will have to go to Jerusalem each year to worship the King (Zech. 14:17).
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
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scythewieldor
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Dear Michael,
Not really. Remember "Three Day Anti-Perspirant pads"? They were called that because they lasted three days.
It's not, really, even a contextual thing. It's a usage thing.
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Isaiah
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temporal -groovy -I can deal with that ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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Michael Harrison
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In the book Theomatics, it is noted that the translation of the 144 is thousands, plural! Might that make a minor difference? I just always am reminded of this fact whenever i see the 144 mentioned>
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scythewieldor
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Dear Isaiah,
My reference to the Sixth and Seventh seals was merely to establish a temporal context for the sealing of these men.
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Isaiah
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The 144,000 are not those who escape the tribulation -but are the "remnant of her seed" spoken of here.... Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
They are servants of God IN the tribulation -being fully sealed before the "great and dreadful day of the Lord" (Joel 2)
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
-whereas those who were called and were faithful before the tribulation -the philidelphian church era (Rev 3:10) -are those who are protected in the wilderness during the reign of the beast.
They are those called "those who stand by" which God will teach -brand- by the end-time antitype of Joshua...
Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? Zec 3:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.
Zec 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
This seal is not one of the seven -but is the seal of the living God given to them before the seventh seal is loosed -which contains the seven trumpets -the seventh of which contains the seven last plagues.
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scythewieldor
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quote:
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
Re 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Rev 14:1 ¶ And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6 ¶ And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication
So many people, when I begin to speak about Israel, want me to tell them about the 144,000. Therefore, I began a search on the word, "sealed".
First, to establish context, I point out that the 144,000 were sealed between the openings of the Sixth and Seventh Seals.
According to my understanding, the seals were opened as soon as Lord Christ Jesus ascended to the Father. Therefore, the sealing of the 144,000 was at that time.
Second, to establish identity, I point out that the 144,000 were purchased from among men. The Greek word, agorazw agorazo ag-or-ad’-zo, which is rendered "redeemed" in the AV is so rendered only 3 times. It is rendered "buy" 28 times. So "purchased" is a good translation.
The relationship between the two words, "sealed" and "purchased", is found in Jeremiah.
quote:
Jer 32:6 And Jeremiah said, The word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
7 Behold, Hanameel the son of Shallum thine uncle shall come unto thee, saying, Buy thee my field that is in Anathoth: for the right of redemption is thine to buy it.
8 So Hanameel mine uncle’s son came to me in the court of the prison according to the word of the LORD, and said unto me, Buy my field, I pray thee, that is in Anathoth, which is in the country of Benjamin: for the right of inheritance is thine, and the redemption is thine; buy it for thyself. Then I knew that this was the word of the LORD.
9 And I bought the field of Hanameel my uncle’s son, that was in Anathoth, and weighed him the money, even seventeen shekels of silver.
10 And I subscribed the evidence, and sealed it, and took witnesses, and weighed him the money in the balances.
11 So I took the evidence of the purchase, both that which was sealed according to the law and custom, and that which was open:
12 And I gave the evidence of the purchase unto Baruch the son of Neriah, the son of Maaseiah, in the sight of Hanameel mine uncle’s son, and in the presence of the witnesses that subscribed the book of the purchase, before all the Jews that sat in the court of the prison.
13 And I charged Baruch before them, saying,
14 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Take these evidences, this evidence of the purchase, both which is sealed, and this evidence which is open; and put them in an earthen vessel, that they may continue many days.
15 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Houses and fields and vineyards shall be possessed again in this land.
So we have the relationship between these two words in context with the purchase of a field which would not become the possession of the buyer for many days.
This reminds us of a story by Jesus.
quote:
Mat 13:44 ¶ Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
The model that seems to be emerging is that Jesus is the man who sold all that He had to buy a field- that field being the children of the houses of Israel. However, He bought it knowing that He would not take possession of that "field" for some time.
The justification for this guess is in another of the stories of Jesus.
quote:
Lu 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Further, Jesus will not come back until the children of the house of Judah join the children of Judah's brothers in the New Covenant.
quote:
Ac 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
So, according to the things I have written showing that the gospel was taken among the gentiles in order to regather the scattered children of the house of Israel from among them, it only remains for the children of the house of Judah to join us for the Lord to return to place the 144,000, in Zion, the place which God promised to Abraham as a habitation for his seed (which we are if we are in Christ).
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