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Topic: Contradition and errors in the Bible?????
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
HisGrace wrote quote:
These numbers could have been inerrantly transcribed from the Hebrew language, because 22 apparently looks a lot like 42.
Re the bolded word, I made the same mistake in my post but I fixed it. It should be errantly, not inerrantly, with "errantly" meaning "mistakenly" and "inerrantly" meaning "not mistakenly".
God bless, BORN AGAIN
Oops - of course. Sometimes we are too hasty and don't think. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) Thanks for pointing that out BA.
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BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace wrote quote:
These numbers could have been inerrantly transcribed from the Hebrew language, because 22 apparently looks a lot like 42.
Re the bolded word, I made the same mistake in my post but I fixed it. It should be errantly, not inerrantly, with "errantly" meaning "mistakenly" and "inerrantly" meaning "not mistakenly".
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois
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Yes, just as the sixth hour could be either noon or midnight, they had, for all intensive purposes, two years each literal year.
They were, indeed, a seperated nation, seperated in every way from all other nation. And thier year did not begin where our does, as was noted in the post.
here is an interesting Hebrew Calandar site.
The Hebrew calendar is a lunisolar calendar. The months are linked to the phases of the moon, but the beginning of the year is linked to the seasons. To accomplish this, the Hebrew calendar does not have the same number of months in every year. Some years have 12 months and about 354 days, and some have an extra "leap" month and about 384 days. The alternation between ordinary and leap years follows a fixed pattern in a cycle of 19 years (the Cycle of Meton), because it was noted already more than 2,000 years ago that 19 years (6939.60 days) is almost equal to 235 lunar months (6939.69 days). The Hebrew calendar has year 1 at what they considered to be the beginning of the world, at 7 October -3760 (3761 BC) of the Julian calendar.
http://www.sunspot.noao.edu/PR/answerbook/calendar-main.html#hebrew
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Carmela
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I don't know if this was covered, but I'm doing a report on the Feast of Trumpets and found this contradiction explained so thought I would put it here.
New Year or Rosh Hashanah. Before looking further into the theological meaning of the Feast of the Trumpets, it might be well to clarify how this feast became known as Rosh Hashanah, "the beginning of the year," though it was observed on the first day of the seventh month.
The answer to this apparent contradiction is found in the fact that the Jews had both a religious and civil calendar. The religious calendar, which regulated the festivals, began in the spring, in accordance with God’s command at the time of the Exodus: "This month shall be for you the beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year for your" (Ex 12:2; cf. Deut 16:1). The first month in the religious year was the month in which the Israelites left Egypt and celebrated Passover, the feast of their redemption. It was originally called Abib "the month of the ears," but after the Babylonian exile was named Nisan. It began at our new moon of our March or April.
The civil and agricultural year, as well as the sabbatical and jubilee years, began in the autumn with the seventh month, which after the Babylonian exile became known as Tishri. If it seems strange that the Jews should begin their civil year on the seventh month, it may be well to remember that even in our society the fiscal year for many organizations begins in other months than January.
There are indications that prior to the Exodus the Israelites’ calendar began in the autumn. In the book of Exodus, for example, though the month of Abib (Nisan) is designated as the first month (Ex 12:3), the Feast of Ingathering or Tabernacles in the seventh month (Tishri) is said to come "at the year’s end" (Ex 34:22). We find a similar expression in Exodus 23:16: "You shall keep the feast of ingathering at the end of the year, when you gather in from the field the fruit of your labor." Since the Feast of Ingathering celebrated the bounties of the agricultural year which had just closed, it was seen as marking the end of the year, although the feast actually began 15 days after the end of the year.
The seasonal cycle of nature came to an end with the fall harvest, which marked also the beginning of a new agricultural cycle with the return of the early rains that softened the ground for plowing which was done in October and November. This contributed to place the beginning of the civil and agricultural year on the month of Tishri, though it was the seven month with respect to Nisan. Thus the Jews had a double reckoning, the religious year beginning with the first month and the civil year beginning with the seven month.
Josephus, the famous Jewish historian, says that the Egyptians began their year on the fall, but "Moses appointed that Nisan, which is the same with Xantichus [the corresponding macedonian month name], should be their first month for their festivals, because he brought them out of Egypt in that month: so this month began the year as to all the solemnities they observed to the honor of God, although he preserved the original order of the months as to selling and buying, and other ordinary affairs."2 According to Josephus, then, when Moses introduced the spring (Nisan) beginning of the year for the religious calendar, he retained the Egyptian beginning of the new year in the fall for civil purposes. This information accords with the references mentioned earlier to the Feast of Ingathering coming "at the end of the year" (Ex23:16; 34:22).
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epouraniois
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quote:
HisGrace
These numbers could have been inerrantly transcribed from the Hebrew language, because 22 apparently looks a lot like 42.
Saul had been anointed for two years. When the anointing comes upon a person, God uses that person. In this case it is described thus:
1Sa 10:6 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
So Saul had been changed into another man by the anointing which follows the subject through those chapters, he had been changed for two years, it was not that his actual age was two years at the time of the event.
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hardcore
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quote:
epouraniois wrote:
"I don't see how anyone could question God in the matter of if by His Word He is able to keep it safe. I cannot see it as being a valid issue at all. I havn't studied it all, not even in a thousand lifetimes could I fully plumb the depths of God's Word, but I have yet to find a contradiction. Being that God cannot contradict Himself, if we find one, it is most surely a problem on our end, providing us an oportunity to dig into His Word ever deeper."
I agree 100%.
quote:
Born Again wrote:
"However, this is how I feel about them. When the Holy Spirit of God "deigns" to use us proud and sinful humans as "co-authors", God knew that "He had a problem".
and
"And I know that He had a problem."
Huh? Do humans really cause God to have problems? I don't think so. It's the same thing as trying to say God can't do something because of something we do or don't do.
God can do anything He wants at any time and is most certainly capable of having His Word written and preserved properly.
epouraniois is right. If we think we find a contradiction, the problem is on our end. It's not God's error or the error of His chosen writers.
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hardcore
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quote:
epouraniois wrote:
"I don't see how anyone could question God in the matter of if by His Word He is able to keep it safe. I cannot see it as being a valid issue at all. I havn't studied it all, not even in a thousand lifetimes could I fully plumb the depths of God's Word, but I have yet to find a contradiction. Being that God cannot contradict Himself, if we find one, it is most surely a problem on our end, providing us an oportunity to dig into His Word ever deeper."
I agree 100%.
quote:
Born Again wrote:
"However, this is how I feel about them. When the Holy Spirit of God "deigns" to use us proud and sinful humans as "co-authors", God knew that "He had a problem".
and
"And I know that He had a problem."
Huh? Do humans really cause God to have problems? I don't think so. It's the same thing as trying to say God can't do something because of something we do or don't do.
God can do anything He wants at any time and is most certainly capable of having His Word written and preserved properly.
epouraniois is right. If we think we find a contradiction, the problem is on our end. It's not God's error or the error of His chosen writers.
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HisGrace
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Phase II of my response -
No contraditions in these passages:
Gen 2:17 says "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day thou eastest thereof thou shalt surely die [note: it doesn't say 'spiritual' death] Gen 5:5 says "And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."
Spritiual death in the Bible is freqeuntly referred to as simply 'death.'
Proverbs 23:14 Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death. (which means eternal damnation)
Matt 1:16 says, "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus..." Luke 3:23 says "And Jesus...the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli"
quote:
It has been said, also, that Joseph was the legal son and heir of Heli, though the real son of Jacob, and thus the two lines terminated in him. This was the ancient explanation of most of the fathers, and on the whole is the most satisfactory. It was a law of the Jews, that if a man died without children, his brother should marry his widow. Thus the two lines might have been intermingled. According to this solution, which was first proposed by Africanus, Matthan, descended from Solomon, married Estha, of whom was born Jacob. After Matthan's death, Matthat being of the same tribe, but of another family, remarried his widow, and of this marriage Heli was born. Jacob and Heli were therefore children of the same mother.] Heli dying without children, his brother Jacob married his widow, and begat Joseph, who was thus the legal son of Heli. This is agreeable to the account in the two evangelists. Matthew says that Jacob begat Joseph; Luke says that Joseph was the son of Heli; that is, was his legal heir, or reckoned in law to be his son. This can be seen by the plan on the next page, showing the nature of the connection.
James 1:13 says "..for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." Gen 22:1 says "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..."
It is impossible for God to tempt anyone to sin, but he gave Abraham a test of faith to show his total commitment to God. The KJ version is the only one out of four versions that I saw that used the word 'tempt'; the others used the word 'test.' However, whatever the terminology, it was not God's intent to bring evil on Abraham.
Luke 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." John 19:30 "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
This is just a different in interpretation by Luke and John. This minor difference doesn't take away from the Truth of the event as a whole.
Gen 32:30 states "...for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." John 1:18 states, "No man hath seen God at any time..."
In Genesis 32 God took the form of a man and wrestled with Jacob, so John 1:18 stands true.
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by_grace
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How many men did David kill, 700 (II Sam. 10:18) or 7,000 (I Chron 19:18)?
1. II Sam. 10:18 "And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians,"
2. I Chron. 19:18 "But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots,"
Explanation of supposed contradiction:
Since they had ten men per chariot both verses are fine.
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To "love thy neighbor as thyself" is not expressed by forfeiting, twisting or reinterpreting the Word of God for the cause of unity. It is expressed by hearing, obeying and proclaiming the whole council of God regardless of whom it might offend.
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BORN AGAIN
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yes, HisGrace, apparently some numbers in Hebrew are very, very similar-looking, and were, over time, mis-copied. It appears that "most errors" relate to the copying of "numbers" which looked very similar.
No big deal.
BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace
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I would like to respond to the initial post, which was made by shadowmaker. I am going to do it in two parts.
2 Kings 8:26 says "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..." 2 Chronicles 22:2 says "Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..."
These numbers could have been errantly transcribed from the Hebrew language, because 22 apparently looks a lot like 42. However, this does mean that it contradicts the Truth of the message. I found four versions which said that he was 22 yrs. old and the KJV and the Amp said forty and two.
2 Samuel 6:23 says "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death" 2 Samuel 21:8 says "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul"
Saul had two daughters, named Michal and Merab. Michal married David and was later given in marriage to Paltiel. Merab was given in marriage to Adriel.
2 Samuel 21:8 is actually speaking about Merab, because verse goes on to say together with the five sons of Saul's daughter Merab, whom she had borne to Adriel son of Barzillai the Meholathite
the KJV is the only one that says Michal in 2 Samuel 21:8, 6 others say Merab.
(1)2 Samuel 8:3-4 says "David smote also Hadadezer...and took from him...seven hundred horsemen..." 1 Chronicles 18:3-4 says "David smote Hadarezer...and took from him...seven thousand horsemen..."
(2)1 Kings 4:26 says "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots..." 2 Chronicles 9:25 says "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots..."
(3)2 Kings 25:8 says "And in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month...Nebuzaradan...came...unto Jerusalem" Jeremiah 52:12 says "...in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month...came Nebuzaradan...into Jerusalem"
Once again there seemed to be a problem with transcribing numbers from the Hebrew language in the above last three examples. I don't think we can say that it contradicts the message as a whole.
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BORN AGAIN
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timpspong writes quote:
The Bible is the living Word. I believe the level of meaning changes as we mature. As we develop the “contradictions” tend to disappear as we get a higher grasp of the Truth. {bold by BA}
This is ostrich thinking. I have "matured" and "developed" over 25 years and I still cannot answer the contradictions of this Topic.
I think it is wrong to stick our proverbial ostrich "heads in the sand" and act like these "contradictions" will somehow disappear as we "develop spiritually" or "mature".
The contradictions are real and in the Bible, and came about, no doubt, through the agency of men who are sinners by nature.
Things crept into the main text from margin notes by well-meaning copyists and editors, as each individual church developed its manuscripts, until finally the need became apparently for one cohesive, manuscript which "reconciled" the variances which had developed over the decades within the individual church manuscripts.
The same process of "firming" up happened to the Old Testament manuscripts until it became a "settled and accepted canon", in the condition it was in by then.
It is instead amazing that the Bible contains as few contradictions as it still contains. But, no big deal, all the contradictions are small and none are central to the message of salvation.
When God uses sinful men as co-authors, He expected nothing less. He is probably very pleased with the way it came out in the end, as in "phew!, that came out pretty good considering the risky process I used!"
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace
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Great post timspong. Because we are all at different levels of spirituality, it is important to share the discernment we each glean from the scriptures.
Our enlightenment may give someone just the right word for some trial that they are going through in their lives at that moment.
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timspong
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The Bible is the living Word. I believe the level of meaning changes as we mature. As we develop the “contradictions” tend to disappear as we get a higher grasp of the Truth.
That is also the beauty of parables they allow a continuum of low to high levels of perception ‘in-line’ with the maturity level of the recipient.
It is also fascinating listening to what people say sometimes. They intend to speak with meaning at their own level, however, one can sometime perceive a higher level of meaning that comes from the condition of their heart.
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Yours in Christ
Timothy Michael Spong
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Carmela
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BA I just don't know enough about it to express it the way it was told to me. However, he said that some of the things in the bible that we interpret one way actually have a different meaning back then. He also said that some how the 2 contradictions usually fit together in some way...or something like that.
This teacher lives an hour and half away so he doesn't teach every quarter and his wife is ill right now so I can't really ask him to clarify it to me again. He went into so much detail that if I tried to explain I wouldn't do it justice and I would probably mess it up, definitely mess it up actually.
He also said something about the wording and going back to the original language because when the bible was translated into english, some of the words in the original languages couldn't be interpreted. Everyone knows the example of the different words for love. He said if you go back and look at the original language, culture, and stuff like that then we see there really aren't any contradictions. It isn't a mistake in the bible, it's usually our interpretation of what is written that is off base.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
The Holy Spirit's version was no doubt "inerrant" but once man got a hold of it over time, and as i said in the above, after collating the individual church manuscripts into one manuscript, after man got a hold of the Holy Spirit's inerrant version, the version was a bit inerrant.
I cannot concern myself with trying to pick and choose what is correct or incorrect about the Bible. Personally, I have to be totally open and receptive to approaching the scriptures with a child-like naivety, or all discernment may be blocked into finding delicate vignettes of wisdom. The communicating spirit to above has become disrupted.
As Caretaker says,"One will find certain minor transcription errors in the different versions available, but they in no way effect the meaning, intent, or message of God's Word."
Also, I don't think there are any contradictions - just misunderstandings. Sometimes these 'contradictions' are clarified in another part of the Bible.
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BORN AGAIN
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sister HisGrace wrote quote:
I believe that the Bible is totally inerrant. It is human interpretation/insight that is errant.
Can you answer even one of the Topic "proposed contradictions", HisGrace?
The Holy Spirit's version was no doubt "inerrant" but once man got a hold of it over time, and as i said in the above, after collating the individual church manuscripts into one manuscript, after man got a hold of the Holy Spirit's inerrant version, the version was a bit errant.
But I kind of like it that way, and I wouldn't be surprised if God designed it a little bit that way. Why? Because it provides stumbling blocks, places the proud unbeliever can hang his hat on.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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BORN AGAIN
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sister Carmela writes quote:
I still don't totally understand it, he said they are not contradictions
.sister, go back to the Topic and read each one.
Tell me sincerely, "can you answer even one of them"? I could not answer even one. So I have to conclude that they are human errors because the Holy Spirit does not make mistakes.
Now when could these mistakes have been made? Initially, each church, in Asia, in Syria, in Babylon, in Alexandria, in Antioch, in Iconium, and on and on, each had their own manuscripts of one book of the early gospel or "eyewitness accounts".
Eventually, the manuscripts of each church center, geographically distantly separated from each other, had errors of numbers or other errors keep in, all minor in nature in terms of what needs to be said for salvation.
But eventually the need was recognized to "collect" and "gather" all these indidivual churches' manuscript and come up with a "more universal" church manuscript, which, for better or worse, "made the best" of the numerous individual church manuscripts.
By that time, the few small errors mentioned by this Topic were "reconciled as best they could by the editors" of the "one-manuscript project", so to speak.
God let it go.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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yahsway
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He Lives, Yes the "complete Jewish Bible" has both the old and new testaments. It translation is by David H. Stern, a Jewish believer in Messiah Yeshua. Shalom
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HisGrace
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I believe that the Bible is totally inerrant. It is human interpretation/insight that is errant.
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HE LIVES
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yeshuaslavejeff,
Does the complete jewish bible have the new testament in it? That may be a dumb question, but I was just wondering. I have thought about buying one but I just didn't know much about it.
Thanks
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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epouraniois
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This one bothered me, so I looked it up:
James 1:13 says "..for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." Gen 22:1 says "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..."
God was not tempting Abraham, He was trying, or proving Abraham, and not with evil.
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epouraniois
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2Sa 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bore unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite
2 Samuel 6:23 says "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death" 2 Samuel 21:8 says "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul"
So, you see, they weren't her sons after all.
2 Samuel 8:3-4 says "David smote also Hadadezer...and took from him...seven hundred horsemen..." 1 Chronicles 18:3-4 says "David smote Hadarezer...and took from him...seven thousand horsemen..."
Rehob was the first king of this part of Syria, and then his son the second and last; he is called Hadarezer in 1Ch 18:3
here 2 Samuel - the chief officers are meant, there 1 Chronicles - all the chariots and horsemen that were under their command are mentioned
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epouraniois
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Look at what kind of power superintends this great Book of His:
Psa 33:6
By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
Psa 33:8
Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
Psa 33:9
For he spoke, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
Psa 33:11
The counsel of the LORD standeth forever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
I believe He is able to safeguard His Holy and Living Word, that no man or even all men can overstand this mighty power.
Heb 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
I don't see how anyone could question God in the matter of if by His Word He is able to keep it safe. I cannot see it as being a valid issue at all. I havn't studied it all, not even in a thousand lifetimes could I fully plumb the depths of God's Word, but I have yet to find a contradiction. Being that God cannot contradict Himself, if we find one, it is most surely a problem on our end, providing us an oportunity to dig into His Word ever deeper.
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Carmela
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I spoke to someone about this once and although I still don't know much about it, he said that things appear to be contradictions, but they are really not. They are just written differently. For instance, I say sweep the floor and my husband says broom the floor. We are from different cultures but the same meaning applies.
Other than that, I have no idea but I believe the word of God in it's entirety because I know that what is God inspired would not have mistakes. Each story, even every tool used in the story was done exactly the way it was and each had deep spiritual meaning. Like the Tabernacle for example. Every piece of wood, nail, material used had a significant spiritual meaning behind it. I spoke to someone about this once and although I still don't totally understand it, he said they are not contradictions. For instance, when I saw the first example given, I thought that 2 20's make 40.
The teacher I spoke to said something about things being written in different ways, but actually mean the same thing in the end. For
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BORN AGAIN
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adopted brother Caretaker writes quote:
The copies of those documents are not inspired. We have copies of inspired documents.
Really? The copies of those documents are not inspired? Only the minor transcription errors are not inspired, but the rest of it the Holy Spirit is pleased with and is glad that it made it that well "through" sinful men, so to speak, loud and clear enough for salvation. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, brother Caretaker.
Thankfully, you scramble back soon, to make the copies inspired again:
quote:
One will find certain minor transcription errors in the different versions available, but they in no way effect the meaning, intent, or message of God's Word.
Of course they do not affect the meaning, intent, and message of God's Word.
God Elohim bless, BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois
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Come on now, none of these things are THAT terribly difficult, all one needs do is look up the words and see how they are being used, not in the English, but in the language of the translation, i.e., Greek in the following example.
Joh 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
No man has seen God, as to His divine essence, at any time.
The manifestation of God in Exo 33:23 was of His hinder parts, not of, as is stated in John, His essence. The seeing intended here is seeing of the divine essence rather than of the divine person or His physical attributes, which also is indicated by the absence of the article from Θεὸν, God.
No man has seen the nature of God, the Son hath declared Him.
Sure, in the dark candle light, after a break from teh need to go outside after drinking much water, the eyes could have tricked someone to put a dash where a line should have been, thus altering one letter, but fundementally, we have a great copy of the original, and the Dead Sea Scrolls prove that,for if they had been different at all from the AV, the sound would still be going around the world that the Bible was corrupted, but it ain't.
Likewise in Luke, Jesus the son of Joeseph, Jesus, the son of Heli, Jesus the son of Matthat must be carried all the way through. One liniage is the royal regal liniage while one is the royal legal liniage, hence they carry a different number as well as different names, one going back to adam, one not going that far.
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yeshuaslavejeff
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
One will find certain minor transcription errors in the different versions available, but they in no way effect the meaning, intent, or message of God's Word.
perhaps
I am not, NOT, a kjv fan - I prefer the complete
jewish bible and even the message before kjv.
However, defenders of kfv "only"(which I disagree)
do show extensive pertinent changes made on purpose in SOME later translations, changes that are small at first glance, but are used
: to deny the fullness
of Yeshua's Messianic Life and Sacrifice,
:to distort discipleship/church life
:to corrupt innocent learners/seekers and
deny them ability to read the truth
I am not 'scholarly' enough to point these all out
or to try and defend/correct the points - only
please be aware that many translations have
PURPOSEFUL errors meant to deceive.
Yhwh, through much discipline and pain and agony and trial and error, at all cost, revealed and
continues to reveal the truth to His 'infants'
As Yeshua said:"IF you love the Truth, MY FATHER
HIMSELF WILL TEACH YOU THE TRUTH ABOUT ALL THINGS"
Yeshua says elsewhere also, it will cost you all
everything to be my disciple. (i.e. love of truth
in reality requires forsaking everything/anything
else, regarding even PHD's as menstral rags in
comparison with the unriveled Salvation/Healing :
Righteousness given, Peace untakeable, Joy!!! in
Yhwh's Glory requested by Yeshua for His disciples
and all who believe in Him after them.
In short, don't be dismayed by the apparent
inconsistancies nor apparent contradictions that
someone else will try to convince you of - they
are all false,based on man's or demon's intrusion: the Original Scripture is True and Correct, and Yhwh Himself confirms it always.
Same with doctrines of different churches - they
cannot compete with truth, nor accomplish Yhwh's
Plan in Yeshua, but may serve as guideposts for
Yhwh to influence someone. So don't be tricked
into accepting something as truth if it doesn't
seem right in your inner man(where Yhwh teaches);
let it rest with Him, until He provides the answer.He is Always Faithful, while all men fail.
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1Peter4:1,2 Yeshua suffered physical suffering:disciples have same mind/ willingness to share shame/physical suffering with Yeshua/His people.
Biblio:"willtherealhereticsplease standup?"byBercot(churchTruth)
Posts: 75 | From: tulsa | Registered: Mar 2005
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
The doctrine of the inspiration of the Bible means that the Bible in the original documents is God-breathed, that they are a divine product, and because they are divine, they are inerrant in the original documents. The copies of those documents are not inspired. We have copies of inspired documents.
One will find certain minor transcription errors in the different versions available, but they in no way effect the meaning, intent, or message of God's Word.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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BORN AGAIN
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posted
Hey, Shadowmaker, those were some terrific illustrations. I for one had "no explanation for any of them".
And not for want of trying. I had to admit that those appear to be contradictions.
However, this is how I feel about them. When the Holy Spirit of God "deigns" to use us proud and sinful humans as "co-authors", God knew that "He had a problem".
And I know that He had a problem. The result of the Holy Spirit interacting with the chosen apostolic vessels who were chosen by the Holy Spirit to "co-author" and "re-chronicle" the "events of the recent past" ended up, well, like they did.
I am more in the camp of the following brothers who wrote:
Luke 1
1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
2 Even as they delivered them to us, who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word;
3 And it seemed good to ME also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you in order, most excellent Theophilus.
And when it comes to the Topic contradictions, that's a fine collection, I have NEVER seen and known about those.
But I'm with Luke and also with the apostle John, who wrote:
John 21
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
I think the Holy Spirit is pleased overall with the Bible which He got when He decided to "co-author His Book" with us, with the help and coaching and counsel of the Holy Spirit, enough of which was heard and understood and reproduced faithfully enough by the apostles and gospel writes that "it is enough that a person can get saved thereby".
"Lord of my heart" BORN AGAIN by the
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epouraniois
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posted
I know the first one, I didn't look at the others, but the first one falls under the catagory of Bible enigmas.
2 Kings 8:26 says "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..."
this is saying, in the Hebrew, that our hero here, Saul, was two years old when he began to riegn, which is why some versions left the verse out.
Here it the answer:
1Sa 10:6 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
Saul was two years into the Lord's anointing when he began to reign.
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shadowmaker
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Member # 3696
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posted
I saw this posted somewhere, anyone have some input?
2 Kings 8:26 says "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..." 2 Chronicles 22:2 says "Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..."
2 Samuel 6:23 says "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death" 2 Samuel 21:8 says "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul"
2 Samuel 8:3-4 says "David smote also Hadadezer...and took from him...seven hundred horsemen..." 1 Chronicles 18:3-4 says "David smote Hadarezer...and took from him...seven thousand horsemen..."
1 Kings 4:26 says "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots..." 2 Chronicles 9:25 says "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots..."
2 Kings 25:8 says "And in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month...Nebuzaradan...came...unto Jerusalem" Jeremiah 52:12 says "...in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month...came Nebuzaradan...into Jerusalem"
1 Samuel 31:4-6 says "...Saul took a sword and fell upon it. And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead and...died with him. So Saul died..." 2 Samuel 21:12 says "...the Philistines had slain Saul in Gilboa."
Gen 2:17 says "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day thou eastest thereof thou shalt surely die [note: it doesn't say 'spiritual' death] Gen 5:5 says "And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."
Matt 1:16 says, "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus..." Luke 3:23 says "And Jesus...the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli"
James 1:13 says "..for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." Gen 22:1 says "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..."
Gen 6:20 says "Of fowls after their kind and of cattle [etc.]...two of every sort shall come unto thee..." Gen 7:2,3 says "Of every clean beast thou shall take to thee by sevens...Of fowls also of the air by sevens..."
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." John 19:30 "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
Gen 32:30 states "...for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." John 1:18 states, "No man hath seen God at any time..."
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jul 2004
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