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Topic: what will be the location of the church then?
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epouraniois
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BORN AGAIN
There are three groups having the adoption, which means to place as son, and these three are in the firstborns place as a son, figuratively, for this is merely human language by which we communicate. God is communicating that each of these three having the foremost position of the firstborn son via adoption have a sphere of blessing where the enjoyment of such a position can be realized. It would be contrare to nature and to God if there were more than one firstborn position in the same sphere of blessing, it is therefore logical that each firstborn have a seperate place.
When you are thinking that God will be with men, are you maybe thinking that this therefore means God cannot execute His ability of omnipresence to be everywhere with all His children?
Rev 21:3
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
This verse really comes down to the grammatical structure and the preposition 'with'.
This is 'with' = G. 'meta', = near, not with as in union. Concerning the church, it is the only company that is said to be, in resurrection, with Christ in union = sun, pronounced soon.
The church is manifest with Christ when Christ is manifest, that is where the church is. Israel will still be seeking and teaching the kingdom, but the church will be with Christ in the superheavenlies. The earthly peoples will miss out on the manifestation when Christ manifests, but the church will be there, as they manifest with Christ where He is when He manifests. He is far above all, and that then, will be where the church manifests. Right now, the church is being built silently and hid in God with Christ. It is not manifest on the earth. People building churches are serving Babylon, for Satan is declaredly the God of this world, and those who worship God MUST worship in truth and in spirit, that is to say, spiritual truth. Not with the five senses, but MUST worship in spiritual truth, for God seeketh such to worship Him.
Throughout the Bible seeking the things of this world are compared with spiritual adultery, James says of adultery, "whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God".
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BORN AGAIN
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I was looking thru Ezekiel 48 to see if I could find where the church would be located if the church received its glorified bodies at the start of the so-called 1,000 year reign of Christ.
But I could not find a place for the church in Ezekiel 48.
It mentioned the priests of the family of Zadok who will be rewarded for their original faithfulness by ministering in the holy portion to the Prince.
And it mentioned the Levites as being south of that.
Ezekiel 48
11 It shall be for the priests that are sanctified of the sons of Zadok; which have kept my charge, which went not astray when the children of Israel went astray, as the Levites went astray.
12 And this oblation of the land that is offered shall be unto them a thing most holy by the border of the Levites.
13 And over against the border of the priests the Levites shall have five and twenty thousand in length, and ten thousand in breadth: all the length shall be five and twenty thousand, and the breadth ten thousand.
But I didn't see the church mentioned in Ezekiel 48.
I have been saying that the Gentiles were grafted into the olive tree of Israel, but since most of the church are Gentiles, the Gentiles would not be allocated places among the land allocations of the 12 tribes of Israel, would they?
So where is the place for the church in the land of Israel during the so-called 1,000 year reign of Christ?
Does this mean that epouraniois (et al.) is right when he says that the church will be in heaven instead?
But what would be the point of the church being in heaven if the Prince Jesus will be on earth for 1,000 years? That does not make sense either, right?
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois
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Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshiping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Consider those who are not resurrected unto life, but unto shame...
The word prize is derived from brabeus, the judge at a public game who assigns the prize. Brabeuo, to preside at the games, occurs in Colossians 3: 15 where it is translated "rule" and katabrabeuo also found in Colossians (2:18), means "to defraud or deprive of a prize, to so manage affairs that the umpire shall pronounce against the contestant". In Colossians the thought is not so much that of being cheated of the reward, but of failing to attain unto the required standard. The atmosphere of 1 Corinthians 9:24 and of Philippians 3:14 is that of the arena, and the race course.
Philippians 3: 10-14 reveals a series of steps toward the goal in view.
1. That I may know Him and the power of His resurrection.
2. The fellowship of His sufferings.
3. Being made conformable unto His death.
4. If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
It is evident that the prayer "that I may know Him" speaks of a knowledge that is deeper than either that which is historical or even doctrinal. A person may be said "to know" when a subject has simply come within the sphere of his perception, and where this aspect of knowledge is intended, the Greek word oida is used, a word that is derived from eido to see, or perceive by means of the senses. This knowledge, however, is not deep, it lies near the surf ace of things. To know as represented by the word ginosko implies insight, acquaintance and personal relationship. It is this word ginosko that the Apostle uses in Philippians 3:10. Relation with the object is readily seen in such passages as "Who knew no sin", "I had not known sin". The special use of the word "know" in Matthew 1 :25 and Luke 1 :34 shows how intimate this knowledge is considered to be. In Philippians 3: 10 the Apostle was not seeking fuller information about the Person or the History of Christ; he was not concerned about the number of prophecies that were fulfilled by His advent, he desired a closer, more intimate acquaintance, a personal relationship even though it involved suffering and shame; he desired a fellowship and a conformity.
* "If by any means they might attain to Phenice" (Acts 27:12).
* "If by any means now at length, I might have a prosperous journey" (Rom. 1:10).
* "If by any means I may provoke to emulation" (Rom. 11:14).
* "If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection" (phil. 3:11).
The grafting of the Gentile, as a wild olive, failed to provoke Israel to emulation. The attempt to reach Phenice, ended in shipwreck. The original of Philippians 3:11 reads eipos katanteso eis, the originalof Acts 27:12 reads eipos dunainto katantesantes eis. The differences are purely grammatical, katanteso being singular, and katantesantes being plural, and the added word dunainto being the addition of the word meaning "be able".
The experiences of the Apostle recorded in Acts twentyseven and twenty-eight must have left an indelible impression upon his mind, and as he penned the words, "if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection", he knew, that there was the possibility of failing to arrive, just as surely as the venture to attain unto Phenice met with such disaster. In the verse following, he emphasizes the fact that he had not "already attained" but that he "followed after" , still further adding "brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended". Now it is certain that Paul could have entertained no doubt concerning his standing in grace and his acceptance in the Beloved, his hope like an anchor was sure, and if he used words that express contingency and uncertainty, then it is morally certain that he was not speaking of the hope of the believer. In verse 14, he reveals that his uncertainty was related to a "prize", and this attitude of mind he had already exhibited in relation to the same theme in 1 Corinthians 9:24-10:13. The "resurrection", therefore, that was the object of the Apostle's desires here in Philippians 3:11, for which he suffered and was willing to endure, must be something equivalent to "the first resurrection" of Revelation 20:4-6, or the "better resurrection" of Hebrews 11 :35.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keepunder my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (unapproved).
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward.
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses...for he had respect unto the recompense of the reward.
All believers should be aware that the Salvation o f God is assured. In the examples above, these are all believers, and at no time is salvation being spoken of, but that good thing that God has to give to those who are faithful unto the end, which is the word perfect.
Salvation is not the reward, for there is nothing a man may do to warrant salvation, which is by grace and not of ourselves. But the reward can be lost. Paul was finally able to say he had attained to the reward:
2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2Ti 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
That word 'finished' is the word perfect = concluded, reached the goal, full growth, &c &c.
Each of these seven churches, to which this book is addressed, is given a special promise to the overcomer:
Ephesus The promise
"To eat of the tree of life" (Rev. 2:7).
Smyrna The promise
"Not to be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11).
Pergamos The promise
"To eat of the hidden manna" (Rev. 2:17).
Thyatira The promise
"Power over the nations" (Rev. 2:26).
Sardis The promise
"Clothed in white raiment" (Rev. 3 :5).
Philadelphia The promise
"Made a pillar in the temple" (Rev. 3:12).
Laodicea The promise
"To sit with Christ in His throne" (Rev. 3:21).
In the last reference, Revelation 3:21, Christ Himself is set forth as the Great Overcomer. "Even as I also overcame".
(1) The True Overcomer.
This includes both the Lord and His people.
(a) The Lord.
"The Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book" (Rev. 5:5).
"The Lamb shall overcome them" (Rev. 17: 14).
(b) His People.
"They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb (Rev. 12:11).
"Them that had gotten the victory over the beast" (Rev. 15:2).
"He that overcometh shall inherit all things" (Rev. 21 :7).
(2) The False Overcomer.
"He went forth conquering and to conquer" (Rev. 6:2).
"The Beast . . . shall overcome them" (Rev. 11:7).
"To make war with the saints, and to overcome them" (Rev. 13:7)
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BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois, I read a lot of what you wrote, the only thing, those verses that you see as pertaining to two things, salvation and a crown, I see them as only one thing: the crown is an automatic part of salvation.
When Paul said that "he had not yet attained", I don't think Paul meant that he "would not get a crown if he did not attain", but Paul was simply saying that "not as if I am like Christ, but I keep trying to experience more and more of Christ, leaving the past behind and pressing onward".
But I don't think Paul meant that he wouldn't get a crown if he ended up not attaining before he is glorified.
But when the whole church is glorified, then we will all receive our crown of glory. But while in this life, with the seal of the HS and the counsel of the HS, some Christians attain to considerable things, like Peter and John after Pentecost.
i.e., anyone who is saved will get a crown.
God bless, BORN AGAIN in the USA
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epouraniois
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"Where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Col. 3:1).
The word "where" indicative of place is used of the present position of Christ, this is said to be "heaven itself" (Heb. 9:24) and in "heavenly places" (Eph. 1:20).
While en followed by a plural can mean "among" (Col. 1:27), it can also mean "in", for no one supposes that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob dwelt "among" tabernacles, they had enough common sense to dwell "in" them. The strange expression "upon the heavens" loses its strangeness when we realize that the firmament is stretched out under the original heaven of Genesis 1:1.
Epouranios In Ephesians
A Eph. 1:3 Spiritual blessings
B Eph. 1:20 Far above principalities and powers.
C Eph. 2:6 Raised and seated together
B Eph.3:10 A witness to principalities and powers
A Eph. 6:12 Spiritual wickednesses.
The Apostle has not only given these five references which indicate the exalted and peculiar position of Christ and His church, he has assisted us further by giving an explicit statement in Ephesians 4:10 concerning the Ascension. There Christ is said to have "ascended far above all heavens", the word translated "far above" being huperano. This position is so far above all heavens, that by ascending to this sphere, Christ is said to have filled all things.
Many words used in the English language are derived either from Latin or Greek. Some words are derived from both tongues, and are employed severally as the genius of the language dictates. Thus the Greek huper becomes the Latin super, and while we retain the Greek in such terms as hyperbolic, we often favour the Latin equivalent super, and say super-abundance, not huper-abundance; super-annuate, not huperannuate; super-impose, not huper-impose.
Consequently with Ephesians 4:10 plainly written, we are at liberty to speak of the super-heavens, as a definition of the peculiar sphere of the church of the Mystery, conscious that we are not adding a word to the inspired testimony but are honestly giving in this compact form the combined intention of the two sets of expressions en tois epouraniois and huperano panton ton ouranon.
"The only calling or revelation that has pierced the present contemporary heaven and touched that which can be spoken of as eternal, is that dispensation of the grace of God which has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in the super-heavenlies far above all. This shows the unique character of the church of the One Body. It is connected both by time and place with that which begins before the present heavens were made, and goes on when the present heavens shall be no more. The church of the Mystery is the only link during this age between the time before sin entered and the time when sin shall be no more. All other purposes are 'under the heavens'. This one alone places those who are blessed under its terms 'above the heavens'. If these things are so, it would be very surprising if the doctrine and practice of this peculiar people were not different from all others." (The Berean Expositor, Vol. xx, p. 111.)
Mr. Alexander Thomson, in an article published in The Differentiator, for a clarifying word on Philippians 3:20.
"Let me quote from the Revised Standard Version: 'But our commonwealth is in heaven and from it we await a Saviour.' FROM IT, from what? It is out of our commonwealth or homeland that we are ardently awaiting Him. The Greek makes it very clear when it reads ex hou, and not ex hon, that is to say 'out of which' (singular), not 'out of which' (plural). The word heaven is plural, while politeuma is in the singular.
"Now it is absurd to say that our Lord is to appear out of our 'Manner of life'. He is ardently awaited out of our politeuma. Therefore our politeuma is a country. Yes; it is our real HOMELAND. . . . If the church of God is to spend its future existence on earth, we must see much stronger evidence than . . . has yet produced."
"The word of God is powerful when it comes to casting down imaginations."
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epouraniois
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One thing I cannot understand, that is, why would anyone want to be ruled here by a rod of iron, when there is a wedding feast in the heavenlies going on?
And that is the difference between what the Bible says and what man teaches,
that thousand years ends in failure for one thing, the only good to come out of it is that AGAIN, man learns he cannot stand on creature strength but upon every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord.
Revelation is about Hebrew overcomers, it is not about the church. All we are told is that when Christ finally does manifest then the church will manifest with Him.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
with:
G4862
σύν
sun
soon
A primary preposition denoting union; with or together (but much closer than G3326 or G3844), that is, by association, companionship, process, resemblance, possession, instrumentality, addition, etc.: - beside, with. In compounds it has similar applications, including completeness.
Clearly, the church has the closest relationship to God than any other calling in the Bible, for it is the chruch wherein Christ's fullness dwells.
The word for 'with' concerning Israel is not 'sun' as above, but 'meta':
G3326
μετά
meta
met-ah'
A primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly denoting accompaniment; “amid” (local or causal); modified variously according to the case (genitive case association, or accusative case succession) with which it is joined; occupying an intermediate position between G575 or G1537 and G1519 or G4314; less intimate than G1722, and less close than G4862): - after (-ward),X that he again, against, among, X and, + follow, hence, hereafter, in, of, (up-) on, + our, X and setting, since, (un-) to, + together, when, with (+ -out). Often used in composition, in substantially the same relations of participation or proximity, and transfer or sequence.
The prepositions are key to understanding the various relationships, I suggest getting a good Bible, such as the Companion Bible, and a good Concordance and to use them to allow God to stear you to where He desires to take you in your studies.
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epouraniois
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quote:
even the tribes of Israel when they live in the land of Israel per Ezekiel 48?
BORN AGAIN
All Israel shall be saved, and what will it be like, life from the dead, yes?
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
quote:
did you agree that the glorified church will reign with Christ in the holy portion, and if not, who will reign with Him in the holy portion?
BORN AGAIN
I read that the church which is His body has it's cititzenship in heaven. This would be the heavens far above all heavens where He is, namely, in the bosom of His Father. Our life here is considered dead, we are to seek that understanding given in it's simplicity, that is to say, we are buried and raised with Him even now. That is what we are to come to terms with. Our life, being dead to the things of this world, is hid with Christ where Christ is hid, that would be, hid in God. If our life is hid with Christ in God, then no one can touch us, no one can take away that Salvation which He promised before the foundation of the world.
All other callings were made since, or after, the foundation of the world and have to do with His earthly peoples, but just because God didn't make known His heavenly intentions until after Israel failed to realize her calling does not mean that God doesn't have plans for things beyond what is written, for what is written has to do with redeeming purposes and destroying the enemy, who is Death, the brightest archangel of all, Satan himself.
When those who are resurrected unto shame everlasting, the word is mistranslated, everlasting should be translated always as age time. They will be resurrected unto shame for an age time, and we know that to be a thousand years.
I have struggled with the ideas of IF some are to perish, but I cannot find anywhere that over rides God' plan of redemption, because the HS has definately given us, for our learning, that those who are resurrected unto death shall be HURT of the second death. why? because if anyone builds on any other foundation, or if their works are not gold, then their works will be burned up, but they themselves shall be saved, saved by fire.
This is what I thinK:
When everyone is raised into that glorified body, whether to shame or life eigther one, everyone will see Him as He is. How is He? God is love.
And every knee will bow to that love, that mercy, that all knowing longsuffering who will make every eye see and long for that love which we only desire while here on earth.
We may only desire love for our spouse, our children, but when we are all raised uncorruptable, we will all know what we truly desire.
Satan does not want us to realize this calling, because Satan wants us to see him as God when he comes claiming to be Jesus.
Satan does not want us to realize what the one hope of His calling is, and people, the calling which Christ is called to, is the same calling the church is called to.
This callling given only in the prison epistles is the superstructure being builtin the heavenly places now. it is far above the angels which Israel shall judge.
quote:
if you are saying that the church will be in heaven instead, will Jesus be on earth as the Prince in His holy portion then?
God can be everywhere at once ok, but the truth is written that Jesus Christ is a temporary manifestaion of the invisible God and will not be forever in His future manifest visible form, not even after resurrection, for we read:
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till...
Right now, Christ is the fulness of the Godhead bodily, but the goal is not to reign with men, the riegning with men is a temporary part of a larger goal, and that goal is given us:
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Not that the FAther shall be all in all, but that God be all in all. I am against all creeds because of this right here.
Creeds say things like, the Father created...but they cannot show me in the Bible where it says this, &c, &c.
Lots of things sound real good, esp if given to us by some great orator, speaker, but for myself, I am only concerned with what is written. man's ideas are not correct, even man's righteousness is but filthy rags, and if the apostle says he can only see the truth as in a mirror inigmatically, then we can see even less, and are even more demanded to cast off anything man says if it is not expressly written AND within the God given context of the overall plan of God.
quote:
and would the church join anything on earth later, or never?
"He is the Saviour of the Body" (Eph. 5:23).
"We are members of His Body" (Eph. 5:30).
"No man hateth his own flesh" (Eph. 5:29).
In the new creation, when all the redeemed of all ages are raised, the Church which is the perfect Man, or husband, and the Church which is the BRIDE may re-enact in its full spiritual sense, the union of the first man and woman (Gen. 2:21-24), but that lies beyond the present limits of the ages and dispensations. The Church which is His Body is one company, with a calling that is unique and distinct. The Church of the Bride is another company with a calling unique and distinct, and until God joins these two together let no man attempt to do so.
quote:
is it true that you divide the church up into overcomers and non-overcomers?
It is true that the apostle does, I merely acknowledge that principle:
Phi 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Phi 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Phi 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Phi 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Phi 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an example.
Phi 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Phi 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
Phi 3:20 For our conversation (CITIZENSHIP) is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ:
So Paul here, tells two things, three, the out-resrrection out from amoung the dead is the proper Greek tranlation,
not having attained (prize he presses towards)
having attained (Salvation)
so Salvation and the prize or crown are two things, one is a free gift, the other can be won or lost, one is to the out resurrection out from amoung the dead to life now, the other is resurrection to shame wherein one's works must be burned and the person saved so as by fire. The overcomer is not HURT of the second death.
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BORN AGAIN
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the new world order of Ezekiel 48
Dan in the north
Asher
Naphtali
Manasseh
Ephraim
Reuben
Judah
holy oblation of land by Jerusalem where the Lord God-and-Prince Yashua-Jesus will live--will the church live in this holy portion?
Benjamin
Simeon
Issachar
Zebulun
Gad in the south
BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace
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All believers are the church.
If you believe in the Rapture, the church goes up into heaven at that time,to be with Jesus for evermore. While in heaven they are prepared to become his bride for the Second Coming. At the Second Coming, they will come back down to earth with Jesus, where he reigns for 1000 years, after which the new heaven and the new earth will be formed.
The tribulation, right after the Rapture, will be final fulfillment of the prophecies in the OT for the Jews. Thousands of Jews will be converted during that period, and they will at last regain back all of their promised land according to the covenant made to Abraham.
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BORN AGAIN
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epour writes quote:
Yes, everyone gets a glorified body, flesh and blood cannot enter...
even the tribes of Israel when they live in the land of Israel per Ezekiel 48?
did you agree that the glorified church will reign with Christ in the holy portion, and if not, who will reign with Him in the holy portion?
if you are saying that the church will be in heaven instead, will Jesus be on earth as the Prince in His holy portion then?
and if that is the case, what's the point of the church being in heaven while the Prince is on earth?
and would the church join anything on earth later, or never?
is it true that you divide the church up into overcomers and non-overcomers?
I still don't know the answer to these questions so I hope you don't mind me asking them again.
can you just answer them in short staccato phrases?
thanks, BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois
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As we look out into the great expanse we call the universe, we read that this is all in ruin because of that wicked (one). It all needs rebuilding. The creation itself groans as do we, awaiting for the...
My point is, that the Bible manifestly declares Christ to have created time. But there will be a place where time shall be no more.
We are talking multi dimensional multiverses then.
God does not burden us with ideas our limited minds cannot perceive, but does state that it has not and cannot enter the mind of man what God has in store for those that love Him.
This brings us to Joeseph and the word perfect.
Joeseph received a double portion. Why? Because he continued on until the end, which is the word 'perfect'.
The overcomers, whether Israel, gentile, or the church, all have the idea of perfection, attaining the goal, which is to continue in faith unto the end.
We are not asked to understand any of these things. We are asked to believe what is written.
Believing = faith = overcomer.
Some do not continue in their faith. During the Acts, every single Hebrew person heard the good news. They had one shot. They either believed or they did not. If they did not they were damned = destroyed bodily. In the Acts period the children of Israel are likened to being "as the sand of the sea" (Rom. 9:27). It was God's purpose in these thirty-three-thirty-five years to sift through and test every grain of sand that made up this company. Among these were many true gems that would shine forth the moment they heard the message and saw its confirmation. These gems would have a special place and perform a special service in the day when He makes up His jewels (Mal. 3: 17). These become in truth "the Israel of God" (Gal. 6: 16).
At the close of the Acts period God had accomplished everything He set out to do. He had finished the work, He had cut it short in righteousness. A conclusive and concise work had been done on earth (Rom. 9: 28). Israel had heard the word and saw the works of God (Rom. 10:18). The Israel of God had been discovered (Gal. 6:16). The remnant had been established (Rom. 11:5). A definite company from among the Gentiles had been called for His name (Acts 15: 14). Everything was ready for the full establishment of the manifest kingdom of God upon the earth (Rom. 13:11, 12). But it did not come. At the close of the Acts period all of God's kingdom purposes were suspended while He accomplishes a purpose that had never before been revealed.
In the Acts dispensation the faith of a believer was always publicly accredited and confirmed by God. "These signs shall follow them that believe," was the promise of Jesus Christ (Mark 16:17). And they did (1 Cor. 1:6,7). A man's relationship to God was a manifest thing. There were no secret believers. The life of an Acts period believer was not "hid with Christ in God," as ours is today (Col. 3:3).
If a man could not immediately believe the testimony of a God-commissioned man speaking a divinely-inspired message, the. truth of which was confirmed by signs following, there was nothing more that God would do. All who heard were enlightened, they tasted of the heavenly gift, they were partakers of the Holy Spirit, they had tasted the good Word of God, and experienced the powers of the coming eon (Heb. 6:4, 5). If after all this they fell away it was impossible to bring them back again to the place of submission (Heb. 6:6-7).
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epouraniois
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but today I was thinking that the church, consisting mostly of the Gentiles, will be the priests and kings of the Lord God Jesus, a function which most of the tribes of Israel forfeited.
I had to stop right there, as Revelation is a book that explains God's perspective on when He again takes up His outworking with the tribes of Israel again. Israel forfeits nothing, receiving double for their shame even, Isa 61:7. The gifts and callings are without change of mind. Also see Jer31.31>>>
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not in heaven, thus, but on earth, in the holy portion of land will the glorified church live, while the tribes of Israel live outside this holy portion of land, as is clear from Ezekiel 48.
Again, this is Israel. The OT is about the channel to the nations, Israel. The chosen channel which are overcomers, as we know, are likened to a bride, and inherit a 'better country' which is New Jerusalem. The rest inherit the land.
They kingly priests (one thing not two) teach every person who ever lived, fulfilling their inheritance as a channel of blessings to the nations.
What was never revealed until the ()parenthesis, the time that now is, is that God also has a heavenly purpose having to do with a heavenly family. These are called out and chosen from all nations, but are not the nations who Israel shall be teaching. This new revelation given to the apostle for the hope of you nations (us right now) is so intimately linked with Christ that whatever Christ's glory and hope is, it belongs to the church as well.
What is being introduced in the prison epistles is nothing less than the closest relationship revealed in the Bible.
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if that was the case, then I had another question, "will the tribes of Israel also have a glorified body" like the church will have in the holy portion of land, or will the tribes not have a glorified body but the tribes of Israel will live long lives because of the protection of the Lord God Jesus in His holy portion.
WE need to get clear on the meaning of the word church.
All it means is a group who are called together for an assembly. It is even used of an angry mob in Acts.
Only one company of called out people are called 'the church'. Every other church body references a place where the assembly (church) met together.
Yes, everyone gets a glorified body, flesh and blood cannot enter...
And they will need one too, if they are going to occupy a structure that is 1,500 miles high, long, deep. They will be 'as the angels in heaven'.
The church is likened to a building being builded up, and the word in the Greek means completed. The church completes God. 'The church is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all'.
The reason there is no temple, is because we are the church which is His body (temple). The members of His body the church are the saints in light. IOW's, that shekina glory of the OT temple, that light is the church and God lives in that light.
This is what the Bible declares, leaving us with 3 adoptions;
1
in the earth
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in the heavenly city
3
far above all heavens of heavens
let me know if I have strayed to far from the question
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BORN AGAIN
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brother epouraniois, although you said that I was patronizing you (what does that mean, epour?), you got me thinking about something today.
I realize that in Ezekiel 48, the tribes of Israel are back in the land, as shown by these few verses:
Ezekiel 48
1 Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the way of Hethlon, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazarenan, the border of Damascus northward, to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides east and west; a portion for Dan.
2And by the border of Dan, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Asher.
epouraniois, I remembered that you said that Israel would inherit the land of Israel, and Ezekiel 48 shows that that is true. The land of Israel is divided to the tribes of Israel.
then I thought, "well, where will the church be then?", and I remembered your statement (correct me at any time) that the church would be in heaven.
but today I was thinking that the church, consisting mostly of the Gentiles, will be the priests and kings of the Lord God Jesus, a function which most of the tribes of Israel forfeited.
and I thought today, "then the church will, not go to heaven as you proposed, but the church will be the Lord God Jesus's kings and priests in the oblation of land of Ezekiel 45, the holy portion which is set aside for the Prince who will rule the earth on behalf of the Father.
Ezekiel 45
1Moreover, when ye shall divide by lot the land for inheritance, ye shall offer an oblation unto the LORD, an holy portion of the land: the length shall be the length of five and twenty thousand reeds, and the breadth shall be ten thousand. This shall be holy in all the borders thereof round about.
2Of this there shall be for the sanctuary five hundred in length, with five hundred in breadth, square round about; and fifty cubits round about for the suburbs thereof.
Now, dig this:
Ezekiel 45
4The holy portion of the land shall be for the priests the ministers of the sanctuary, which shall come near to minister unto the LORD: and it shall be a place for their houses, and an holy place for the sanctuary.
Revelation 5:10
And has made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
not in heaven, thus, but on earth, in the holy portion of land will the glorified church live, while the tribes of Israel live outside this holy portion of land, as is clear from Ezekiel 48.
if that was the case, then I had another question, "will the tribes of Israel also have a glorified body" like the church will have in the holy portion of land, or will the tribes not have a glorified body but the tribes of Israel will live long lives because of the protection of the Lord God Jesus in His holy portion.
I remember reading about "old men being under their fig trees" and "children being a 100 years old" (so to speak), and I had always wondered about those verses, but the above scenario could explain those verses for the tribes of Israel if Israel is not glorified.
Only the church, which consists mostly of Gentiles ("henceforth i go to the Gentiles" and "inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles"), the glorified church in the holy portion of land would be mostly Gentiles ("I will take the kingdom of God from you and give it to a nation which will bring forth the fruit thereof"), and that will be the location of the church then?
May the LORD YHWH of Israel bless us all, I am BORN AGAIN in the USA by the of God Yahshua-Jesus
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