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Topic: who are called and who are chosen?
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WildB
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posted
Phisical Fire=temp+fuel+O2
Spiritual Fire=love+faith+hope
Water can exist at 32 Deg so can ice. The decideing factor is the latent heat added or subtracted.(144btus)
Paul and James were laboring under two different gospels. The Gospel of Uncircumcision and the Gospel of Circumcision.
During the proceedings at the Jerusalem Council,James,Peter,and John"saw that the gospel of the uc was committed" to the Apostle Paul(Gal.2:7)In fact, they gave Paul the right hand of fellowship that he should go unto the Gentiles.
While the Church has traditionally held that there is only one gospel taught in the Word of God, the Scriptures clearly teach there are many different gospels throughout the dispensations, all of which find the origin in the finished work of Christ.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Adv.Christian
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No. 1 I apologize for using the phrase have fun tearing up,
It simply means to ponder over, it is a maxim.
As to nobody having given you an outline…well every time someone posts something you jump to it is combining the two kingdoms together. Think about that in correlation with the question I asked above. As always my love to all and May God Bless.
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A person talking can not be listening; A person not listening can not be learning.
Posts: 299 | From: Raleigh/North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2004
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Adv.Christian
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Terral your reply is exactly what I expected; you simply disavowed my post as unwanted
quote:
Terral
Who asked for commentary on the whole chapter of Galatians 3?
And this when I was answering your question quote:
Terral
Where is their 'one gospel' outline?
Rather you asked for it or not Paul gave us the outline so rather you decide it is right or wrong this is your call. I have read your posts enough to know you are set in your faith and it is good to be that way, as long as being set in it dose not prevent you from hearing the truth of God’s Word.
Here I will give you one to have fun tearing up, you have a glass full of water, a tray full of ice and a boiler full of steam; in its base form what do you have in each container? Think before you answer.
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A person talking can not be listening; A person not listening can not be learning.
Posts: 299 | From: Raleigh/North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2004
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Adv.Christian
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![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) Hello again Terral; while I am certain you mean well you must forgive me but it is not your help I need in setting my “outline” quote:
Terral states:
Please . . . Can we all agree that Satan has transformed himself into an ‘angel of light’ (2Cor. 11:14) AND that his servants are ‘servants of righteousness?’ 2Cor. 11:15? Satan uses the same Bible as everyone here, but he mixes things together that do not belong. Let me help you generate a simple outline that teaches your one gospel theory:
I prefer to use the Total Word of God
However in you “help” you listed some implied questions;
Terral quote:
I. Name of your gospel. Matt. ??:??.
1. Verses containing your gospel. Matt. ??:??, Mark ??:??, Etc. ??:??
2. Was your gospel seen by the OT prophets? Matt. ??:??
3. How do your believers obtain eternal life? Give Scripture.
4. Believers sins forgiven by? Give Scripture.
5. Baptisms? Give Scripture.
6. Believers receive the Holy Spirit by? Give Scripture.
7. Believers are justified by? Give Scripture.
8. Believers are under Law or not? Give Scripture.
At the risk of you telling me I do not make sense to you, and if I do not I am sorry and please my brothers and sisters if this dose not please forgive me, I will give you but one section of scripture for you to fault which answer these questions.
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Now I will admit, maybe I am too simplistic in my views but lets see;
Verse 16-18 Seems to me feeble understanding that we have a mystery salvation promise because even if Abraham did not understand it this is the promise God was giving, not giving the option to obey the law.
Verse 19-21 The law had to be established in order that sin would be defined. Without the law there would be no sin. But this als gave proof to the fact that no man can be saved by the keeping of the law (20)
Verses 22-23 The state of the old testament Saints was that of being covered by their actions which showed their faith in Christ (which they were unaware of the entirety of their promise due to to the fact it still having not been revealed to them at this time.) for the salvation of Christ is the promise.(22)
Verse 24-25 The Old Testaments Books were given in order to bring man to an understanding of Christ and prepare for His entrance to fulfill the promise of God. Once Christ paid the price of covering mans sin then Christians were released from the condemning effects of failure to follow the laws and thus salvation for all is of faith and not works.
Verses 26-28 All whom have accepted Christ are covered by Christ’s actions and fulfillment of God’s promise to Abraham. This includes Jews and Gentiles alike (28).
So I say again; yesI believe in “one gospel” and there is a simplicity in God’s Word which causes many to believe that nothing so Great can be that simple, but then again God’s wisdom will confound the wise.. The truth of the matter is God made it simple for a reason, so that all might be saved and hat is my answer to BornAgain’s question, Who are the many? All of mankind. Who are the few? Those whom accept the Lord Jesus as their personal savior.
As always my love to all and May God Bless. ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
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A person talking can not be listening; A person not listening can not be learning.
Posts: 299 | From: Raleigh/North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2004
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Adv.Christian
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Look a little farther up in 1 Cor. at 1 Cor. 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
Good diflection but Paul in this very book states his having baptized, and apparently it was in the name of Christ given his fear of people claiming he would do it in his own name.
Any way I have enjoyed and as always my love to all and May God Bless.
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A person talking can not be listening; A person not listening can not be learning.
Posts: 299 | From: Raleigh/North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2004
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Adv.Christian
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You are too kind Terral; at least now I know I have a clean brain for it has water on it. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Terral again I ask you where the teaching against baptism is by Paul, infact Paul himself practiced baptism. 1 Corinthians 1:14 - I thank God thatI baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; The truth of the matter is he had no such teaching.
No where has any one stated you were baptized into water. The water in a baptism is symbolic of the tomb which Christ was placed and the actural baptism is a symbolic gesture showing the rebirth of a Christian. A Christian is baptized into the body of Christ in the name of the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.
Romans 6:4 - Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Colossians 2:12 - Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Colossians 2:12 - Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
As to the example of the baptism being in water lets look at Acts
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
These are but a few that I find show the baptism to be of Devine order, I know you will not agree but I wanted to list thede few so others whom may be searching can see.
I am sorry if you find my belief to be offensive to the point you must belittle me yet again, and who knows maybe you are right with as you say I have water on the brain but that dose not change God’s Word.
I would humbly offer this sdvice however, If you are going to stand for your Christian faith and attempt to witness to others don’t you think you should also endeavor to give a good witness in you attitude towards others? I do respect your firm belief in what you believe but the truth of the matter is there have been a number of times, just as I did above, people have attempted to show you different scriptures which taken in context do not coincide with your views and instead of acknowledging this you have gone onto the offensive in order to redirect the line of thought at that time. You are well versed and good at controlling the line of discussion but alas I pray the scriptures will avail. My love to all, and May God Bless.
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A person talking can not be listening; A person not listening can not be learning.
Posts: 299 | From: Raleigh/North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2004
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Terral:
Hi Adv. Christian:
Thank you for not quoting me or finding errors in my testimony above I this thread. Your post here contains no quotes or Scriptural references, so we are looking at another “Dear Terral” love letter.
Adv. Christian >. You tap dance well my brother. The fact is to attempt to separate, (I will use baptism as an example) scripture is a futile attempt at satisfying mans desire for there to be more complication to the scripture then God plans. You wanted my ‘one gospel’ outline, . It is called The Holy Bible.
Please . . . Can we all agree that Satan has transformed himself into an ‘angel of light’ (2Cor. 11:14) AND that his servants are ‘servants of righteousness?’ 2Cor. 11:15? Satan uses the same Bible as everyone here, but he mixes things together that do not belong. Let me help you generate a simple outline that teaches your one gospel theory:
I. Name of your gospel. Matt. ??:??.
1. Verses containing your gospel. Matt. ??:??, Mark ??:??, Etc. ??:??
2. Was your gospel seen by the OT prophets? Matt. ??:??
3. How do your believers obtain eternal life? Give Scripture.
4. Believers sins forgiven by? Give Scripture.
5. Baptisms? Give Scripture.
6. Believers receive the Holy Spirit by? Give Scripture.
7. Believers are justified by? Give Scripture.
8. Believers are under Law or not? Give Scripture.
We can extend this list to cover more ground, but this is sufficient for our Debate. GL.
Adv. Christian >> I believe God dose not contradict Himself and to attempt to separate the Christian faith would be a contradiction.
I believe that “I believe” testimony is meaningless in any Debate. Christopher Columbus proved an entire world wrong by sailing towards the end of their earth. You must prove any contradictions in my testimony by quoting me and proving your case using Scripture in the same way old Chris proved his theory.
Adv. Christian >> If for example Paul baptized with spirit only why was he thankful he only baptized two?
I swear to God that you guys do not read my posts and then head out to set the world on fire with ‘I believe’ posts. Paul is ‘preaching the kingdom’ (Acts 20:25) to these disciples in Acts 19:1-6 who had already received the Baptism of John (Mark 1:4). Paul preaches BOTH of these gospels during Acts, but ONLY gospel #2 is the subject of his Epistles. Go all the way back to Paul’s conversion and you will see that God is sending him to “the Gentiles (gospel of the grace of God; Acts 20:24) AND kings AND the sons of Israel (preaching the kingdom; Acts 20:25), as the ‘whole purpose’ of God (Acts 20:27). Most of the members here only know half the story . . .
Adv. Christian >> As I stated earlier baptism is performed as a show of rebirth through the death resurrection and life of Christ.
You can state that again a million times if you like and each time will be dead wrong. You have mixed the doctrinal components of the two gospels together to create one of your very own that God sent to NOBODY. That is how Satan tricks people by covering their eyes from ‘the truth’ (2Cor. 4:3+4) of this topic. Your are a victim of Satan’s great success as the ‘deluding influence’ (2Thes. 2:11). This side of the debate knows that to be 100 percent truth, even if you never see it . . . My warnings are directed at those yet to fall under the same spell . . .
Adv. Christian >> Again as I said dose it (baptism) save anyone no.
What is John the Baptist doing with water baptism in Mark 1:4?
“John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. And all the country of Judea was going out to him, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.” Mark 1:4+5.
This is the ONLY water baptism of the New Testament. You have transformed the doctrinal component of line #4 of Gospel #1 into your own personal believer’s baptism that Paul never teaches to anyone. There is sound doctrine and there is unsound doctrine and damnable teachings that send many straight to hell in a hand basket. What part of these verses do you fail to comprehend?
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the GIFT of God; NOT as a result OF WORKS, so that no one may boast.” Eph. 2:8+9.
The ‘one baptism’ (Eph. 4:5) of 1Cor. 12:13 is done by the ONE SPIRIT, which is the Holy Spirit of Eph. 1:13+14. There is NO SECOND BAPTISM for Paul’s Gospel. You people are playing around with FIRE and BRIMSTONE by adding works to Paul’s Gospel. If nobody is saved by your pitiful rituals, then STOP DOING THEM and acknowledge that the one baptism is SPIRITUAL. Paul’s ‘one baptism’ is how we become the members of Christ’s body in the first place and you cloud the whole spiritual process with works done by human hands. Are you laying hands for the Holy Spirit also (Acts 19:6) or do you follow Paul’s teaching that we receive the Spirit by ‘hearing with faith’ (Gal. 3:2)???? You are being inconsistent to grab John’s water baptism from Acts 19:3 without the other two in verses 5 (name of the Son) and 6 (Holy Spirit). There are three baptisms for the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ but only ONE for Paul’s Gospel. Thus far you do not appear to know the difference.
Adv. Christian >> Should it still be observed absolutely.
For what purpose? Go ahead and show us anything from the Pauline Epistles that teaches the ‘one baptism’ by the ‘one Spirit’ (1Cor. 12:13) and a follow up baptism in water for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER. You cannot do that, which is why you ran to Paul ‘preaching the kingdom’ (Acts 20:25) in Acts 19:1-6 to steal your second baptism from there. Anyone with eyes can see the grand larceny you are trying to perpetrate, even if this seems like a minor incursion to you. Souls of men weigh in the balance and you have no business leading others astray with such nonsense. To send me a post with no quotes and no Scripture on this vital topic is throwing caution to the wind . . .
Adv. Christian >> You are so fond of saying find scriptures do me a favor, find where Paul countermands the teaching of baptism.
He teaches our ‘one baptism’ in Eph. 4:5 among seven ‘ones’ that are not seen with the human eye. He shows you the one baptism in 1Cor. 12:13, which is done by the ‘one Spirit.’ He teaches that we are baptized “INTO CHRIST” (Gal. 3:27) and NOT into any water. You have water on the brain and have mixed John’s Baptism in with Paul’s gospel without understanding the difference or the repercussions of adding works to our gospel for today. The ‘one baptism’ by the Holy Spirit IS VITAL and part of our salvation process, but to add water after the fact is not according to grace doctrine taught in the Pauline Epistles.
Thank you for writing,
In Christ Jesus through Paul’s ‘one baptism,’
Terral
You formulate well on a board. Love to see you in the hole filled with supperheated steam.
A Patriot in Christ.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Adv.Christian
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Terral
You tap dance well my brother. The fact is to attempt to separate, (I will use baptism as an example) scripture is a futile attempt at satisfying mans desire for there to be more complication to the scripture then God plans. You wanted my ‘one gospel’ outline, .
It is called The Holy Bible. I believe God dose not contradict Himself and to attempt to separate the Christian faith would be a contradiction. If for example Paul baptized with spirit only why was he thankful he only baptized two? As I stated earlier baptism is performed as a show of rebirth through the death resurrection and life of Christ. Again as I said dose it (baptism) save anyone no. Should it still be observed absolutely. You are so fond of saying find scriptures do me a favor, find where Paul countermands the teaching of baptism. As always my love to all and May God Bless.
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A person talking can not be listening; A person not listening can not be learning.
Posts: 299 | From: Raleigh/North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2004
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epouraniois
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Quoting Terral,
quote:
They are all saved through obedience to the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 24:14) AND they must ‘endure to the end’ (Matt. 24:13) for salvation.
Now it's salvation by works? So, I guess if two men get together, one of them being not God, but just a man called Jesus, then they can save themselves, wow.
Isa 61:7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.
Isa 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.
Isa 61:9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
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Adv.Christian
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Terarl>>>>The techniques of Debating Scripture are more of an art than a science and there are may ways to level the playing field to be used by the lesser members of the body. The most disarming avenue to take that reveals potential weakness in your opponent’s position is to ask him the right question. One carefully drafted question can perform a variety of tasks:
I must admit Terral you do play the game well, when and if you come to a difficult spot you redirect the line of thought away from that spot. Rather you have studied psychology or not you are rather adapt at using some of it’s techniques. But any way concerning a few of your earlier lines:
Terral>>>>The Jesus = Deity doctrine is A MYTH. Sorry; but true. John the Baptist could not be clearer in John 1:34. Your reasons for wanting to change his testimony are the source of the problem. The “one God” of 1Tim. 2:5 is “His God and Father” (Rev. 1:6) and the God we AND JESUS CHRIST serve now and FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER. If the words of 2Tim. 4:4 above apply to you, then please accept my apologies for being the one ‘solemnly charged’ to tell you these things.
Alas when scripture disagrees with a belief the belief is incorrect is it not?
John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.
John 14:9 - Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
.Terral>>>> The ‘one gospel’ interpretation of Scripture is A MYTH. Christ came straight out of the box preaching the ‘gospel of God’ (Mark 1:14+15) and that has NOTHING to do with God raising Him from the dead (1Cor. 15:3+4) AFTER Calvary and AFTER Paul’s conversion (Acts 9:15) and AFTER Paul received our gospel through a ‘revelation of Jesus Christ.’ Gal. 1:11+12. My two gospel outlines have withstood the test of time and nobody here is going to dislodge one thing; guaranteed.
The problem is while Christ lived in fleshly body He placed the Gentiles with the Jews.
Matthew 8:11 - And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven
Terral>>>>Water baptism for us today is A MYTH. That is a doctrinal component of Gospel #1 in my Gospel’s post (Gospel of the Kingdom) that Christ Himself preached in the Four Gospels and the Twelve carried into Acts by the Holy Spirit. Paul’s ‘one baptism’ (Eph. 4:5) is done by the Holy Spirit Himself (one Spirit = 1Cor. 12:13) sealing us “IN HIM” (Eph. 1:13+14) for the ‘day of redemption.’ Eph. 4:30. Satan has tricked men into blending the two gospel messages into one that DOES NOT SAVE. Then the ‘deluding influence’ (2Thes. 2:11) keeps them believing ‘what is false.’ The ‘sinner’s prayer’ is just another gospel that saves NOBODY. Just as soon as you say, “Do this . . . for salvation,” then that includes WORKS.
Once again believers should continue the observance of baptisim, will this save or cause a believer to not be saved, no but it is still done in symbolic fashion to show the rebith through the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It should be performed in Jesus name.
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Romans 6:3 - Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. -31)
There are just three of the post above with scripture that dose not coincide with the statements and as I said before while I admit I do not know all the mysteries of God’s Word I do know it is infallible and true. Therefore if there is a difference between scripture and a belief personally I believe the belief to be in err. As always my love to all and May God Bless.
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A person talking can not be listening; A person not listening can not be learning.
Posts: 299 | From: Raleigh/North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2004
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BORN AGAIN
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brother Terral writes quote:
Debating the truth of God’s Word is as much about ‘how’ you are presenting your case as ‘what’ is being presented. We must defend the truth of Scripture AND our own credibility...
no doubt you are preaching to the choir on that one, but do take your own words to heart, Terral.
In another thread you called your "how" "boldness". But I think a lot of your "how" is not "boldness", but just plain "rudeness", Terral. You probably couldn't answer your boss or customers that way, and so you definitely shouldn't do it with your bornagain Christian brothers and sisters.
(Are we not bornagain yet, Terral, or are we?)
I doubt that God thinks that any doctrine is SO-O important that it justifies being "rough" and "rude" in many of your responses. I think the LORD wants us above all else to present our knowledge with love and compassion, else I think He'd rather we don't present it at all. ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
brother Terral writes quote:
I must head back out to work tomorrow and my time here will be only in the evenings...
"Phew...!" (he works) ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[pound]](graemlins/pound.gif) Now if we could just find a job for epouraniois. Sorry guys, I don't mean any offence, but I find your intellect too overwhelming for my pea brain. I just wish you could keep it simple.
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BORN AGAIN
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brother Terral writes quote:
I must head back out to work tomorrow and my time here will be only in the evenings...
"Phew...!" (he works)
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BORN AGAIN
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dear brother Terral, I agree that God is probably hyper-complicated and it may well be that in the end, you are and were completely correct in all you are trying to say here.
However, I work 50 hours a week and simply do not have time to dissect all the parts of your presentation (or that of epouraniois) which you have probably developed over a period of years and for me to paste the parts where I got stuck in the presentation (which usually is soon and in multiple places eventhough I "had" considered myself fairly bright until I ran into you two fellows).
So after all I have read so far, nothing has changed in my doctrine thus far, and I make no distinction between "gospel of the kingdom" and "bride of Christ with a heavenly calling", and "Israel ruling on earth", etcetera, etcetera.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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BORN AGAIN
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dear brother Terral, you do sound like epouraniois, as brother Bandit said.
Some of what you said, at least as you presented it, was way to complicated to follow for me.
As I said to epouraniois, if you think you have something to teach, that is fine with me, but you must start the subject at the beginning at "A" and end with "Z" in order for that kind of subect to be comprehensible by uninitiated persons.
If you make it so complicated that it cannot be understood by the average Christian you are really not accomplishing much, I think.
I certainly do not believe in an elitist intellectual Christianity which can only be attained by a precious few.
If anything, the more "Christian" I become, I would think it would tend toward greater simplicity of word and statement.
BTW, I did appreciate that Judas was called but not chosen, and that Ananias and Sephira were called but not chosen.
So in simple terms, Terral, who are the many who are called in history and who are or will be the few who are chosen?
Please tell me in short terms. Thank you.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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BORN AGAIN
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brother J4Jesus, you wrote quote:
Ok, well let me first admit that i have been abusing God's grace and that's not Fair to Him.
First of all let me say that this is a beautiful statement to make, brother J4Jesus.
But this is the answer to your statement. We are all abusing God's grace and that is not fair to Him. Well, actually, it is fair to Him? Why?
Because He knew that if He accepted Sons and Daughters trained by Lucifer-Satan, that He would have, uh, a few problems at first, uh, during this lifetime.
But thanks be to God for Jesus Who gave His life for us, so that God can forgive our sins without being lax in justice.
He tries to reach us and teach us His ways while we yet live, but we all abuse His grace during our lifetime. Join the christian club.
May the LORD God of Israel bless you and yours this coming year, J4Jesus.
LORD, bless him. I am BORN AGAIN by the of Yahshua-Jesus, raised in Nazareth, but born in Bethlehem of Judah, as Micah 5:2 said.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by J4Jesus:
Ok, well let me first admit that i Have been abusing God's grace and that's not Fair to Him.
But further on, Jesus told that one lady caught in Adultery "Stop Sinning". That's in The Bible and the Bible is for US in these times correct? Well, Jesus said that to HER, i don't know if He said it to US, but even if He meant it for US, can we STOP SINNING until we KNOW that He's told us Individually to STOP?
And in one of Paul's Writings paul says "Stop Sinning".
But Jesus ALSO says that we can't do it on our Own. It's so Confusing. So what's going on there?
If the Bible says "Stop sinning" that is what the Holy Spirit is telling you. J4J. He speaks to us through the Bible. You say you know that you are sinning, so God must have told you to stop sinning.
I heard someone say that your thoughts are like having a FedEx package come to your door. You can either sign for the it and accept it, or refuse to sign for it. The Holy Spirit is gentleman; he doesn't force himself on you - it is your choice. It is only in rare cases that someone is hit with a 'bolt of lightening,' so to speak.
I am sure you have been told many times before on this Board that you have to 'cast down your imaginings' J4J. Again, it's your choice. Dig into the Word as armour against the devil's attacks.
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quote:
Originally posted by J4Jesus:
But further on, Jesus told that one lady caught in Adultery "Stop Sinning". That's in The Bible and the Bible is for US in these times correct? Well, Jesus said that to HER, i don't know if He said it to US, but even if He meant it for US, can we STOP SINNING until we KNOW that He's told us Individually to STOP?
And in one of Paul's Writings paul says "Stop Sinning".
But Jesus ALSO says that we can't do it on our Own.
So what's going on there?
Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
Of the twenty-three words translated sin, wickedness, evil, disobedience, transgression, and so on, the word used here is the verb hamartano = to miss the mark or aim; then, to miss or wander from the right path; to go, or do, wrong.
G264
ἁμαρτάνω
hamartanō
ham-ar-tan'-o
Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the base of G3313; properly to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), that is, (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin: - for your faults, offend, sin, trespass.
G264
ἁμαρτάνω
hamartanō
Thayer Definition:
1) to be without a share in
2) to miss the mark
3) to err, be mistaken
4) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
5) to wander from the law of God, violate God’s law, sin
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the base of G3313
Citing in TDNT: 1:267, 44
So the message of the Lord here is to serving sin, for one cannot serve two masters.
Of course we will not be able to have a sinless day in our flesh lives, but that does not mean we have to serve sin rather than Godliness. Our Father knows who the enemy is, and it is Satan. He knows what we are up against and is rich in endless mercy and love. He does not hold against us that which is common to every man, 1Co 10:13.
His desire is that we come to a knowledge of Him. When we truly know someone, we naturally desire that we do nothing to contribute to their harm.
There is a fork in the road which we all come, and it is an individual place we all share. This place is one of choice, one of trust. It seems to me that we must be brought low before we can be raised to life, and that life, again, rests in trust. Either trust in self, or trust in the Lord.
There is one thing that the Christian needs more than he needs any other thing. One thing on which all others rest; and on which all others turn.
The spirit of wisdom AND revelation IN
THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIM.
There are, indeed, six Greek words which are translated to 'know', but these two are the most common.
1. The one, oida, means to know without learning or effort; and refers to what we know intuitively, or as a matter of fact or history.
2. The other, ginosko, means to get to know; by effort, or experience, or learning.
John 8:55. "Ye have not know him (i.e., gotten to know him. No. 2 of these two words); but I know him (No. 1)...him not, I shall be a liar like unto you; but I know him (No. 1)." Here the Lord declares His imminent knowledge of the Father; and declares that hose whom He was addressing, not only had no such innate knowledge of God, but had not even attained to a knowledge they had no knowledge.
In Eph. 1:17, we have His prayer set forth in these words: "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in
THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIM."
This, then, must be our greatest need: A true knowledge of God.
Dr. Bullinger spoke in this wise:
If the Holy Spirit thus puts it before all other things, it must be because it is more important than any other thing; yea, than all others put together.
This, it is, that lies at the foundation of the Christian Faith; at the threshold of Christian life. It is the essence of all trust.
We cannot trust a person if we do not know him. At least, it is safer for us not to do so; and as a rule we do not. But on the other hand, when we know a person thoroughly well, we cannot help trusting him. No effort to trust is required when we perfectly know a person. The difficulty then is, to realize we do not yet have that trust.
Why, then, do we not thus trust God? Is not the answer clear? It is because we do not know Him!
Thus we see how this knowledge of God is our greatest need; the very first step of our Christian course. Our trust will ever be in proportion to our knowledge.
The only place we are given to gain a knowledge of Him is in His Word. This is the place where He has chosen to reveal Himself. He has not revealed Himself in books about the Bible, commentaries, public appeal, or anything outside of His given Word.
If we knew, for example a billionth part of God's infinite wisdom, we should see our own to be such utter folly, that we should not merely be "willing" for His will, but we should desire it. It would be our greatest happiness for Him to do and arrange all for us. We should say, 'Lord, I am so foolish and ignorant; and I know nothing, and can do nothing; I can see only this present moment; I know nothing of tomorrow. But Thou canst see the end from the beginning. Thy wisdom is infinite, and thy love is infinite; for, our Saviour and Lord could say of us to Thee, as Thy beloved Son--"Thou hast loved them, as thou hast loved me" (John 17:23). Do, then, Thine own will. This is my desire, the desire of my heart. This is what I long for above all things.'
This is far beyond being "willing". We may be willing for a thing, because we cannot help it. It may be even a low for m of Christian fatalism. A Mohammedan may be thus resigned to the will of his god.
But what we are speaking of is far, far beyond the modern gospel of holiness; far in advance of merely being "willing".
Those who are in the still lower condition; not "willing," but "willing to made willing," do not see that his condition arises from not knowing God; not knowing how infinite is His love, how vast is His wisdom, how blessed and how sweet is His will. If they did but know something of this, they would yearn for His will. It would be the one great earnest desire and longing of their hearts for Him to do exactly what is pleasing in His own sight, in us, and for us, and through us.
Not knowing this secret, Christians everywhere, are striving and laboring to be "willing" by looking at themselves; and by some definite "act of faith" to do something of themselves. Instead of thinking of His wisdom and His love, they are thinking of themselves and of their "surrender".
But this is labor in vain. Even if it should seem to accomplish something, it is only like tying paper flowers on a plant. They may look natural and fair; but they have no scent, and no life; no fruit, and no seed. It is an artificial, fictitious attempt to produce that which, if they did but know God, would come of itself, without an effort: yea, the effort would be to stop or hinder the mighty power of a true knowledge of God.
The trouble with us is, if we prove our hearts to their depth, that, at the bottom, WE think WE know better. We would not say it for the world, we would hardly admit it to ourselves. But there it is; and the difficulty of being "made willing" is the proof of it.
If we really knew Him, and believed that He knows better than we do what is good for us, there would be no effort whatever, but only a blessed irrepressible desire for His will.
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J4Jesus
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Ok, well let me first admit that i Have been abusing God's grace and that's not Fair to Him.
But further on, Jesus told that one lady caught in Adultery "Stop Sinning". That's in The Bible and the Bible is for US in these times correct? Well, Jesus said that to HER, i don't know if He said it to US, but even if He meant it for US, can we STOP SINNING until we KNOW that He's told us Individually to STOP?
And in one of Paul's Writings paul says "Stop Sinning".
But Jesus ALSO says that we can't do it on our Own.
It's so Confusing.
So what's going on there?
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BORN AGAIN
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you don't get it yet, brother J4Jesus. Some sins will fall away when you become a bornagain Christian, but some perhaps won't fall away in this life.
And I think that if you try to get rid of the sin or sins which will not fall in this life, you will be a very unhappy person. Christianity will be a burden-to-obey rather than a place to finally relax in.
When you trust in your own righteousness, then you still struggle to "be good."
When you know that "no good dwells in you" then you stop trying to repair yourself and you will only and utterly trust in the exchanged life which Jesus has earned for you.
If there is a sin which besets you, nay, which you even like, and you try to stop it, you will be a miserable Christian. I know, I tried to clean myself up once.
When I realized that a dead man cannot help God with anything, I gave up trying. If God takes it away, fine; if He leaves it there, fine.
I'm not depending on my own righteousness anymore because Ezekiel 33 declared that if I trust in my own righteousness, I will be judged according to my sins.
The only way out is to believe in the exchanged life and righteousness of Jesus Christ which God offers to "whosoever will."
You will be a miserable Christian and you will think that Christianity is an impossible burden to attain.
Do not try to clean yourself up. Believe only in the exchanged life.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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J4Jesus
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Forgive me.
I think ya'll took it the wrong way in what i asked.
I really wasn't asking how you became a Christian, I'm aware of that part, i meant, those Verses make it seem like an Enormous task of Living like such a Humble person who never sins, never gives in, never holds on to their own possessions, etc...
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BORN AGAIN
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2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them; and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Ephesians 2:1
And you has he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.
Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit helps our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that you may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
Who is righteous?
Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.
Only he who accepts the "exchanged life" which is by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross will we receive many lovely things in Christ, things that over time become much more pleasing to our being and bring greater contentment than that what we had while "hanging out" in Lucifer-Satan's world.
"it's not that it is forbidden, but that we choose that which is better"
hopefully with love, BORN AGAIN by the
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though we be dead in our trespasses, the life of Christ which is now in us can be nurtured to grow up as a divine plant in us.
And the food to grow this divine plant is reading the Word and listening to the Holy Spirit which Christ has earned for us and believing that Jesus intercedes for us and believing that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us and lastly, that we can pray ourselves to the LORD God of Israel.
By these five activities we will not "manufacture a glorified body", but we can make the divine plant in us grow into a larger divine plant or shrub in whose branches others can lodge and be protected and feel safe and content.
By these five things we can grow the divine plant in us as an "divine Participant in our life", and the Word can get so exciting to us that we begin to ignore Satan's imitations in the world over time; as we read and feed on the Word, the dead man's activities reduce or change and some disappear altogether and only divine plant activities are now "looking good".
If I continue to "feed my dead man" ("dead in my trespasses"), the time and money and effort invested in the dead man's activities will be done at the expense of growing my divine plant.
One key is to realize that growing my divine plant has much greater benefits for me than growing my dead man's "plant up again" with more worldly activities.
As Carmela pointed out, such "change occurs over time" and which plant we feed usually changes "gradually", but those five activities will change a person, as sister Carmela said, "by the second year...". ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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Carmela
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In my more simple terms J4, the way to get to heaven is to surrender your entire life to Jesus. I didn't use to know exactly what that meant because I was so caught up in my own ways of doing things. In my selfishness in other words. I kept messing up, yet I still wanted to do things my own way.
One of the biggest benefits to being at bible school is that it caused me to have to read the word daily and to study it daily. It doesn't mean I know it all now because I don't. However, I have found that the more time I spend reading the bible, studying it, and praying daily has been the changes that it has brought forth in my life. During my first year in school I started to learn the basics in a way because I was still sometimes wanting to do my own thing. I had to discipline myself to read daily and get my homework done instead of letting myself be busy doing my own things.
In my second year, I started to really surrender my life and the more I studied the bible, the more I realized how awesome the gift really is that Jesus gave to us when He laid down His life so that we can live. I reflected back on the messes I had made in my life because I did things my way instead of God's way.
I thought I was a Christian a long time ago, but I realized that I really wasn't. I wasn't reading the bible and studying it daily, I wasn't praying with love the love of God in my heart, I was praying mostly out of the selfishness in my heart.
In order to really be a Christian and be one that is chosen, we have to give EVERYTHING in our life over to Jesus. We have to lay our life down for Him, as He has done for us. We have to seek Him daily and repent daily or several times a day. In time, our heart changes and we get to a point where the sin in our own lives looks so disgusting to us that we just don't want to do those things anymore. It certainly doesn't mean I'm perfect, it only means that now I seek the heart of God. I seek to know His will in my life, and to do the things that He would want me to do. The bible lays it all out for us.
I use to read the bible a lot, but I didn't really study it. Often when I read I end up thinking of other things so I would read the bible but I wasn't really comprehending what I read because I was too busy thinking of other things. I was distracted. Now, I have to either lay the bible down when I'm distracted and come back to it in a few minutes or keep redirecting myself.
When I started to see these things occur in my life, I knew that I was finally on the right track. I knew, and still know, that I'm not on that wide path any longer because I can see and feel the difference that has taken place inside of me.
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www.pinecrest.org
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I take this time to restate that which I again draw attention towards, namely that each of the kingdom parables tell the same story. Being parables, the meanings are hidden to those who heard them, but are given to us for understanding. Since they are parables though, we must be very careful to not subtract from those words as they are given, as well as to not add our own ideas and our own words onto them. This is hard to do, as most any sermon on them gives proof.
That the word parable means to speak along side, naturally gives us cause for much searching to find the other places the words are used within the given context, but the words themselves provide this for us when we search to see with all readiness of mind. Daily. To see if a thing is so.
Jam 1:17 ...with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
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quote:
Originally posted by J4Jesus:
uh oh, so then how do we get to Heaven even after we are called?
You raise the most important point perhaps, because of what Christians are told is that they must have Israel's things, become Israel, or some such thing as to not be left out, but God has not forgotten us who are not Hebrews, in fact it is the church which was chosen in Christ from before the foundation of the world, Eph1. 4. Every other chosing was made since the foundation of the world, Mat 25:34, Luk 1:70, Act 3:21, Rom 16:25 .
The import of the Salvation of God being sent (apostellō) to the nations, and that we will hear it, cannot be overstated.
As the Lord practiced rightly dividing the word of truth, we are expounded to do the same.
As they knew the hope of thier calling, we find in the letters written with our name (gentiles) on them require that we must pray for the knowledge of the hope of His calling. The reason for this is due to what the apostle would reveal as being a secret (mystery) hid in God from ages and from generations, but now revealed.
This was revealed after Israels' blindness. After Acts 28, after the dreadful words of Isaiah 6:9, 10.
What would follow Acts 28:28 (Israel's kingdom in abayance) is the first time in all of Scripture where a heavenly hope is revealed, where a hope seperate to that of Israel's hope and calling is given to a seperate peoples. That would be us. Us now. It cannot be found in the OT. It cannot be found during the Acts. Heaven and the citizenship of the company called the church is only revealed and only expounded upon in the epistles written by the apostle to the gentiles after he is then sent to reveal unto us the Salvation of God.
Before this, salvation was of the Jews. And only a few non Jews were graphed in, and even then, contrary to nature.
I am sure that knowing this dividing line will help straighten out any mixups that come from failing to rightly divide the word of truth, remembering, that as far as God has told us, it is this ministry which completes the word of God
Col 1:25
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill (complete) the word of God;
Col 1:26
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 1:28
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus
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J4Jesus
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uh oh, so then how do we get to Heaven even after we are called?
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HisGrace makes the great point that this verse is a kingdom parable, worthy to be expounded upon, it being foremost a kingdom parable, making any separation from the parable of The Sower impossible.
In these two parables, The Householder and Vineyard, we have something of a parallel, yet a contrast, for instead of a householder we have a certain king, and instead of labourers we have guests, and in outline:
B | 20. 1-16. The Householder and Vineyard. -The call of the labourers:
1. Early. Many
2. Third hour. called,
3. Sixth and ninth hours. but few
4. Eleventh hour. chosen.
B | 22. 1-14. The Marriage. -The call to the guests:-
1. Bid those who were bidden. Many
2. Again tell them. called,
3. Go therefore to highways. but few
4. The wedding garment. chosen.
The concluding words of each parable, however, are the same, "Many called, but few chosen." The retention of these words, however, in Mat20. 16 is extremely doubtful, and we may be on more certain ground if we say that the closing words of the Parable of the Labourers are, "So the last shall be first, and the first last," while the closing words of the Parable of the Marriage Feast are, "For many are called, but few are chosen."
The parable was addressed to the Pharisees (21. 45, & 22. 1). "Jesus answered, and spake unto them again by parables." Please note the use of the word "again," that in the Parables of the Householder, the Wicked Husbandmen, and the Marriage Feast, there is emphasis upon the fact that an action was repeated.
20. 5.
"Again, he went out about the sixth and ninth hour," after having hired two set before.
21. 36.
"Again, he sent other servants, more than the first," after the first messengers were beaten and killed.
22. 4.
"Again, he sent forth other servants," after the refusal to come to the feast.
This element of longsuffering and renewal of invitation is a feature that is essentially a part of the parable. First we may desire to examine the figures used, afterwards attempt to understand its import by the knowledge so gained.
The characters being, a king, his son, servants, and guests. The parable centres around a marriage feast. This parable contains the first reference to a marriage feast in the NT, and apart from this the word occurs once more in Mat25. 10. It is the same word that comes in Rev19. 7, 9, and is connected by the added word "supper" of the latter verse to the parallel parable of Luke14. 16.
The king's son of course is Christ Himself, and the marriage feast is the marriage supper of the Lamb (Rev19.) Now the servants of the king go out three times, twice to the same people, and once, after the destruction of their city, into the highways. Reading of those to whom the servants went the first time are called, "them that were bidden." This is nearly a title. The chief thought is that the servants did not give the original invitation, but that it had been given already. They went out to invite them that had been invited. This message met with refusal. Again the king sent the message of invitation, adding the words:
"Tell them that have been invited, behold, I have prepared my dinner, my bullock and the fatlings having been killed, and all things ready, come unto the marriage."
These added words are by no means accidental. These two invitations, give us in parable form the ministries that occupy the period commencing with John the Baptist and ending with the close of the Acts of the Apostles. "Them that were bidden" are the people of Israel. John the Baptist, the last of the prophets according to the Old Testament order, announces the good news, "The kingdom of the heavens hath drawn nigh," and is spoken of further as "the friend of the Bridegroom." The Lord Himself, the twelve, and the seventy continue this witness. We know how sadly true the words of the parable are, "they would not come." The second invitation commences with the Acts of the Apostles. There, Peter and the twelve, and those associated ("them that heard Him," Heb2. 3, 4), went forth again with the invitation, this time being able to add, "all things are ready." The Lord had ascended, fulfilling all prophecy (Luke24. 44) "all things are ready."
The differences between Matthew & the Acts Matt. 10 shows the servants going forth to proclaim the good news while Mat24. 21,22 makes it clear that those who carried that invitation could not have said "all things are ready," for not only was Peter ignorant of the fact that the Lord must "suffer...and be killed and be raised again the third day," but he even urged the Lord to abandon the idea. Peter's attitude in the Acts is markedly different. Every recorded address that he gives has the suffering, the death and the resurrection of the Lord as its basis:
"But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all His prophets, that Christ should suffer, He hath so fulfilled, Repent ye therefore" (Acts3. 18, 19).
The initial ministry, that of John the Baptist, was to "prepare the way of the Lord" (Mat3. 3), "prepare" being the same word as "ready." It was also "to make ready for the Lord a prepared people" (Luke1. 17). Note is it not to make everyone ready, but to make ready a prepared people. In Rev19. 7 we read:
"Let us rejoice and exult, and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb is come and His wife has made herself ready."
And in 21. 2:-
"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heavens from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
In the second ministry, that of the Acts, the servants who gave the invitation would indeed lay emphasis that all things were ready. "But they neglected it." The word translated "made light of," is the word which occurs in Heb22. 3:
"How shall we escape if we have been negligent of so great salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord (the first invitation), and was confirmed unto us by them that heard Him (the second invitation), God also bearing witness both with signs, and wonders, and with divers miracles, and distributions of holy spirit, according to His will?"
This is the second invitation of the parable. That "the signs, wonders, divers miracles, and distributions of holy spirit" are read as equivalent to "All things are ready," may be seen by reading Acts2. 1-4, 22, 23, 43; 3. 12-16; 4. 9-12 (note the reference to the stone rejected by the builders, and Mat24. 42, which immediately precedes the parable of the Marriage Feast), and v. 30.
What was the result of this added testimony by the servants? "They neglected it." The parable says that "one went to his own field, and one unto his traffic." The Parable of the Sower, in the third sowing indicated the ministry of the Acts. That third sowing "fell among thorns, and the thorns choked them," which by interpretation means:
"That which among thorns being sown, this is he who hears the word and the cares of this age and the delusion of riches, choke the word and it (he) becomes unfruitful" (Mat13. 22)
We have this same cause expressed in the words, "his own field," and "his traffic." Here is the divine statement as to the failure of the second invitation. This is not all, however. While some "did not care for it," but preferred the things of this age, "the rest" violently opposed. "They seized the servants, insulted and killed them." The Lord Jesus had told His disciples that if the world had hated Him, it would hate them, that He sent them forth as sheep amid wolves. Stating the days would come when they should be delivered up to be afflicted, hated and killed. This we find in measure in the Acts. Some were imprisoned (Acts4. 3; 5. 18; 8. 3; 9. 1, 13, 21). Stephen was stoned (Acts7. 59); James was killed with the sword (Acts7. 2). At the first rejection, which culminated in the betrayal and brutal death of the Lord Jesus, the Lord in wondrous mercy withheld the punishment of which they themselves had thought themselves worthy (Mat21. 41) and sent to those who were guilty of such sins the second ministry of pardon and invitation. The neglect of this "so great salvation," accompanied by the ill-treatment of His servants, was not a second time passed over. This time they had "crucified unto themselves afresh the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame," and "that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected and is nigh unto cursing, whose end is to be burned" (Heb8. 8). They had "trodden under foot the Son of God." "For if they escaped not who refused Him that spake on earth (first invitation), much more shall not we, if we turn away from Him that speaketh from heaven" (Heb7. 25) (second invitation). And so we read:
"But when the king heard thereof he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city."
Between verses 7 and 8 of Mat22 comes the dispensation of the mystery, just as rightly dividing brings us differences between "the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God."
"The wedding feast is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy." Because of their rejection of the head stone of the corner, "the kingdom of God will be taken from them, and given to a nation producing the fruits of it." Because of their refusal and neglect they made themselves "unworthy," and failed. The day will come when they shall see those who have come from the east and the west, and from the north and the south, sitting down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens, but themselves cast out. They knew not the day of their visitation. To no generation of Israel or of men had such exceptional favours been given. They proved unworthy, and forfeited their place. The day will come when the dispersed sons of Abraham will be gathered from the four corners of the earth to sit down in the kingdom. Those who so miserably failed during the two ministries of the Gospels and the Acts will be there, but not in a position of blessedness such as shall those who have thus been gathered in. Weeping and gnashing of teeth accompany the vision they have. They were not worthy. It is interesting to note that the word axios, "worthy," and the word hetoimazo, "to make ready," occur prominently in Matthew and in Revelation, the latter being written specifically to the Hebrews. Axios occurs seven times in the Revelation. Hetoimazo occurs seven times in the Gospel of Matthew, and seven times in the Revelation. It seems that there is a connection between the being made ready, and the being worthy.
If we view the parable and its teaching from the standpoint of the Epistles of the Mystery, we shall be conscious of a difficulty to reconcile the very distinct aspects of truth presented. If we keep within the sphere of the kingdom wherein they particularly are given, the teaching will be clear. In Mat10 the twelve who were sent forth were to enquire in each village for a "worthy person," and a "worthy house." Verses 37, 38 tell us what constituted "worthiness." Axios occurs seven times in the Acts. There we read that the Jews "judged themselves to be unworthy of eonian life" to the blessing of the Gentiles (Acts13. 46-52; compare verse 51 with Mat10. 14), and that Paul had echoed the words of John the Baptist (Mat3. 8) in urging "fruit worthy of repentance" (Acts24. 20).
In Rev3. 4 we read of some who shall walk with the Lord in white (robes), "for they are worthy," and in 16. 6 of some who shall have blood to drink because "they are worthy." Of similar import is Luke 7. 4 and 7. 48. It is evident from the usage of the word that it carries with it the idea of meriting or deserving. This is further substantiated by the following reference:
"Those who are accounted worthy to obtain that age..." (Luke20. 35).
"And take heed to yourselves lest at any time your heart be burdened with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and the cares of life, and that day come upon you unawares...watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things... and to stand before the Son of man" (Luke21. 34-36).
Such is that which became of Israel and that which must come to pass for both her overcomers and her peoples, for God was in Christ, not imputing their sin unto to them, but reconciling the world unto Himself.
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HisGrace
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Let's put Matthew 22:14 into the proper context.
Vrs. 1-14 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
"Then he sent some more servants and said, 'Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.'
"But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.
"Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come.Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.' So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.
"But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes. The man was speechless.
"Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
~There were many guests, but they didn't deserve the rights to the Kingdom because they never came to salvation because of hypocracy and choosing to ignore the invitation. Many didn't show enough interest to even show up for the banquet.
They certainly wouldn't have been chosen to enter the Kingdom.
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epouraniois
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
Acts 2:39
For the promise is to you, and to your children, and to all who are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
as many as the LORD our God shall call.
Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.
many are called, but not all are called.
of the many that are called, few are chosen.
John 15:19
If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
who are the many who are called, and who are the few who are chosen?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
It cannot be any promise not yet given, so the promise must pertain to that which they have already received. Who are they?
Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel
So this was that. Was Joel speaking to non Jews?
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know
Act 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
Act 3:18 But those things, which God before had showed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
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BORN AGAIN
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Acts 2:39
For the promise is to you, and to your children, and to all who are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
as many as the LORD our God shall call.
Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.
many are called, but not all are called.
of the many that are called, few are chosen.
John 15:19
If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
who are the many who are called, and who are the few who are chosen?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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