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Topic: The scriptures speak ,,,of the rebuilding of the temple
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hardcore
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Member # 4492
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WKUHilltopper:
Which passage does Hagee cite indicating that "Jews don't need Jesus"? Only thing I can think of is "no one comes before the Father except thru Me..."
Not challenging anyone, just curious which passage he is getting this "interpretation".
HFHS posted some things that might help you see where Hagee is coming from in the "Exposing Forum" uner the "Moving Post for Tired Sister" thread.
I tried to move this discussion over there a few days ago, so you could get back to the temple discussion here.
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hardcore
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Member # 4492
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
You say you've watched him enough to know. Well, you watch the Copelands too, and that certainly doesn't buy you any credibility in the discernment department.
1 Cor.12:5 Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged.
![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
Ahhhh, HisGrace.
Ever the master at dodging questions, the truth, and changing the subject.
But I love you too.
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BORN AGAIN
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posted
Will Lucifer-Satan build himself a temple? In Jerusalem? Probably so.
What will the Prince Jeshuah do?
2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming.
Would the Prince live in Lucifer-Satan's temple. Obviously not.
Think woman here. The Prince must make a fresh start and live in an uncontaminated temple. The sanctuary of Ezekiel 48 cannot be the temple that Lucifer-Satan will sit in and declare himself to be God.
(which further proves that Jeshuah-Jesus is God, Terral). Anyway, it may be that the current Israelis will have the opportunity to build a temple between the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aksa mosque on the temple mount, but if so, it is actually Lucifer-Satan behind it, because, after all, unless an Israeli is a Chrisian, the Israelis are part of the kingdom of Lucifer-Satan still.
So it is possible that Lucifer-Satan will use the temple built by the Israelis and go to it in full revealed form and declare that he is the Prince.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WKUHilltopper:
Which passage does Hagee cite indicating that "Jews don't need Jesus"? Only thing I can think of is "no one comes before the Father except thru Me..."
Not challenging anyone, just curious which passage he is getting this "interpretation".
I have been wondering the same thing. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Great post BORN AGAIN. ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
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WKUHilltopper
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posted
Which passage does Hagee cite indicating that "Jews don't need Jesus"? Only thing I can think of is "no one comes before the Father except thru Me..."
Not challenging anyone, just curious which passage he is getting this "interpretation".
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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BORN AGAIN
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posted
the current land of Israel IS difficult to evangelize right now, and Islamic countries are also difficult to evangelize. Into those countries one has to go with the martyr spirit.
Perhaps John Hagee was saying, "Look, I'm not saying the Jews should not be evangelized, but in the meantime we will evangelize the areas that are MORE receptive and where it is NOT PROHIBITED to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ."
If I BORN AGAIN am not mistaken, one becomes a Christian in Saudi Arabia on penalty of death, even death by one's own family for "honor's sake".
So look, how many of US sisters and brothers ARE evangelizing the Israelis and the Jews dispersed among the nations. Right now I AM NOT DOING IT EITHER. How about you? ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif) We shouldn't cast stones at brother John Hagee either; I'm sure he has his hands full already.
Jesus sees us and Jesus loves us. I found a miracle in Jeshuah. BORN AGAIN ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
You say you've watched him enough to know. Well, you watch the Copelands too, and that certainly doesn't buy you any credibility in the discernment department.
1 Cor.12:5 Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged.
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
It is absolutely ridiculous to speculate that John Hagee says that the Jews don't need Jesus - something certainly has been taken out of context. Just because he supports the Jewish nation, which the Bible adamently tells us to do, doesn't mean that he believes they automatically are given a ticket to heaven.
I have watched him enough to know that when he says the following, he means it from the bottom of his heart.
quote:
Salvation -We believe all men are born with a sinful nature and that the work of the Cross was to redeem man from the power of sin. We believe that this salvation is available to all who will receive it.
Be careful what you repeat folks - don't get caught up in vain speculation.
It is not ridiculous, it is not speculation, and nothing has been taken out of context. Several here have attested to the same thing. Why do you continue to argue if you're not even willing to check it out for yourself? If you're wrong, it's okay, and it's okay to admit it; especially among this crowd.
I do not question or judge Hagee's heart, just his doctrine.
You say you've watched him enough to know. Well, you watch the Copelands too, and that certainly doesn't buy you any credibility in the discernment department.
As per usual, when it comes to questioning man's doctrine, you side with the man, and not God's Word. I never have understood it and I still don't.
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WKUHilltopper
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Watcher:
Liberating the Temple Mount
June 1, 2001
"O Lord, in keeping with all your righteous acts, turn away your anger and your wrath from Jerusalem, your city, your holy hill. Our sins and the iniquities of our fathers have made Jerusalem and your people an object of scorn to all those around us.
Now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of your servant. For your sake, O Lord, look with favor on your desolate sanctuary. Give ear, O God, and hear; open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name.
We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy. O Lord, listen! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, hear and act! For your sake, O my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name." (Daniel 9:16-19 NIV)
God's "Holy Mountain" is in Jerusalem. King David purchased the land we now call the Temple Mount as a place to make an altar for the Lord. Later, David's descendants Solomon, and then Zerubabbel, built the House of the Lord on that spot. Both of those Temples were violently destroyed because of the rebellion of the Jewish people against the Lord, as presaged by the prophets.
"I will forsake my house, abandon my inheritance; I will give the one I love into the hands of her enemies. My inheritance has become to me like a lion in the forest. She roars at me; therefore I hate her." (Jeremiah 12:7-8 NIV)
After the latter destruction, Jerusalem was "plowed like a field" in AD 135 by the Romans to humiliate the Jews and eradicate any semblance of a city. Several hundred years later, the Dome of the Rock (AD 691) and the Al Aqsa mosque (AD 705) were built on the Temple Mount by the Muslims. Since that time, these structures have been an illicit indignity on the site which the Lord designated as "the place I have chosen for my Name to dwell."
It is no coincidence that rival structures are standing on this place. The spiritual being who has evil aspirations to God's throne is the architect behind this. He wants to keep control of that location so that the Lord's temple cannot be rebuilt. Therefore, he instigated followers of one of his fabricated gods to designate it as one of their "holy places."
In a defiant affront to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the Dome of the Rock is replete with blasphemous inscriptions from the Koran. For example, "In the name of Allah the Merciful and Compassionate. There is no God but Allah alone. Praise be to Allah who hath not taken to himself offspring. To Him there has never been any person in the sovereignty. Mohammed is the messenger of Allah, may God pray upon Him and accept his intercession. Praise be God who has not taken unto himself a son and who has no partner in sovereignty nor has He any protector on account of weakness."
These profane structures are a continuous challenge to the sovereignty of the true God. However, despite all the intentions of the Muslims, those structures will not stay there. We know this because that place will once again play a central role in Israel. At least one more Temple of the Lord, and perhaps two, will be built again on that site. The Bible gives abundant witness to what will eventually happen there: the Son of David, Jesus, King of Israel, will rule the world from Mount Zion, the throne of the Lord. The Lord will suddenly come to His House and take up the residence that is His.
"The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel. 'Then you will know that I, the LORD your God, dwell in Zion, my holy hill. Jerusalem will be holy; never again will foreigners invade her.'" (Joel 3:16-17 NIV)
Therefore, before this happens, those other vexing buildings have to come down. And indeed they will. Are there any Bible prophecies about this? Yes.
One is found in the book of Obadiah. It speaks about an end-times liberation of the Temple Mount. The overall topic of the book of Obadiah is the conflict between Israel and Edom (Esau). The last seven verses of the book are about the end-times. In the prophecy we will examine, we see something called "Mount Esau" up on Mount Zion. This is the symbolic terminology the prophet uses to describe the Islamic structures on the Temple Mount.
If we compare several translations of verse 21, the meaning readily becomes apparent:
"For liberators shall march up on Mount Zion to wreak judgment on Mount Esau, and dominion shall be the Lord's." (JPS)
"And saviors will ascend Mount Zion to judge the Mountain of Esau, and the kingdom will be Hashem's" (Stone)
"Powerful warriors will go up on Mount Zion....." (NCV)
"The deliverers will ascend Mount Zion to judge the mountain of Esau, and the kingdom will be the LORD'S." (NASB)
Now the picture is clear. Esau represents the enemies of the true God. "Mount Esau" is an entity on the Temple Mount that will be judged. A group of deliverers will go up to the Temple Mount and eradicate the offending edifices. Those liberators will condemn the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa mosque, and God's Holy Hill will be cleared for the rebuilding of the House of the Lord.
Interesting post, Watcher. Thanks for it. That one part "Praise be God who has not taken unto himself a son and who has no partner in sovereignty nor has He any protector on account of weakness..." is shocking. Not that I didn't know this is what they believed, only that they've got it publicly plastered everywhere. We need to pray for these folks for wisdom and courage.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
This was printed in Charisma Magazine April 2004 from Hagee's mouth - you can read the Magazine archives yourself:
http://www.charismamag.com/a.php?ArticleID=8674
quote:
Hagee says his views are based on chapters nine through 11 of Paul's letter to the Romans. "Paul says the Jewish people have been blinded to the identity of Jesus by the hand of God for the benefit of the Gentiles, and they remain blinded to this day," says Hagee, who believes in the long run that "all Israel will be saved."
Thus, he believes Christians have no duty to evangelize Jews but that "Gentiles are commanded to treat Jewish people lovingly until the revelation of Jesus to them." Hagee's study leads him to conclude that this commandment has been disobeyed for centuries by Christians, some of whom fanned the flames of anti-Semitism.
While Hagee doesn't think evangelizing Jews is an essential part of the Christian life, he believes that loving them is, and he publicly proclaims that belief in typically black-and-white terms.
He declares: "It is not possible to say, 'I am a Christian,' and not love the Jewish people."
No duty to evangelize the jew??
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Hello people in this age there is no partition between Jew and Gentile. Whosoever shall believe shall be saved!!!!!!!
We dont ask who will be saved and who will not!
Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
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Thunderz7
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posted
We hear people talk of the second temple;
well, Solomon's Temple was the first one;
the second came with Ezra, Nehemiah and Zerubbabel.
The Tabernacle of David has a scriptural promise of restoration.
David's tabernacle was on Mt. Zion.
The restoration promise rest with Zion.
Lift up your eyes unto the hills from which comes your help;
your help comes from the LORD.
HIS promise is for/from Zion.
If you look to Moriah you look to the wrong hill.
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
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It is absolutely ridiculous to speculate that John Hagee says that the Jews don't need Jesus - something certainly has been taken out of context. Just because he supports the Jewish nation, which the Bible adamently tells us to do, doesn't mean that he believes they automatically are given a ticket to heaven.
I have watched him enough to know that when he says the following, he means it from the bottom of his heart.
quote:
Salvation -We believe all men are born with a sinful nature and that the work of the Cross was to redeem man from the power of sin. We believe that this salvation is available to all who will receive it.
Be careful what you repeat folks - don't get caught up in vain speculation.
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hardcore
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Hey HisGrace,
I should have acknowledged that I do agree with you about the "old lady picture" on the internet. Those kinds of things are ridiculous.
Everything on the internet is not true. However, there is a lot of truth to be found.
You can't dismiss everything that comes from the net as being false just because some things are. You seem to do that a lot.
Either extreme (believing all or nothing) is wrong. Balance in all things.
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Watcher
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Member # 3589
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posted
Liberating the Temple Mount
June 1, 2001
"O Lord, in keeping with all your righteous acts, turn away your anger and your wrath from Jerusalem, your city, your holy hill. Our sins and the iniquities of our fathers have made Jerusalem and your people an object of scorn to all those around us.
Now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of your servant. For your sake, O Lord, look with favor on your desolate sanctuary. Give ear, O God, and hear; open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name.
We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy. O Lord, listen! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, hear and act! For your sake, O my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name." (Daniel 9:16-19 NIV)
God's "Holy Mountain" is in Jerusalem. King David purchased the land we now call the Temple Mount as a place to make an altar for the Lord. Later, David's descendants Solomon, and then Zerubabbel, built the House of the Lord on that spot. Both of those Temples were violently destroyed because of the rebellion of the Jewish people against the Lord, as presaged by the prophets.
"I will forsake my house, abandon my inheritance; I will give the one I love into the hands of her enemies. My inheritance has become to me like a lion in the forest. She roars at me; therefore I hate her." (Jeremiah 12:7-8 NIV)
After the latter destruction, Jerusalem was "plowed like a field" in AD 135 by the Romans to humiliate the Jews and eradicate any semblance of a city. Several hundred years later, the Dome of the Rock (AD 691) and the Al Aqsa mosque (AD 705) were built on the Temple Mount by the Muslims. Since that time, these structures have been an illicit indignity on the site which the Lord designated as "the place I have chosen for my Name to dwell."
It is no coincidence that rival structures are standing on this place. The spiritual being who has evil aspirations to God's throne is the architect behind this. He wants to keep control of that location so that the Lord's temple cannot be rebuilt. Therefore, he instigated followers of one of his fabricated gods to designate it as one of their "holy places."
In a defiant affront to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the Dome of the Rock is replete with blasphemous inscriptions from the Koran. For example, "In the name of Allah the Merciful and Compassionate. There is no God but Allah alone. Praise be to Allah who hath not taken to himself offspring. To Him there has never been any person in the sovereignty. Mohammed is the messenger of Allah, may God pray upon Him and accept his intercession. Praise be God who has not taken unto himself a son and who has no partner in sovereignty nor has He any protector on account of weakness."
These profane structures are a continuous challenge to the sovereignty of the true God. However, despite all the intentions of the Muslims, those structures will not stay there. We know this because that place will once again play a central role in Israel. At least one more Temple of the Lord, and perhaps two, will be built again on that site. The Bible gives abundant witness to what will eventually happen there: the Son of David, Jesus, King of Israel, will rule the world from Mount Zion, the throne of the Lord. The Lord will suddenly come to His House and take up the residence that is His.
"The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel. 'Then you will know that I, the LORD your God, dwell in Zion, my holy hill. Jerusalem will be holy; never again will foreigners invade her.'" (Joel 3:16-17 NIV)
Therefore, before this happens, those other vexing buildings have to come down. And indeed they will. Are there any Bible prophecies about this? Yes.
One is found in the book of Obadiah. It speaks about an end-times liberation of the Temple Mount. The overall topic of the book of Obadiah is the conflict between Israel and Edom (Esau). The last seven verses of the book are about the end-times. In the prophecy we will examine, we see something called "Mount Esau" up on Mount Zion. This is the symbolic terminology the prophet uses to describe the Islamic structures on the Temple Mount.
If we compare several translations of verse 21, the meaning readily becomes apparent:
"For liberators shall march up on Mount Zion to wreak judgment on Mount Esau, and dominion shall be the Lord's." (JPS)
"And saviors will ascend Mount Zion to judge the Mountain of Esau, and the kingdom will be Hashem's" (Stone)
"Powerful warriors will go up on Mount Zion....." (NCV)
"The deliverers will ascend Mount Zion to judge the mountain of Esau, and the kingdom will be the LORD'S." (NASB)
Now the picture is clear. Esau represents the enemies of the true God. "Mount Esau" is an entity on the Temple Mount that will be judged. A group of deliverers will go up to the Temple Mount and eradicate the offending edifices. Those liberators will condemn the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa mosque, and God's Holy Hill will be cleared for the rebuilding of the House of the Lord.
--------------------
Watcher
Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house. He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Proverbs 17:13,15
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hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
![[pound]](graemlins/pound.gif)
Sorry BORN AGAIN - every once in awhile I get really mad at the devil.
I was just thinking. that probably if we look hard enough we could find a site that has filled in the blanks with John Hagee's name to the above 'thing.'
I challenge anyone here to find it.I can see it all now -
"The report also reveals that Charismatic healer, John Hagee, is involved in this religio-political initiative and working closely with an Anglican Templar/Jesuit organization that promotes the ordination of homosexuals."
~Coming to mind is the time someone on this Board once put a site on with a digitally -enchance weird-looking cackling woman, front and centre, of a charismatic meeting of one of our 'beloved' TV evangelists. Going to different sites of other evangelists you could find this same woman. Busy lady - hope her air flight was sponsored by the 'millions' going into their 'bottomless coffers.'
HisGrace,
Hagee's views are common knowledge. His own books reveal his beliefs. He wrote them for goodness sakes. This has nothing to do with the internet.
Please quit being so naive. If you insist on continuing to live in your "Mary Poppins" world, that's your prerogative, but don't continually chastise the rest of us who educate ourselves and actually care about the truth.
HFHS was right about stifling discussion and censoring. epouraniois removed his post. You just proved her point beautifully. Nicely done.
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
Originally posted by ToBeContinued:
John Hagee is presently preaching a series on the future of Israel. There is an Arabic inscription on top of the Dome of the Rock and apparently it says, "God does not have a son."
I have to learn not to simply name drop. The point of this statement wasn't about John Hagee; it was about the inscription on the Dome, and it exploded off into an entirely different direction.
I could have made this statement without using his name and now deeply regret it. My Bad ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by epouraniois:
I'll remove it then, no problem at all. Please do research who this person is hanging out with though. It's really tragic, but at least the Bible warns us of the setting up of the kingdom of the evil (one).
Also, I didn't just go and dig this up, I aready had become aware of it, having studied the symbos in the masonic temple these people frequent in Jerusalem and so forth...
Thanks epouraniois and God Bless. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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HisGrace
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Sorry BORN AGAIN - every once in awhile I get really mad at the devil.
I was just thinking. that probably if we look hard enough we could find a site that has filled in the blanks with John Hagee's name to the above 'thing.'
I challenge anyone here to find it.I can see it all now -
"The report also reveals that Charismatic healer, John Hagee, is involved in this religio-political initiative and working closely with an Anglican Templar/Jesuit organization that promotes the ordination of homosexuals."
~Coming to mind is the time someone on this Board once put a site on with a digitally -enchance weird-looking cackling woman, front and centre, of a charismatic meeting of one of our 'beloved' TV evangelists. Going to different sites of other evangelists you could find this same woman. Busy lady - hope her air flight was sponsored by the 'millions' going into their 'bottomless coffers.'
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BORN AGAIN
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this is not going to be pretty. 
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by epouraniois:
The following report confirms our suspicions that the Knights Templar are conducting the present crusade in the Middle East to establish a base for their planned invasion of Israel. These modern-day knights are also forming a religious coalition to mollify Israel with a phony peace treaty and to rebuild the Temple of Solomon, from which venue the Bible states the Antichrist will rule over a Masonic one-world religion and government. The report also reveals that Charismatic healer, Benny Hinn, is involved in this religio-political initiative and working closely with an Anglican Templar/Jesuit organization that promotes the ordination of homosexuals.
At the risk of being banned, please don't contaminate the Bible Study forum with such garbage. There is a Pharisee section over on the 'Exposing' forum that will glady accept this National Enquirer type of material.
As you will notice, I haven't dealt with my 'getting tired' issue yet. Now it has escalated to 'fed up.' ![[mad2]](graemlins/mad2.gif)
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epouraniois
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I'll remove it then, no problem at all. Please do research who this person is hanging out with though. It's really tragic, but at least the Bible warns us of the setting up of the kingdom of the evil (one).
Also, I didn't just go and dig this up, I aready had become aware of it, having studied the symbos in the masonic temple these people frequent in Jerusalem and so forth...
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epouraniois
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G2647
καταλύω
kataluō
kat-al-oo'-o
From G2596 and G3089; to loosen down (disintegrate), that is, (by implication) to demolish (literally or figuratively); specifically (compare G2646) to halt for the night: - destroy, dissolve, be guest, lodge, come to nought, overthrow, throw down.
akin to 'foundation', as in, before the foundation, or, overthrow, always pertains to judgment, from:
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
And this did happen at the end of an age time, (tree hewn down - Isa 10:33; Eze 15:2-4; Dan 4:14, Dan 4:23; Mat 3:10, Mat 7:19; Luk 3:9)of which the dispensation of the mystery was then presented to the chosen vessel, Paul the apostle, wherein he attained unto the ministry called 'the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery'
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
It does indeed get tiring having to continually remind Christians that God's Word is the Truth, and that it's important, and that it's more important than tv evangelists.
Yes indeed and the Word is more important than (www.iam.the.world's.greatest.authority.on.heresy.even.though.i.know.diddly.squat.
about.the.bible.com}
Posts and replies moved to the "Exposing" forum.
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
I often agree with sister HisGrace, but I also agree with you in this one case about the part that for example, I {BORN AGAIN} do not need ANY specialized forum for anything. I'll talk to you you anytime anywhere. I suppose it might have been tiring to Paul to spend a day and a half in the drink, but then I never tire of hearing where we can do better. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
You sure make me smile sometimes BA. I did move this particular discussion over to the "Exposing" forum.
Regarding Hinn. If you can come up with a medically verifiable healing, I'll be impressed. No one else has been able to.
I'm afraid Mr. Hinn is a sham my friend, for more than one reason - the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
It does indeed get tiring having to continually remind Christians that God's Word is the Truth, and that it's important, and that it's more important than tv evangelists.
Yes indeed and the Word is more important than (www.iam.the.world's.greatest.authority.on.heresy.even.though.i.know.diddly.squat.
about.the.bible.com}
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BORN AGAIN
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dear sister hardcore, you write to sister HisGrace {bold by BORN AGAIN}: quote:
Guess you got it all figured out then. And thanks for the reminder about the forum. I do need to keep in mind how uncomfortable some people are with facing the truth. You're right. It does indeed get tiring having to continually remind Christians that God's Word is the Truth, and that it's important, and that it's more important than tv evangelists.
Touché on the bolded part.
remembering that we are talking about and also to accepted sons and daughters in the Beloved, fully adopted sons and daughters of the Great King of Israel, then you further say quote:
Hope I haven't completely worn you out with too much reality.
I often agree with sister HisGrace, but I also agree with you in this one case about the part that for example, I {BORN AGAIN} do not need ANY specialized forum for anything. I'll talk to you you anytime anywhere. I suppose it might have been tiring to Paul to spend a day and a half in the drink, but then I never tire of hearing where we can do better.
Adopted sister hardcore says to adopted sister HisGrace: quote:
By the way; anybody can say anything on a website. Mission Statements aren't gospel. What they don't say can be more enlightening in some cases than what they do say.
I'm sure Joel Osteen's statement probably doesn't mention that he doesn't believe in preaching sin. And I'll bet Rick Warren's statement doesn't mention anything about all the new age unscriptural garbage in his books. Do you think Benny Hinn mentions anything about his false prophecies and fake healings in his statement?
I like the ones about Joel O. and Rick W., but fake healings with Benny Hinn?
sister hardcore, update me if I'm wrong, but I have watched adopted brother Benny Hinn many times and if any or many! are fake healings, brother Benny has got an "enormous actor bill to pay each month".
Hundreds of different people have walked up on that stage and "acted it out real good with Benny Hinn"? sister hardcore, perhaps you need to check your miracle reality like sister HisGrace needs to check her "getting tired of" reality?
Lord, remember us on CBBS when You come into Your kingdom"; I am BORN AGAIN in the USA by the of Lord God Jeshuah of Nazareth/born in Bethlehem of Judah (Micah 5:2) ("...I'm just fishin'..." )
Wake. Up. Church. Apostacy. Here. Take. Off. Blinders.
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hardcore
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Originally posted by HisGrace:
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Originally posted by hardcore:
Copying and pasting things from his website doesn't change the facts. There are many Christian preachers teaching a false gospel these days, and they all have websites.
What I used to notice when I was in the 'Exposing' forum, was that from the many websites that were copied and pasted re these TV preachers, there wouldn't be anything showing where these people stood biblically, if indeed they were biblical scholars. It is nice to have a Mission Statement, and I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe that Rev. Hagee strays from those core beliefs given.
Let's keep in mind that this is not an Exposing forum. It gets a little tiring after awhile.
Guess you got it all figured out then. And thanks for the reminder about the forum. I do need to keep in mind how uncomfortable some people are with facing the truth. You're right. It does indeed get tiring having to continually remind Christians that God's Word is the Truth, and that it's important, and that it's more important than tv evangelists.
Hope I haven't completely worn you out with too much reality.
By the way; anybody can say anything on a website. Mission Statements aren't gospel. What they don't say can be more enlightening in some cases than what they do say.
I'm sure Joel Osteen's statement probably doesn't mention that he doesn't believe in preaching sin. And I'll bet Rick Warren's statement doesn't mention anything about all the new age unscriptural garbage in his books. Do you think Benny Hinn mentions anything about his false prophecies and fake healings in his statement?
Wake. Up. Church. Apostacy. Here. Take. Off. Blinders.
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HisGrace
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Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
HisGrace, personally I do not see much diff between "demolished" and "destroyed" the temple.
Agreed.
From HIsGrace "The Muslims took over the land on which the original temple was built. They demolished the temple and built a mosque on the original Temple Mount."
Wow. I just re-read the above quote and what I really meant was that the Muslims built a mosque on the Temple Mount on which the original destroyed(demolished) temple once stood.
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BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace, personally I do not see much diff between "demolished" and "destroyed" the temple.
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epouraniois
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Originally posted by HisGrace:
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Originally posted by epouraniois:
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HIsGrace
The Muslims took over the land on which the original temple was built. They demolished the temple and built a mosque on the original Temple Mount.
I thought the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 A.D.?
Notice that I didn't say that they destroyed the temple - they took over the land where the temple had previously been built.
Just feel free to pick me up when I fall down, I need the help. Thank you.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
Copying and pasting things from his website doesn't change the facts. There are many Christian preachers teaching a false gospel these days, and they all have websites.
What I used to notice when I was in the 'Exposing' forum, was that from the many websites that were copied and pasted re these TV preachers, there wouldn't be anything showing where these people stood biblically, if indeed they were biblical scholars. It is nice to have a Mission Statement, and I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe that Rev. Hagee strays from those core beliefs given.
Let's keep in mind that this is not an Exposing forum. It gets a little tiring after awhile.
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
If you believe in not watching Pastor Hagee, and I haven't watched him enough to comment on whether or not he tries to convert the Jews, how can we listen to hearsay?
It is not hearsay, it is common knowledge that he does not believe Jews need Jesus for salvation. It is on record in many places, including his own books.
quote:
HisGrace:
All I know is that he preaches a fire and brimstone type of message.
Yes. He does. And I'm not trying to imply that everything he preaches is wrong. I simply pointed out one very serious issue that he is wrong on. Since you mentioned a series he was doing on Israel, I thought I'd point it out. If he's wrong about something so basic as salvation, then in my mind, it makes anything he says suspect and worth a closer look.
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HisGrace:
JHMinistries Beliefs:
The Lord Jesus Christ -We believe in the deity of Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of God. We believe in His substitutionary death for all men, His resurrection, and His eventual return to judge the world.
Salvation -We believe all men are born with a sinful nature and that the work of the Cross was to redeem man from the power of sin. We believe that this salvation is available to all who will receive it.
The Holy Spirit-We believe in the existence of the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Trinity and in His interaction with man. We believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit as manifested by the fruit and the gifts of the Spirit.
Evangelism -We believe that evangelism is the obligation of every follower of Jesus Christ. The Lord commands us to go out and make disciples of all the earth. We believe that each person is first responsible to evangelism in their own family as the Holy Spirit leads them and gives them the ability.
Copying and pasting things from his website doesn't change the facts. There are many Christian preachers teaching a false gospel these days, and they all have websites.
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BORN AGAIN
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Another possible location for the first and second temples is south of and inbetween the Dome of the Rock and the el Aksa Mosque.
Critical Issues in Locating the Temple Site:
When one compiles all the known factors into a three-dimensional computer model of the Temple Mount area, several problems emerge:
1. Where was the Antonia Fortress?
Ancient Jerusalem was protected on the east, south, and west by valleys. The Antonia Fortress was located to the north to protect the weaker north side of the city. (In fact, it was from the north that Titus Vespasian breached the walls in his famous attack in 70 C.E.)
According to ancient sources, the fortress was on a hill about 25 meters high. The current El Omriah school building is on a rock only 5 meters high. From many stratographic and other considerations it is doubted by some experts that his was the actual location of the Antonia Fortress. Tuvia Sagiv's papers discuss the critical issue of the actual location of the Fortress Antonia, which he believes was well to the south, perhaps at the location of the Dome of the Rock.
2. The Location of the Ancient North Moat (the Fosse)
Traditional renderings show a deep, filled-in fosse (moat), north of the Temple Mount, lying south of the Antonia Fortress, between the fortress and the Temple Mount.
According to ancient sources, however, the Antonia Fortress and the Temple Mount were adjacent to each other. The moat should be to the north of the Tower for protection, placing the Antonia about where the Dome of the Rock stands today! Asher Kaufman's location of the Temples places the moat immediately to the North of the spot where the Temples stood. In fact, Dan Bahat jokes that Kaufman's temple would "fall into the moat!"
3. The Hulda Gates
The Hulda Gates were the primary access to the Temple area from the south. According to the Mishna, the difference in heights between the Hulda Gates and the Holy of the Holies was approximately 10 meters, with about 39 m between the entrance to the Temple mount and the level of the Temple itself. The traditional Dome of the Rock proposals require 20 meters and 80 m separations.
The current assumptions regarding Hulda Gate tunnels are not mentioned in the ancient sources. The discrepancies suggest a lower, and therefore, more southerly, location. Tuvia Sagiv in his essays discusses the problem of the Southern Gates and their elevation with respect to the Temples.
4. The View from the North
Josephus Flavius describes the fact that the Bizita Hill (Golgotha?) was located north of the Temple Mount and obscured the view of the Temple from the north.
If the Temple stood at the Dome of the Rock, it would be visible from as far away as the town of Ramallah. In order to obscure the view from the north, it would have to be at a lower level, that is, to the south.
5. King Herod Agrippa's View of the Temple from the West
Josephus, in The Jewish Wars, describes the fact that King Herod Agrippa could look out from his Hasmonean Palace (at or near the present Citadel at the Jaffa Gate), and view the sacrifices at the Azarah, at the altar of the Second Temple. This incensed the Jews, who then built a wall extending the height of the western rear wall of the Temple proper in order to block the view. Roman soldiers, patrolling the western threshold - thus unable to view the Azarah - demanded that the wall be demolished. The Jews objected, and even obtained the consent of Emperor Nero to leave the wall in place.
If the Temple were at the location of the Dome of the Rock, it would have required a Palace tower height of 75 meters to view into the Azarah. There never was a building of such a height in Jerusalem. This all implies a lower, more southern location of the Temple.
6. The Jerusalem Water Aqueduct from the Judean Hills
The water canals that supplied Jerusalem began in the area of the Hebron mountains, passed through the Solomon's Pools near Bethlehem, and flowed to Jerusalem. The lowest canal reached the Temple Mount through the Jewish Quarter and the Wilson Bridge. According to the ancient authorities, the water conduit supplied water to the High Priests' mikveh (ritual bath) located above the Water Gate, and it also supplied water for the rinsing of the blood off the Azarah. Portions of this aqueduct are plainly visible to this day.
"Living water," that is, fresh, flowing water, not water from a cistern, was required for the ritual bath (mikveh) used by the temple priests, and for the washings of the temple in connection with the sacrifices.
A survey of the level of the aqueduct reveals that if the Temple had been located at the same elevation as the present Dome of the Rock shrine, the aqueduct would be over 20 meters too low to serve either the Azarah or the Water Gate. From this survey, it appears that the Temple must have been 20 meters lower, and, thus, to the south.
7. Electronic Measurements
Preliminary ground penetrating radar probes by Tuvia Sagiv, while not conclusive, suggest vaults, perhaps "kippim" (rabbinical arches), and other structures which one would expect below the Temple, to the south. The northern sites are virtually solid rock.
More recently Sagiv has conducted thermal-infrared scanning of the walls and the platform. During the day the sun heats the Temple Mount uniformly, but at night the cooling (by conduction and radiation) is not uniform, thus revealing subsurface anomalies. In the images shown below, "hotter" areas are bright indicating massive foundations beneath the paving stones. The radar and IR research is discussed in Sagiv's third paper, Penetrating Insights Into the Temple Mount.
{picture} Nighttime Thermal Infrared Imagery of the Dome of the Rock
These black-and-white images taken from the original false-color IR scanner images clearly reveal a pentagonal ancient foundation under the Dome. These results are discussed by Tuvia Sagiv in his papers.
8. Research into Later Roman Temple Architecture
After the Bar Kochba revolt in 132 C.E., the Romans leveled the entire city of Jerusalem and a built a Roman city, Aelia Capitolina, on the ruins. To obliterate any Jewish presence on the Temple Mount, they built a temple to Jupiter on the site.
A similar temple, built by the same builder at about the same time, has been discovered at Baalbek, Lebanon.
The Roman architectural practices of the time featured a rectangular basilica, and a polygon structure opposite a courtyard. When this architecture is overlaid on the Temple Mount, it matches the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock exactly.
This unique architectural similarity suggests that the Roman Temple to Jupiter may have been on this very site, converted for Christian purposes in the 4th Century, and then served as the foundation for the present Moslem structures, the Al Aqsa Mosque an the Dome of the Rock, which were built in the 7th Century.
{picture} The Roman Temple at Baalbek, Lebanon
Jerome's commentary on Isaiah mentions an equestrian statue of the Emperor Hadrian being placed directly over the site of the Holy of the Holies. If the Baalbek architecture is the correct model, this would place the Holy of the Holies somewhere beneath the present El Kas foundation.
When a map of the Baalbek Temple is overlaid on the present structures of the Temple Mount a striking similarity can be seen:
Baalbek Temple plan overlaid on the Temple Mount
http://www.templemount.org/theories.html#anchor408725
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace
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Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
The Dome of the Rock can be left where it is and a Jewish temple can be built over the threshingfloor or Ornan north-northwest of it, under the Dome of the Spirits.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
That whole area is a covenant promise to the Jewish people.
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ToBeContinued writes quote:
In 687 The Muslims built the Dome of the Rock on the location of the Jewish Temple.
Actually, the Dome of the Rock is built over the summit of mount Moriah, over the as-Sakhra (sp??) summit rock.
David bought the threshingfloor from Ornan. Threshingfloors are flat on which the wheat can be winnowed. This would be impossible on the as-
Sakhra summit rock.
However, there IS a flat stone on the temple mount under the Dome of the Spirits (also called the Dome of the Tablets) which for some reason was left uncovered by the large paving stones of the temple mount.
This flat stone under the Dome of the Spirits is almost certainly the threshingfloor of Ornan, and its location to the north-northwest of the Dome of the Rock would make it possible to leave the Dome of the Rocke where it is.
The Devil built the Dome of the Rock over the wrong place, the LORD presumably not allowing Lucifer to build his house over the threshingfloor which once was part of the LORD's temple.
quote:
Once the “Dome of the Rock” is removed, only then could a Jewish Temple be built.
The Dome of the Rock can be left where it is and a Jewish temple can be built over the threshingfloor or Ornan north-northwest of it, under the Dome of the Spirits.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace
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Originally posted by hardcore:
Hi HisGrace ....
Please keep your discernment antenna on high alert if watching or listening to Hagee; particularly when he's discussing Israel and the Jews (one of his favorite topics).
Hagee has received many awards from Jewish organizations and is considered their friend in combatting anti-semitism - a worthy cause I will agree.
But .....
Why are they not put off by his Christian evangelism?
Because he doesn't share Jesus with them. He does not believe that Jews need Jesus for salvation.
If you believe in not watching Pastor Hagee, and I haven't watched him enough to comment on whether or not he tries to convert the Jews, how can we listen to hearsay?
All I know is that he preaches a fire and brimstone type of message.
JHMinistries Beliefs:
The Lord Jesus Christ -We believe in the deity of Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of God. We believe in His substitutionary death for all men, His resurrection, and His eventual return to judge the world.
Salvation -We believe all men are born with a sinful nature and that the work of the Cross was to redeem man from the power of sin. We believe that this salvation is available to all who will receive it.
The Holy Spirit-We believe in the existence of the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Trinity and in His interaction with man. We believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit as manifested by the fruit and the gifts of the Spirit.
Evangelism -We believe that evangelism is the obligation of every follower of Jesus Christ. The Lord commands us to go out and make disciples of all the earth. We believe that each person is first responsible to evangelism in their own family as the Holy Spirit leads them and gives them the ability.
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yahsway
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I agree with hardcore. I saw a Jewish man the other day on skyangel, a believer in Jesus/Yeshua who said the worst thing we as christians could ever do is withhold the gospel message of Yeshua the Messiah from the Jews.
For God so loved "the whole world" that He sent His only begotten Son, that "whosoever believes" on Him shall be saved.
The whole world includes the Jews, and Whosoever also would include the Jews.
Our God is no respector of persons. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He does not change. Why would any believer in Jesus not preach the gospel of salvation thru Jesus the Christ to any particular group of peoples.
For God is still calling out peoples from every tribe, tongue and nation. ALL are welcome at His table. Shalom
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
quote:
Originally posted by ToBeContinued:
Once the “Dome of the Rock” is removed, only then could a Jewish Temple be built.
For the Dome of the Rock to be removed a significant event must take place. This event will pit the Islamic world against Israel.
Israel will vanquish the armies of Islam in a coming battle foretold in the Bible
John Hagee is presently preaching a series on the future of Israel. There is an Arabic inscription on top of the Dome of the Rock and apparently it says, "God does not have a son."
Hi HisGrace ....
Please keep your discernment antenna on high alert if watching or listening to Hagee; particularly when he's discussing Israel and the Jews (one of his favorite topics).
Hagee has received many awards from Jewish organizations and is considered their friend in combatting anti-semitism - a worthy cause I will agree.
But .....
Why are they not put off by his Christian evangelism?
Because he doesn't share Jesus with them. He does not believe that Jews need Jesus for salvation.
P.S. He also dabbles in prosperity teaching and postive confession; neither of which is scripturally sound either.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by ToBeContinued:
Once the “Dome of the Rock” is removed, only then could a Jewish Temple be built.
For the Dome of the Rock to be removed a significant event must take place. This event will pit the Islamic world against Israel.
Israel will vanquish the armies of Islam in a coming battle foretold in the Bible
John Hagee is presently preaching a series on the future of Israel. There is an Arabic inscription on top of the Dome of the Rock and apparently it says, "God does not have a son."
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ToBeContinued
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27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."
Background
The end of the 69th week occurred when the “Messiah” was “cut off”. Following the death of the Messiah the “People of a prince who is to come” will destroy the city of Jerusalem and the Temple. Written about 538 B.C., Daniel’s words were fulfilled in 70 AD, when the Roman armies of Titus destroyed Jerusalem. At the end of the siege the Jewish Temple was destroyed. Every stone from this temple was throne to the ground. Josephus, the Jewish historian reported that over 1,000,000 Jews were killed following the capture of the city of Jerusalem.
In Rome the Arch of Titus was constructed to recognize the victorious Rome over the Jews. On the Arch of Titus the Roman soldiers are pictured carrying the Temple treasures to the Rome. The Jewish nation was scattered throughout the Roman empire following the rebellion.
From the destruction of Temple until today the Temple Mount has been vacant of a Jewish Temple. At the start of the 70th week of Daniel we see a 7-year agreement being made between the “Prince who is come”, and “Many” and Israel. This agreement concerns the future Jewish Temple, the Third Temple. The agreement is broken at the midpoint, 3 ˝ years, causing the Temple sacrifice to cease.
There are significant problems in building a new Temple. The destruction of the earlier one by the Romans in 70 A.D. is documented on the Arch of Titus. In A.D. 638 The Muslim armies conquered the land of Israel from the Byzantine Empire. In 687 The Muslims built the Dome of the Rock on the location of the Jewish Temple. Today Islam is over 20% of the earth’s population. Muslims view the “Dome of the Rock” as the 3rd most holy site to Islam. From the top of Mt. Moriah, Muslims believe Mohammed ascended into Heaven. The Muslim building was built on the Jewish site to demonstrate Islam as the final religion and, to honor Mohammed supposed ascension. This creates a problem for the world.
Israel is only permitted to construct a Temple on the top of Mt. Moriah. David purchased the location at God’s instruction.
Now Solomon began to build the house of the Lord at Jerusalem on Mount Moriah, where the Lord had appeared to his father David, at the place that David had prepared on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.
2 Chronicles 3:1
This puts Israel’s future Temple at odds with the Islamic world. Islam would never accept the building of a Jewish Temple over this location. Orthodox Judaism, the ones in favor of building a Temple would not accept the “Dome of the Rock”. So either Islam defeats the Jews or Israel defeats Islam. The bible tells us that Israel will build the Temple.
Once the “Dome of the Rock” is removed, only then could a Jewish Temple be built.
For the Dome of the Rock to be removed a significant event must take place. This event will pit the Islamic world against Israel.
Israel will vanquish the armies of Islam in a coming battle foretold in the Bible
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Miguel
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Let me see if I can put my thoughts together here; the view here is that a 3rd temple most be build by the time the Lord Jesus Christ come to reign from that 3rd temple for a 1,000 yrs?
I seem not to find a direction in the word of God that indicates a physical 3rd temple!
1st Temple - 2Ch 3:1 Then Solomon began to build the house of the LORD at Jerusalem in mount Moriah, where the LORD appeared unto David his father, in the place that David had prepared in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.
(Mic 3:12 Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.)
2nd Temple - Ezr 6:1 Then Darius the king made a decree, and search was made in the house of the rolls, where the treasures were laid up in Babylon.
Ezr 6:2 And there was found at Achmetha, in the palace that is in the province of the Medes, a roll, and therein was a record thus written:
Ezr 6:3 In the first year of Cyrus the king the same Cyrus the king made a decree concerning the house of God at Jerusalem, Let the house be builded, the place where they offered sacrifices, and let the foundations thereof be strongly laid; the height thereof threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof threescore cubits;
Ezr 6:4 With three rows of great stones, and a row of new timber: and let the expenses be given out of the king's house:
Ezr 6:5 And also let the golden and silver vessels of the house of God, which Nebuchadnezzar took forth out of the temple which is at Jerusalem, and brought unto Babylon, be restored, and brought again unto the temple which is at Jerusalem, every one to his place, and place them in the house of God.
Ezr 6:6 Now therefore, Tatnai, governor beyond the river, Shetharboznai, and your companions the Apharsachites, which are beyond the river, be ye far from thence:
Ezr 6:7 Let the work of this house of God alone; let the governor of the Jews and the elders of the Jews build this house of God in his place.
Ezr 6:8 Moreover I make a decree what ye shall do to the elders of these Jews for the building of this house of God: that of the king's goods, even of the tribute beyond the river, forthwith expenses be given unto these men, that they be not hindered.
Ezr 6:9 And that which they have need of, both young bullocks, and rams, and lambs, for the burnt offerings of the God of heaven, wheat, salt, wine, and oil, according to the appointment of the priests which are at Jerusalem, let it be given them day by day without fail:
Ezr 6:10 That they may offer sacrifices of sweet savours unto the God of heaven, and pray for the life of the king, and of his sons.
Ezr 6:11 Also I have made a decree, that whosoever shall alter this word, let timber be pulled down from his house, and being set up, let him be hanged thereon; and let his house be made a dunghill for this.
Ezr 6:12 And the God that hath caused his name to dwell there destroy all kings and people, that shall put to their hand to alter and to destroy this house of God which is at Jerusalem. I Darius have made a decree; let it be done with speed.
(Luk 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.)
(Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.)
3rd - Temple?
Would the third be built also where the first one was?
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
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HisGrace
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Originally posted by epouraniois:
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HIsGrace
The Muslims took over the land on which the original temple was built. They demolished the temple and built a mosque on the original Temple Mount.
I thought the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 A.D.?
Notice that I didn't say that they destroyed the temple - they took over the land where the temple had previously been built.
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epouraniois
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HIsGrace
The Muslims took over the land on which the original temple was built. They demolished the temple and built a mosque on the original Temple Mount.
I thought the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 A.D.?
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If the temple weren't rebuilt God would have to declare a truce and have to admit a defeat. Nothing defeats God. This is another covenant to the Jewish people that God cannot break; otherwise He would be a liar.The original temple was built in his name and was built in the likeness of something you would see in heaven. It was given as a covenant to his people, so you can be sure that it will be rebuilt some day.
The Muslims took over the land on which the original temple was built. They demolished the temple and built a mosque on the original Temple Mount.
Daniel 8 describes a vision that Daniel had during the last days. concerning the goat attacking the ram. Verses 10-14 say.
His power (the goat)reached to the heavens where it attacked the heavenly armies, throwing some of the heavenly beings and stars to the ground and trampling them. He even challenged the Commander of heaven's armies by cancelling the daily sacrifices offered to him and by destroying his Temple. But the army of heaven was restrained from destroying him for this sin. As a result, sacrilege was committed against the Temple ceremonies, and truth was overthrown. The horn succeeded in everything it did.
Then I heard two of the holy ones talking to each other. One of them said, "How long will the events of this vision last? How long will the rebellion that causes desecration stop the daily sacrifices? How long will the Temple and heaven's armies be trampled on?" The other replied, "It will take twenty-three hundred evenings and mornings; then the Temple will be restored."
~Gabriel explained the vision and said in verse 19 "I am here to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath. What have seen pertains to the very end of time.".
Isaiah 44 speaks about the restoration of Israel and restoration of the Temple.Vrs's 26-28ut I carry out the predictions of my prophets! When they say Jerusalem will be saved and the towns of Judah will be lived in once again, it will be done!When I speak to the rivers and say, `Be dry!' they will be dry.
When I say of Cyrus, `He is my shepherd,' he will certainly do as I say. He will command that Jerusalem be rebuilt and that the Temple be restored."
Revelation talks about the temple throughtout its chapters. Rev. 11:1-31 {Re the two witnesses)Then I was given a measuring stick, and I was told, "Go and measure the Temple of God and the altar, and count the number of worshipers. But do not measure the outer courtyard, for it has been turned over to the nations. They will trample the holy city for 42 months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will be clothed in sackcloth and will prophesy during those 1,260 days.".
~The 42 months would be during the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation, which will be The Great Tribulation.
In Rev.21 it explains about going to a mount and describes in great detail the the measurements, how the walls were made of jasper and the foundation made with gems, much like the original temple.
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My first thought was to see what this word 'earth' was, thinking it might be the word used referrencing adam, 'ădâmâh (Gen 1:25),but it was not so. Next I looked up a couple of other words, wherein I found the following verse to be the realization which was not attained during the longsuffering poured out upon the tribes of Israel during the Acts period, remembering the parable, the field is the world, and Genesis finds the command to replinsh, wherein we also find the word set forth in Mat, as to the goal, being THE PLEROMA from the rent and subsequent judgment of Genesis 1.2:
Lev 27:21
But the field, when it goeth out in the jubilee, shall be holy unto the LORD, as a field devoted; the possession thereof shall be the priest's.
This is to be distinquished from the mystery, wherein THE PLEROMA shall also be to the filling of all things in the heavens of Genesis 1.1 as well.
This also reminds me of the fact that Israel's witness to God was to be the gentiles, that is to say, the nations, whereas the witness to The Church, His Body is higher still, see Ephesians 3.10 for the witness' of the work of the one body.
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BORN AGAIN
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sister HisGrace wrote this in another Topic and I made it into a new Topic.
sister HisGrace wrote quote:
These scriptures speak about the restoration of Israel and the rebuilding of the temple
.Dear sister, how many scriptures do you have for this temple that you say will be rebuilt?
If I have greater appreciation for epouraniois and for Terral it is that they "tend to stick to what is written".
So are you basing this "rebuilding of the temple" on this one scripture below:
2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Is it not true, sister, that this is the only scripture on which your statement is based, or is there more?
The reason I am bring this up, sister HisGrace, is because as you may know, that for some months now I have been interested in Ezekiel 48 and in teh oblation of land or holy portion that the Lord the Prince Jeshuah will live in, helped by the priests of Zadok.
Now, sister, there IS a sanctuary which in located in that holy oblation of land by Jerusalem where the Prince Jeshuah will live:
Ezekiel 48:9-10
9 The oblation {of land} that you shall offer to the LORD shall be of 25,000 {reeds} in length, and of 10,000 {reeds} in breadth.
10 And for them, even for the priests, shall be this holy oblation; toward the north five and twenty thousand in length, and toward the west ten thousand in breadth, and toward the east ten thousand in breadth, and toward the south five and twenty thousand in length: and the sanctuary of the LORD shall be in the midst thereof.
This sanctuary in Ezekiel 48 belongs to the LORD and "ain't no devil going to sit in that as if he is god":
2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Now I believe that the sanctuary in the oblation of land of Ezekiel 48:10 is the one that is built starting in Ezekiel 44 through 47.
So what I want to ask you, sister HisGrace:
Are you advocating that another temple will be built IN ADDITION to the sanctuary of the LORD in the holy oblation of land by Jerusalem where the Prince Jeshuah will be present.
Or do you think that Prince Jeshuah would sit in a temple or sanctuary in which Lucifer-Satan sat a little while before Him?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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