|
Author
|
Topic: any thoughts?
|
epouraniois
unregistered
|
posted
truly, truly, the creation and purpose of the age times can be summed up in one word, redemption, and forwarded in one word, reconciliation, and all to the praise of His glory
in all of Scripture, there is only one named who is said to utterly perish, and we see the working of his authority in the earth right now, due to his fallen nature, even other fallen angels, the very aristocracy of heaven can see that this age time cannot stand on creature strenght:
Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord
Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence BY THE FAITH OF HIM.
and why was Paul (& John the Baptist) the least of all the saints
every thought about it?
looked at the grammatical irony proferred,
What did you come out to see? a reed (just) blowing in the wind?
presenting their true nature, that those proclaiming the truth as it is written have always been persecuted by those claiming to have already attained as if they are the least of all saints, so Paul is echoing the words of the Lord here...
Act 19:8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Act 19:9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.
Act 19:10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.
Act 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
2Ti 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
why did they now turn away?
because, although it had gone un noticed and unacknowledged, Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it - just as it went un noticed at His death - wherein those who were in the know, were those who held Christ in bonds, and a very few believers, and to Paul was this grace given, a prisoner of Christ Jesus for you gentiles, even finding the very words of Christ as he too, FINISHED his course, being thuroughly furnished
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
IP: Logged | 
|
|
Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
|
posted
I remembered reading in the Gospels that even when Moses was leading his people out of Egypt, there came a time that people were bit by asps. Now in the New Testaments it says .
As Moses lifted up the serpeant on the stick so must the son of Man be lifted up. ( this also is why the medical emblem contains a cross and two serpeant signifing final healing thru Jesus and Judeo-Christian Culture)
Now putting this in perspective, this is a sign and prophetic claim that Jesus , the son of Man is the passover Lamb. All those who looked up received healing and all those who didn't perished.
Jeus died for all signs past, present and future. Salvation and the wages of sin has became completed thru Him. Now within this belief- baptism becomes a cornerstone of this belief.
Remeber when Nicodemus came to Jesus at night and asked what must I do to be born again. Jesus answere "You must be born of water" and "of Spirit" Nicodemus had thought that Jesus spoke of natural birth. But Jesus was speaking beyond anything normal human existence. He was speaking that the born of water was the purification and that of Spirit- becoming spiritually revived thru the atonement of the Passover Lamb.
In fact in the gospel Jesus even said to his disciple "He that believe and is baptized shall be saved and he that believeth not is condemned already.
Salvation has to mean one thing and one thing only. I believe that this salvation has been prophesied in Genesis 3 and the mechanism of salvation completed thru Jesus Christ. In the end, salvation comes to all that endures his atonement.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891
|
posted
OK Brother becauseHElives, you're scaring me.
I understand what you are saying, and I AGREE.
I've never thought about it that way before, but the light of Truth came on.
I always though Passover was totally fullfilled, but like with so much Prophecy, it is multilayered thru time and fullfillment.
Also the scarificial system didn't END with Yahshua's death - IT CHANGED.
(Romans 12:1)
Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
There is no more sacrifice for SIN:
But BECAUSE of that sacrifice, We are now to PUT OURSELVES upon the alter as a living sacrifice.
Seems like I'm on a continuous journey of constantly examining and re-examing Scriture for the deeper Truths, and letting it change me.
But to that I say HALLELU YAH
Better than being stuck in the dead-end rut of tradition.
THANKS for that nugget of Truth my brother.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
epouraniois
unregistered
|
posted
didn't we used to be able to subscribe to a thread? i can't seem to find the option anywhere.
i need some help.
IP: Logged |
|
|
epouraniois
unregistered
|
posted
Good question, I rather think the grammer provides a clue:
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Luk 22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God
...It is finished
Luk 24:41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
Luk 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of a honeycomb.
Luk 24:43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
In my mind, and in the Book, I can find no place where the church is preached to the Jews, only the kingdom as set forth in the OT, which we find in the NT comes down from heaven to the earth - so the kingdom of heaven is one of an earthly people.
Not until after that event in Rome, passing without notice, where the Salvation of God is sent to the gentiles, is there a church preached. Till then, there was no equality, and the gentile was not given that which belonged to Israel, rather, Romans, Gal 2 especially, and others, declare that the Jew was first, and the gentile was made partakers through them (not with them), partakers of the fatness of the root - but not naturally...
But after Acts passes without the at hand kindom fulfillment in their lifetimes, and the mystery made known, is revealed an chosen peoples called to a heavenly citezinship that is not said to return to the earth, but to be a family in the superheavenlies with Him...
Therefore, what we may see today, is how the traditions were mixed together by those who did not see, did not hear, and did not believe that any new good news was preached, or that the Salvation of God was sent to the nations;
Eph 1
the gospel of your salvation...unto the praise of his glory...in my prayers...may give unto you the spirit of wisdom
Undoubtably, others beyond Soloman are given this spirit of wisdom, and the sent one to whom it is given to make known to you-ward, the revelation of the secret which had been hid from ages and from generations, prays that this wisdom is also given to the members which constitute the body of Christ, who also set not their affections upon things on the earth (Eph.1.3. 22-23,3.1-5|8-10; Col.3.1-4)
IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
so then to what is Yeshua reffering to when He said....???????
For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
epouraniois
unregistered
|
posted
I donb't know, I read that the apostles themselves were given commmision and instruction that when they came together (the Jews did this 3 times/yr)
Paul is speaking here to the Jews, in the usual alteration of the Jew first, then to the gentiles, during the Acts:
1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
reflecting:
Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The New Testiment, properly, Covenant.
I know of no covenant with God and gentiles:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we...might have hope.
Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
I'm sorry, but I can just not find a way to take that which was written to Israel of Christ, and all the glorious words we read of the fulfillment of that first type and shadow back in Egypt of the Passover Lamb for anyone but to whom it was expressly written and delivered to without Biblical instructions to do so
To pretend sacrificing Christ again each year afresh according to tradition, imo, is at least questionalbe
IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
"until it is fulfilled in the Kingdom of God."
This points to a still future fulfilment of the Passover, an event which will take place just prior to our entry into the Kingdom of Heaven. I repeat, the Passover Lamb (Yeshua the Messiah) has been slain; it now remains for believers to symbollically apply his blood to their hearts and minds before the midnight of this age when the Destroyer will once again circle the earth on his mission of death!
Believers in the Almighty who, therefore, celebrate the Passover Service on the appointed evening each year will be greatly blessed; for as they eat the unleavened bread and drink the wine (the new covenant emblems of the Saviour's body and blood) they are, in truth, applying the Saviour's life-giving blood to the lintels of their souls..
Put differently, we may say that Yahweh's main purpose in staging such a breathtaking Passover display in ancient Egypt was His way of giving the entire universe a 'prophetic preview' of His earth- encompassing plan to 'pass over' and deliver His people in the closing days of this age. Yes, the LORD God of Israel is in the near future going to personally visit all the nations of the world, and as before, 'pass-over' (pity, spare and deliver) all those who faithfully display the Sign of His Son's blood on the lintels of their minds and the door post of their supporting actions. Thus we can see that ancient Israel's exodus from Egypt was a "prophetic drama," a "living blueprint," a "meaningful model" of a far greater deliverance of Yahweh's people which is scheduled to take place on a world scale in our day. In view of this, believers in the Messiah should beware of failing to keep this memorial service at its appointed time.
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
epouraniois
unregistered
|
posted
pass over us?
I can't get a handle on that exactly, are there some verses you can share where the peoples of the nations are represented as being a part of the passover?
Readily agreeing that Christ Jesus, Lord and Saviour Creator of 'the whole world', 'came to save sinners', and as explained in Romans, the 'just, and the justifier', who 'justifieth the unGodly', but was rather under the impression that the passover was a type and figure given to and preached unto that seperate and called out nation, Israel, that they may know 'the time of thy visitation' - 'and be healed'
???
IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
The Passover prefigures the time when the death angel will Pass Over all who are covered with the blood of the Passover Lamb, Yeshua the Messiah.
Luke 22: 15: And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
No doubt, the Passover Lamb (Yeshua) has already been slain.
But the Passover itself (the event of being spared when the angel of death passes over us) is still future.
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
