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Topic: Our spirit is quickened AND the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in that new spirit
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Thunderz7
Advanced Member
Member # 31
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posted
Good topic,
good points and questions by all.
Eden,
Another question - "uncreated life" & "almost dead spirit" are terms I am not familiar with.
Somewhat disturbing, need some help here. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi Eden,
You stated that the spirit prepares ones heart to believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior. My question pertaining to this statement is ...do we then blame God for unbelief? With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Eden
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Hi, becauseHElives. You said:
“True but the old man of sin is still present ever warring against this new nature that has been birthed by the Spirit of Yahweh. This warfare never ends till this mortality puts on immortality.”
Eden here: True.
You then said:
“The Holy Spirit can be grieved and will depart.”
Eden here: And then you quoted all OLD TESTAMENT verses to support the idea that the Holy Spirit be grieved and then will depart.
Isaiah 63:10 (Old Testament)
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
Psalm 51:11 (Old Testament)
Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
Psalm 78:40 (Old Testament)
How often they rebelled against Him in the wilderness And grieved Him in the desert!
Psalm 106:33 (Old Testament)
Because they were rebellious against His Spirit, He spoke rashly with his lips.
Isaiah 63:11 (Old Testament)
Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses. Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them,
Acts 7:51 (New Testament)
"You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
Ephesians 4:30 (New Testament)
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Dear brother becauseHElives, does the Bible not say that when the New Testament or New Covenant came in, the Old Testament or Old Covenant passed away?
Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Hebrews 8:7
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Hebrews 8:9
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hebrews 8:13
In that He says, A new covenant, He has made the first old. Now that which decayes and waxes old is ready to vanish away.
Eden here:
Brother becauseHElives, you only mentioned TWO New Testament verses:
Acts 7:51 (New Testament)
"You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
Eden here:
Who said Acts 7:51? Stephen said it to the Sandrehim unbelievers, and not to Christians:
Acts 6
15 And all that sat in the council, looking stedfastly on him {on Stephen}, and saw his face as if it had been the face of an angel.
Acts 7
1Then said the high priest, Are these things so?
2 And he {Stephen} said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
Eden here: Stephen was still going at it by verse 51 which you quoted, becauseHElives:
Acts 7
51 You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do you.
becauseHElives, since this is being said to Unbelievers on the Sanhedrim, it cannot be used against Christians to whom God has only said, “Do not grieve the Holy Spirit”, but NOWHERE is it said thus far that the Holy Spirit DEPARTS if grieved, and I would be honored if you could lead me to that verse.
becauseHElives, you also quoted a second New Testament verses:
Ephesians 4:30 (New Testament)
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Dear brother becauseHElives, where in those two verses do you see the Holy Spirit also departing? Grieved? Yes, but Departing, where does God say that?
Now here is an interesting question. Assuming that the Holy Spirit quickens my about-to-go-out-like-smoking-flax spirit, then I have a new spirit. Because, presumably, the Holy Spirit does not want to live in a delapidated “smoking” temple but the Holy Spirit wants to live in a glorious temple.
So the Holy Spirit fixes His temple up, fixes His Room up, so to speak. Then the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in it, according to the Scriptures.
The question I have is, If the Holy Spirit were to depart, would the new spirit fall back into a fallow condition over time, like it took those great ages of the patriarchs to lose the glory of the garden of Eden entirely, if our spirit is renewed at the new birth, which is believing in the heart that Jesus died in my place, how long will it take for such a renewed spirit to deteriorate again if a Christian stops believing that Jesus died in his place?
40 years and the new spirit would be corrupt again?
100 years and the new spirit would be corrupt again?
The new spirit would instantly be corrupt again the moment the Holy Spirit departed?
Or how does that work in your opinion, becauseHElives?
Love, Eden
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becauseHElives
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quote:
Our spirit is quickened AND the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in that new spirit
True but the old man of sin is still present ever warring against this new nature that has been birthed by the Spirit of Yahweh.
This warfare never ends till this mortality puts on immortality.
The Holy Spirit can be grieved and will depart.
Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
Psalm 51:11 Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
Psalm 78:40 How often they rebelled against Him in the wilderness And grieved Him in the desert!
Psalm 106:33 Because they were rebellious against His Spirit, He spoke rashly with his lips.
Isaiah 63:11 Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses. Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them,
Acts 7:51 "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
Ephesians 4:30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
III. The consequences of grieving the Holy Spirit.
1. One of the consequences of grieving the Holy Spirit is to be abandoned by him. If you continue to grieve the Holy Spirit you may expect him to abandon you forever. God's Spirit will not always strive with man. He gave up the Israelites because they vexed and grieved his Spirit. He abandoned the old world for the same reason. And many individuals, and families, and nations, in every age of the world have been given up because they grieved the Holy Spirit.
2. Spiritual blindness. This follows as a matter of course from the absence of the Spirit's influences. Men are naturally blind and deaf to all the great truths which should sanctify their souls. Not that you have not naturally eyes and ears with which to see and hear were you well disposed, but "having eyes you see not, and ears, you hear not." And being unwilling to retain God in your knowledge you blind your own eyes, and deafen your own ears, and harden your own hearts. And when once the Spirit of God has given you up, your blindness though voluntary is as certain and eternal as your existence.
3. A conscience seared as with a hot iron is another effect of grieving the Spirit. This will naturally follow from your great spiritual blindness. A silent or seared conscience is a state of mind to be infinitely dreaded. For if its voice be silenced you may go on in security crying peace and safety until sudden destruction cometh upon you. It is an unspeakable blessing to have a quick and tender conscience--one that will enforce the slightest obligation with great power. But you should by all means, as you would the murder of your own soul, avoid that which will silence your conscience and hush its warning voice.
4. If God abandon you, you will become the confirmed and complete slave of that sin, whatever it be, on account of which he has given you up. If it be some vile indulgence in some form of intemperance--the love of money--the love of pleasure--passion under any form--or infidelity or error--in short whatever sin has been persevered in until God has given you up or the Holy Spirit departed from you, that sin has become your master. It will chain you like a slave, and rule over you with a rod of iron. It will impose on you its galling yoke until you shall be filled with your own ways. How many cases of this kind have come under my own observation, where persons have tempted God by indulging in some form of sin, until he has given them up to its reigning power; and then how feeble are all their efforts to overcome it. Their resolutions are as yielding as air. Every breath of temptation carries them away. And finding themselves all weakness and swept away by temptation as with a flood, they throw up the reins, and drive furiously to destruction.
5. If the Holy Spirit abandon you, you may expect God to "send strong delusions upon you that you may believe a lie, that you may be damned because you obey not the truth but have pleasure in unrighteousness." It is said that an "evil spirit from the Lord troubled Saul," and that a "lying spirit" was suffered by the Lord to deceive Ahab to his own destruction. A man who grieves the Holy Spirit--who is hiding away from the light, receives not the truth, but has pleasure in some form of unrighteousness. It is remarkable to see in how many ways the providences of God will help a man, in this state, forward to some fatal delusion. Infidel books or lecturers--universalist ministers or publications--wicked companions and associates--and often times the prince of hell, is suffered to delude and lead such a soul into impenetrable darkness, and destructive delusion.
6. Self-disgrace may be and often is a consequence of being abandoned by the Holy Spirit. It is remarkable to see when an individual has grieved the Holy Spirit, how blind he is in regard to the light in which his conduct is and will be viewed by those around him. If this be your case you will probably go from step to step, beginning perhaps with indulgence in levity--next you will discover an irritable spirit, and show that you have no command of your temper--then a spirit of worldly-mindedness may develop itself--next a spirit of licentiousness may be plainly discerned by those around you--then some form of intemperance may get the mastery of you--then a spirit of exaggeration and perhaps of lying may take possession of your soul--and thus in the midst of your blindness wander on until you find yourself deeply disgraced in the eyes of men, and forever lost in the eye of God.
7. You may be left to inflict the deepest disgrace on your family and friends and perhaps ruin many over whom you have influence. "A little leaven leaventh the whole lump." Men naturally have great influence over each other, and with great facility do "evil communications corrupt good manners," because wicked example so falls in with the corrupt state of the human heart. It is exceedingly easy to influence individuals to sin, because they are already so inclined to sin. A slight amount of temptation therefore may lead those around you to follow your example, until all together, at last you sink to the depths of hell.
8. If you are a professor of religion, and the Holy Spirit leave you, you will of course greatly wound and dishonor Christ.
9. You may be given up to Satan "to be led captive at his will." I have already adverted to the case of Saul and Ahab as being given up to Satan for their wickedness. Paul speaks of having delivered a certain man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, and it doubtless often occurs when the Spirit of God has left a man, that Satan takes full possession of his heart. Christ seems to teach this in the following language. "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and finding none. Then he saith, I will return into my house whence I came out and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first." Now here it is plainly taught by Christ himself that when the Holy Spirit has left a man, his heart is like a room swept and garnished waiting to entertain the devil, and that he may be expected to take possession, to exert over him at least sevenfold more influence than ever before.
10. If the Holy Spirit leave you, you may expect to become very insensible and blind in regard to the state of your own soul. You may be left to think that you are engaged in religion, and mistake the silence of your conscience for the peace of God, and the absence of all concern about your soul for a good hope through grace. It doubtless has often occurred and I think I have myself seen cases, where persons seem to have the most undoubting assurance of mind that they were in a gracious state, when their temper and conduct manifest any thing else than the [S]spirit of Christ. Christ himself represents some as being in such a state of delusion as to carry their false hopes and delusions to the very bar of God. He represents them as saying, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?" But hear his answer. "Then will I profess unto them, I never knew you. Depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
11. If the Spirit leave you, you will have no heart to offer prevailing prayer, and if you attempt to pray, you will find that your mouth is shut, and if opened it will only be opened to mock God. And you will find as a matter of fact, that instead of being benefited you are only hardened by engaging in prayer.
12. You will wax worse, and worse if abandoned of God. This may be true of you and still you not observe it, and yet if you will be honest with yourselves, if any of you have grieved the Holy Spirit away, by comparing your recent with your former experience, you may see that you are waxing worse and worse.
13. If the Spirit leave you, your damnation is certain, God has said. "Woe unto them when I depart from them." If left to yourself, remember that you are as certain of being lost as if you had already been a thousand years in hell.
14. If the Spirit abandon you, all things will work together for your destruction. The very means that should make you better will make you worse. The efforts that God makes to save those around you will only confirm you in your sins. In short all God's providences, with all the influences of his grace which surround you will be but so many stumbling blocks to your poor blinded soul. The Sabbath with its cheerful light and solemn stillness, will rise upon you but to harden your heart. "The sound of the Church-going bell,"--the voice of the living preacher--the song of praise--everything in the sanctuary--every thing within and without yourself, will conspire to work out for you an exceeding great and eternal weight of damnation.
REMARKS.
1. To grieve the Holy Spirit is great presumption. You are in danger every moment you persist in it of being given up forever. Remember there is a point, beyond which forbearance in God would not be a virtue. Long suffering as he is, he will bear with you no longer than is consistent with the public good. When the children of Israel had repeatedly grieved the Holy Spirit in the wilderness until they came upon the borders of the promised land, and were commanded to go up and take possession, through unbelief they began to murmur, and went not up. This one instance of rebellion, added to those that preceded it, was too much for divine forbearance. And God is represented as lifting up his hand and taking a solemn oath "that they should not enter into his rest." Now take heed therefore lest you sin once too much. Are you not convinced from what I have already said that you have often grieved the Holy Spirit? Have you not often done it in many of the ways I have mentioned as well as in innumerable ways I have not mentioned? And now dare you do it again? If you do it may be found to be true that you have grieved the Spirit once too much to be forgiven.
2. From this subject you can see the great forbearance of God. How many of you have grieved the Holy Spirit for days, and for months, and perhaps for years! How wonderful that God should spare you. He sent his ministers--his written word--his providences, and to no effect. Finally he came himself by his own Spirit, and has been abused by you in a thousand ways. And even now perhaps you are indulging some sin that grieves him almost beyond endurance. If you persist you do it at the peril of your soul.
3. You see how to account for the blindness of great multitudes of professors of religion. Many of you can see how to account for your own hardness and blindness of mind, both you who are in and you who are out of the Church.
4. You see why so many persons often pray for the influences of the Holy Spirit and yet do not receive his influences. It may be and doubtless often is because they have grieved him entirely away.
5. Again it may be, and doubtless often is true that many pray for the Holy Spirit who are continually grieving him by the indulgence of some lust or by the neglect of some duty, or in some way doing that or indulging that which is so offensive to the Holy Spirit that he will not abide with them.
6. You can see from this subject, that the Holy Spirit when he comes to many is like the "wayfaring man, that tarrieth but for a night." His visits are short and far between. The fact is their lives, and tempers, and habits are such, that for them to dwell with God or he with them is out of the question.
7. Many ministers seem to have grieved him away. Their ministry seems to be entirely barren. They preach, and pray, and perform other duties without unction, and of course without success. And while they continue their round of efforts, it is plain to the spiritual members of their church that they have not the Holy Spirit. Their conversation during the week is not in heaven. Their preaching on the Sabbath has in it any thing but the spirit, power and demonstration of the Gospel.
Sometimes they seem to be sensible that they have grieved the Spirit. Some years since, a young man who had been several years in the ministry came to me for advice, saying that he had grieved the Holy Spirit when studying Theology, since which time he had never enjoyed his presence, consequently his ministry was barren. His soul was shut out from God, and he felt that he must abandon the ministry, as God had rejected him in consequence of his sin. A christian brother, some months since, related to me another fact, worthy of all consideration by ministers of the gospel. An elderly minister made this confession in a revival of religion, into the midst of which he was providentially brought. Said he, "When I was young and for years after I entered the ministry, the Spirit of God was with me. A divine unction attended my preaching. I was instrumental in promoting several revivals of religion. But finally on account of pecuniary considerations I was led to change my field of labor. For this the Spirit departed from me. After this my ministry was barren and my soul was as the barren heath. The heavens became brass over my head, and the earth iron under my feet. Thus many years have passed over me. Still the Spirit of the Lord has not returned."
8. This subject will enable us to account for the present state of so great a number of the professed ministers of Christ. The barrenness of their ministry--the worldliness of their spirit--their bitterness, and jangling, and prejudice, and every thing that so much wounds and disgraces Christ.
9. Let us all take warning lest any of us while we think we are standing, should suddenly and hopelessly fall. Beloved, let us walk softly before the Lord, and look narrowly into all our ways. Let us see wherein we have been and are grieving the Holy Spirit.
And now let us all go down upon our knees, and confess our infinite guilt, in having, in so many ways and for so long a time, grieved the Holy Spirit, "whereby we are sealed unto the day of redemption."
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
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When regenerated, man’s spirit is made alive through the incoming of God’s life. The Holy Spirit does this task. He prepares human hearts to believe in the Lord Jesus as Savior.
The work of the cross has been fulfilled by the Lord Jesus, but it is left to the Holy Spirit to apply this finished work to the sinner’s heart.
The cross accomplishes all, but the Holy Spirit administers to man what has been accomplished by the cross. The cross grants us position; the Holy Spirit gives us experience of that position.
The task of the Holy Spirit is to reveal to sinners what the cross has created and achieved so that they may in fact receive it and be saved.
The Holy Spirit cannot function independently of what the cross has achieved: without the cross the Holy Spirit has no proper ground from which to operate.
While it is the cross which achieves the whole work of salvation it is the Holy Spirit Who operates directly upon men for their salvation.
Hence the Bible characterizes our regeneration as a work of the Holy Spirit: “that which is born of the Spirit is spirit” (John 3.6).
Our spirits were near unto death before being quickened again by the Holy Spirit:
Matthew 12:20
A bruised reed shall He not break, and smoking flax shall He not quench, till He send forth judgment unto victory.
The Lord Jesus explains further on that regenerated man is “everyone who is born of the Spirit” (v.8). Believers are born anew because the Holy Spirit communicates God’s uncreated life to their almost dead spirit. We again "live by the Spirit” (Gal. 5.25).
If whatever men know comes through their brain without a regenerated spirit, their knowledge will help them a whit. If their belief and idea rests in man’s wisdom and not in God’s power through the spirit, they are merely excited in their soul. That will not last long if they are not yet born anew.
Besides bestowing life to believers at new birth, the Holy Spirit also executes an "abiding" work in them:
Ezekiel 36:26-27
“A new heart I will give you and a new spirit I will put within you ... and I will put my Spirit within you”. Note that two things happen here. Man's spirit which was about to die out is quickened by the incoming of of God's uncreated Life into our spirit when we believe.
But then mmediately after the clause “a new spirit will I put within you”, there follows this phrase of “I will put my Spirit within you.”
The first statement shows that believers will shall receive a new or quickened spirit through the renewal of their deadened spirit by the incoming of Life.
The second statement refers to the indwelling or abiding of the Holy Spirit in that renewed spirit.
Believers at new birth not only obtain a new spirit but also the Holy Spirit begins to dwell in this renewed spirit.
The Holy Spirit is not just visiting them, but comes and stays in their renewed spirit at the moment they are saved.
The Apostle Paul exhorts us on this wise: “Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption” (Eph. 4.30).
Note the use of the word “grieve” and not “anger” or not "is given cause to depart", revealing the Holy Spirit’s love.
“Grieve”, it says and not “give cause to depart,” for “He dwells with you and will be in you” (John 14.17).
While every born-again believer does have the Holy Spirit residing in him, nevertheless the plight of the indwelling Spirit's relationship with the individual soul is not the same in all saints—He may be either grieved or gladdened; but He will not be angry or depart.
with love,
Eden
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