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Topic: A Look at Exodus 1
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epouraniois
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It is good to see you searching to see if a thing is so. The Lord had provided a beautiful picture of nations being blessed by Israel, twelve springs watering seventy palm trees. Remember too, that the people received Christ as Lord, for a moment, and laid Palm leaves = the red carpet of kings, but it was DUTY of the Sanhedrin to announce Christ as Lord, and never is the kings duty to announce himself. It is all type and shadow of the true.
Gill says of the "he" in Genesis 9, while I believe that both God and the descendants both are true:
and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; inhabit the countries belonging to the posterity of Shem: this was verified by the Medes, who were the descendants of Japheth, together with the Babylonians seizing upon the Assyrian empire and overthrowing that, for Ashur was of Shem; and in the Greeks and Romans, who sprung from Japheth, when they made conquests in Asia, in which were the tents of Shem's posterity; and who, according to the prophecy in Num_24:24 that ships from the coast of Chittim, Greece, or Italy, or both, should afflict Ashur and Eber, the Assyrians and the Hebrews, or those beyond the river Euphrates, who all belonged to Shem; and particularly this was fulfilled when the Romans, who are of Japheth, seized Judea, which had long been the seat of the children of Shem, the Jews; and at this day the Turks (s), who are also Japheth's sons, literally dwell in the tents of Shem, or inhabit Judea: the Targums understand this in a mystical sense. Onkelos thus:"God shall cause his Shechinah or glorious Majesty to dwell in the tents of Shem;''which was remarkably true, when Christ, the brightness of his Father's glory, the Word, was made flesh, and tabernacled in Judea: Jonathan Ben Uzziel thus;"and his children shall be proselytes, and dwell in the school of Shem;''and many Christian writers interpret them of the conversion of the Gentiles, and of their union and communion with the believing Jews in one Gospel church state, which was very evidently fulfilled in the first times of the Gospel: and they read these words in connection with the former clause thus, "God shall persuade Japheth (t), and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem"; that is, God shall persuade the Gentiles, the posterity of Japheth, by the sweet alluring voice of his Gospel, and through the power of his grace accompanying it, to embrace and profess Christ and his Gospel, and join with his churches, and walk with them in all the commandments and ordinances of Christ; and at this day all the posterity of Japheth, excepting Magog, or the Turks, bear the name of Christians: the Talmudists (u) interpret the passage of the language of Japheth being spoken in the tents of Shem; which had its accomplishment when the apostles of Christ spoke and wrote in Greek, one of the languages of Japheth's sons. Some understand this of God himself, he shall dwell in the tents of Shem, or in Israel, as Jarchi, and was verified remarkably in the incarnation of the Son of God:
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BORN AGAIN
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adopted brother epouraniois writes quote:
The picture we are given is of twelve springs (tribes of Israel) watering seventy palm trees (nations). The nations, and you can count them, are the children of Shem, Japeth, and Ham, Israel become then, the seventy first nation.
When I first read that, epouraniois, I thought, "he's reading too much into this text again, almost kind of New Agey".
But here is the verse you apparently are referring to:
Exodus 15:27
And they came to Elim, where were 12 wells of water, and 70 palm trees: and they encamped there by the waters.
brother epouraniois, you may very well be right. If the number of sons of Shem, Ham and Japheth were 70, as you say, then I could see that it could be possible that the 12 springs of water of Elim represented the 12 tribes of Shemite Israel who would "water" the 70 nations, the sons of Shem, Ham and Japheth "with the Word of God" which was to "come through Shem":
Genesis 9:26
And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
Genesis 9:27
And God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
In Genesis 9:27 above, who is "he" in the phrase, "and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem".
I think that "he" is God who says, "God shall enlarge Japheth, and "he {meaning, God} shall dwell in the tents of Shem" (and Ham shall kind of be the servant nations to Japheth and Shem, it seems).
Not much historically is preached about Japheth. But I think a lot of the Gentile church of Israel comes from Japheth.
For instance, one son of Japheth was Javan:
Genesis 10:2
The sons of Japheth: Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal and Meshech, and Tiras.
Genesis 10:4
And the sons of Javan: Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim {the island of Cypress}, and Dodanim.
Japheth Javan became Grecia (whenever the English KJV says "Grecia", in Hebrew the word is "Javan".
"Javan" beame "Ionia" or the west coast of Turkey or west Asia, and also became Greece and Aegean islands. All that is Japhetic.
Note also that other sons of Japheth are the dreaded Japhetic [b]Magog and Japhetic Gomer and Japhetic Meshech and Tubal who were still around in Ezekiel's day:
Ezekiel 38
1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
4And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
7Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.
8After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
All Japhethites, Magog, Gomer, Meschech, Tubal.
Revelation 20
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Japhethites.
G_d bless, BORN AGAIN ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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epouraniois
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The picture we are given is of twelve springs (tribes of Israel) watering seventy palm trees (nations). The nations, and you can count them, are the children of Shem, Japeth, and Ham, Isreal become then, the seventy first nation.
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BORN AGAIN
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What's interesting to me is that the Bible says that the tribe of Israel in the land of Goshen had become "mightier than us", with mightier presumably meaning "stronger than us".
If that's the case, then how could the Hamite Misr Egyptians impose taskmasters over the tribe of Israel in the land of Goshen if the tribe of Israel was "more than us"?
Only if the tribe of Israel had no weapons.
Now Abraham and Sarah's camps had at least 318 armed men, born in their household, and they travelled as a large, armed camp in those days.
To travel with too few weapons was to invite attack in those days.
So it is interesting that the tribe of Israel in the land of Goshen must have had no weapons because otherwise they would have been able to defend themselves.
Isaac and Rebekah inherited "all that Abraham had" and they too were a large armed camp.
But Jacob's case was a little different, in that the God of Abraham and Isaac had to bless Jacob anew with riches, which God Elohim did with uncle Laban.
But when Jacob left with his sons from Beersheba to go join his son Joseph who is now Vice-Pharaoh in Misr Egypt, Jacob took their herds and flocks and it would be surprising if Jacob did not also take an armed camp with him because Jacob must have had an armed camp to protect themselves.
In the days before regular army and police forces, no one travelled alone, there always had to be armed persons along. Seeing another caravan approaching in the distance was always a worry.
I'm saying all this, what could Jacob and his 11 sons and their families have done with all their armed men and servants which they must have had?
That's what baffles me now. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
May the God of Israel bless all of us, I am BORN AGAIN by the of Yahshua-Jesus of Nazareth but born in Bethlehem of Judah, as Micah 5:2 said. ("...just fishin'...")
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BORN AGAIN
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dear brother epouraniois, you write quote:
Interesting, I keep thinking about the 70 souls of v.5, and the 70 nations they had been taken out of.
Which 70 nations are that, sir?
with Christian love, BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois
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Interesting, I keep thinking about the 70 souls of v.5, and the 70 natins they had been taken out of. And too, the enmity of Gen. 3. 15, trying to prevent the seed from fulfilling the volume of the Book.
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BORN AGAIN
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Exodus 1
1Now these are the names of the children of Israel, who came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob.
2Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah,
3Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin,
BORN AGAIN: The above are the 6 sons of Leah and the 1 son of Rachel. Note that the sons of the real wives of Jacob are mentioned first by the Holy Spirit.
4Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher.
BORN AGAIN: The above are the 4 sons of the concubines Zilpah and Bilhah.
5And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were 70 souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already.
BORN AGAIN: Genesis 46:26 mentions that:
"All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were 66; and Joseph and his wife Asenath and their two sons Manasseh and Ephraim made 4 persons, for a total of 70 Jacob-Israelites now in Misr Egypt.
6And Joseph died, and all his brothers, and all that generation.
7And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them.
BORN AGAIN: The land always only referred to the land of Goshen where the children of Israel dwelled until the Exodus.
8Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, who did not know Joseph.
BORN AGAIN: It has been proposed that Joseph had been Governor over the Hamite Misr Nile floodplain only, during a time when the two Misr Egyptian kingdoms, the Hamite Misr Egyptian Nile floodplain kingdom and the Hamite Misr Nile valley kingdom were separate kingdoms.
When these two Misr Egyptian kingdoms were united under one warlord-Pharaoh, that Pharaoh wore the double crown of Misr Egypt.
In light of the above, when verse 8 above says:
8Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, who did not know Joseph.
One possibility is that Joseph was Governor for the warlord-Pharaoh who only ruled over the Nile floodplain, and that the "king who did not know Joseph" came from the south Misr Nile valley which was 300 and 400 and 500 miles south of the Nile floodplain kingdom.
In particular, this "king who did not know Joseph" was probably from the Karnak-Thebes-Luxor kingdom of the middlesouth Misr Nile river whose warlords also ruled over the Nile floodplain, and this warlord from Karnak-Thebes-Luxor had never heard of Joseph who had been Governor in the Misr Nile floodplain kingdom only.
There are some problems with this theory, but this will do for now.
9And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we are:
10Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land.
BORN AGAIN: The land of Goshen was almost certainly the ancient valley Tumilat (now called Tirat el Ismaiilya) in the east Nile floodplain.
Did the children of Israel have weapons in the the land of Goshen? Israel probably had their shepherd/cattle breeder weapons with them for when Israel forages their flocks and herds in the pastureland north and south of valley Tumilat in the east Nile floodplain (which almost certainly was the land of Goshen).
But the Israelites in the land of Goshen probably had not had a need for weapons of war when the Israelites had grown abundant and strong in the land of Goshen.
11Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses.
12But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they {the Hamite Misr Egyptians} were grieved because of the children of Israel.
13And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigour:
14And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, was with rigour.
15And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:
16And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.
BORN AGAIN: What advantage was there to killing the male babies but keeping the female babies? In India female babies are being aborted if the parents already have a female baby, because the dowry the parents have to pay for a female daughter can impoverish a family.
But in the context of Misr Egypt, was Pharaoh merely saving the female Israelite babies to use them as slaves? Probably so.
And if Pharaoh killed all the male babies for a time, Pharaoh would also reduce the size of the tribe of Israel, which probably was partially his intent, while still keeping enough Israelites to use for slave labor later.
17But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the male children alive.
18And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said to them, Why have you done this thing, and have saved the male children alive?
19And the midwives said to Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Misr Egyptian women are; for they are lively and are delivered before the midwives come in unto them.
20Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.
21And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.
22And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born you shall cast into the river, and every daughter you shall save alive.
Ha, ha, ha...Pharaoh charged all his people, as if Pharaoh can keep up with the God Elohim of Israel...ha, ha, ha.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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