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Topic: Thy Kingdom Come:The Millennium
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epouraniois
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hitch:
So what is you think Jesus is doing now if not reigning and ruling the entire universe?
Take care
Hitch
Not so much what I think, but if we are to approach a place of inherent acknowledgment, then it is of the noble who search and see what it is that is written. To respectfully continue to the substance of your question, which I thank, we can read that Christ is not now manifest, but hid in God:
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
That does also speak to the difference in the various callings, of some who will see Him coming, and to those who will manifest with Him.
'with' Him is key preposition, not used of those who see Him coming:
G4862
σύν
sun
soon
A primary preposition denoting union; with or together (but much closer than G3326 or G3844), that is, by association, companionship, process, resemblance, possession, instrumentality, addition, etc.: - beside, with. In compounds it has similar applications, including completeness.
Now, it is the prince of the power of the air who reigns:
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
and that spurious messiah {counterfieter} who will first come to the earth showing of himself that he is God {2 Thes 2} de facto
Christ the Lord and Saviour said:
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
The apostle and prisoner of the Lord for the hope of Israel said:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
All this in no way causes any distress to the fact that Christ can dwell in our hearts by faith, quickening our hearts even now, creating in us (who are called as members of His body, the church-Eph.1.22-23)one new man unto good works even now;
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by (grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship
which case revolves around that which is written in ch 1 pertaining to predestination, which comes from two words having the meaing of setting an alotment before hand, giving us the idea, as it pertains to inheritance/the subject, of who would and who would not walk within these aforehand set alotments, or boundries, wherefore, the apostle writes, speaking of reward, to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. a review of Col 2 may be in order, for the purpose of seeing what forces were/are at work against holding fast to the head which is Christ.
Eph 5 may give a clue as to the final goal of the ages, bringing all things, both the family of heaven and the familiy of earth under one headship, wherefore it is written:
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order {rank}: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then
cometh the end,
when
he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father;
when
he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till
he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet.
But when
he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when
all things shall be subdued unto him,
then
shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him,
that
God may be all in all.
to the Hebrews, they are being built into a building, an habitation of the Lord
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
to the church which is His body,
Eph 2:19 ...of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto a holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God through the Spirit.
The purpose of the age times is found in one word : redemption, and the purpose of redemption is found in one word : pleroma, where the word makes it's entrance by the words of our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus in Mat 9:16, explaining this flesh age to those who are dilegent to search and see.
quote:
Originally posted by Hitch:
Paul defines the Kingdom, speaking only of what is found in Moses and the Prophets as Righteousness ,Peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit. Do you think Paul was mistaken?
Hitch
Paul had more than one ministry, the risen Saviour and Lord Christ Jesus said:
Act 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness BOTH of these things (1)which thou hast seen, and (2)of those things in the which I will appear unto thee
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed...
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Hitch
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kindgo:
In jesus' own words He has gone to prepare a place for us.
Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
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Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.
He is coming soon!
Is the believer living today seated in the heavenlies places in Christ? This is the 'place' He had to go first,taking His own Blood ,clearing the path for us to follow,it is a 'place' in the Kingdom, it is also a current reality. We are and we live in the City of the Living God.
But since you brought up what Jesus said this too should be considered;
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Thus the best possible situation for growth of the Kingdom is Christ in Heaven and the HS ministering on earth. It is the HS time to complete His service, Jesus will remain where He is until the resurrection as per Psalm 110.
One of teh many sad things about Millennialism is its inheirent dismissal of thousands,I was about to say millennia,of years of work done perfectly by the Holy Spirit as though it were meaningless and Christ must set all to right by His bodily presence. It isa s adsurd, as it is frightful since all teach that the culmination of this perfection ,the fabled 'rod of Iron' rule is apostacy
Take care
Hitch
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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posted
In jesus' own words He has gone to prepare a place for us.
Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
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Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.
He is coming soon!
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Hitch
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So what is you think Jesus is doing now if not reigning and ruling the entire universe?
And didnt you just yesterday glory in the fact that Christ had not set up a temporal kingdom?
Paul defines the Kingdom, speaking only of what is found in Moses and the Prophets as Righteousness ,Peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit. Do you think Paul was mistaken?
Take care
Hitch
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epouraniois
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yes, regarding Maranatha, from 1Co 16:22, they were to be, as were the apostles all, expecting the national repentance which was the conditional responce of their Jewish OT at hand kingdom, for it was written of them then,
1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren
but no such statement is given over to the church pronounced after Acts set the nation amidst all nations, being since, and now, a nation having no longer preimenance to go out as the channel of blessing promised and covenanted only to them.
Act 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Act 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
Act 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
Act 3:18 But those things, which God before had showed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
for there is written another purpose at work According to the eternal purpose of His will, given for the time now present, isn't there? given us in Eph 3.9-10? and 4.3?
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord
Eph 4:3 Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
which unity we are not told to make, but to guard, and this unity is not on the earth, but this 7 fold unity has Christ in the center, all 7 that make up this unity is far above all in the heavenly places:
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
not to say that God shall not take up that nation again, in resurrection, till all that is written and promised them be fulfilled, Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Paul speaks of John being caught up, and henceforth writing the revelation in ad42, whereby all Israel, as Paul would later write at the end of Acts, in Romans 10, had heard, but they did not receive, fulfilling many prophecies placing them nationally, 'not my people', but for a time (Hos 1-3)
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SoftTouch
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I found this article posted over on RaptureNews:
Thy Kingdom Come:The Millennium
by Chuck Missler
It is tragic that most of the major denominations - Roman Catholic and Protestant - embrace an eschatology ("study of last things") that is amillennial : a view that does not envision a literal rule of Christ on the Throne of David on the Planet Earth.
While there are many different, yet defendable, views regarding many aspects of end-time prophecies, this basic divergence - denying a literal Millennium - is particularly dangerous in that it would appear to be an attack on the very character of God! It does violence to His numerous and explicit promises and commitments that pervade both the Old and New Testaments.
The Old Testament is replete with commitments for a literal Messiah ultimately ruling the world through Israel from His throne in Jerusalem. There are at least 1,845 references in the Old Testament and 17 books give prominence to the event. The ancient rabbinical aspirations were dominated by it. In fact, this obsession obscured their recognizing the Messiah when He made His initial appearance.
There are at least 318 references in 216 chapters of the New Testament and 23 of its 27 books give prominence to the event. The early church looked longingly for His promised return as their "Blessed Hope" to rid their desperate world of its evil rulers. How and where did this skepticism known as "Amillennialism" begin?
Origen
Pious, popular, and persuasive, Origen stands out as one of the great figures of the 3rd century church. Even at the age of 18, he stood out spectacularly well as a teacher in Alexandria. (In misguided obedience to Matthew 19:12, he emasculated himself, which he later regretted.) Later, as a prolific writer based in Caesarea, his De Principiis systematically laid out Christian doctrine in terms of Hellenic thinking and set the pattern for most subsequent theological thought for many years. His numerous sermons and commentaries, however, tragically also established an extreme pattern of allegorizing Scripture, which was to strongly influence Augustine in subsequent years.
Augustine
Augustine, the Bishop of Hippo (A.D. 354-430), was one of the most influential leaders of the Western church, living during the turbulent days of the disintegration of the Roman Empire.
He lived a sensuous, dissolute life, but following a dramatic conversion he experienced a total change of character. In 391 he was ordained as a priest in North Africa and four years later was elevated to the Bishop of Hippo. He embarked on a writing career and his extensive doctrinal writings deeply affected the Medieval Roman Catholic Church. Augustine's most elaborate writing, The City of God , was written as the Empire lay crumbling under a siege by half-civilized tribes. It portrayed the Church as a new civic order in the midst of the ruins of the Roman Empire. Augustine died while the Vandals were besieging the very gates of Hippo in A.D. 430.
Although his writings effectively defeated a number of heresies emerging in those turbulent times, the allegorizing influences of Origen left an amillennial eschatology in their wake. As the Church had increasingly become an instrument of the state, it wasn't politically expedient to look toward a literal return of Christ to rid the world of its evil rulers! The allegorical reposturing of those passages was more "politically correct." (This reminds me of the saying among the data processing profession: "If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything!")
The Reformation Shortfall
A thousand years later, under the influences of Martin Luther and others, the Reformation brought an intensive return to the authority of the Scriptures which, in turn, resulted in the subsequent reform in soteriology (the study of salvation) with its emphasis on salvation by faith alone. Many were willingly burned at the stake for their commitment to a Biblical perspective. However, one of the unfortunate shortcomings of the Reformation was that it failed to also reexamine the eschatology of the Medieval Church in the light of Scripture. Thus, the allegorizing alchemy of Origen, institutionalized by Augustine, left a denial of the Millennium that still continues to pervade the doctrines of most Protestant denominations today.
From Augustine to Auschwitz
One of the derivative aspects of an amillennial perspective is that it denies Israel's future role in God's plans. This also leads to a "replacement theology" in which the Church is viewed as replacing Israel in God's program for mankind. In addition to forcing an allegorization of many key passages of Scripture, this also led to the tragedy of the Holocaust in Europe. The responsibility for the six million Jews who were systematically murdered in the concentration camps has to include the silent pulpits who had embraced this heretical eschatology and its attendant anti-Semitism.
Reality of the Millennium
For anyone who takes the Bible seriously, the numerous explicit commitments of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that the Messiah would literally rule from Zion cannot be ignored or explained away. God's explicit and unconditional commitment of the land of Israel to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the very issue that is being challenged by the world today! And, the resurgence of amillennialism, and its attendant doctrines, are again setting the stage for the next holocaust.
1. In the New Testament, these commitments are reconfirmed. Every Christmas we are reminded that Gabriel promised Mary that her son was destined to sit on the Throne of David (which did not exist during the days of His ministry).
2. It is yet to be fulfilled. In fact, He taught us to pray specifically for it: "Thy Kingdom come...." What does that mean? The thousand-year reign, from which the Millennium takes its label, is detailed in numerous passages including Revelation 20, Isaiah 65, and Ezekiel 40-48, among others. Ezekiel's detailed tour of the Millennial Temple virtually defies any skeptic's attempt to treat it allegorically (see diagram). Encompassing a Temple area 50 miles on a side, substantially to the north of Jerusalem, as a source of a river that flows toward both the Mediterranean to the west and the Dead Sea to the east, Ezekiel's description implies a total change of topography, which is explicit in the Scripture.
3.However, the more we learn about the Millennium, the more questions it raises. It is not heaven: it is clearly distinctive in contrast to the eternal state which follows (Revelation 21). It will be characterized by a limited amount of evil, which Christ will judge perfectly and immediately.
4. Neither is it the "new earth" that God will yet create;
5. for therein righteousness dwells, which is something not true of the Millennium.
Millennium Paradoxes
As an example of some of the ostensible paradoxes of the Millennium is the strange question of death. Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, a dear friend and highly respected Messianic scholar, suggests that death in the Millennium will be for unbelievers only. Nowhere in the Bible does it speak of a resurrection of Millennial saints. This may be why the resurrection of the tribulation saints is said to complete the "first resurrection" (Rev 20:4-6).
From the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34, it would seem that there will be no Jewish unbelievers in the kingdom; all Jews born during the Millennium will accept the Messiah before their 100th year.
6. Unbelief would thus be among the Gentiles only, and therefore, death would exist only among the Gentiles.
7. [Jer. 31:35-37 refutes "Reconstructionism" and similar heresies.] Another strange issue is the prominence of sacrifices in the Millennium. It would seem that they are memorials after the fact, just as the sacrifices in the Old Testament were memorials in advance.
A Time to Study
As recent events have so dramatically emphasized to all of us, it is, indeed, a time to reexamine our perspectives, and to acknowledge in our personal priorities that history includes some shocking "non-linearities": even our most cherished presumptions are subject to cataclysmic challenges! It is time to refresh our understanding from the bedrock of Scripture and to recognize the urgency of the times. I believe we are rapidly being plunged into a period of time about which the Bible says more than it does about any other period of time in history - including the time that Jesus walked the shores of Galilee and climbed the mountains of Judea!
Are you ready? Maranatha!
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**NOTES**
See our briefing package, The Next Holocaust and the Refuge in Edom. Also, Hal Lindsey's Road to Holocaust, Bantam Books, is a definitive study of these issues.
Luke 1:32.
See our briefing package, Thy Kingdom Come.
Isaiah 11:1-16.
Isaiah 65:17; 66:22; 2 Peter 3:13; Rev 21:1.
Isaiah 65:20.
Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Footsteps of the Messiah, p.273. Cf. Jerusalem in the Millennium: pp.330ff.
8. Hebrews 10:4ff.
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***This article reproduced with permission in its entirety from http://www.khouse.org
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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