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Topic: The All Things - kingdom|gentile|church
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epouraniois
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And he did write afore in a few words BORN AGAIN, he wrote of the Mystery of Israels blindness, then in the last chapter of Romans he mentions that there is a mystery which was kept secret from before the world, but it not revealed or expanded beyond that until the first doctrine is given to the heavenly calling and heavenly kingdom after Acts is written, after Romans is written, and Ephesians commences.
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This "Gentile" contingency plan was "the mystery" which was more fully explained by the Lord to Paul.
I agree, what is unusual is that people deny it is a later revelation which has to due with the heavenly calling created in Him but had been hid in God from ages and from generations.
This is not the contingency plan of Acts, which was never a secret, that gentiles would be graphed into the tree to provoke it bear its fruit, yet apart and seperate and unnatural.
This is the contingency plan for if that didn't work and the tree cut down. And what happens to the branches on a tree that is cut down? Do they grow without the tree standing? Well, they try, but does God see them, or does God continue in His progressive plan as it is later revealed in the prison ministry by His faithful steward of the dispensation of the mystery which in other ages was not made manifest?
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It's not hyper-divisions, but progressive revelations. Even in Paul's day Paul still knew stuff that "they were not able to bear"
It isn't me placing labels everywhere, God calls it the dispensation of the mystery.
During Acts Paul was able to say:
Rom 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ
Act 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come
Rom 15:24; Act 9:28, Act 9:29, Act 13:4, Act 13:5, Act 13:14, Act 13:51, Act 14:6, Act 14:20,Act 14:25, Act 16:6-12, Act 17:10,Act 17:15; Act 18:1, Act 18:19, Act 19:1, Act 20:2, Act 20:6
And yet, there isn't one word about the body of Christ having been adopted into the headship as the church, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all in the heavenly places, seated with Him in the holiest of all where Christ sits far above all prinicpalitis and powers and names.
Now one word. Furthermore, upon the revelation of this secret body, Paul is no longer able to quote Scripture to reveal this new man, because it is not written, it was, rather, hid in God, not in the Bible. There is then the additional factoid of the church being never in the plural, for His body does not consist of churches on the earth, for this church is where He is, and He is hid in God, and in this church, there can be only unity and oneness, for that there is nothing that can stand in the presence of the mighty God which is divided.
But in the churches of Israel, we find in Revelation once again, that it is not directed to the church body, but to the tribes in their churches on earth, and even in resurrection, there are divisions. They will riegn as prists with (meta=near) Christ, while the one body is with (sun=to complete) Christ.
Not the same.
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BORN AGAIN
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While the word "mystery" is used in a number of places in the NT, the "mystery of Christ" is the following:
Ephesians 3
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
What is that mystery?
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.
In the OT the Israelites had been "put on notice" that something would happen "with the Gentiles", but how that "Gentile thing" would actually "play out" was probably not understood by the Israelites.
The LORD foreknew that the majority of Israel would reject His Son, and that a contingency plan would be needed, namely:
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.
This "Gentile" contingency plan was "the mystery" which was more fully explained by the Lord to Paul.
But there is nothing unusual or abnormal about this. Beginning with Abraham, the LORD revealed Himself in "progressive revelation", revealing the tabernacle at mount Sinai which were "shadows" and "figures" of "heavenly things", and then that the Son would take over the administration of the kingdom of God and further progressive revelation that the Gentiles would be grafted into the empty spaces.
It's not hyper-divisions, but progressive revelations. Even in Paul's day Paul still knew stuff that "they were not able to bear":
1 Corinthians 3:2
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Hebrews 5:11
Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
So the main mystery was that when the majority of the Israelites rejected the Lord, believing Gentiles would be grafted into the places of the unbelieving Israelites.
epouraniois:
1 Corinthians 16:19a
The churches of Asia salute you.
God bless, BORN AGAIN ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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epouraniois
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And this is a good point, and one which must be acknowledged:
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helpforhomeschoolers
All churches that were established by the Apostles were established according to the mystery because the Mystery is Christ in us - Christ the hope of Gory - Christ risen - who he is and when and how he would come- The mystery is CHRIST.
Romans 16:25 ¶ Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,26 But now is made manifest...
What must be acknowledged is that there are many mysteries, or secrets, which are revealed in the Bible.
In the prison ministry, there is the one mentioned in the above quote and verse, which falls into the comma, BUT NOW catagory. Paul was telling them there is a but now to the revelation of the mystery revealed in Ephesians. This mystery is not made known to the Romans in the letter. That awaits the prison epistes, but Paul was telling them something had been 'kept secret since the world began'.
This mystery is different than the other mystery in Ephesians. There is the Mystery of Christ, and this was always being made known. It is not the mystery 'hid in God', the mystery 'but now made manifest' of the prison epistles, which alone make known what this mystery is.
The Mystery of Christ which was always being made known, and was NEVER HID IN GOD, finds it's first mention in Genesis 3:15, and has to do with two seeds in the earth.
Then there is the mystery of Israel's blindness, which makes it's first apperance in Mathew 13, where we find Israel manifesting the propohecy that they did not hear and could not see, and this comes hard on ch.12 where they reject Christ as King, Prophet, and Priest. This mystery marks the Lord's ministry fulfilling the parables, where He never again speaks to the multitudes save in parable form.
So we must be careful at ascribing one of God's secrets to another one of God's secrets, as the Mystery of Christ is not the same as the Mystery Hid In God From Ages And From Generations, But Now...
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The fact that the mystery is Christ -is echoed here:
1Peter 1:10 ¶ Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.:
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
I agree, it is the Mystery of Christ, and concerns at what time "the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow" should come.
This is what Peter was referring to:
Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
And those Christ preached to did not hear them either, that is why He Scriptures needed to be fulfilled of Him speaking only in parables thereafter.
Take Psalm 22 for example, that was written a thousand years before the Romans began crucifying people on a tree, the prophets did not know what they were writing about when they wrote of the latter days, they just wrote what was revealed, take the words of the Lord, the vengance is seperated only be a comma, yet it has been nearly two thousand years.
This is not the mystery called the body, the church, for that was never made known, it was 'hid in God'. Peter wrote about the mystery which had been made known, and in Acts Peter spoke about it, saying, "this is that"...which has to do with Joel, and has nothing to do with any gentile church. Remember, the 12, and even Paul, was to speak of those things which they had seen and heard. Peter did not teach the mystery of the church of the one body. That was not Israel's hope. Israel's hope is clearly identified as being covenant related, priests bringing the salvation of God to the nations.
Paul though, was told he would be given further revelation in Acts 26, and that is what we find him doing in the prison ministry, and manifestly declares that now it would be made manifest at the end of Romans, but Romans finds no such teachings, the first chapter states the purpose.
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Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
There is no member of HIS body that was not become a member except through the revelation of the mystery!
There is no 'HIS body' being taught during the Acts. All believers during Acts has the hope of Israel in view, and that by covenant, of which hopes and calling of God is without change of mind.
This quote from Colossians proves that the but now, being emphatic, comes at a time after Acts 28:28 and is part of the prison epistles. This finds no place in the Acts, no place at any time before it is revealed as a new creation three times in Ephesians.
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There is no doubt that the heavely calling is real; but the church at Ephesus existed long before the prison epistle of Paul; The church at Galatia was established on Paul's first missionary trip; as were many others including Thessalonica and Philippi; The church at colasse was not established by Paul at all. The prision epsitles were not even written till 61AD at the earliest and Paul had been preaching the Gospel since 35 AD to both gentile and Jew.
Yes, the church there most certainly did exist before this letter, but these Ephesians we read, turned away, 'all in Asia turned away' from the first of the prison ministry teaching, and Ephesus is in Asia.
This church received Paul for the hope of Israel during the Acts, but rejected Paul the prisoner for the the hope of gentiles in this letter. This letter, revealing an entirely new doctrine, one of a heavenly calling.
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Paul died about 64 AD. Are you really saying that his almost 30 years of being an Apostle to the Gentiles he was not being an apostle to the gentiles except in the last 2-3 years of his life?????
The new creation is created when the son of adam is baptised by the holy spirit who comes to indwell and seal him; from the day of Petecost forward there have been both Jew and gentiles that were new creatures in Christ.
The new man of Ephesians 2 is a man that has no claim to God based on nationality; he is neither greek nor jew - the twain become one in Christ at the cross when the partition in the temple was rent between Jew and Gentile courts - at the same time that the veil was rent between the holy of holies and the Jew.
Paul was released and reimprisoned after that.
There was no gentile at Pentacost. Peter didn't know anything about any gentile being spoken to, for in Acts 10 we find he is not rejoicing that a gentile needs to be spoken with, and has no idea why he is to speak to one. Niether did those who awaited him, for they took counsil, and Peter practiced his routine of what he could possibly say to them. Peter never ministered to a gentile again. Paul repromands him in Galatians for his behaviour to the gentiles even after that.
The twain didn't be created in Him till after Acts. And there is a difference between the temple viel which was wrent for the Jews and the middle wall of partition, which was a stone with writing on it that stood in the outermost courtyard of the temple, way out beyond the womans court, that said on it if any gentile crosses said stone, the penalty is death which would soon follow. They have the stone in the British museum.
The heavenly calling just cannot be found before it is revealed. It cannot therefore, be found in any teaching during the Acts when the hope of Israel and the Kingdom of God with Christ coming to fulfill her covenant blessings to the earth.
It is, as it is written, a new creation chosen in Him from before the foundation of the world. The children of promise were chosen from, or since, the foundation of the world and was not a secret hid in God:
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world
And this was what the purpose of the Acts were for:
Act 3:18 But those things, which God before had showed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
kept secret from ages and from generations is not the same as spoken by ALL His holy prophets since the world began.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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I want to jump in here and there is so much already said, I am not sure where to begin. Some of this I have spoken to in the Make it a Thread - thread, but I am going to try and jump in here by using your last post Bro Epouraniois because it lets be address what you and BA have said.
If I am not able to contribute here with some sort of sense, then just throw me out.. I'll go quietly. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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quote:by BA
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In my opinion, Israel was not blinded until the kingdom of God was taken away from them in 70 A.D. Israel is blinded during the "time of the Gentiles".
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Epouraniois responds:Isn't it the Lord's opinion we want? and doesn't the Lord speak through Paul, reminding them in Romans that blindness has already happened, and this after the apostle had reminded them that all Israel had heard in chapter 10? Preparing them for Ephesians to be soon revealed, finally stating:
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began
But they did not become established according to the revelation of the mystery. If they did, there is no evidence of it in the Bible, nor in secular writings. Please note when the times of the gentiles began, revealed by Daniel as to the head was, the head of gold initializing the times.
I agree with Epouraniois that they were already blinded the JEW; by the time that the letter is written to the Roman's which was written from Corinth while Paul was nearing the end of his 3rd Missionary Journey and it is about 57 AD; he is preparing to return to Jerusalem and he desires to go to Rome when he leaves there on his way to spain, but Paul does not know if this will happen; he knows that trouble does likely await him in Jerusalem. The Church at Ephesus had been established during Paul's 2nd Missionary Journey some years before. The Church in Rome was established by those who came from Jerusalem after Pentecost.
All churches that were established by the Apostles were established according to the mystery because the Mystery is Christ in us - Christ the hope of Gory - Christ risen - who he is and when and how he would come- The mystery is CHRIST.
Romans 16:25 ¶ Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. <<Written to the Romans from Corinthus, and sent by Phebe servant of the church at Cenchrea.>>
The fact that the mystery is Christ -is echoed here:
1Peter 1:10 ¶ Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.:
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
There is no member of HIS body that was not become a member except through the revelation of the mystery!
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quote: BA says
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The earliest Gentiles who believed in places like Phillipi and Thessalonika or whatever "did not prison epistles to read yet."
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Epouraniois says: Sure they did, Ephesians for example, was a cirular letter, copies with the 'name' field left blank so they could reproduce it and send it along the circuit. They had 7 or 8 years, but at the end Paul writes, that from the first preaching (the Ephesus epistle) his furthest reaches had turned away, that only Luke is with him. You may not be able to even count the believers on two hands, one might do it.
Even you are having huge problems believing this heavenly calling is what it claims to be, what the Lord through Paul claims it to be. At least you are willing to investigate it, most are unable to even believe it possible, leaning wholly on their own understanding.
There is no doubt that the heavely calling is real; but the church at Ephesus existed long before the prison epistle of Paul; The church at Galatia was established on Paul's first missionary trip; as were many others including Thessalonica and Philippi; The church at colasse was not established by Paul at all. The prision epsitles were not even written till 61AD at the earliest and Paul had been preaching the Gospel since 35 AD to both gentile and Jew.
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quote:by BA
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Paul preached to both Jew and Gentile.
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Response by Epouraniois: Not after Acts. Not as Paul the prisoner. Not in the new creation where there is neither Jew nor Gentile. Not in any teachings found in any previous writings. It was a secret till God revealed it.
Paul died about 64 AD. Are you really saying that his almost 30 years of being an Apostle to the Gentiles he was not being an apostle to the gentiles except in the last 2-3 years of his life?????
The new creation is created when the son of adam is baptised by the holy spirit who comes to indwell and seal him; from the day of Petecost forward there have been both Jew and gentiles that were new creatures in Christ.
The new man of Ephesians 2 is a man that has no claim to God based on nationality; he is neither greek nor jew - the twain become one in Christ at the cross when the partition in the temple was rent between Jew and Gentile courts - at the same time that the veil was rent between the holy of holies and the Jew.
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quote:by BA
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Israel was not blinded until all who would accept Jesus had accepted Him and the rest died in the conflagration of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and/or were sold as slaves into the nations. At that point, the "kingdom of God was taken...
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Response by Epouraniois:I'm quite sure that is what is preached, but that is not what the Bible says. The Bible marks it at Acts 28:28, 62 A.D.
Clearly according to scripture the Jew was blinded before 70AD; what happened in 70 AD is that the nation of Israel was taken from the hands of the Pharisee as it was the final pronounciation of judgement upon those that called themselves Jews and were not because the one is a Jew that is circumcised in the heart and not the foreskin.
Though the Jew was blinded by the time that they crucified Christ or they would not have been able to do what they did... there were others in Galilee and in Samaria and in other places of Judea and in Rome for example that were not in Jerusalem or in the area's in which Jesus preached and from the time of his death until 70AD they were given opportunity to hear the Gospel; there was a transition period in which some could come who did not come while Jesus preached and many did; but in 70 AD the nation and commonwealth of Israel ceased to be ruled soverngly and was given over to Rome.
The Kingdom of God was in the hands of Jesus as it had been from the time that he appeared as the Messiah.
Jesus did not come to earth to establish an earthly kingdom; Jesus came to show the Kingdom who the shepherd was and they did hear and follow and then there was the time of the gentiles and that is now. When Jesus comes again, he will be coming to establish an earthly kingdom.
If you do not believe that this is so; then I suggest you study the statute of Daniel.... there is no place in that statute for Christ's earthly Kingdom.... it was not supposed to be in 30 AD; what happened then was exactly what was supposed to happen. Jesus came to call the sinner in the Kingdom of God to repentance to tell them that they followed a wolf in sheeps clothing and to condemn the pharisee and set straight the saducee and make the way for the church; and the church began at Pentecost when the believers were given the indwelling Holy Spirit and became one with Christ in God. GOD DOES NOT NEED A CONTINGENCY PLAN _ GOD IS GOD!!!!!!
ughhhhhhhhhhh! I have to stop quoting there it is too much;
Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Some who are of Jacob (Israel) are not Israel. The Pharisee were of Israel and not Israel.
Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Ishmael was the seed of Abraham and the promises given to Issac are not promised to Ishmael;
BUT BUT BUT - in Issac YOUR seed be called - Issac begat Jacob, who begat Jospeh who had two sons by a heathen Egyptian woman and they would not be entitled to the promises of Jacob (Israel) except that Jacob (Israel) adopted them as his own and their seed would be called to an inheritance through their brothers who are now because of their adoption the 12 sons of Jacob - and we who are gentiles are called to an inheritance through our brother who is Christ the son of David who is the son of Judah and we have received the Spirit of Adoption and that entitles us to all that is promised to Abraham's seed, and Issac's seed, and Jacob's Seed... HE Jehovah God will be our God and we HIS people, but more than that, we who were not fit to marry a Jewish Rabbi named Jesus because we were heathen have now been adopted and are eligible; and in our marriage we become one body with HIM.
We are the Bride and ours is a heavenly Kingdom because Christ's Kingdom is heavenly; we have something with him that John the baptist will never have - we are one with Christ - one Body with Christ our head; but Christ is coming back to establish and earthly Kingdom - that is his inheritance through David - the throne of David and the rule of the nations and as his bride, that is also our inheritance.
While Pauline dispensationalism tries to get us to understand what it means to be born from above new creatures in christ, blessed with all heavenly blessings, it robs us of our Rich and meaningful Hebrew heritage and our rights to all things promised us through Abraham and the truth is both things are ours - especially our oneness with our brothers.
lastly on Olive trees; an olive tree is to be cultivated; wild olive trees do not produce olives that are rich and full of oil.
God planted two oilve trees and cultivated one; we are cut out of the uncultivated olive tree and grafted in to the cultivated one - amongst those that were cut off not in place of them.
We did not come from a sycamour or a cedar; we came from an oilve tree. God chose and called out of all the people of the world a people unto himself and he chose them to come through Abraham and Issac and Jacob and we gentiles are the adopted sons of Jacob.
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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epouraniois
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In my opinion, Israel was not blinded until the kingdom of God was taken away from them in 70 A.D. Israel is blinded during the "time of the Gentiles".
Isn't it the Lord's opinion we want? and doesn't the Lord speak through Paul, reminding them in Romans that blindness has already happened, and this after the apostle had reminded them that all Israel had heard in chapter 10? Preparing them for Ephesians to be soon revealed, finally stating:
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began
But they did not become established according to the revelation of the mystery. If they did, there is no evidence of it in the Bible, nor in secular writings. Please note when the times of the gentiles began, revealed by Daniel as to the head was, the head of gold initializing the times.
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What? The Gentiles who believed were just like us Gentiles who believed. If you are a Gentile, epouraniois, are you "praying to the dead" and doing "spirit work" now that you are saved? Probably not; so why would you ascribe that behavior to the earliest Gentiles?
Just read the church writings of their own professed histories. They are, for the most part, still doing it aren't they?
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The earliest Gentiles who believed in places like Phillipi and Thessalonika or whatever "did not prison epistles to read yet."
Sure they did, Ephesians for example, was a cirular letter, copies with the 'name' field left blank so they could reproduce it and send it along the circuit. They had 7 or 8 years, but at the end Paul writes, that from the first preaching (the Ephesus epistle) his furthest reaches had turned away, that only Luke is with him. You may not be able to even count the believers on two hands, one might do it.
Even you are having huge problems believing this heavenly calling is what it claims to be, what the Lord through Paul claims it to be. At least you are willing to investigate it, most are unable to even believe it possible, leaning wholly on their own understanding.
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Paul preached to both Jew and Gentile.
Not after Acts. Not as Paul the prisoner. Not in the new creation where there is neither Jew nor Gentile. Not in any teachings found in any previous writings. It was a secret till God revealed it.
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Israel was not blinded until all who would accept Jesus had accepted Him and the rest died in the conflagration of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and/or were sold as slaves into the nations. At that point, the "kingdom of God was taken...
I'm quite sure that is what is preached, but that is not what the Bible says. The Bible marks it at Acts 28:28, 62 A.D.
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A minority (but still many) did believe in Israel. The only contingency plan God had was to fill up the empty places left unfilled by the majority of unbelieving Israelites, and fill those empty spots with Gentiles believers; that was the only contingency plan and that IS being preached all over the NT!
Yes, you are correct, it is written all over the Bible, but not in that part where the church is revealed in A.D. 62. All Israel had heard and rejected. Paul expounds upon this in the last of the Acts period epistles, Romans, and Luke records all of those travals preached during the Acts.
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I am not blinded Israel and I am not the "gentiles without covenant and without God in the world"; I am a Gentile adopted into the believing part of Israel, now "heir to the promises of Abraham" and "heir of Christ", with all the rights and privileges which Israel had before the kindgom of God was taken away from the unbelieving portion of Israel.
Then you must be living in that period before 62 A.D. when that was preached, for it has been ceeded by the dispensation of the mystery, and you also must disregard going to heaven, for if your hope is Israel's hope, you are blessed with their blessings. Seeing as how you deny the mystery body which is now being formed, and you are obviously not living pre-62 A.D., you forfiet it all to rejection, yet are saved by the blood of Christ unto the Salvation of God. Overcomers do not deny the high calling of God. The loss is the reward Paul also said he apprehended to attain, leaving those things of Acts behind, pressing on...
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What is written in the epistles is just a "rehashing" of what had already been largely told them "in person";
That is totally wrong, and cannot be proven one bit. There are no teaching that carry over, the one body is a new creation just as it is written.
This is exactly why I had asked previously if you would please make a list of the things that are the same. But you didn't, and you can't, because there is nothing the same.
I challange you again. But why not trust that it was hid from ages and from generations but now after Acts made known, as it is written? If God says it isn't written, it isn't written, but maybe the exercise will open your heart to see what is the fellowship of the mystery (Eph.3. 9)?
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In 1980.
Please, the Biblical answer.
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You seem to be missing a period called "the time of the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled."
I include that in the (), where are the details? See, nothing written about this time period, save for what is manifestly declared in the prison epistles, which revelates the church His body.
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Not true, Jesus told them flat-out "ahead of time" by way of the parable what would happen to Israel if Israel did not accept Jesus, namely that the "kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to another...". It was also predicted in the OT that Israel would end up "lo-ammi" and "lo-ruhamah" and that Israel would end up "sifted through the ethnae" (Gentile nations).
The fact there would be this time is referrenced, but nothing guiding Israel, she has no instruction, so if you are graphed into her, you also have no instruction.
The asssumption given by Paul in Ephesians Two is based upon acknowledgment, that you WERE "called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".
But since you reject this church body as valid truth for today, then you still are "called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (still)...without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".
quote:
Absolutely, and it will when the house of Israel and the house of Judah "come up out of their graves and come into the land of Israel" (Ezekiel 36).
The 'at present' was during Acts, remember, this was written for the hope of Israel in Romans, during the Acts. The mystery body not yet made known.
quote:
neither believing Israel nor unbelieving Israel had any idea at first that God would fill in the emply places with believing Gentiles
Actually they were prophecied to, that they would be provoked by gentiles, this was always written. Paul was going around telling them, look at these verses, you are fulfilling the bad part, turn, repent, the kingdom is near. What was not made known was that through there fall the nations would be blessed apart from Israel. This was a secret hid in God, not in the Bible.
quote:
All the apostles for that matter wrote individually about different "aspects of Christ", as the Holy Spirit deemed fit, and that's one of the beauties of the NT, isn't it?
And being so, it must be realized the Lord came to fulfill that which was promised to the fathers, promised by covenant, awaiting fulfillment in the milinium. It is beautiful that we get to read the letters written to Israel. It is beautiful that gentiles were permitted to stand outside and listen to Paul after he preached to Israel.
And then the mystery is revealed after that ceased. It may not have ceased physically, but as far as God is concerned it ceased. They practiced folly if they did not receive the new teaching of the revelation of the mystery in A.D. 62. They practiced leaning unto their own understanding rather than listening to the vessel who bore the marks of apostleship.
Are you afraid of acknowledging God gave further revelation into the adoption of the kingdom of His Dear Son?
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord (Eph 3:9-11).
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BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois writes quote:
the kingdom church of the promise did was not blessed. It was blinded.
In my opinion, Israel was not blinded until the kingdom of God was taken away from them in 70 A.D. Israel is blinded during the "time of the Gentiles". quote:
The result bears witness to an amalgamation of diversities, gentile priests, praying to the dead, spirit work, traditions of the elders, just all kinds of things.
What? The Gentiles who believed were just like us Gentiles who believed. If you are a Gentile, epouraniois, are you "praying to the dead" and doing "spirit work" now that you are saved? Probably not; so why would you ascribe that behavior to the earliest Gentiles? quote:
But never reading the prison epistles in the acknowledgment to the Will of the Father, the Work of the Son and the Seal of the Spirit into His Calling.
The earliest Gentiles who believed in places like Phillipi and Thessalonika or whatever "did not prison epistles to read yet."
Paul preached "according to the scriptures" to both Jew and Gentile, the same stuff that Jesus opened up to the two men on the road to Emmaus. Jesus revealed how He appeared in the OT to Paul over a period of years, and that Paul preached to both Jew and Gentile. quote:
BORN AGAIN wrote: It is no big deal to me that Paul went to the synagogues of the Jews everywhere.
epouraniois answered: That is what I do not understand. God is making the biggest deal out of it. He has blinded the favored nation, the only nation in covenant relation.
Israel was not blinded until all who would accept Jesus had accepted Him and the rest died in the conflagration of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and/or were sold as slaves into the nations. At that point, the "kingdom of God was taken from then and given to a nation that would bring forth the fruits thereof", which from 70 A.D. onwards consisted of Israelite believers and Gentile believers, and still does while the time of the Gentiles continues. The Lord left no stone unturned in trying to get Israelites, even in the Diaspora, to repent and return, and so the natural place for Paul to go was to go first to the Jews in the synagogue, then to the Gentiles of that area. quote:
It was so important that God had chosen a secret contingency plan for the very real posibility that Israel would not receive the Son. He revealed it, and it is not preached!
A minority (but still many) did believe in Israel. The only contingency plan God had was to fill up the empty places left unfilled by the majority of unbelieving Israelites, and fill those empty spots with Gentiles believers; that was the only contingency plan and that IS being preached all over the NT! (to copy your exclamation point) quote:
I need to ask you to ask yourself some direct questions, basing the answers on Biblical facts. No offense being meant by the direct questions.
Who are you anyway?
I'm a voice crying in the wilderness. (just kidding, or, read my profile). quote:
Are you the blinded Israel, or the gentiles who are without covenant and without God in the world?
I am not blinded Israel and I am not the "gentiles without covenant and without God in the world"; I am a Gentile adopted into the believing part of Israel, now "heir to the promises of Abraham" and "heir of Christ", with all the rights and privileges which Israel had before the kindgom of God was taken away from the unbelieving portion of Israel. quote:
Are you the gentile standing outside the synagogue witnessing the destruction of everything regarding God and His people, of whose table you were fed?
I may have been the Gentile standing outside the synagogue, but "not" witnessing the destruction of "everything", but the destruction of "part" of everything, and to my gladness, "I'm allowed to fill up that part vacated by the destroyed part". quote:
The Lord then speaks through the vessel Paul, bringing a whole new revelation called the mystery, giving a whole new doctrine, speaking of a new creation called His Body, and makes known the expanded plan which was not before made known, which includes not the earth only, but the heavens and the earth, and it seems unkown in the world.[quote]The Lord revealed to Paul what was in the OT, plus I believe that the Lord "fleshed it out" for Paul, making known "more completely" how that "the Messiah must needs suffer first (Isa.53)" and even Jesus had already "begun" to tell about His coming suffering to His apostles in the last months.
The apostles never quite "got it", but they finally "got it" when Jesus appeared to them after His resurrection. So it was not as much of a "mystery" as you tend to make it.[quote] In these epistles many often find reason to borrow from, in support to the ministry previously commissioned for the hope of Israel, which it cannot do, by the fact it is written to someone else entirely.
What is written in the epistles is just a "rehashing" of what had already been largely told them "in person"; the epistles did not appear until later, but for sure salvation thru the suffering Christ was already being preached by everyone, by Peter, by Paul, by Phillip, by Stephen, by the "persecuted believers who went abroad and preached everywhere they went", they preached "Jesus's death for sin" and "resurrection for life", etcetera. quote:
When was the word sent out to you?
In 1980. quote:
In the parable where those who finally are gathered together, who are found in the highways, are "bad and good"; worthiness is no longer spoken of.
These seem to be the elect, who are gathered together by the angels from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other, relating to the harvest of Mathew 13, pertaining to the milinial teachings, the time of the wedding in Revelation reveals the time of this event.
They were the Gentiles who, by comparison to Israel which "had" the oracles of God, were "bad and good" and "lame and halt". It was the Lord's way of saying, "go get me a bunch of "bad and good" and "lame and halt" Gentiles then, and I will "sons of God out of them" for God is able to raise children unto Himself "from stones" if He had to. quote:
We are living in a parenthisis (). This time is not recorded in the Bible.
You seem to be missing a period called "the time of the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled." quote:
It was never prophesied of what happens to Israel if she refused to receive her kingdom and her King.
Not true, Jesus told them flat-out "ahead of time" by way of the parable what would happen to Israel if Israel did not accept Jesus, namely that the "kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to another...". It was also predicted in the OT that Israel would end up "lo-ammi" and "lo-ruhamah" and that Israel would end up "sifted through the ethnae" (Gentile nations). quote:
There are several things we must bear in mind, for we know that all the Scripture fits where God has so placed it, while man has been subject to err and boldness, failing, in the large, to walk circumspectly.
like, duh. (I'm beginning to sound like Terral now.) quote:
The Nation of Israel, even though ‘enemies’ at present as concerning the gospel, must be saved because ‘the gifts and calling of God are without repentance’ (Rom. 11:28,29).
Absolutely, and it will when the house of Israel and the house of Judah "come up out of their graves and come into the land of Israel" (Ezekiel 36). quote:
The association of believing Gentiles with the hope of Israel, is a peculiar characteristic of the ministry of ‘reconciliation’ which was exercised by the apostle Paul during the first part of his ministry.
That is probably true; neither believing Israel nor unbelieving Israel had any idea at first that God would fill in the emply places with believing Gentiles; shocking!! quote:
The great outside world, compared to ‘the highways and the by-ways’, is evangelized by the ministry of the gospel according to John, the only Gospel written to unbelievers. Its great blessing is ‘life’, and little is said about any particular sphere of blessing or of calling.
All the apostles for that matter wrote individually about different "aspects of Christ", as the Holy Spirit deemed fit, and that's one of the beauties of the NT, isn't it? quote:
Last of all, and central in the structure of the Divine purpose, is the prison ministry of Paul, with its revelation of the Mystery, the hidden secret of the heart of God; reserved until the people of Israel passed off the scene, and the kingdom of Israel became temporarily suspended. This is the calling of the present period, and it is the desire to make all men see what is the dispensation of the Mystery (Eph. 3:9 R.V.)
You had to go there again, didn't you.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois
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Hi Born Again,
responding to: quote:
What does that mean? Isaac did not have any Gentile descendants, only Israelites through Isaac?
Isaac had more than one son, twins even, and in the New Testament we learn that not the seed of Israel (Jacob) are all Israel, but in Isacc's seed who believed were counted for the children of promise. Undoubtibly, living in the land where the dispersion had built their synagoagues, as Paul only ministered where the tribes were scattered and had built synagogagues.
quote:
Okay, Jesus gave Israel one more chance...whoever refused to believe was "cut off".
Yes, everyone was given an oportunity to receive the message of forgivness, mercy, the times of refreshing, evidenced by the powers of the age to come. They looked for Tabernacles Fulfillment unto resurrection, the return of the Lord.
quote:
It probably lasted, in one form or another, through any believer, until 70 A.D.
I think so too, but trying to live in a former dispensation, as Acts 28:28 has the boundry declared in A.D.62, therefore they had nothing legitament to bring into the future. They did not believe in the one body, they did not believe the middle wall was broken down. They did not believe in the heavenly calling or the adoption to it.
And it makes since too, that Paul did not preach this during the Acts, who would have believed him? He was having a difficult life on the road as it was, where everything was written and the apostle was enpowered to deliver this truth, he did.
quote:
...the disciples were scattered into Samaria and abroad but "preached everywhere they went."
Definately, but they knew nothing about preaching to any gentiles, these were all Jews, returning from Jewish Feasts in their motherland temple under Roman occupation. And those who lived near any synagoguge may have been causing a stir. I believe this to be the case, but the fact is, the kingdom church of the promise did was not blessed. It was blinded. The result bears witness to an amalgamation of diversities, gentile priests, praying to the dead, spirit work, traditions of the elders, just all kinds of things.
But never reading the prison epistles in the acknowledgment to the Will of the Father, the Work of the Son and the Seal of the Spirit into His Calling.
quote:
Does the "bolded" they above refer to Israelites?
Yes, sorry about that. It is the covenant to Israel that they bless the nations, first to all Israel. That is the requirement. If Israel did not receive this first, then she could not recevie her inheritance, so it now in abayence.
quote:
It is no big deal to me that Paul went to the synagogues of the Jews everywhere
That is what I do not understand. God is making the biggest deal out of it. He has blinded the favoured nation, the only nation in covenant relation. It was so important that God had chosen a secret contingency plan for the very real posibility that Israel would not receive the Son. He revealed it, and it is not preached!
I need to ask you to ask yourself some direct question, basing the answers on Biblical facts. No offense being meant by the direct questions.
Who are you anyway? Are you the blinded Israel, or the gentiles who are without covenant and without God in the world? Are you the gentile standing outside the synagogue witnessing the destruction of everything regarding God and His people, of whom's table you were fed?
The Lord then speaks through the vessel Paul, bringing a whole new revelation called the mystery, giving a whole new doctrine, speaking of a new creation called His Body, and makes known the expanded plan which was not before made known, which includes not the earth only, but the heavens and the earth, and it seems unkown in the world. In these epistles many often find reason to borrow from, in support to the ministry previously commissioned for the hope of Israel, which it cannot do, by the fact it is written to someone else entirely.
When was the word sent out to you?
In the parable where those who finally are gathered together, who are found in the highways, are "bad and good"; worthiness is no longer spoken of. These seem to be the elect, who are gathered together by the angels from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other, relating to the harvest of Mathew 13, pertaining to the milinial teachings, the time of the wedding in Revelation reveals the time of this event.
We are living in a parenthisis (). This time is not recorded in the Bible. It was never prophezied of what happens to Israel if she refused to receive her kingdom and her King.
Thre are several things we must bear in mind, for we know that all the Scripture fits where God has so placed it, while man has been subject to err and boldness, failing, in the large, to walk circumspectly.
The Nation of Israel, even though ‘enemies’ at present as concerning the gospel, must be saved because ‘the gifts and calling of God are without repentance’ (Rom. 11:28,29).
The association of believing Gentiles with the hope of Israel, is a peculiar characteristic of the ministry of ‘reconciliation’ which was exercised by the apostle Paul during the first part of his ministry.
The great outside world, compared to ‘the highways and the by-ways’, is evangelized by the ministry of the gospel according to John. The only Gospel written to unbelievers. Its great blessing is ‘life’, and little is said about any particular sphere of blessing or of calling. John does not teach the mystery, for he is an apostle having his name on the Heavenly City, the Hebrew bride it's charactor.
Last of all, and central in the structure of the Divine purpose, is the prison ministry of Paul, with its revelation of the Mystery, the hidden secret of the heart of God; reserved until the people of Israel passed off the scene, and the kingdom of Israel became temporarily suspended. This is the calling of the present period, and it is the desire to make all men see what is the dispensation of the Mystery (Eph. 3:9 R.V.)
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BORN AGAIN
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okay, I read it all at work, though I was interrupted several times.
I was wondering about this comment: quote:
Summary:
Some gentiles were the offspring of Isaac.
What does that mean? Isaac did not have any Gentile descendants, only Israelites through Isaac? quote:
They were not just any 'ol gentile, and certainly not all the nations of the world. The kingdom promises were being offered to Israel. The apostles were sent to Israel after 40 days of Bible seminar with by the risen Lord Christ Jesus, after the eyes of their understanding were supernaturally opened, therefore they asked in Acts1, if the Lord would restore the KINGDOM TO ISRAEL at that time.
Okay, Jesus gave Israel one more chance through preaching by John the Baptist and by Himself and by the disciples for Israel to return to the LORD and His Messiah, and whoever refused to believe was "cut off". Finally, in 70 A.D., the preaching period was ended, the OT temple was destroyed, and the remnant of Israel/Judah were sent into the nations. quote:
Israel had 18 years of preaching opportunity to receive this kingdom offer.
It probably lasted, in one form or another, through any believer, until 70 A.D. when the whole Mosaic system was taken out of the way. The NT says that during the dispersion following Stephen's stoning, the disciples were scattered into Samaria and abroad but "preached everywhere they went." quote:
Meanwhile, Paul had spent three years with the Lord in Arabia (Gal 1:16-18), then preached to gentiles beginning in A.D.46. Had they yet returned to the Lord, those same gentiles would have been ruled by covenant promise by Israel, for the miraculous signs and wonders were 'the powers of the world to come', now awaits the thousand years where Israel is again taken up as the object of the Lord's love and grace.
Does the "bolded" they above refer to Israelites? quote:
‘Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles’ (Act 13:46).
So where does Paul go?
'...into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed' (Act 14:1).
'Now...they came to...a synagogue of the Jews: Paul, as his manner' (Act 17:1-2).
It is no big deal to me that Paul went to the synagogues of the Jews everywhere Paul went; that was, as we say, "a good place to start", the Lord even given the Jews of the Diaspora a "first opportunity to repent", just as the Lord had done for the Jews still residing in the land of Israel/Judah/Galilee.
In every synagogue, some Israelites believed and they were added to the church; but after that group of Israelites had believed, then in and by each synagogue Paul preached also to the Gentiles because by now the Lord had said, in the parable, that "the ones who were called, made excuses, so go into the highways and byways and compel the lame and halt to come in", i.e, fill the emply places at My table with Gentiles so that "My house may be full".
Did I miss something?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois
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The Verse:
‘They are NOT ALL ISRAEL, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, IN ISAAC shall thy seed be called ... the children of the promise are counted for the seed’ (6-8).
Intro (knowledge assumed):
During Paul's Acts period epistles, it is well known that there were gentiles graphed into the natural tree, but they themselves were un natural. The reason we are given for the Lord expanding Israel's kingdom was prophecied by Moses and others. They were to be used to provoke Israel owning her failure to bear the fruit of changing their minds and believing on Jesus Christ.
Questions:
So, were these gentiles just any gentiles?
Were these all gentiles?
Did Paul preach to africa, india, australia, spain, america?
Or was Paul ministry being supervised by the risen and ascended Lord?
If there are limits, or divisions, what are the sign posts?
Subject:
Two words in Romans:
'ALL' and 'ALL THINGS'.
The Suposition:
It is of extreme importance that we distinguish between those passages of Scripture which use panta ‘all things’ and ta panta some particular ‘all things’.
First, look at the usage of this word in the New Testament. ‘Every nation under heaven’ (Acts 2:5) sounds universal, but is limited to a radius of some 400 miles, as a reference to verses 9-11 will reveal. In Colossians 1:16 we read of the creation of all things that are in heaven and in earth, that Christ is before all things and that by Him all things consist. Yet in the space of a few verses, Paul says that the gospel entrusted to him had been preached to ‘every creature which is under heaven’ (Col. 1:23). Paul certainly did not cover the continents of Africa, America or Asia, yet he is free to use such terms.
When Paul wrote ‘all things are lawful for me’ (1 Cor. 10:23) he most certainly did not mean that it would be lawful for him to lie, steal, murder or break any other commandment of God or of conscience. It becomes appearent that we must consider that God has limited the meaning of 'all things' to specific environs.
The Condensed Structure - Romans - the three conected chapters:
- 9:1-5. Sorrow. Doxology, ‘Over all’ panton.
-. 9:6-29. Remnant saved. Mercy on some. (Corrective as to ‘all Israel’ 9:6).
-.. 9:30 to 11:10. Christ the end of the law. All Israel had heard.
-. 11:11-32. All Israel saved. Mercy on them all. (Corrective as to Remnant 11:1-5).
- 11:33-35. Song. Doxology. ‘All things’ ta panta.
‘They are NOT ALL ISRAEL, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, IN ISAAC shall thy seed be called ... the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise...’ (6-9).
The first occurrences of 'panta' & 'ta panta' are found in the epistles, with and without the article, are in Romans 8:28 and 32.
‘We know that all things (panta) work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose’ (Rom. 8:28).
Here the word is without the article and includes evil as well as good. In verse 32 we read:
‘He that spared not His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely (graciously) give us the all things’ (ta panta).
The article here, comes in this new section commencing with the words, ‘what shall we then say?’ of verse 31. This seems to lead us to see that ‘the all things’ may be even a much less inclusive expression than ‘all things’ and further, that the special term ta panta has been used by the Holy Spirit with a special meaning, which only investigation reveals.
This expression is given again in Romans 11:36, and is typical of its usage. After bringing before the reader the amazing grace and matchless mercy of God in His final dealings with Israel, the apostle concludes with the doxology:
‘For of Him (ek, originating cause), and through Him (dia, efficient and ministerial cause), and to Him (eis, final cause), are all things (ta panta): to Whom be glory, unto the ages. Amen’.
Noting carefully, it does not say that the Lord is the originating cause of all things universally (such as evil), but of the all things. It does not say that He is the ministerial cause of all things universally, but only of the all things, and it does not say that all things universally are unto Him as the final cause, but the all things. This leads us to ask, what all things?
Returning to the doxology, Romans 11:36, compare the statement of the apostle in 1 Corinthians 8:5,6. In Romans 11 the Scripture does not differentiate between ‘Him’ of whom are all things, and ‘Him’ through whom are all things. He is called ‘God’ and ‘Lord’ in the context (see verses 33 and 34). It is evident that the God of verse 33 is the Lord of verse 34, and the fourfold ‘Him’ of verse 36.
By contrast of the heathen conception of many gods and many lords (ie., Baalim, demons, mediums), the believer recognizes one God, the Father, the originating cause of the all things (ta panta), and one Lord, Jesus Christ, the ministerial and mediating cause in reference to the same ‘the all things’ (ta panta), consequently ‘an idol is nothing in the world’.
Again the force of the expression (the all things) must be observed. This emphasis upon origin and ministerial cause is met with in the next reference, 1 Corinthians 11:12:
‘For as the woman is out of (ek, origin) the man, even so is the man through (dia, ministerial cause) the woman; but the all things (ta panta) are out of (ek, origin) God’.
The next passage (1 Cor. 15:27,28) we must consider together with Hebrews 2:8-10:
‘For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put the all things (ta panta) under Him. And when the all things (ta panta) shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put the all things (ta panta) under Him, that God may be all in all’.
Hebrews 2:8-10 declares the universality of all things which are to be subjected beneath the feet of Christ:
‘Thou hast put all things in subjection under His feet. For in that He put the all things (ta panta) in subjection under Him, He left nothing that is not put under Him. But now we see not yet the all things (ta panta), put under Him ... For it became Him, for whom are the all things (ta panta), and by (through) whom are the all things (ta panta), in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the Captain of their salvation perfect through suffering’.
1 Corinthians 15:27,28 speaks of the subjection of some if not all, and definate destruction of the enemy which is to be destroyed. In verse 24 we read:
‘Then the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have abolished (katargeo) every principality (arche), and every authority (exousia), and power (dunamis). For He must reign, until He hath placed all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be abolished (katargeo) is death’.
Note the repetition of those spiritual powers again in Ephesians 1:21-23, where we read of the exaltation of Christ as being -
‘Far above every principality (arche, see 1 Cor. 15:27,28), and authority exousia) and power (dunamis) and lordship (kuriotes), and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in that which is to come: and hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be Head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fulness of Him that the all things (ta panta) with all is filling’.
‘To the intent that now unto the principalities (arche), and authorities (exousia) in the heavenlies might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God’ (Eph. 3:10).
‘For we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with the principalities (arche), with the authorities (exousia), with the world-rulers of this darkness, with the spiritual things of wickedness in the heavenlies’ (Eph. 6:12).
‘For by Him were created the all things (ta panta), the things in the heavens and the things on the earth, the things seen and the things unseen, whether thrones, or lordships (kuriotes) whether principalities (arche), or authorities (exousia), the all things (ta panta) for Him, and unto Him have been created, and He is before the all things (ta panta), and by Him the all things (ta panta) consist, and He is the Head of the body the church: Who is the Beginning, First-born out of the dead, in order that among all He might become pre-eminent; because in Him it was thought good that all the fulness should dwell’ (Col. 1:16-19).
‘Because in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And you are filled full by Him, Who is the Head of every principality (arche) and authority (exousia)’ (Col. 2:9,10).
‘Having put off the principalities (arche), and the authorities (exousia), He made a public exhibition of them, having triumphed over them by it’ (Col. 2:15).
Noting the parallelism:
- Eph. 1:21-23. Principalities, authorities, powers, lordships. Christ. Head of the body the church. Fulness.
-. Eph. 3:10. Principalities, authorities - The church linked with the principalities.
-.. Eph. 6:12. Principalities, authorities, world rulers, spiritual things of wickedness - The believer’s conflict.
- Col. 1:16. Principalities, authorities, thrones, lordships - Christ, Head of the body the church. Fulness.
-. Col. 2:10. Principalities, authorities - The church linked with principalities.
-.. Col. 2:15. Principalities, authorities - The Saviour’s triumph.
Note that some are placed beneath the Lord’s feet (Eph. 1:22), and this position is not the place of the members of His body - to them He is Head to be united in oneness with His body. These same subjected powers (being paralleled in 1 Cor.15, the emphasis on enemies) seem to be the antagonizing spirits of Ephesians 6:12, and the ones over whom the Lord triumphed by reason of the cross. Others seem to be more closely associated with the Church. Some are learning by the Church the manifold wisdom of God (Eph. 3:10), and are linked with the Church of the One Body by having Christ as a common Head (Col. 2:10).
Looking to the creations of Colossians 1:16 and their relation to the pre-eminence of the Son of God, it becomes manifest that we are not dealing here with such creatures as enumerated in Psalm 8:7 -
‘All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; the fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the sea’.
- but with mighty powers and beings over whom the Lord Jesus Christ is pre-eminent. The whole enumeration has reference to visible and invisible dominions and spiritual powers where it would seem some of these mighty beings not only antagonized the Church (Eph. 6:12) and Israel (Dan. 10), but attacked the pre-eminence of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and it is the reconciliation of these ‘all things’ with which Colossians 1 is particularly concerned. Chapter 2 also shows that the opposition of these angelic powers in reference to ‘holding the Head’ is still prominent in the apostles inspired writing.
Note too, man is not mentioned in verse 16, for man is not included in the all things enumerated in that verse, he is treated quite separately in verse 18 of Colossians 1, as included in the Church. The reconciliation of the all things (ta panta) looks back to those spiritual powers on earth, or in heaven, and man is introduced into the subject of reconciliation quite separately in verse 21.
1 Peter 3:22 emphasizes the subjection of angelic and spiritual powers to the risen Lord:
‘Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities (exousia) and powers (dunamis) being made subject unto Him’.
Romans 8:38,39 includes them among the possible agencies antagonistic to the believer:
‘For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come (Eph. 1:21), nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord’.
It appears those angelic dominions are ranged under two heads, some antagonistic to the Lord and His people, and some under the Lord as Head both now and in the fulness of the seasons (Eph. 1:10).
‘That in the dispensation of the fulness of the seasons He might gather together under one Head the all things (ta panta) in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth in Him’.
Colossians 1:16,17,18 and 20 reads ‘all things’, but inspired writings note THE all things are different than all things, each limited through context.
Summary:
Some gentiles were the offspring of Isaac. They were not just any 'ol gentile, and certainly not all the nations of the world. The kingdom promises were being offered to Israel. The apostles were sent to Israel after 40 days of Bible seminar with by the risen Lord Christ Jesus, after the eyes of their understanding were supernaturally opened, therefore they asked in Acts1, if the Lord would restore the KINGDOM TO ISRAEL at that time.
Israel had 18 years of preaching opportunity to receive this kingdom offer. Meanwhile, Paul had spent three years with the Lord in Arabia (Gal 1:16-18), then preached to gentiles beginning in A.D.46. Had they yet reTurned to the Lord, those same gentiles would have been ruled by covenant promise by Israel, for the miraculous signs and wonders were 'the powers of the world to come', now awaits the thousand years where Israel is again taken up as the object of the Lord's love and grace.
‘Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles’ (Act 13:46).
So where does Paul go?
'...into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed' (Act 14:1).
'Now...they came to...a synagogue of the Jews: Paul, as his manner' (Act 17:1-2).
Acts 28. 28 marks the declartion of dispensational boundry, and His body revealed to the nations by Paul the prisoner, the expanded plan of the ages made known. The all things which are to be put under His feet in the earth are not the same the all things under His feet in the heavenlies, whence the Head is united with His body, the church - the gifts and calling of God are without change of mind (Rom 11:29 ).
Angels seem to be linked with Israel, Christ the King Priest and Lord. Fulness.
Whereas
Principalities, authorities, thrones, lordships to Christ, Head of the body the church. Fulness.
Pleroma.
Don't take my word for it.
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