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Author
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Topic: I think I see something I never saw before and have never heard from anyone else
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epouraniois
unregistered
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posted
The Lord Christ Jesus, and the other 4 had to be finished Before the Sabbath at dusk, so if it was thur, then He was rose too early if He rose on the first day of the week,
but if it was the High Sabbath of Wed, the middle of the week when He was cut off, as spoken by Daniel the prophet, then counting 3 days and 3 nights, rising on the first day of the week would put the risen Lord too many days,
wed dusk to thur dusk = 1 night and day
thur dusk to fri dusk = 1 night and day
fri dusk to sat dusk = 1 night and day
1+1+1=3, if we minus 3 hours off of that, placing the time as the 9th hour (3 pm), it is still not sunday morning,
now the Hebrew and other eastern languages do permit a day for a partial day, a week for a partial week, a year for a partial year, but NEVER when it is expressly given as it was Biblically, three days and three nights (as Jonah was)the language cannot bear any slippage in this case
He rose “on the third day” (Mat 16:21), not “on the fourth day”, and they gathered goods, on the day between the two Sabbaths
he 14th of Nisan, which was the "Preparation Day", began at sunset on our Tuesday (Gentile reckoning). "The sixth hour" of John 19:14 is the sixth hour of the night, and therefore corresponds to midnight, at which, according to Gentile reckoning, Wednesday began.
The twenty-four hours were divided into the twelve hours of the night (reckoned from sunset), and "twelve hours in the day" (reckoned from sunrise. See John 11:9). Hence "the sixth hour" of John 19:14 was our midnight; "the third hour" of Mark 15:25 was our 9 a.m.; "the sixth hour" of Matt. 27:45; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44; was our noon and the "ninth hour" of Matt. 27:45,46; Mark 15:33.34; Luke 23:44; was our 3 p.m.
compairing the additional following accounts carefully, it can be seen that they differ for good reasons, take the two Marys, they went twice
the accounts each represent Chirst from their making Him known, the King (lion), the ox (servant), the eagle (above all), the man (of humanity)
Eze 1:8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.
Note the counterfit (the spurious messiah)has one different head in Revelation
http://www.angelfire.com/nv/TheOliveBranch/append166.html
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
quote:
First thing I never recognized that the scriptures make it plain that Yeshua had 2 distinct different beatings before His crucifixion.
Actually, he was beaten 3 times...
First before the High Priest by the Jews:
Matthew 26:65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.
67 Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands, 68 Saying, Prophesy unto us, thou Christ, Who is he that smote thee?
He was scouraged by Pilate:
Matthew 27;26 ¶ Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.
Then he was beaten by the Roman Soldiers:
Mattew 27:30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.
quote:
Second did Moses’ disobedience alter Yahweh’s intention, plans, design for believers entrance into the Kingdom of Yahweh.
It was Yahweh’s plan that Moses go with / lead the people into the promise land before of his disobedience.
We know Moses was allowed to look over into the promise land but not enter.
My question is how does this apply to the New Covenant believer? Do you understand what I am trying to ask?
Well, I think I do, but I am not sure that we will both go to the same place with this. I am going to break the above up a bit here to show you what I see:
quote:
Second did Moses’ disobedience alter Yahweh’s intention, plans, design for believers entrance into the Kingdom of Yahweh.
1. The Kingdom of yahway is not a place it is a people:
Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
This people that God used Moses to lead out of Egypt, would enter a covenant with God to be HIS people and HE their GOD - thus they became HIS KINGDOM.
He desired them to go to a land that was NOT their own, but that they would occupy as long as they lived in the earth.
God's plan was for them to live there in peaceful and faithful obedience and in HIS provision. And be a witness to the heathen that GOD was GOD.
Still when they would sleep with their fathers (die) they would be in Abraham's bosom until Christ was manifest.
The Israelite would live this life in the flesh in earthly material blessing if they obeyed,then die, and await the resurrection, Christ would be manifest and they would receive heavenly blessing.
Now Christ is manifest:
The Christian dies though he is alive, to receive heavenly blessing - we are NOW blessed with all spiritual blessing in heavenly places. We are NOW a Kingdom and we soujourn in the wilderness of earth, while we are citizens of heaven. If we walk in the spirit and not the flesh, there is reward in the life to come and blessing in this life as well, even though we are persecuted or without material blessing here.
It is like opposite or mirror images of the same picture. Though I cant show it well.
quote:
It was Yahweh’s plan that Moses go with / lead the people into the promise land before of his disobedience
Was it? Or Could it be that God had a bigger plan?
First, yes the just must live and walk by faith. When we live and walk by faith, we live and walk in this life in obedience....(but we can because ours is HIS faith and it is a faith obedient unto death)
Moses was not born gain: Note here again what God said Moses was guilty of:
quote:
12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.
Moses appears to have sinned. Moses God said, believed him not. (lacked faith)(what is not in faith is sin)
But Moses was still just. You and I differ here, but the just are just from the beginning. The just may sin and in this life lose Reward as Moses did... but remember, Moses was not yet born again. Moses would be born again from those who sleep.
We are born again here while we live and being JUST we remain Just, but we do lose reward in the life to come.
See: Revelation 22:11
You asked: quote:
did Moses’ disobedience alter Yahweh’s intention, plans, design for believers entrance into the Kingdom of Yahweh.
I would say no... because God knows the end from the beginning. God knew that Moses would disobey. But this is not an ateration of GOD's plan by man. Moses' disobedience was within the permissive will of God, but also it is part of the plan because it illustrates in the natural something important that is spiritual truth:
1.) Even for the Just, disobedience in this life will cause us to receive less than God's best for us in this life and/or to lose rewards in the life to come. But GOD delivers the Just out of temptation and reserves the unjust as unjust unto judgement.
2.) Those who will be justified in the end, are just from the beginning. Moses was Just and his sin did not change that; we see in Jude 1:9 Michael contends for the body of Moses, that he rest among the just and await the manifestation of Christ who IS the resurrection. Moses was just at the time of HIS death or there would have been no contention for his body!!!
3.) Moses' disobedience was part of the plan:God's permissive will allowed Moses to sin, and yet not be outside HIS perfect will, which was to fortel of Christ's coming
Remember how God said Moses did not believe him did not sanctify HIM before the people?
Yet... HE was sanctified!
Numbers 20:13 This is the water of Meribah; because the children of Israel strove with the LORD, and he was sanctified in them.
Now look at this Psalm:
Psalm 106:2 They angered him also at the waters of strife, so that it went ill with Moses for their sakes: 33 Because they provoked his spirit, so that he spake unadvisedly with his lips.
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It went ill with Moses for the people's sake!
Moses took upon himself the blame/fault for God not being sanctified in the eyes of the people. And in that God was sanctified in their eyes. But Moses did this the only way a man who was not Christ could... by his own sin, by disobedience. ONLY Christ could do this by Obedience. This why Moses could deliver them out of Egypt and give them water in the desert, but he could not delivr them out of hell and give them living water
Think of this:
Could I die for you? If I give my life for you... I sin, as ONLY God has right to say when life passes.
Christ, because he was God could give his life and not sin, because Christ had the power to SPEAK and say it is finished, and sin when it is finished bringeth forth death.
quote:
We know Moses was allowed to look over into the promise land but not enter.
My question is how does this apply to the New Covenant believer?
I believe that it applies this way:
1.) Obedience in this life will prevent you from suffering the conseqiuncea of sin in this life. If you dont steal, you wont go to jail for stealing.
2.) Obedience in this life, will give you reward and not loss of reward when we stand before the flaming eyes of Christ at the Bema Seat.
3.) Obedience in this life will keep you from becoming unusefull to God in this life where you had once been used mightily.
4.) The just remain just because not one of us is just of our own accord, but because GOD has shown mercy upon us and it is GOD that will rebuke the devil and contend for the body of the just in death.
5.) The born again believer has something that Moses did not have. We have the indwelling and sealing Holy Spirit of God and sin is not imputed to us as such. Unlike Moses, we are now in this life seated with Christ in the heavenlies, blessed with all spirtitual blessings in the heavenlies, free from the bondage to sin and bound to Christ whose yoke is not burdensome, free to OBEY because Christ has done what Moses could not do.
Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
We live by the faith of Christ;
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Moses did not thwart the will of God, Moses participated in God's plan which was to show the insufficiency of man and to prophesy of the coming Christ who is all sufficient. Moses could become the blame the reason for the people's not sanctifying God in their eyes. Moses could take the anger of God that was for the people, but then Moses could only die and wait for Christ who is the resurrection.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
First thing I never recognized that the scriptures make it plain that Yeshua had 2 distinct different beatings before His crucifixion.
Second did Moses’ disobedience alter Yahweh’s intention, plans, design for believers entrance into the Kingdom of Yahweh.
It was Yahweh’s plan that Moses go with / lead the people into the promise land before of his disobedience.
We know Moses was allowed to look over into the promise land but not enter.
My question is how does this apply to the New Covenant believer?
Do you understand what I am trying to ask?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
WELL, Dale, I am not sure what you are seing that you never heard?
This scene of Moses striking the rock has always been one that stood out to me, becaue look what God says:
quote:
Numbers 20:8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.
Note that Moses was not just tp speak to the rock, but to speak to the rock before the people, that they could see him speak to to the rock.... then Look what Moses does (this astounds me).....
quote:
9 And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him.
10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?
11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.
Not only did Moses not do as God commanded, but Moses took credit for the bringing forth water from the rock!!! Then look at what God says Moses is guilty of....
quote:
12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.
What do you think it was that Moses was to say to the rock? Clearly, GOD is the ROCK of our salvation; what ever it was that Moses was to say to the Rock in front of the people was going to sanctify... hallow GOD in their eyes!
Moses struck the rock the first time on God's command.. this was a picture of the smite-ing of Jesus, but when Moses comes again to the Rock he is not smite it again, but to speak to it... to give it honor in the face and eye's of the people, that they know that God is the Rock of our salvation from which living, life giving water flows... but Moses, did not obey God, and when we rebell against God we smite the rock that has already been smitten, it is as Paul said, to crucify Christ again, when man who is free from sin, sins willfully.
I dont know what you see, but that is what I see in this scripture... and that our sin (rebellion, failure to obey) is really 2 blows.. one that takes credit for God's work, and the 2nd, in exalting ourselves, we really are failing to exalt HIM!
Past that, I am at this point of the mind that Jesus was crucified on Wednesday not Thursday.
What are you trying to show us Dale?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
please read and comment! Thank you
SUFFERING THE SENTENCE OF OUR PUNISHMENT
Each act fulfilled Scripture. Each stroke of the hand or fist, the whipping, the spitting, Yeshua quietly bore it in our stead - our punishment was upon HimY.
Nothing was left out by the unsuspecting “actors”. Even the Roman soldiers unwittingly fulfilled what Moses in a moment of anger inadvertently enacted, the reason for which he was not permitted to enter the promised land.
Instead of beating Yeshua but once they beat Him a second time! 69
It was not again the 39 whip lashes, but their hands and fists and the reed. The bamboo reed is very hard, cracking bones and splitting skin and flesh wide open.
During Israel’s sojourn in the wilderness of Zin they thirsted greatly at a place called Massah/ ” Test” and Meribah/ ”Quarrel ”. G-d commanded Moses to smite a certain rock and streams of clear water came gushing out. Like a river these waters flowed70. Towards the end of their forty year sojourn they came once again to that place and again there was no water, and again they quarreled with Moses. Once more G-d commanded Moses to take his staff and assemble everyone before the rock. But this time he was to speak to the rock to yield its water71. Instead, angered by their constant complaining and lack of faith, Moses struck the rock twice. Water came out, providing abundant drink for all. But Moses had disobeyed and therefore could not bring Israel into the land, after having guided and borne them for forty years72.
This Rock of living waters prefigured Messiah, the Rock of our salvation. G-d ordained Him to be smitten once, not twice. Moses altered this and it went ill with him because of it. And Yeshua had to endure a second smiting. What is written must be fulfilled. The Scriptures cannot be broken.
e)xYeshua was crucified, died and was buried on
Thursday/yom chamishi /fifth day
John 19:28, 14, 17, 31, 42; Leviticus 23:7
It was the Day of Preparation for the Passover, not only for Shabbat / Saturday. It was a Shabbath HaGadol73, since the day of Passover, a day of solemn rest, was followed immediately by Shabbath / 7th day, which is also a day of solemn rest; hence two days in which absolutely no work was permitted nor the dead to be buried. Much preparation and care is required for such a double high holiday.
Immediately at sundown, yom chamishi / 5th day ended and yom shishi / 6th day began, and with it the Passover. All of Israel ceased work and prepared to sit down at lavishly set tables to celebrate and eat the Seder, usually deep into the night. There would be temple and synagogue services the next morning, and at sundown of yom shishi / 6th day, Passover would end and the Festival of Unleavened Bread begin as well as Shabbath / 7th day. It was a most holy and solemn Shabbath.
A day was reckoned “one day” as long as the sun was up, even if only one hour was left until sundown. This is very important to know in order to understand correctly the 3-day count of Yeshua’s entombment. Furthermore, we need to know the day and night hours in Israel at that time in order to know which hours the Gospel writers refer to.
Roman night hours:
divided by four watches from 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. [18:00 - 06:00]
They were simply called first, second, third and fourth watch74,
each watch lasting 3 hours.
Jewish night hours:
also divided by four watches of 3hours each and were called:
Evening, midnight, cockcrow and dawn 75.
These watches were apparently named for the third hour of the watch,
when each watch ended, rather than for the first hour, when each watch began.
I.e., “evening” begins at 6:00 p.m., but ends at 9:00 p.m.; while “midnight” begins at 9:00 p.m. and ends at midnight.
The day time hours began with 6:00 a.m., calling the hour from
6:00 to 7:00 a.m. the first hour.
The last hour of the day was 6:00 p.m., calling the hour from
5:00 to 6:00 p.m. the twelfth hour.
#69 After Pilate had delivered Yeshua up to be crucified, the soldiers did not proceed immediately with the crucifixion, but as shown above, first led Yeshua back into the praetorium a second time, where they called the whole cohort together to amuse themselves with torturing and mocking the Lord. As stated afterwards, this second beating was not another whipping with 39 lashes, but was a beating with fists, the hard bambus reed and being struck with the flat hand. #YIsa. 53:5
#70Exodus 17:1-7; Psalm 78:15-16, 20; 105:41;
#71 Numbers 20:1-8
#72Numbers 20:9-13; Psalm 106:32-33
#73John 19:31; see Promise of a New Creation, b) 1-6, pp. 9-10
#74 Luke 12:38; Matthew 14:25; Mark 6:48
#75Mark 13:35
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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