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Author Topic: carnal but still brethren
Eden
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Bro. David, it seems to me from 1 Corinthians 1-3 that Paul believed in "easy believism" as you call it.

Paul plainly said that most Corinthian believers were carnal who were only drinking spiritual milk, but yet Paul never hesitated to call them brethren, and Paul only uses that word "brethren" for Christians in the Bible.

So it appears that sinners who only drink spiritual milk were still considered Christians by Paul. He still called them "brethren" and he still called them "the church of God at Corinth" and never does Paul imply that because they were carnal they were now unsaved heathen.

I do think that it is possible that God is much more generous and loving toward sinners than His own saved human beings are.

Romans 5:8
But God commends His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If someone wants to call that love "easy believism", then please go ahead.

crucified on the crosss with Christ and raised with new life from Christ, I am,
Eden

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Good NewsforAll
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Salvation isn't so complicated as man seems to be making it. Jesus never complicated salvation. How many times did he heal someone and then immediately after say, "Go and sin no more." Just that simple. We should give the Holy Spirit more credit. After I became born again the Holy Spirit clung fast to my heart, and never let it go. I haven't been perfect, but I always have no choice but to come back and focus once again on the straight and narrow.

I checked many of the scriptures you quoted David, and they are addressing those who haven't even made a decision to follow Christ.

I have heard much hearsay about Rick Warren and sometimes found it very confusing, listening to all of the innuendos from every direction, so I made it my business to find out what his message really is. Found a video where he expresses very clearly the importance of being born again, and stressed that we don't get into heaven by good works only. In other words, he says that we don't earn our way to heaven.

We said that all have sinned and we have to have a personal relationship, taking more than just sincerity.

More thoughts -
Firstly, we have to admit that we are sinners and confess that sin.
We have to believe that Jesus died for our sins. and confess with our mouths.
We have to invite Jesus into our hearts and make him Lord of our life.

Most of the evangelists I hear, have this same message. It really upsets me that many get caught up in listening to what others have to say about these teachers.

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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"


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KnowHim
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Sure sounds like you are promoting Easy Believism here to me.

Nothing has any power to alter a man save the incoming of the life of Jesus, and that is the only sign that he is born again. - Chambers, O

My bible states the following:

1 John 2:3-6 (NIV)
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 2 Timothy 4:3 (KJV)

And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. ~ Luke 9:62

Matthew 10:33
But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

2 Chr 16:9 For the eyes of the LORD range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him.

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Galatians 6:7
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

Galatians 6:8
The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13 (KJV)

Hebrews 11:6 (NKJV)
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Psalm 2:11 (KJV)
Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

Since you call on a Father who judges each man's work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear. 1 Peter 1:17 (NIV)


If someone suggests that if you say a prayer you will be saved, then they will answer to God for that. There is no push button thing you can do for salvation. The bible says we MUST be born-again. That is a process and if you are born-again your life will change and you will put Jesus Christ first in your life. Not just know about Him or think you purchased a ticket to heaven and you have it somewhere in a drawer.

To even think that a few words that take less than a moment will secure our souls forever is pure deception. Please do not be deceived. You will not enter the Kingdom of God on a few words that you spoke one time in your life. Praying a prayer is not a quick simple fix. Jesus says to us that we must deny ourselves, forsake all, and take up our cross daily (Luke 9:23-26; 14:33). These are things that we will want do daily until the day we die. We are to walk and live by faith and endure until the very end (Matt. 10.22). If you are saved you will love and put Jesus first in your life. That is how you know if you are born-again. Your life changes it focus and it then become about knowing Jesus.

"Easy Believism" is the idea that having a mental belief in Jesus Christ is the same as obtaining salvation. In other words, this false doctrine teaches that people only need to believe correct doctrines about Jesus or salvation rather than actually trusting Jesus Christ Himself for salvation. The Bible refutes this heretical false teaching, noting that the "devils also believe and tremble". (James 2:19)

Easy-Believism is related to such terms as “Decisionism", "Easy Prayerism" and “Salvation by Works”. The heresy of Easy Believism is popularized today by such men as Rick Warren. Various "evangelists" often like to propagate this heresy, since it is easier to get people to believe some basic Bible facts than it is to get them to actually trust the real Jesus for their salvation. Such evangelists can then "count lots of numbers" of those sheep (i.e. goats) who have assented to certain mental beliefs. This helps such "hirelings" to "prop up" the "numbers" of people "saved" during their evangelistic meetings.

Many pastors also like to promote this heresy as well, since it helps them to avoid having to think about the need to actually get their people truly converted. With Easy-Believism, they only need to get their people to mentally assent to ("believe") a few Bible facts. Very often, pastors who promote this false doctrine are lost men themselves, which helps to explain why they would be willing to promote such a demonic soul-damming false doctrine.

Of course, it is both right and indeed quite easy to trust Jesus. Nevertheless, only having a mental belief in Jesus is not the same as actually trusting Jesus. When men and women "believe and tremble" but do not actually trust Jesus Christ Himself alone for their salvation, they remain lost in their sins. They remain Satan's "goats" instead of Christ's "sheep", on the road to Hell and not on the way to Heaven. Too many people have had such a mental belief in certain Bible facts, but have never actually trusted Jesus. Jesus is up in Heaven right now desiring that men and women should trust Him for their salvation.

The wide-spread teaching of this false doctrine of "Easy Believism" is a major cause for much of the "lukewarmness" we see in so many churches during this current Laodicean church age, since most church members in today's typical churches have only had a mental belief in Jesus and/or Bible doctrines. They are therefore still lost men and women on the road down to an eternity in Hell. Lost men and women do not love Jesus. Churches filled with such "goats" are therefore generally "lukewarm" and not "hot" for Jesus and the Bible.

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Eden
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I'm so happy that God kept the carnal Christians of Corinth as brethren who were drinking spiritual milk in the church of Corinth.

And I am so thankful that spiritual milk is sufficient to keep people saved in the church.

Does God have a more accepting standard for saving sinners than humans do?

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Do we bornagain Christian human sinners saved by grace have the same standard of salvation as the Lord has?

Or do we require more from sinners than the God of Israel and the Lord Jesus require from sinners for their salvation?

with Christ's love through redemption by Jesus,
Eden

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Eden
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The other day I had a chance to start reading Will Durant’s The Story of Civilization, or to start reading 1 Corinthians in my Bible. I chose to read the Bible that time and right off the bat I read in 1 Corinthians 1:

1 Corinthians 1:2-4
2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

3 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ.

Eden here:

Paul right off the bat says that the church of God at Corinth is a church and Paul says they are sanctified and they have grace from the Father and from the Lord Jesus.

But later in 1 Corinthians 3 addresses this SAME church as being CARNAL Christians:

1 Corinthians 3:1-2
1 And I, brethren, could not speak you as unto spiritual {men}, but as unto carnal [men}, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for until now you were not able to bear it, and neither are you now able to bear it.

But when we read 1 Corinthians 3:1-2, let us not lose sight of what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1:2-4:

1 Corinthians 1

2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to them who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours.

3 Grace be to you and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ.

Carnal, but brethren with the grace from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

With love in Christ,
Eden

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