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Topic: Luke 15:1-7 99 just persons who need no repentance
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Isaiah
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Everyone who ever lived -besides the Father and Christ -is in need of repentance until they are made immortal.(Techinically, the dead, maybe -but they are not aware until resurrected)
Everyone who sins is in need of repentance.
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Christ was addressing people who did not think THEY needed repentance and were better than the sinners he ate with.....
Luk 15:1-2 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
We know from other passages that those who confess their sins are better off than those who think they are better than others.
Christ had quite a wit about him -an extreme subtlety -not to mention he could know people's thoughts. I would not exactly call the above sarcasm -but he said something without saying it -which was that he took more pleasure in the company of those sinners than theirs -as do those in heaven when a sinner sees his sins and repents (similar to when he stooped to write on the ground when the woman caught in adultery was about to be stoned -which was quite right in the law [judgments] written in the old testament.... essentially saying that he had the authority to write the LAWS -the ten commandments in stone -and by the same authority he gave to Moses and was now changing this JUDGMENT -as it were -written in sand [Hence the saying 'written in stone'].
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Eden
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Hi, lonlesol. "imputed" means "accounted to my side of the ledger". When someone believes that Jesus is the Son of God and keeps on believing that and acting upon it, then the wisdom and righteousness that Jesus had, will be "imputed onto us" or "counted in our ledger as if we had it too".
And then, at our glorification, we actually receive the same kind of wisdom and the same kind of righteousness as Jesus had when Jesus was in Israel right after His resurrection.
We cannot manufacture or create that kind of wisdom and righteousness because we are too filthy, our righteousness is by comparison to Jesus as filthy rags.
So in exchange for believing God that Jesus is the Son of God, God will give the believer or imputes to the believer that wisdom and righteousness for free, at our glorification.
In the meantime, while we yet live as saved sinners on earth, we also have access to the Holy Spirit and our spirit can now receive counsel and even dictation from the Holy Spirit so that we can become wiser than we were and more righteousness than we were, we can "move from glory to glory", but what the Holy Spirit can be done with this sinful Adamic body is limited in termws of giving it wisdom and more righteousness.
Those two, wisdom and righteousness, will be IMPUTED to us BECAUSE we believed God about "everything Jesus Christ".
1 Corinthians 1
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
23 But we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumblingblock, and to the Greeks foolishness;
29 So that no flesh should glory in His presence.
30 But of Him are you in Christ Jesus who of God is made unto us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption.
These things must all be given to us who believe:
1 Corinthians 1
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE THEM WHO BELIEVE.
It pleased God. Sometimes I think that it does not please US that God is saving people for JUST BELIEVING. But I would not be surprised if we find out that God was and is a lot more generous than even WE dared imagine when it comes to saving someone:
Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
eden
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lonlesol
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This "faith in Christ" is not just the decision of a minute, but a faith or a trust in God for every second of every day, the life lived every second of the day in Christ!... and for this, Paul says that "whatever does not proceed from faith is sin" (Rom.14:23)... and he who dies in sin goes to Hell...
''You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.''...James 2:19
Just to believe that Jesus is God is not enough as the Devil believes and his fallen angels also agree, but they are not saved.
Be blessed...
Lonlesol.
Posts: 478 | From: Quebec | Registered: Mar 2005
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lonlesol
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quote:
quote:
But simply knowing that Jesus is God is not enough to save you.
If what you say is true, then what of these?......
It isn't enough in the sense that you also need to repent...if someone keeps on sinning after saying that he believes that Jesus is the Son of God, then he isn't truly born again of the Water and Spirit, and Jesus is not in him...
I wish I had enough time on my hands to talk about this more deeply right now but I need to leave for work in a few minutes...I will talk to you later... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
ps: I am a French speaking person...therefore, there are some terms in English that I might not fully understand what they mean.......for instance, ''imputed onto''...sorry about that... ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posts: 478 | From: Quebec | Registered: Mar 2005
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Eden
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Hi, lonlesol, you said quote:
But simply knowing that Jesus is God is not enough to save you.
If what you say is true, then what of these?
John 1:34
And I saw and bore record that this is the Son of God.
Acts 8:37
And Philip said, If you {the eunuch} believe with all your heart, you may {be baptized}. And he {the eunuch} answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 9:20
And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues that He is the Son of God.
Now listen to this, lonlesol, this one blew me away:
1 John 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwells in him, and he in God.
1 John 5:5
And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
lonlesol, let me repeat what you said: quote:
But simply knowing that Jesus is God is not enough to save you.
Do you still believe that after seeing the verses above?
lonlesol, you also said quote:
Many who only name Jesus Christ as their Savior will be damned because they are trusting in their own personal good works for their righteousness instead of trusting in the righteousness of Jesus Christ alone.
But the criteria set forth above in the Son of God verses seem to only be that one has to believe that Jesus was and is the Son of God. The eunuch said nothing else. The eunuch did not say, "But I still trust in my own righteousness still".
I'm not sure that someone can "still believe in his own righteousness" and still think that "Jesus is the Son of God", because when the Lord Jesus sees that someone puts faith that Jesus is indeed the Son of God, then GOD IMPUTES the righteousness OF JESUS to the account of ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD.
When, like Abraham, we BELIEVE GOD that Jesus is the Son of God, then God IMPUTES, ACCOUNTS the RIGHTEOUSNES of Jesus UNTO OUR ACCOUNT FOR FREE, just for BELIEVING THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD.
Or that's what I read anyway:
1 John 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwells in him, and he in God.
1 John 5:5
And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
So accordingly there is NO SUCH THING as a person believing that Jesus is God and then NOT BEING IMPUTED FREELY by God with the righteousness of Jesus, to our account, as if WE died righteous.
Just as God imputed righteousness to Abraham for believing God:
Romans 4:11
And he {Abraham} received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that [b]righteousness might be imputed unto them also.
Romans 4:22
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Romans 4:23
Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Romans 4:24
But for us also to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.
James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham believed God and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
And lastly, that is why it says:
1 Corinthians 1:30
But of Him are you in Christ Jesus, [b]who of God [b]is made unto us wisdom and righteousness, and sanctification and redemption.
It's all imputed to us if we believe that Jesus is the Son of God, isn't that so?
eden
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lonlesol
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How can anyone have righteousness of their own, without Jesus?...No one, it is impossible, there are too many unrighteous acts that are unfortunately too easy to fall into...
For instance, I may have never murdered anyone but I admit that have hated some...it is considered as bad a murder...
The Scriptures show that unrighteous acts include:
greediness
envy
murder
arguing
deceitfulness
having bad manners (being rude)
gossiping
slandering
not believing in God (atheism)
insolence
pride
bragging
being responsible for any badness
being disobedient to one’s parents
refusing to be reasonable
not honoring agreements
not loving your family (gr. astorge)
not being merciful
being sexually immoral
worshiping idols
committing adultery
practicing homosexuality
thievery
drunkenness
insulting
extorting
being an angry person.
The wide gate to hell is the religion of self-righteousness. There is only one God who can save us from hell - His name is Jesus Christ. There is no other God beside Him. But simply knowing that Jesus is God is not enough to save you. Many who only name Jesus Christ as their Savior will be damned because they are trusting in their own personal good works for their righteousness instead of trusting in the righteousness of Jesus Christ alone.
Many people think that their good works can get them into heaven. ..."and in thy name done many wonderful works?" People who think they are good will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Self-righteousness is deadly! On judgement day there will be many who thought they were going to heaven because of their good works, but Christ will only say "depart from me". Matthew 7:22,23
True believers know they only appear righteous in God's eyes because they are covered by the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
"he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness"
Isaiah 61:10
True believers believe God when He says No one, not even ONE is righteous without being clothed by the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one"
Romans 3:10
True believers know that their own works are just filthy rags in the sight of God.
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags" Isaiah 64:6
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Eden
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So lonlesol, you are saying that the righteousness of Jesus is IMPUTED ONTO the 100 and not that they have righteousness of their own, right?
eden
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Eden
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Yes, lonlesol, I see what you mean. All 100 sheep are already the Lord's because they represent 100 people who have put faith in Jesus. Then one strays back into the world and Jesus goes after him and gets him so that the lost sheep willingly lays on Jesus's shoulder and the angels of God rejoice with Jesus that this one sinner has repented again.
Because clearly in the Bible the symbol "sheep" in parables of Jesus refer to bornagain Christians so these have to be 100 Christians or 100 believers in Jesus, one of whom strayed again. That is what the kingdom of heaven is like?
So let's see if your interpretation fit the parable:
Luke 15
1 Then drew near to Him all the publicans and sinners to hear Him.
2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receives sinners and eats with them.
3 And He spoke this parable to them, saying,
4 What man of you, having a 100 sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the 99 sheep in the wilderness and go after that which is lost, until he finds it?
5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
7 And I say to you that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner who repents, more than over 99 just persons who need no repentance.
So that seems to fit, I think.
And BTW, when Jesus left the 99 sheep that were with Him in the wilderness IN THE CARE OF OTHERS, there are ALWAYS servants helping to take care of the sheep, like leaving us in the care of the angels and with the Father YHWH: "Dad, can you look after these 99 sheep while I go try to find the one that is lost?"
eden
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lonlesol
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99 just persons who need no repentance?
''I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.''...Luke 15:7
The Parable of the Lost Sheep
The three parables of Luke 15 are introduced by verses 1-3. There we see the Pharisees and scribes complaining that our Lord Jesus "receives sinners and eats with them" (v 2). They are scandalized by the fact that He accepts them into table fellowship with Himself. This no self-respecting Pharisee would condescend to do. In response to their criticism, Jesus proceeds to tell these stories, beginning with the Parable of the Lost Sheep.
It is clear on the face of this story that the shepherd of this parable owns all one hundred sheep. This is plain in the words, "What man of you, having a hundred sheep" (v 4) and from the words "my sheep" in verse 6. As was frequent in Palestine, especially in the southern region called the Negeb (= "the dry"), this shepherd was grazing his flock in territory described as "the wilderness." This sparsely inhabited region contained sufficient vegetation to sustain sheep as their shepherd led them from grazing place to grazing place. Thus, in the parable, the shepherd is feeding his sheep when he notices that one of them has wandered away from his flock.
Upon making this discovery, he leaves the ninety-nine "in the wilderness" in order to "go after the one which is lost" (v 4). From the perspective of a Middle Eastern shepherd, this can hardly mean anything other than that he felt the flock was reasonably safe and would stay together.
After recovering the lost sheep, he places it lovingly "on his shoulders" (v 5) and brings it back to the flock. When the day's grazing is over and "he comes home" (v 6), he has a party to which he invites "his friends and neighbors" (v 6) so they can share his joy in having "found my sheep which was lost" (v 6). That this "party" parallels the celebrations staged in the next two parables, goes without saying.
Our Lord's application of this story is crystal clear: "I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just [Greek, dikaios = righteous] persons who need no repentance" (v 7; italics added). The words which we have placed in italics are the key to this parable. The ninety-nine sheep represent people who are "righteous" and who therefore do not need to repent. This is what the text plainly states.
But this is not how it is interpreted by many who read and/or teach it. Instead, the "ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance" are transformed into "ninety-nine unrighteous persons who only think they need no repentance! That this manifestly contradicts the text and turns it upside down is so clear that this rereading of our Lord's words is self-refuting.
Plainly stated, the Parable of the Lost Sheep is not about eternal salvation at all. It is about a Christian who wanders away from God's flock and pursues the pathway of sin. His restoration to fellowship with his Savior and Shepherd, as well as to fellowship with the Lord's people, who have not wandered away, requires repentance. When such a recovery of a straying believer occurs, the Great Shepherd is filled with joy and heaven itself rejoices with Him. And so, of course, should God's people as well (a point to be addressed in the story about the brother of the Prodigal Son: Luke 15:25-32).
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Eden
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Luke 15
1 Then drew near to Him all the publicans and sinners to hear Him.
2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receives sinners and eats with them.
3 And He spoke this parable to them, saying,
4 What man of you, having a 100 sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the 99 sheep in the wilderness and go after that which is lost, until he finds it?
5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
7 And I say to you that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner who repents, more than over 99 just persons who need no repentance.
Who was Jesus referring to or thinking of when He spoke of 99 just persons who need no repentance?
thanks, eden
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