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Author
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Topic: Salvation
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
Hi Fran. Please forgive me. My comment was not that your words were like that of a serpent, but that this is how the serpent works.. sometimes we say the most of innocent of things and do not realize that in them is a subtle lie.
Here is a common one today... "Just ask Jesus into your heart and you will be saved." That sounds so sweet... Yes, Jesus come into my heart! But that is not what the Bible teaches. We see Christians struggling because they have asked Jesus into their hearts and they expect him to be there while they live their same ole miserable sinner's life. But the truth is that God calls us to be reconcilled to HIS life... to repent of our sins and believe on the Risen Lord to be the propitiation of our sin and thus being forgive we can now come into the Life of God that is a HOLY life. Follow ME says Jesus... there is a far difference from our repenting of sin and following him in obedience to the Father and Him coming into our miserable sin filled lives and taking up residence in our hearts.
The enemy uses our innocence, just as he used eve's innocence. I saw your quote as innocence that the enemy has already perverted in the lives of far too many.
When we are born again, HIS word... HIS law is written in our hearts and HIS Spirit indwells our being not just our hearts.. but our mind body and soul and we are reconcilled to the LIFE of GOD. Jesus does not reconcile God to our mortal life. Jesus reconciles us to GOD's eternal Life.
Do you see how subtle the enemy is?
You ever hear someone say something like... "I know Joe called his wife a horrible curse word, but he really does have a good heart.. he just loses his temper.
Sounds sweet and understanding.. sounds like it could be so. But the Bible says out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks. When Joe is cursing his wife his heart is not good it is full of hate.
The serpent is subtle and words are his tool.
I was very serious when I say that there are literally thousands of people who are living like they believe that there is a God... even a God whom they fear and who expects holiness, and still they are hell bound because they have been decieved that living like they believe there is a GOD in heaven will get them to heaven and it wont.
YE must be born again.
So, I in no way wanted to offend you, but I did want you and anyone who would read that quote to think about the implications.
It is not enough to know that there is ONE GOD. The devil and the demons do know that and tremble. You must have a relationship with HIM that is intimate and personal. You must be born again. Living like there is a GOD.. even if you know that God is the God of Abraham, will not make you righteous enough to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The Pharisees did live as though there was GOd and that God was the God of Abraham, but our righteousness must exceed the righteousness of the Pharisee. Our righteousness cannot be self rightoeusness... it must be CHRIST RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Thunderz7
Advanced Member
Member # 31
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posted
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Baptism into the death of Jesus, the putting off of the old man, taking up the cross daily and following Him, to crucify the flesh;
this is not about H2O, is is about His death and our acceptance of that sacrifice in putting our sins under the Blood.
Being raised up from the death of our flesh is the born again experience by glory,
being raised up in Christ, clothed in Christ, baptised into the Body of Christ;
not H2O.
Buried by baptism unto death, not baptism in H2O.
Raised up from the dead by glory, not by H2O.
Mk.16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Why do so many assume baptized to mean H2O?
John said:
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
John 1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Every time John speaks of his baptism being of/in water, he makes it known that the baptism of the Messiah will be different, of/in another element.
In Mt.3:11, Mk.1:8, Lk.3:16, Jn.1:26 = John speaks of his baptism with water BUT the one who is to follow will baptize differently.
But = something other than;
in this case something other than H2O.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
These verses tell us to baptize "in the Name" not in H2O.
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
22 ¶ Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Baptism in H2O is not a requirement that seemed good to the Holy Spirt or the apostles and elders.
John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
HIS Blood did away with ceremonial blood sacrifice for us;
so do we continue ceremonial washing or accept that HIS Water flowed with HIS Blood, for us?
For me HIS Blood is enough, equally so HIS Water.
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
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posted
what is believing?
For me Romans 8:9-10 says it best. Salvation can not occur without believing it in your heart and confessing it with your mouth. After you have came to the conclusion that Jesus is truly who He is (John1:14) God made manefested in the flesh. God who is God has been there even from the beginning, even John the apostle wrote that. Baptism could never save anyone apart from acknowledging Jesus the Christ as the prophetized annointed Messiah spoken of by the prophets to come to redeem the world who would follow Him. Even the Apostle Paul said the baptism that must be taken on is the being put under as in death and coming out of as in the resurrection of the Lord. Puting the cart before the horse only accomplish a stalemate or better yet confusion. A horse can not push the cart, because it can not see its way; likewise a person who is baptized before coming to terms with whom Jesus is truly, he or she will not have the Holy Spirit to lead the way.Jesus truly said it; HE IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE no man comes to the Father except by men. Why do beleivers get baptized? Believers get baptized aa a commandment of obedience to identify the old man to be put to death and the new man raised when coming out of the water. JESUS SAID HE THAT BELIEVES AND IS BAPTISED WILL BE SAVED. a PERSON WHO CAN NOT IDENTIFY THE OLD MAN DEAD THRU JESUS, where is he amongst the scheme of things?
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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decibel
Advanced Member
Member # 4737
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posted
Salvation and can it be lost.
Hebrews 10:26-29
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
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Trust Me, Not What You See!!
Yeshua
Posts: 21 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2005
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Hello everyone,
David in his post said it well, "If you continue to produce bad fruit you were never saved"
Most in our day because they have not read the Bible in context, have a misconceptions of Salvation!
Somewhere along the line someone introduced saying a prayer Salvation, like instant pudding or microwave meals. Fast and easy Salvation.
But it just is not taught by Scripture.
We have one instance in Scripture where there may be an exception to the rule and that is the thief on the cross. Yes, he said a prayer as it were and was saved and Yahweh can do this or anything else out of the ordinary He desires because HE is Yahweh Elohim creator of the universe and all that is beyond.
The thing about Salvation is, it is of the heart, and only Yahweh can know the heart.
Man’s / Woman’s heart can deceive even the individual that poses it .
Easybelievism is a product of a user friendly Gospel, that make Yahweh out to be no more than a pimp sugar daddy.
The thing the thief understood was that the Gospel was going to cost him his life, short as it was going to be.
The thief died before he died.
The true Gospel teaches take up your cross and follow Me, Yeshua said.
There is no other way to eternal life.
The Scripture’s teach it is appointed for a man once to die and then the judgment.
Think about that statement…….???????
You will die to self on this side of eternity and be judge by the Blood of Yeshua and gain entrance to eternal life.
Or
You will die a natural death an be judged for your own sin and suffer eternal damnation in the lake of fire.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
Ah, don't get so offended by it. We are just one big family here and sometimes we say things before we think about it. I know I do.
I have known Linda for years and I know she loves the Lord Jesus Chirst and she loves people. But Jesus is first in her life and that helps her see things in the light of His love. If we love Jesus we will be offensive to others because we love the Lord Jesus and we love them and want them to know Him better. Not saying you don't know Him, but Linda saw the quote in a different light, because we see a lot of cults and false gospel messages.
But I believe you ment well by it.
Hang in there and keep on sharing with us!
Plow on, plow on...
David
![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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kskibble
Advanced Member
Member # 4858
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posted
i suppose in the future i should just not bother posting on these things and just keep my trap shut and just read so i don't have to get attacked over every little thing.
Posts: 30 | From: Kansas | Registered: Jul 2005
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kskibble
Advanced Member
Member # 4858
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posted
That was the intent David but in order to avoid hard feelings and being told I'm being similar to a serpent with my words I'll remove it to make her happy.
Dreadfully sorry for offending someone with something that was important to me.
Posts: 30 | From: Kansas | Registered: Jul 2005
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
You know David, I saw this quote in the Quote forum and there is no way to respond there to quotes, ...
I didn't relized that. I have it set now where all registered users can post quotes and reply. Thanks for letting me know.
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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shadowmaker
Advanced Member
Member # 3696
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posted
Baptism doesnt save you. Thats the reason many people are going to hell bc they were baptised at a young age and they believe thats what saves them.
If you have to be baptised in order to be saved, why was Jesus baptised?
What if someone cant be baptised? What if someone gets saved at home, in sunday school, driving down the road? What if their church doesnt do bapitism upon request but rather at a certain time or day?
And yes I have been baptised but that water didnt save me, the blood of Jesus Christ saved me. ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jul 2004
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KnowHim
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Member # 1
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posted
I agree. That is why I wrote:
But I know if one takes the time to get to know Jesus Christ, they will know there is a God and will be looking forward to meeting Him!
It is a good quote if you are referring to the God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob.
I guess it is all how you look at it.
Sort of like:
If you are living like there is no God, you better be right!
as there will be hell to pay.
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
You know David, I saw this quote in the Quote forum and there is no way to respond there to quotes, but I have to tell you and I dont want to offend our precious new member who uses this in her signature, but this quote really really troubles me...
I know personally some Mormons and some Jehovah witnesses and some Muslims that are living their lives as if there is a God, but it is not going to do them one bit of good in the judgement. We cannot live our lives acceptable to GOD without living it indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit. Ye must be born again I dont care whether you believe that there is a God or not.
I dont mean to be a stick in the mud here, but this quote to me is very subtle... about as subtle as a serpent.
JMHO
Linda
By the way, the mormons and the Muslims are all looking for the return of Jesus with much joy and anticipation.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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kskibble
Advanced Member
Member # 4858
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posted
I agree David!!
But I don't think some people understand that.
Thanks for the links.
Posts: 30 | From: Kansas | Registered: Jul 2005
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by kskibble:
I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out
there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out
there is.
AMEN!!!!
![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
But I know if one takes the time to get to know Jesus Christ, they will know there is a God and will be looking forward to meeting Him!
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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Member # 1
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posted
Well first of all one has to be born-again. That means you know Jesus Christ as your savior and you have a personaly relationship with Him. You don't just know about Him, but you know Him. It is like knowing a parachute will save you if you jump out of a plane. But if you don't put it on and wear it, you will not be saved from the fall.
Walking the isles, praying a prayer, knowing about Jesus, going to church, getting baptized, etc.... will not save you. Only knowing and following Jesus Christ will save you, because once you truely know Jesus Christ you will want to be with Him forever and will do anything for Him just like you would do for your first love.
If one produces bad fruit and continues to do so, they never knew Jesus as their savior. Therefore they were never saved to begin with.
So one must be sure they have salvation before they worry about losing it. If you are saved, you will know it. That is the point.
This means that if one is saved they will live like it. And once you are truly saved, you will not want to re-crucify Jesus afresh.
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
But to teach one that they can just walk the aisle and be baptized (get your ticket to heaven) and go back to your former way of life is a very bad thing. This is deception and can and does cause many to never come to know Jesus Christ personally as their savior. One should watch what they are saying and never cause one to lose their soul because of this type of teaching. If one takes the teaching of the OSAS an don’t understand it, believes in the ticket to heaven syndrome, and never comes to know Jesus Christ but just does the ritual aisle walk, then they will be lost in Church and never come to salvation. For the longer they go in this condition, the harder their heart will become and they may never truly believe in Jesus because they have convinced themselves that they are saved through the ritual then having coming into a real relationship with Jesus Christ. Thus never ever being saved in the first place.
WARNING - Never try to convince someone that they are saved because they walked the aisle or got baptized. You don’t know their heart, only God knows their heart. And if you convince someone they are saved when in reality they are not, then you are assisting Satan and helping them slide quietly into the pit of hell. If someone is not living like they are saved, then most likely they are not and never came to know Jesus as their Lord in the first place.
Matthew 7:22-23 (NKJV)
Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. . . . Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? (1 Jn. 2:19,22).
Should we just assume that all those who claim to be Christians are saved, no matter how they are living? No, the burden of proof is on the person who claims to be a new creation in Christ. Anyone who says he knows Christ as Savior should prove it by living a life that supports his claim. Paul said of such persons, "'The Lord knows those who are His,' and, 'Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity'" (2 Tim. 2:19).
The apostle John indicated that some who depart from the faith reveal that they were never really saved in the first place. He wrote, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us" (1 Jn. 2:19). Given such possibilities, all we can do is conclude that a person either is or is not giving evidence of having eternal life. God alone is his Judge.
For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire" (2 Pet. 2:20-22).
The illustration at the end of this passage shows us that Peter was not implying a loss of salvation. Since the dog was still a dog, and the pig was still a pig, they both went back to their own natural ways. Both returned because neither had experienced an essential change of nature. At best, both had merely been cleaned, combed, pampered, and flattered.
This is the best explanation for those who appear to have completely lost any faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. But if the truth were known, they never had it. They may have enjoyed many of the benefits of the truth and people of God for a while, but it had never resulted in a real change of heart. They had grown up among the wheat as hard-to-tell-the-difference weeds (tares). But in time they showed their true colors. John explained that, in leaving, they made it clear that their salvation was not the real thing (1 Jn. 2:19).
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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kskibble
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Member # 4858
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posted
yes dear...i've been baptized. twice. however i don't feel the first one counted because first of all i wasn't saved. second of all i was an infant...thirdly...it was by sprinkling.
i didn't get saved until 3 yrs ago. i got rebaptized last year in obedience with the word of being immersed. i feel that once you are saved then it is the appropriate time to be baptized as a symbol of rebirth and cleansing yourself of the old being.
if you haven't accepted Christ into your heart as Lord and Savior and asked for forgiveness of your sins and repented what good is baptism going to do you? being baptized is not salvation in my eyes because that would be being saved by works which i don't believe in.
Posts: 30 | From: Kansas | Registered: Jul 2005
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Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
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posted
Salvation is of Jesus; Guided by Jesus; so He decides what it means to be saved! I will listen to the words of Jesus! FOR A VERY, VERY, VERY, LONG time I used to believe that if one merely say I believe would be saved; however when I READ IN THE GOSPEL THAT JESUS SAID,
HE THAT BELIEVES AND IS BAPTISED IS SAVED..
SO WHAT'S THE PROBLEM!
The thief on the cross who recognized Jesus as being the chosen one, was counted as righteous as the same way, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses... etc was counted righteous BECAUSE JESUS HAD YET TO RESURECT FROM THE GRAVE! That thief was under the old convent law!
HAVE YOU BEEN BAPTISED?
HAVE YOU OBEYED JESUS, WHEN HE SAID TO BE BAPTISED?
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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kskibble
Advanced Member
Member # 4858
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posted
hmm...
i would have to disagree with the statement that salvation can not occur without being baptized. salvation in my eyes is not dependent on baptism but on belief and faith on the part of the believer.
i agree with the other post that if one is truly saved they are not going to have the desire to go out and murder someone either.
in order to get saved you have to accept Christ into your heart as Lord and Savior. which means you have to believe in Him in the first place. and i don't see how someone could fall away unless they didn't completely believe in the first place.
thank you.
it's really sad that there is so much division on these type of topics. one day...we will have the answers for sure. ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
Posts: 30 | From: Kansas | Registered: Jul 2005
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Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
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posted
I truly believe that there must be a definite reason why Jesus said, "He that believes and is baptised is saved and he that believes not is condemned". Salvation can not occur without being baptized. Many mistranslate about the episode or conversation between Nicodemus and Jesus. In manys eyes people like Nicodemus says, "Can I return a second time into my mother's womb and be born again?" Jesus wasn't refering to earthly birth but a spiritual birth. Even on the very day Jesus was baptised by the Forerunner John the Baptiser, the very manifeastion of the trinity was made for the very first time! In Hebraic terms, washing in water is a sign of inward purification. We are washed in the blood vicorously when we are baptised.There has to be an obvious linked between baptism and salvation. All believers in the new testament were baptised after believing to mark their credeance in the faith, as both an inward and outward manefestation.
Simply put, Believing is one thing, but if you are not willing to take the mark of Jesus, then that believe is dead.
I believe you must interpret salvation from the very words of Jesus, so therefore- the Apostle Paul must have written with that in mine- when he (as with many say), "Our Master had said-"
Your belief must be a changing a washing of regeneration puting on the Holy Spirit, which is the other comforter!
Salvation apart from the Master is void!
I will not die, but live and declare the works of the Lord forever! Psalms 118:17
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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Bandit
Advanced Member
Member # 3643
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I believe that you must be born again, but for the born again there is complete security in their eternal salvation. Jesus is both author and finisher of our faith.
Hello Helpforhomeschoolers,
To point out how close we are I would like to point out that I agree with almost every word you said. Here is the slight revision of how I would have said your words.
"I believe that you must be born again, and for the born again there is complete security in Jesus Christ. Jesus is both author and finisher of our faith."
Notice that I ascribe the believer's security to being "in Jesus Christ". And I would also say that the meaning of the passage from which your last statement was taken (Jesus being the author and finisher of our faith) is subject to various interpretations. But, in any case, my view is not one of insecurity in Christ, but my view is that one must remain in Christ to be in Christ, and to be in Christ means to have eternal life.
"He who has the Son has the life, He who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." [1 John 5:12]
Bandit
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
I believe that you must be born again, but for the born again there is complete security in their eternal salvation. Jesus is both author and finisher of our faith.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Bandit
Advanced Member
Member # 3643
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by kskibble:
I've noticed lately on many forums that people seem to have issues with salvation and whether or not it can be lost once we receive it. They don't appear to understand how salvation works. I was just wondering what everyone here thinks.
Hello kskibble,
I just thought I would pipe up for the alternative view. I am one of those who see each person as having a role to play in their own salvation. I believe the Parable of the Sower details the major types of responses to the gospel. Some never respond at all, some respond for a period of time and then fall away for one reason or another, and some respond and persevere in their response.
But I do believe a person can know that they, as a believer, are secure. But this does not mean that "once a believer, always a believer", is a true statement.
And yes, such discussions can get heated at times. But hopefully most of us dialogue in more civil tones most of the time.
Bandit
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
I beleive once you are "saved" then you are all ways saved.
We were saved by the Grace of God because his Son shed his blood upon the Cross. He was the ultamate sacrafise and nothing can ever undo that. WE are promised that if we shall beleive then we shall not die but have ever lasting life.
There are so many arguments that people who are opposed to this beleife can throw out there: for example what if someone gives their life to God and then kills someone, then will he/her still go to heaven or will they go to hell?
My answer to that is this:
If someone is truly a born again Christian then they will never kill someone, etc.
We as Christians, those who truly beleive any way, are NOT going to hell but are assured of the reward of heaven.
It is all thanks to Jesus.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Primoa1970
Advanced Member
Member # 1016
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posted
Hello Fran,
This is a topic that used to be (and probably still is) a heated issue on this board. I used to aggressively defend it....I am on the Calvinistic side of things as far as election and grace go....knowing that a person is saved by grace and by the beckoning call of the Holy Spirit, which means salvation did not begin with us....but rather, with God (i.e. He called us and prompted us to respond because sinful man is not able to choose righteousness on his own)
And that once a person is truly secure in the faith, they are saved.
Ephesians 1:13-14 says that having believed, once we heard the word of truth, that we were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise who is the guarantee (or literally: the down-payment) of our inheritance....we are the purchased possession.
There's no one who can break that seal....this is one of the reasons why I strongly hold to eternal security for the true believer.
That's where I stand....from what I remember though, it's pretty split down the middle here on this BBS.
-Primo
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1 John 1
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Posts: 639 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Feb 2003
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kskibble
Advanced Member
Member # 4858
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posted
I've noticed lately on many forums that people seem to have issues with salvation and whether or not it can be lost once we receive it. They don't appear to understand how salvation works. I was just wondering what everyone here thinks.
Posts: 30 | From: Kansas | Registered: Jul 2005
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