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Topic: Is There More than One Gospel
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Amen Sis.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Why do you lie? I know well that you have not missed it; I am quite sure that you know it, but will claim that it speaks to the Baptism of the Spirit, but there is nothing there to say it was Baptism of the Spirit or Baptism with Water that was accompanied by Baptism by the Spirit or followed Baptism with the Spirit. Paul did see first then Paul was baptised!
Ananias said to Paul "Wash" away your sins.
Paul did baptise. Paul was not sent to baptise because Paul was sent to the Gentile, but Paul did Baptise in the name (authority of Christ)
Christ said go in the NATIONS baptising.
Peter explains the believer's water Baptism:
1 Peter 3:21 ¶ also to which an antitype doth now save us—baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ,
The outward public expression of the inner condition of the heart... a privlidge not to be denied the Gentile!
Here Paul baptises Gaus - A macedonian (Greek) and Stephanus - of Corinth:
1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1 Corinthians 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
In Romans Pauls says "We" were baptised UNTO Christ:
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Frankly, it is my personal belief that we really rob the Body of Christ by not teaching as Christ commanded including Baptism. There is something to be said about the real and physical beling lowered into the water a symbol of being lowered into the grave with Christ and rising out of the water. The church today is robbed of its position by the church's neglect in teaching the new believer to take that position (of death and rising) physically through baptism - water baptism of the believer in the name and authority of Christ. It is not a matter of salvation, but it is I believe a matter of walking in the wholeness of our salvation in this life... too many in the church cling to this body as if it were our life when the truth is that Christ is our life.
Christ who had no sin to repent of was baptised in water... why? To fulfill ALL righteousness. Why would we not in putting on Christ want to put on all of HIm including HIS baptism in water... as Peter said... not for the putting away of filth from the body for sin is not imputed to us, but for the answer of good conscience toward God!
I believe that Paul was baptised with water and by the Spirit. I believe that Paul and Silas baptised the Roman jailer as well.
Paul certainly taught the meaning of baptism to the believing and already born again Christian Church in the epistle to the Collossians.
1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
The church was born of the water of life and the blood that flowed from Christ's pierced side. The water of water baptism is a symbol through which we are baptised into HIS death and risen to life; it is a natural symbol of the supernatural work of God that is done in us by the power of the blood through the Spirit. It is not to be denied the gentile church... not even through our denial of its significance because there are two that bear witness in the earth... not two, but 3 the Spirit, the Blood and the Water!!!
I am sorry. I believe that the Pauline dispensationalist do wrongly divide the word. Paul was destined to take the Gospel to the Gentile, but Paul did preach to the Jew as well. Likewise the 12 were sent into the nations but did not realize that the Gentiles would come too and not just the Jews that were in the nations.
Paul clearly says that the mystery was given to all the saints. Peter said this was difficult to understand yet it must be understood. Paul said dont boast against the branches.
The church is one church Jew and Gentile. Paul was not building one church and the 12 building another. It is Christ's church that is being built and that church is one church.
Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
There is but one Gospel and it is Christ's Gospel.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
The church was made of Jews first - then the Greeks. One Church - One Gospel. One Baptism, One Spirit.
Paul is not the first member of the church; Paul says that the church is built on the foundation of the APOSTLES (Plural)
Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Paul was the last and the least of the Apostles and he knew it:
1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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epouraniois
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Were the verses showing Paul being baptized posted? I missed them.
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1 Peter 5:1 ¶ Elders who are among you, I exhort, who am a fellow-elder, and a witness of the sufferings of the Christ, and of the glory about to be revealed a partaker,
Exactly, during the Acts there was one thing in view, the eminent return of the Lord.
They all expected His 'coming'. His parousia. The demands that He leave the sphere of the superheavenllies and come down to the earth. This requires movement on the part of Christ.
With the revelatin of the church of the one body, the parousia of Christ falls aside and takes it's place with Israel's hope in its intirety, and we learn that the church which is His body appears ro manifests when He manifests, and that right now He is hid in God, and we are hid in Christ with God, Col3. 3-4.
Your remark on gentile repentance, also good call:
Amo 3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
Only Israel was called to repentance, which is a terribly poor translation. 'Metanoia' means to have the after-mindedness, wherein Israel was to awaken to her being misguided by those who sat in Moses' seat, and then Turn, or better, reTurn to the Lord for the receiving of her promised kingdom to fulfill the commission given in Mat28, now in abayance.
When Christ who is our life appears, we shall appear with Him in Glory. This requires no movement on the part of the Lord.
Repentance is not taught to the church of the one body, but is mentioned once as being given by God:
2Ti 2:24
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Should we repent? You bet. Every time we see ourselves missing the moral mark we should have the after-mindedness to feel sorrow and rejoice in prayer of our ability to acknowledge every good work that He may do in us, for we are His workmanship. But this is not the repentance that was preached to the Jews who crucified their Savior, King, High Priest, and Lord.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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did peter teach about appearing with Christ when Christ appears?
When Christ appears, He will appear to take possession of HIS eartly kingdom. Peter was apostle to the Jew. The Jew had the oracles of God and the prophesy - they expected the righteous to be there for this event. Martha expressed this when she spoke of knowing that they would rise and Jesus replied "I AM the resurrection". The Jew who knew Christ was the Messiah knew that HIS kingdom was not now of the earth... Christ had told them this. They knew that they were part of that kingdom by their being the RIGHTEOUS. Peter did not have to teach them about appearing with Christ when he sets his foot on the mount of olives as the king of the kings because every Jew from their father's on expected to be part of this. What Peter had to teach was that righteousness came not by the law, but by grace that had now been manifest in the flesh and was no more part of the Law... that Grace of course being Christ.
1 Peter 5:1 ¶ Elders who are among you, I exhort, who am a fellow-elder, and a witness of the sufferings of the Christ, and of the glory about to be revealed a partaker,
That Glory is HIS coming in Glory!!!
1 Peter 5:4 and at the manifestation of the chief Shepherd, ye shall receive the unfading crown of glory.
2 Peter 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
And while Peter taught the looking for this earthly coming of the king to this present earth, make no mistake that Peter also taught that this earth was not the final end all place that he was promised:
2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
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did peter teach about being seated with Christ in heavenly places far above all? did peter teach about being blessed with every spiriual gift God has to give in heavenly places?
He must have if they are teaching the same gospel.
What does it mean to be seated in heavenly places?
Paul tells us -
Ephesians 1:3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Being seated with Christ in the heavenlies means that we are the righteousness of God now, though we live in the earth:
John taught it: John you know John apostle to the Jew:
1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Peter did also teach it:
2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2 peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
1 Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.
1 Peter 5:10 ¶ But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
1 Peter 4:1 ¶ Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1 Peter 3:18 ¶ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1 Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1 Peter 2:4 ¶ To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:.
1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Peter certainly did teach that born again Jew was blessed with all spiritual blessing! His teaching sounded different than Paul's because Peter understood that the Jew had always been here on this earth to be a witness to the Gentile what the righteousness of God looked like and when Peter taught, HE taught them to do and live what they were called to do and to live... He taught that their lives should look like they were a Royal Priesthood a Holy Nation, a peaople who were now righteous before God.
This has always been what the Jew was to do. Thus Peter says:
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1 Peter 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
The life of the believing Jew was going to be different than the life here of the Gentile church and that was because the Jew was going to be tried... their faith would be tested, they had the opportunity to fall back to the old ways. The Gentile church did not have this temptation or trial because for us there was no way to God before. We had never considered ourselves to be the righteousness of God; the rest of the world never considered us to be the righteousness of God. The Jew had been under the Law the righteousness of God. Now that righteousness was through grace and faith that was no more hidden, but was manifest and they should be living as the righteousness of God that they were because they could and because they believing in Christ had been empowered to do so...Peter was exhoirting them to act like they were what they were, but Peter was in no way denying the spiritual blessing with witch they were blessed. However, you can not discount in evaluating Peter's teachings that he spoke to Jews who had the oracles of God to tell them what righteousness was supposed to look like.
Pail taught that we are seated in the heavenlies with Christ; blessed with all spiritual blessing and he taught what that means and it means that we are righteous now because of Christ.
Peter taught this too; and He taught that we should look like it to the Gentile world.
quote:
Please present the verses to the three questions above.
oh yes, and please present the verses where paul's gospel is to repent and be baptized.
What did the Gentile have to repent of? Not being a Jew?????? Of Adam's inehrited sin????
Paul did baptise; Paul was baptised. When Paul taught the Jew Paul did teach the things of God which included for the Jew repentence of sin and the washing in baptism. Paul did teach what Jesus taught as all that Jesus taught was of God and Jesus said go and teach them to observe all that I have commanded and BAPTISE. So you know that Paul taught the oracles of God including baptism for the remission of sins.
But for the Gentile, there was no sin because there was no law! they were never under law! The Gentile was estranged from God by Adam's sin.
However, Baptism should not be denied the Gentile and Paul did not oppose that teaching! Further, Paul did teach the spiritual significcance of Baptism in the letter to the Collosains.
Paul did ensure the baptism of the Holy Spirit as well. And this is witnessed in his converastion with those who had only been baptised with John's baptism.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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Matt. 28:
18: And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Acts 8:
34: And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35: Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36: And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37: And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38: And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39: And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
40: But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.
Acts 9:
15: But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
17: And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18: And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
19: And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
1 Cor. 1:
14: I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15: Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16: And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17: For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18: For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19: For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20: Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21: For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22: For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24: But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25: Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26: For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
The theology of the Pauline dispensationalist has rejected the Great Commission as being ONLY for Israel and NOT for all Believers, and the faith and practice of the Church of Acts as being non-applicable to the Church tody.
The heresy of the ultra-dispensationalist divides the Word of God and sets a large portion aside, especially the very Words of Christ.
The Gospel which Christ declared, the Gospel which Phillip preached, which Peter preached, which Paul preached, which John declared those who opposed to were antichrist, is rejected by the ultrdispensationalists in their heresy.
John 3:
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Acts 2:
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41: Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42: And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
To the twelve He said: "Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" (Matthew 18:18). The apostles' doctrine is not something they invented themselves. It is in complete agreement with the determination of God.
Through divine guidance the apostles established doctrines and practices for the church, nothing other than what God had established in heaven.
Through divine inspiration the apostles also revoked certain things, such as the Old Covenant, things God had also revoked in heaven.
The apostles were ambassadors of Christ led by God's Spirit.
When Jesus gave the seventy-two prophetic power and sent them out to preach, He said: "He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me" (Luke 10:16).
One trick of some false teachers is to claim that we must listen to the words of Jesus in the Gospels, but that we do not have to obey the teaching of the apostles in the later books.
But in the Gospels Jesus says we must listen to His apostles and that we reject Him if we reject their words.
Only a portion of the doctrine of Christ was made known during His ministry on earth. After His ascension He revealed many additional teachings to the apostles through the Holy Spirit. Shortly before His death He said: "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come" (John 16:12,13). "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you" (John 14:26).
The Holy Spirit revealed all truth to the apostles, He taught them all things, also things Jesus had not yet made known during his life on earth.
When people claim that the words of Jesus in the Gospels are authoritative but the words of the apostles are not, they are rejecting the words of Jesus in the Gospels because He says that we must obey the apostles or we reject both Him and the Father.
The church is built on the teaching of the apostles, which is nothing other than the teaching of Christ, made known through them and subsequently recorded in the New Testament. Together with Christ, the apostles and prophets form the foundation of the church: "Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone" (Ephesians 2:19,20).
Also in the first century there were false teachers who rejected the authority of the apostles. Paul warned: "If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord" (1 Corinthians 14:37).
We must avoid people who reject the authority of the apostles: "Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple" (Romans 16:17,18).
People who deviate from the doctrine of the apostles, cause division and apostasy. We must note them and avoid them, keep away from them. Even though they come with smooth words and flattering speech, they are not servants of Christ, they serve their own belly, their own base and ignoble desires. We are commanded to avoid them.
It is only through the apostles and their teaching that we can have fellowship with God and Christ. John wrote: "That which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ" (1 John 1:3).
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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epouraniois
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quote:
Acts 20:
21: Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 6:
1: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3: Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
oh come on Drew, quit pretending we weren't talking about water baptism.
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Amen Linda!!!!!!!!!
Well said and well posted.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Thank you BA; I agree and have corrected my bolding.
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BORN AGAIN
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that was a terrific reply by helpforhomeschoolers and her Co-Worker the Holy Spirit of Israel.
you write quote:
Eph.3:5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it was now revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit
you forgot to highlight "in the Spirit" in your post, which was actually one of the most important parts, the wireless system which the Lord would use, and thus post-Pentecost revelation, which "was to be revealed...in the Spirit" which we now had.
May the LORD YHWY God of Israel bless us, I am BORN AGAIN by the ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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timspong
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All Glory to God!
That was great
Amen
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Yours in Christ
Timothy Michael Spong
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Amen Drew ONE Gospel, preached to different peoples at different times, but still one Gospel, ONE Church Jew and Gentile!
Paul may have been the first to understand that it was for the Gentile as well as the Jew, but it was the same Gospel that had been given to Peter. Peter acknowledged this at the Jeruslem Council.
Jesus said that there were things that he could not tell them when he left the disciples, but that the Spirit would tell them, and I believe that this was one of those things...Peter & John did error, but when the Spirit spoke in Paul... they heard and they did heed.
Paul never claims that the Gospel he received was a different Gospel. Paul claims that his was dispensed grace to take to the Gentiles who had never know Grace, except that they became prosthlytes.
Still, Paul says that the MYSTERY was given to ALL the saints...
Ephesians 3:2 if, indeed, ye did hear of the dispensation of the grace of God that was given to me in regard to you,
Paul was to take the dispensation of the Grace of God to the Gentiles- But there is ONLY ONE Dispensation of the Grace of God since the time that Christ was crucified and risen.
3 that by revelation He made known to me the secret, according as I wrote before in few words —
Paul says it was made know to him the secret. But Paul does not say that it was made known only to him! In fact he says the opposite in the verses to come.
4 in regard to which ye are able, reading it, to understand my knowledge in the secret of the Christ,
Paul tells who it was secret to... Other generations..
5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it was now revealed to His holy apostles and prophetsin the Spirit—
BUT PAUL SAY NOW REVEALED TO THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS... NOT Just to Paul!
6 that the nations be fellow-heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in the Christ, through the good news,
What is the secret? The Mystery of the church? Paul says it right there in verse 6 that the NATIONS would be fellow heirs and of the same body as Christ... through what? The same GOOD NEWS that was given to all ... the manifestation of God's Grace - God in the flesh, Emanuel, Jesus Christ the Messiah.... born, crucified, died, buried, risen and ascended, coming again in GLORY... ONE Gospel for all - Jew and Gentile! The fact that we have it all - the whole progression, does not make it a different gospel than the one Christ HIMSELF taught.
7 of which I became a ministrant, according to the gift of the grace of God that was given to me, according to the working of His power;
8 to me—the less than the least of all the saints—was given this grace, among the nations to proclaim good news—the untraceable riches of the Christ,
9 and to cause all to see what is the fellowship of the secret that hath been hid from the ages in God, who the all things did create by Jesus Christ,
One Gospel! Amen!
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Quote:
oh yes, and please present the verses where paul's gospel is to repent and be baptized.
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Acts 20:
21: Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 6:
1: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3: Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Peter did not need to go into a dogmatic reiteration as he in his epistles substantiated Paul's writings, validating the ONE GOSPEL of salvation and glorious redemptive promise.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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epouraniois
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did peter teach about appearing with Christ when Christ appears?
did peter teach about being seated with Christ in heavenly places far above all?
did peter teach about being blessed with every spiriual gift God has to give in heavenly places?
He must have if they are teaching the same gospel.
Please present the verses to the three questions above.
oh yes, and please present the verses where paul's gospel is to repent and be baptized.
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If they are the same gospels, then why is the Holy Spirit giving them different names?
If they are the same gospel,then why don't they preach the same message?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/bewareof-hyperdisp.html
Yet, there is actually no difference between the gospel preached by Peter and that which Paul preached. Peter preached salvation through the blood of Christ (1 Pet. 1:2), salvation by God’s free mercy (1 Peter 1:3), the new birth (1 Peter 1:3), eternal security because of the resurrection of Christ (1 Pet. 1:3-4). Further, Acts 15 plainly states that all of the apostles, including Peter and Paul, agreed on the gospel. And Paul states in Galatians 1, that anyone who preached a different gospel was cursed. If Peter were truly preaching a different gospel in those days, he would have fallen under this curse. Paul plainly said in 1 Cor. 15:11-14 that they all preached the same gospel.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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If they are the same gospels, then why is the Holy Spirit giving them different names?
If they are the same gospel,then why don't they preach the same message?
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2 Peter 1:
1: Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2 Peter 3:
1: This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2: That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
15: And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17: Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18: But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
1 Peter 1:
1: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4: To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5: Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Gal. 2:
3: But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4: And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5: To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6: But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
7: But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8: (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
9: And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
10: Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
11: But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12: For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13: And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14: But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15: We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16: Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
It is NOT two Gospels but the same Gospel to two different peoples.
1 Cor. 15:
9: For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10: But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11: Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
12: Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13: But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
There is one Gospel.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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epouraniois
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Responding to what Drew said:
While Peter and Paul each taught truth, and each given to speak of the good news, are they really the same:
Gal 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;
The Acts has for it's period, the commision given the disciples, as they are becoming apostles now, in Mar16:
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved (Mark 16:16).
Surely we will find Peter following the Lord's instructions, yes? Let's see:
1Pet 3:21
. The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
How about Paul, what does he have to say about this doctrine:
1Cor 1:17
. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
See any difference there?
Moreover, the command concerning baptism in Mar16, is followed by a promise ‘these signs shall follow them that believe’; which signs did follow during the period covered by the Acts but do not follow to-day.
During the Acts, water baptism and the baptism of the Spirit went together (Acts 2:38; 10:47).
Baptism during the early ministry of Paul:
1. united the believer by burial with the death of Christ (Rom. 6:3,4).
2. united Jew and Gentile making them ‘all one in Christ and Abraham’s seed’ (Gal. 3:27-29).
3. baptizing these believers into one body, with particular reference to the exercise of spiritual gifts (1 Cor. 12:13).
John Baptist
Water ONLY
with promise of
spirit baptism
Acts Period
Water --- and --- Spirit
Mystery
Spirit ONLY
The baptism of Colossians 2 is not likened to anything that was introduced into the Aaronic priesthood or tabernacle service, it is likened to the initiatory rite of circumcision. Now in Colossians 2 this circumcision is the spiritual equivalent of that practised by the Jew, it is explicitly said to be ‘the circumcision made without hands’, and repudiates ‘the body of the flesh’, and this is accomplished ‘by the circumcision of Christ’.
See any differences yet?
Furthermore,
Peter never taught about anyone being seated with Christ in heavenly places, never taught about the mystery given only to Paul, even the mystery hid in God from ages [of time] and from generations [of men].
While Peter's ministry closed with his kinsmen of the flesh being set amidst the nations, having spoken to gentiles ONE time and one time only, Paul's became one of a prisoner of Christ Jesus for the hope of you gentiles and introduces a newly created body of believers chosen in Christ from before the foundation of the world.
Peter only taught of those things he had seen, which were chosen since the foundation of the world.
Although several of the component peices are similar, and every one of them true, it becomes clear that there are more than one GOOD NEWS being preached in the Bible:
1. The gospel of the KINGDOM (Matt. 4:23).
2. The gospel of Jesus Christ . . . the KINGDOM of GOD (Mark 1:1,14).
3. The gospel preached to every creature with SIGNS FOLLOWING (Mark 16:15,17,18).
4. The gospel of GOD (Rom. 1:1).
5. The gospel of Hls SON (Rom. 1:9).
6. The gospel of CHRIST (Rom. 1:16).
7. My gospel (Rom. 2:16, 16:25, 2 Tim. 2:8).
8. The glorious gospel or the gospel of the GLORY of Christ (2 Cor. 4:4).
9. The gospel of the UNCIRCUMCISION (Gal. 2:7).
10. The gospel of the CIRCUMCISION (Gal. 2:7).
11. The gospel of the GRACE of GOD (Acts 20:24).
12. The gospel ofYouR SALVATION (Eph. 1:13).
13. The gospel of PEACE (Eph. 6:15).
14. The gospel of the GLORY of the BLESSED GOD (1 Tim. 1:11).
15. The EVERLASTING gospel (Rev. 14:6).
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http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/bewareof-hyperdisp.html
Yet, there is actually no difference between the gospel preached by Peter and that which Paul preached. Peter preached salvation through the blood of Christ (1 Pet. 1:2), salvation by God’s free mercy (1 Peter 1:3), the new birth (1 Peter 1:3), eternal security because of the resurrection of Christ (1 Pet. 1:3-4). Further, Acts 15 plainly states that all of the apostles, including Peter and Paul, agreed on the gospel. And Paul states in Galatians 1, that anyone who preached a different gospel was cursed. If Peter were truly preaching a different gospel in those days, he would have fallen under this curse. Paul plainly said in 1 Cor. 15:11-14 that they all preached the same gospel.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Why don't you begin by saying what is false, rather than simply accusing? or do you have spirits inside you causing such a scene?
Israel is blinded:
Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27
For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28
As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.
Rom 11:30
For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31
Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The gentiles had no hope of their own, as they were made partakers of Israel's spiritual things:
Rom 15:27
It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
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The Bible, does it not make clear that the Acts period churchES Plural, are made blinded, and set aside till the times of the gentiles be full?
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Caretaker:
False!!!
It is the Church of Acts, and it is the same Gospel which our Lord spoke, which Peter preached, which Phillip declared, and which was revealed through Paul.
John 3:
14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Matt. 28:
19: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Acts 1:
4: And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5: For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6: When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7: And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Acts 2:
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41: Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42: And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43: And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
44: And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45: And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46: And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47: Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Acts 8:
35: Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36: And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37: And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38: And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39: And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
40: But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.
Romans 10:
8: But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
1 Peter 1:
1: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4: To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5: Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Peter 3:
1: This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2: That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
15: And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17: Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18: But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
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You wrest scriptures out of context to substantiate your personal precepts, thus making artificial divisions which are not of God and do injustice to His Word.
Open your heart and mind to the purity and simplicity of the Gospel message, and the eternal Truth of God.
1 Cor. 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
You say you have studied for two years. That is commendable, but one wonders what you have studied and at whose feet you kneel, that you have been led astray from the simplicity and fullness of the Gospel of CHRIST, the doctrines of the Apostles, and the fullness of the revelation of the mysteries in Paul.
Many here have decades of study, and the studies of hundreds of years to substantiate God's truth. There is ONE GOSPEL forward from the Cross of Calvary:
Acts 10:
34: Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36: The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
37: That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38: How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39: And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41: Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42: And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43: To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44: While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45: And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46: For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48: And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Gal. 3:
22: But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23: But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24: Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25: But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26: For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27: For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29: And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Hyper-Dispensationalism, also known as Ultra-Dispensationalism, is the name given to Dispensationalists who believe Paul was the first member of the body of Christ.
The Bible doesn't say that, and I have never thought that, has never entered my mind.
By what I understand of your reasoning, Paul would be the greatest apostle, but the Bible makes a different declaration:
Heb 3:1
. Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
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well well well, ouch.
quote:
These people of “the first Covenant” who believed in Jesus as the Messiah were transferred into “the second church” of “the second Covenant”, and to this “second church”, which is us, are added to things
The Bible, does it not make clear that the Acts period churchES Plural, are made blinded, and set aside till the times of the gentiles be full?
And equally expressive is the terms employeed, this church of the dispensation of the mystery is not the same people, but a new creation made not of any conglamoration or old body, but created from a chosen company from before the foundation of the world, whereas the former who were set aside being chosen since the foundation of the world.
Think!
If they became the church of the one body, then God would be unable to call them to their inheritance, namely the earth or the heavenly city, because they would be in heaven.
No.
There are clearly 3 adoptions in Scripture.
Each adoption places the memberships into one of the 3 spheres of blessings.
God shall have a family in both heaven and earth.
All who fail to overcome will be under the leadership of Israelite preists.
The overcomers of Israell and those few gentiles for the 18 year period when God used them to provoke Isreal thereby have their reward in the New Jerusalem.
The overcomers of the church of the one body, His body, called: the fulness of Him that filleth all in all, have their enjoyment far above all where Christ sits, in the superheavenlies.
My fathers don't know who their fathers were. My fathers didn't have a first covenant. To have a second covenant, the first covenant is absolutely necessary. Only Israel has been and shall be in covenant relationship with God.
What is the hope of your calling. Can you quote it?
Being that I have been studying for nearly 2 years, what does that say about God's children? Is He laughing or crying while shaking His hanging head? Can you say, touche?
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dear epouraniois, I do agree that there are probably 4 “gospels” or so, described in the Bible, but I think these “gospels” constituted the progressive revelation of the Living God who created the heavens and the earth, namely the LORD God of Israel progressively revealed Himself to the earth, to Israel first, and secondarily to the nations.
it is good and healthful for the bones to know about the “gospels” of the LORD in the Bible.
I liked your reference to “Israel in the wilderness” being called “a church”. Israel was as it were, “the first church”, but since the first church Israel of the First (Old) Covenant did not have the Holy Spirit given to Israel because the payment for sin had not yet been made by Jesus of Nazareth.
So we are “the second church[/b], consisting of the Israelites/Judahites who survived by “the first Covenant” by believing unto the end of their lives that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah.
These people of “the first Covenant” who believed in Jesus as the Messiah were transferred into “the second church” of “the second Covenant”, and to this “second church”, which is us, are added to things:
1. to the “second church” was added the daily counsel of the Holy Spirit because sins have been forgiven through Jesus’s death on the cross.
2. to the “second church” was added the Gentile believers that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah.
So we are “the second church” which now consists of transferred Israelites/Judahite believers and of Gentile believers, and they both have the daily counsel of the Holy Spirit because forgiveness of sins was attained through Jesus’s death on the cross.
(but glory to the LORD God of Israel, Jesus rose from the dead on the third day, as He had said).
anyway, epouraniois, to quote a Pauline prison statement, "much learning has made you mad." ![[1zhelp]](graemlins/1zhelp.gif) ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
(only just sort of kidding. you do seem to have studied a lot and know a lot, which is nice. how do you like this CBBS?) ("I liked it a lot before you said that, BORN AGAIN")
but, assuming that you are fishing ("follow me and I will make you fishers of men"), you are fishing for some complicated fish.
though there are teachers appointed to the second church, to the "caught fish" so to speak.
aren't you glad that you are a caught fish?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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Hyper-Dispensationalism, also known as Ultra-Dispensationalism, is the name given to Dispensationalists who believe Paul was the first member of the body of Christ. The word "Hyper" does not imply anything negative; instead, it only designates those who take Dispensationalism further than Traditional Dispensationalists do. Among Hyper-Dispensationalists, there are two major divisions, commonly known as the mid-Acts viewpoint (which takes its name from the belief that Paul became the first member of the body of Christ during the mid-Acts period), and the Acts 28 viewpoint (which takes its name from the belief that only Paul's prison and Pastoral epistles, which were written after Acts chapter 28, apply directly to the church in this present dispensation of grace).
There is an ongoing debate among Dispensationalists as to which books of the New Testament were written to Christians today. The outcome of this debate is directly associated with when the present church began. Traditional Dispensationalists believe the church began sometime between the birth of Christ and Acts chapter 2, and that the majority (if not all) of the New Testament was written to the church today. By contrast, most Pauline Dispensationalists (also known as Hyper-Dispensationalists or Ultra-Dispensationalists) believe the church began with the apostle Paul at some point during the book of Acts. Consequently, most Pauline Dispensationalists believe that only some or all of Paul's epistles were written directly to Christians today. Among Hyper-Dispensationalists, those in the Acts 28 category don't believe the present church began until Acts 28 (or shortly thereafter), which means that only the epistles Paul wrote after that time apply to the church today. The Opposing Views category is for sites that address the debate between these differing viewpoints.
Progressive Dispensationalism teaches that certain promises concerning the New Covenant are currently being fulfilled by the church today, in the dispensation of grace. These promises initially began to be fulfilled when the Lord established the New Covenant with the believing "remnant" of Israel. Upon His ascension, the Lord began ruling on the throne of David in Heaven. Subsequently, the prophesied salvation of Gentiles began to be fulfilled in this present dispensation of grace, when the apostle Paul was sent to the Gentiles. At that time, believing Gentiles also began to partake of the New Covenant promises.
Traditional Dispensationalism maintains a firm distinction between the Church and the nation of Israel. Many Traditional Dispensationalists may also teach that there are certain Pauline "truths" that are unique to Paul's epistles. While most Traditional Dispensationalists do not place undue emphasis upon Pauline doctrine, there are always exceptions.
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Luke 1:
1: Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
2: Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
3: It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
4: That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
Acts 1:
1: The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2: Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
1 Peter 1:
1: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4: To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5: Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Peter 1:
1: Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3: According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5: And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6: And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7: And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8: For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor. 1:
1: Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2: Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4: I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5: That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6: Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7: So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9: God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
10: Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11: For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12: Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13: Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14: I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15: Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16: And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17: For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18: For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19: For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20: Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21: For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22: For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24: But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25: Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26: For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28: And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29: That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30: But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
The writings/Books of the New Testament were written for and to Believers.
3 John 1:
1: The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.
2: Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
3: For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth.
4: I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
5: Beloved, thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the brethren, and to strangers;
6: Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, thou shalt do well:
7: Because that for his name's sake they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles.
8: We therefore ought to receive such, that we might be fellowhelpers to the truth.
9: I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
10: Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.
11: Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.
12: Demetrius hath good report of all men, and of the truth itself: yea, and we also bear record; and ye know that our record is true.
13: I had many things to write, but I will not with ink and pen write unto thee:
14: But I trust I shall shortly see thee, and we shall speak face to face. Peace be to thee. Our friends salute thee. Greet the friends by name.
2 John 1:
1: The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2: For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
3: Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
4: I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.
5: And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
6: And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
7: For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8: Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9: Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10: If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
12: Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.
13: The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.
1 John 1:
1: That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2: (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
3: That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4: And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5: This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6: If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
John 1:
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: The same was in the beginning with God.
3: All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4: In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5: And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6: There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7: The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8: He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9: That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10: He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11: He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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One should be cautious in the theological school of ultra-dispensationalism, that we not seek to establish a Pauline-dispensation, and relegate the Words of Christ to exclusively a Jewish "kingdom-only" interpretation.
John 14:
26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Acts 1:
3: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4: And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5: For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6: When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7: And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10: And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
The Holy Ghost came as per the promise of the Master, and He indwelt the Church and led them in truth, and the message preached was consistant with the Pauline Epistles. 3000 brethren came to Christ as Peter preached his first sermon.
Acts 2:
36: Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41: Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 10:
34: Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36: The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
37: That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38: How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39: And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41: Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42: And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43: To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44: While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45: And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46: For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48: And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days
Peter brought the Gospel to the gentiles, the same Gospel which Jesus preached and which Paul preached.
John 3:
14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Romans 10:
8: But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
1 Cor. 15:
1: Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2: By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3: For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4: And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7: After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8: And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9: For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10: But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11: Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
12: Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13: But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15: Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16: For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18: Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19: If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20: But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
2 Peter 3:
1: This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2: That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4: And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5: For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11: Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12: Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13: Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14: Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15: And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17: Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18: But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Acts 8:
32: The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33: In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34: And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35: Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36: And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37: And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38: And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39: And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
40: But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.
Were Peter, Phillip, John, etc. preaching a different Gospel than Paul?
Eph. 2:
8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11: Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12: That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14: For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15: Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16: And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18: For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19: Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20: And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21: In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
It is by faith alone in Christ alone that the lost are redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb.
If one is truly saved through heart belief, and not just lip-service confession, then the Fruit of the Spirit will be manifested. Please note that one of the Fruit is faith, and it is this manifestation in the sinner's heart which saves them. Faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois writes quote:
Clearly many are offended that the Bible teaches more than one gospel.
"clearly"? "many"? "offended"?
says who?
BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois
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No reason to be recondite here.
None of the gospels are invalid, and all are but glorious.
Like faithful Abraham, there seems to be reward in view for those who want the best things.
Should anyone be expected to except a gospel that leaves out the blood of Christ? or His work on the tree?
Clearly many are offended that the Bible teaches more than one gospel. Perhaps the offense is due to the realization that many such good news being taught in the Bible, is different than what they have been taught, what they have come to believe.
If we have been taught differently, isn't it a good thing to realize that there are more than one outworkings of God bringing good news to each and every man in every time and place under the sun?
After all, this isn't God's plan of redemtion for us only. His plan includes everyone everywhere in all times, no matter how different the dispensational plan is one from another.
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
Gal. 3:
28: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29: And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
2 Peter 3:
15: And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17: Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18: But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Matt. 28:
19: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
John 3:
14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19: And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21: But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Romans 10:
9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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timspong
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Member # 5240
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posted
I agree that this kind of worldly logic makes the wonderfully simple Bible very complicated.
1co 1:19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
The Bible is for a simple man to understand with divine revelation.
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Yours in Christ
Timothy Michael Spong
Posts: 146 | From: Lagos, Nigeria | Registered: Nov 2005
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WhiteEagle
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Member # 3728
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posted
While what you write is interesting from an intellectual perspective, it doesn't tell people how God applies to them personally.
God may have different plans for different people's lives, but all of us are the same when it comes to how one gets Saved.
There were no "Jewish" people until Abraham, and Abraham wasn't Jewish, or Hebrew even. That concept wasn't even born yet.
How did people get saved before Abraham? Would God have left those people without hope?
Even Cain and Abel knew that animal sacrifice was required by God for forgiveness of their sins.
You are making a simple thing very complicated.
While it's interesting from a debate perspective, it isn't very applicable to real life.
Why did Eve succumb to the serpent's deceit? Why did Adam eat the fruit?
Ask yourself what was the root cause of their sin?
Gentiles, Jews, all peoples come from Adam and Eve. All of us.
God selected a people to be His people. Abraham's seed. Why was Abraham selected? What did Abraham have?
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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epouraniois
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posted
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Why was salvation sent to the nations? Anybody ever ask themselves?
Do we find a King preached in the prison epistles? Nope.
During Acts, Paul was told to preach the things he had seen, and that he did. The apostle was also told to preach the things that God would appear unto him, and he did that too.
Christ risen, speaking to Paul:
Act 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
So Paul had a two-fold ministry during Acts. The things he had seen was exactly what Stephen and other apostles had been preaching and Paul had heard, and Paul knew the scriptures very well. After Damascus Road, Paul realized that this Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah. Paul had to readjust his thinking. Maybe we do too. Paul never forgot that he had persecuted his LORD and King. Yes, Paul was a humbled man.
When Paul spoke of salvation being sent to the gentiles, there was the assumption that it was the same salvation that was sent to the Jews. John 4:22 tells us that salvation is of the Jews. Is there more than one gospel?
Lets preach John the Baptist’s gospel then. It doesn’t speak of the death of Christ, nothing about the blood, or redemption, the resurrected Christ. It doesn’t have any of those things we rejoice in. As far as it goes, is to teach repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand. When the Lord taught, He taught repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Christ sent the 12 out to all the surrounding villages with the same message. Then He sent 70 out,[Luke 10:1] preaching repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Four separate witnesses, teaching the same gospel.
In John’s gospel the word repent is not used once. John used the word believe 100 times, but didn’t use the word faith at all. Is it the same gospel? In the prison epistles Paul too, didn’t preach repent for salvation.
The purpose of asking those particular questions was to begin a thinking process leading up to the facts that, although John the Baptist did preach the good news, it was valid when it was preached, it leaves out the atoning blood of Christ, says nothing of His resurrection, not to mention the cross, and mentions nothing of the reconciliation. John the Baptist had a simple and straightforward gospel. It was two fold. One was the coming of the promised Lord of the OT. One was to the pharasees there that Israel was to be hewn down soon.
Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire
John is quoting Scripture, for Israel, it was time to receive the promised Messiah, God with us. That was the good news. The alternitive to receiving all that God had to offer was foretold just as much as the good news of the gospel of the coming kingdom.
The Lord Christ Jesus had the same ministry, saying repent the kingdom is at hand, it is near. Warning that every tree that fails to bear fruit was to cut down to the root. The root is the prophets. That is what the NT kingdom was always built on.
Nevertheless, we read of more than one gospel, more than one good news. Throughout the Gospels, although the good news was preached, and the good news was certainly valid at the time of preaching, today we find some to be incomplete, for as the Lord Chrsit Jesus clearly said, He would send the Comforter who was to speak of Him, glorify Him, and teach them all things:
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
So then, by our Lord and Saviors own decree, He had not told them all things. He had not told them of all the good news He would later reveal. All things would not be revealed till after the Comforter would be sent. So there is even more good news that is later revealed. This means a more complete gospel.
Act 26:16 alone tells us that in Paul alone, there would be two gospels preached. One of the things he had seen, and one the Lord would reveal to him later.
There is the gospel of the circumcision, set against the gospel of the uncircumcision in Galations.
What dispensationalism brings into focus, is a belief that God has an overall plan. And in this plan runs a certain standard, a certain truth which applies to everyone in all times, such as sin and death and the need of a Savior, the means is the same, it is by the blood of the risen Christ by His sacrifice on the tree when He stooped down and took on the form of a slave *servant*.
But there are other things which are very specific, applying only to the time and the people to which they are addressed.
That God has made distinctions, calling them be name, showing by example, contrast, type, and shadow as to the direction His plan unfolds into.
Dispensationalists believe that God has made divisions, that there are certain very specific differences which do not go beyond the time and purpose for which they are written. I believe further that before all nations were sent the Salvation of God, when God's outworking was dealing only for Israel's hope, there was no reason for the instruction to be rightly dividing. The very oracles of God they had in their possession were all written for them, to them, by them who are Israelites. They alone had the oracles of God, the law, and the angelic messengers of truth. But when the Salvation of God was sent to the nations, Israel fell into the Lo-ammi prophecy, being set amidst the nations in an untold period of abayance, that it is given to us nations who do now so receive the further instruction to be rightly dividing the word of truth. Any failure to do so is to be found ashamed.
In Galatians, Paul emphatically preached that if any came preaching another gospel than the one he preached, “let him be accursed”. Then after Acts, that is exactly what Paul did. Being that this is all God-Breathed inspired writing, how could Paul say accursed is another Gospel, then proceed to do that very thing? Well, it is because the gospel to those during Acts had their special gospel in that period of God's outworking when the hope of Israel was in view, when the eminent return of the Lord from Heaven was in view, when simply believing was in view for the Jews to whom it was written. Only after Israel refused national repentance did the apostle preach another gospel to another people towards another purpose, but always by the blood of the cross and the risen Savior.
So we have real problems, if we are to believe there was only one gospel preached. The only answer is that different messages are given to different people according to the specific nature in God's outworking as it fits into the overall plan of redeeming the whole world.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation:
This doesn’t speak to the Jews, it says “your salvation”. In ch2, Paul anticipates himself here in 1. 13, to v5, so leading onto the target audience in v11, where we find he is speaking to the nations, and not the Jews.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by (grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Was there any gospel ever preached without grace? Nope. That isn’t the difference here. Salvation is always by grace. The difference is that it is written for the heavenly hope of the nations, and not written to the hope of the Jews kingdom that was offered back in Acts.
In Romans *Acts*, we find, that it is written to Jew and gentile believers in the churches at Rome. That isn’t the same gospel as Ephesians then. That one brought the gentile believer in under the promises made with Israel.
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery;
The mystery of Christ was never revealed completely until it was made known unto Paul, as revealed in Acts 26:16, that it would be.
Before acts 28:28 no one ever heard about Christ being the head of the church, which is His body. Till this point, AD62-64, the kingdom was preached, not the church.
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
And beyond that, Christ is the head over all things in creation, both in heaven and in earth. Before these teachings, no one ever considered going up into heaven and sitting at the right hand of God, but we are now told that the calling in this church, the church which is His body, is teaching this very thing, the glorious position found with Christ far above all heavens. This is not the same gospel as any to come before or since.
It cannot be the same gospel taught by Peter, or Stephen, or James, or Jude, or Christ, or John.
This new gospel expands the position of the believer far above all. It couldn’t be preached at any earlier time. It was hid in God, until God revealed it unto Paul. And that wasn't till after Acts was over historically. Meaning after Israel took her place amidst the nations, there house desolate. They sealed their fate at Rome.
When Christ said, in Ma28, that He would be with them, and they would go out into all the world to baptize in the triune name, they understood what He meant. This is why they never baptized but in His name only, never in the triune name. This will happen during the millennium. The 12 tribes will finally, be a blessing to the nations with the apostles leading the way. That is another gospel, another future good news. Today, we have many organizations trying to do this now, and they aren’t Jews and niethr to the Jews go forth and do this, nor have they. It is future.
Surely, can we not see how mixing up these dispensations, taking a verse out of the Bible and applying it to something it was never intended, is causing all this disunity of today?
Abraham was the steward of the dispensation of promise. It has to do with the land, the people, the children of Jacob, a kingdom, and a city whose builder and maker is God.
Paul was the steward of the dispensation of the mystery. And we don’t find any mention of the land, or the city. No mention of the King, nor of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. No teachings on the soon return of the Lord. No teachings of the coming of the Lord at all. Not one. In fact, no OT teachings are to be found. No, Paul teaches the church which is His body, with a home and citizenship in heaven, blessed in Christ, in heavenly places, not on the earth, and not in Abraham.
The apostles were chosen for a special work. there was a man who wanted to be chosen, and guess what?
People fight to say there is only one good news, and that good news applies to every one equally. Well, that isn’t what we read in the Bible.
This is the basics of what an ultra dispensationalists like myself believes the Bible says. We believe God spake in sundry times and diverse ways. Wherefore, although all Scripture is God-Breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, not all Scripture from all time to all people applies directedly to me as it did and will to some of God's other children:
2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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