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Topic: Who was Melchizedek
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oneyearandcounting
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Yes AMH. I believe from the scripture that we have that he was Christ. If I am wrong then I am the one to say sorry.
God bless
greg
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Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.
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AMH
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HisGrace,
Very well.
oneyearandcounting,
Yes, a very interesting man. I take it that you consider him to be Christ incarnate. If I am wrong I apologize now.
Melchizedek brought the bread and the wine. Is this also Christ incarnate?
AMH
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Melchizedek is about giving!!!!!!!!
There is such a beautiful picture in this story.
The King of Sodom - The King of burning, had souls that were his subjects. Those souls had been taken captive by other kings in the earth who were waring with each other and they took the souls and their goods. But among them they took Lot and his house and his goods.
Abram took some men and went to get his brother that was lost out in the world taken captive by the kings of the earth and Abram found them and brought back his brother and his brother's family and all their goods and also Abram brought back the souls that werre subjects of the King of Burning... that is the King of Sodom.
When Melchizedek appeared and brought wine and bread and blessed Abram; Abram gave to him tithe - 10 percent off the top of all he had brought back souls and goods and some of those souls that Abram gave to Melchizedek were souls that belonged to the King of burning... that is the king of Sodom... and now they had become the possession of the King of Righteousness... the King of Peace.
Not only that, but Abram got to use the goods that belonged to the King of burning for himself and his men while he was out gathering the spoils that the kings of the earth had taken captive, and Abram only kept what he had used the rest was returned to the King od burning after the tithe was given to Melchizedek.
What did Abram give of his own personal possession? His living sacrifice... his time and his effort his attention from his own life - his living self... to go out and get what was taken captive by the waring kings of the earth.
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oneyearandcounting
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Yeah I hate discussing things when I'm wrong also.
We can go back to Melchesidek. He is rather interesting I feel. I mean one of a handful of times where God is here in the flesh throughout the Bible.
God bless
greg
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Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.
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HisGrace
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This thread is about Mel----- (tired of trying figure out how to spell his name, lol), and I guess we are getting off topic. I'd rather not discuss giving further on this thread
Giving is another subject that has been really beat into the ground, but if you want to discuss it further you could always open up another thread.
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AMH
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HisGrace,
The Bible bids us give as our Savior gave. When did Jesus ever give blindly?
AMH
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HisGrace
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Telling people it is a sin to give is a powerful ploy of the devil. If he can get people to focus on that portion of TV ministries, wich I find to be a very small portion because I watch many of these programmes, he is laughing.
Many who go on and on about these ministries never watch them, they just read Pastor WWW. instead to get their information, which I find is always very biased.
Remember Luke 6:38
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AMH
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The collecting of the tribute money is not scriptural, but it is legal.
The easiest way to conquer a law abiding people is through the changing of the law. (Notice the term “easiest”. It is never “easy” to conquer a law abiding people. But of the few ways that it is possible, the “easiest” of these is through law.)
AMH
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I believe that the fact that Abram gave Tithe to Melchizedek before there was a Levitical Law calling for Tithe is supposed to show us something about the tithing of the church, who is also as Abram was... not under Law.
As Christians we realize that we are not under the Levitical law anymore, but in the new love covenant, generous giving is part of good works.
{Yes,I realize that good works won't get us into heaven unless we are born again}
Luke 6:38
Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
~~The following scripture doesn't say that money itself is wrong, but rather not to be prideful in our possessions. The more we have, the more we can share with others.
1 Timothy 6:17
Tell those who are rich in this world not to be proud and not to trust in their money, which will soon be gone. But their trust should be in the living God,
Tell them to use their money to do good. They should be rich in good works and should give generously to those in need, always being ready to share with others whatever God has given them.
By doing this they will be storing up their treasure as a good foundation for the future so that they may take hold of real life.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Tithes were not offerings - offerings are given out of obedience, generosity and faith; they are given over and above the legal tithe that was required under the Levitical Law. A tithe was a specific amount that was to be UNDER LAW set aside to support the Priesthood. Neither tithe or offerings are the same things as rendering unto caesar that which is caesar's.
The Law actually called for three tithes:
for the use of the temple, for the Levites, and for the poor among them.
I believe that the fact that Abram gave Tithe to Melchizedek before there was a Levitical Law calling for Tithe is supposed to show us something about the tithing of the church, who is also as Abram was... not under Law.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by oneyearandcounting:
You have to read the whole thing not just open a concordance and see the bold print and say " Oh Jesus said that, I'll post it."
Oops - my bad.
~There are many scriptures showing the importance of generously giving out of faith.
Luke 21:1-3 While Jesus was in the Temple, he watched the rich people putting their gifts into the collection box. Then a poor widow came by and dropped in two pennies.
"I assure you," he said, "this poor widow has given more than all the rest of them. For they have given a tiny part of their surplus, but she, poor as she is, has given everything she has."
Matthew 22:21 "Well, then," he said, "give to Caesar what belongs to him. But everything that belongs to God must be given to God."
~Looks like Jesus felt that a portion of our income still belongs to God.
I Tim. 6:18 Tell them to use their money to do good. They should be rich in good works and should give generously to those in need, always being ready to share with others whatever God has given them.
Luke 11:29 So the believers in Antioch decided to send relief to the brothers and sisters in Judea, everyone giving as much as they could.
~I think the following scripture best sums up the importance of giving abundantly with a cheerful heart, and the rewards we will receive for giving -
2 Cor.9:7-11 You must each make up your own mind as to how much you should give. Don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. For God loves the person who gives cheerfully. And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others. As the Scriptures say,
"Godly people give generously to the poor.
Their good deeds will never be forgotten."
For God is the one who gives seed to the farmer and then bread to eat. In the same way, he will give you many opportunities to do good, and he will produce a great harvest of generosity in you.
Yes, you will be enriched so that you can give even more generously. And when we take your gifts to those who need them, they will break out in thanksgiving to God.
Here's another great one -
2 Cor. 8:7 Since you excel in so many ways- you have so much faith; such gifted speakers, such knowledge and such enthusiasm -now I want you to excel also in this gracious ministry of giving. I am not saying you must do it, even though the other churches are eager to do it. This is one way to prove your love is real.
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oneyearandcounting
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Hisgrace
Could you please stop using things our Lord Jesus said out of context. ![[Frown]](frown.gif) Jesus never ever said that he fasts twice a week and tithes everything he has. You need to take a few minutes reread that section of Luke, tell you what I'll even put it here for you. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Luke 18: 9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
As you can see Christ did say it, but he was talking about another. A Pharisee who was trying to put himself up on a pedastill. Make himself feel better by pointing out anothers flaws.
You have to read the whole thing not just open a concordance and see the bold print and say " Oh Jesus said that, I'll post it."
AS far as I can see Jesus himself never tithed and certainly not in the verse you are using I am not trying to make this an arguement about tithing so please don't post saying I am. I am only trying to show a fellow Christian that they used a verse way out of context.
God bless
greg
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Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by AMH:
HisGrace,Where was the cross located, (geographical location)?
The Bible says that he was crucified on the hill of Golgotha. The exact location isn't certain. Many believe that it was on the outside walls of Jerusalem.
Hebrews 13: 12 So also Jesus suffered and died outside the city gates in order to make his people holy by shedding his own blood.
quote:
Is the tribute money being paid today legal?
I notice that some devout Jews don’t collect tithes in the synagogues. What do they know? Something about 70 A.D. I would say.
And those good ‘ole boys doing the collecting, those spiritual Levites. They require hard currency, not spiritual. AMH
Jesus tithed, so looks like we should also tithe.
He said - Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I possess.
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yahsway
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Very True AMH, and may I add that the "tithe" was to be eaten. Shalom
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AMH
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Is this possible-
Since most do not have even a cursory understanding of the tithe.
Is it possible that they do not understand the meaning of the tithe?
And furthermore, is it possible that they do not understand huge chunks in the rest of the scripture?
Leviticus 25:4-5 says that on the 7th year there was rest, (this would include tribute rest). You hear a lot about the Sabbath, how about this Sabbath. Will today’s collectors of tribute let us slide on this Sabbath? (I thought that we were not under the law? Then how come we are expected to pay tribute all seven without any rest under grace. At least those under law received some time for rest.)
AMH
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yahsway
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Good one AMH, those good ole boys makes me think of Creflo $$$$$$! Sorry, couldnt help myself. Shalom
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AMH
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HisGrace,
Where was the cross located, (geographical location)?
I think that if you check the later chapters of Hebrews, (13), you will find that it was without the camp. The gate keepers kick Him out.
By the law, the prophets and the Apostles-
Is the tribute money being paid today legal?
I notice that some devout Jews don’t collect tithes in the synagogues. What do they know? Something about 70 A.D. I would say.
And those good ‘ole boys doing the collecting, those spiritual Levites. They require hard currency, not spiritual.
AMH
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Aaron
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This is good stuff!
Question: could Mel simply be a minister of the Son/Father covenant and not necessarily Christ Himself?*
* = This is what I believe.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Aaron
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yahsway
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AMH, Abraham was not Jewish either. Yeshua identifies with all that would come by Faith. Shalom
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
And this would make him Who?
Aaron!!!!!!his is not a hint. This is a probe for thought. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I do believe that the Word the was with God in the beginning and was God, came to Abram as Melchizedek, he is as T7 has said the only one that meets the qualifications; HE is the only one that can wear those names - King of Righteousness; King of Peace; He is the only one without beginning of days or end of life, without without decent, without mother nor father.
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HisGrace
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I thought Jesus identified with all mankind. It happened on the cross.
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AMH
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Something that Melchizedek was not-Jewish
Face the fact that Abraham paid tribute to what can easily be describe as Gentile.
Jesus identifies with the people outside the gate not inside.
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HisGrace
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Great explanation - thanks David. ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
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KnowHim
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I. The Historical Argument: Melchizedek and Abraham (7:1-10)
First, the writer identifies Melchizedek as a type of Christ (vv. 3, 15). He was both king and priest, and so is Jesus. No priest in Aaron’s line ever sat on a throne. In fact, the Aaronic priests did not sit down at all (spiritually speaking), for their work was never done. There were no chairs in the tabernacle or temple! See Heb. 10:11-14. Furthermore, Melchizedek was king of Salem, which means “peace”; and Jesus is our King of Peace, our Prince of Peace. The name “Melchizedek” means “king of righteousness,” a name which certainly applies to Christ, God’s Righteous King. So, in his name and his offices, Melchizedek is a beautiful likeness of Christ.
But Melchizedek also resembles Christ in his origin. The Bible contains no record of his birth or his death. Of course, this does not mean that Melchizedek had no parents or that he never died. It simply means that the OT record is silent on these matters. Thus Melchizedek, like Christ, is “without beginning of days or end of life”—his priesthood is eternal. His priesthood did not depend on earthly successors, while the Aaronic priests had to defend their office by family records (see Neh. 7:64). Every high priest that descended from Aaron died, but Christ, like Melchizedek, holds His priesthood permanently (vv. 8, 16, 24-25).
Having identified Christ with the order of Melchizedek, the writer now explains that Melchizedek is superior to Aaron, for Aaron paid tithes to Melchizedek while yet unborn in the loins of Abraham. And when Melchizedek blessed Abraham, he was blessing the house of Levi as well; and certainly “the lesser is blessed by the better” (v. 7). On earth, in the Jewish temple, the priests received tithes; but in Genesis 14, the priests (in Abraham’s loins) gave tithes to Melchizedek. This event clearly showed the inferiority of the Aaronic priesthood.
From: Wiersbe's Expository Outlines
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BORN AGAIN
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Good retort, thunderz7 to brother Aaron. I agree with you, who else has the qualifications?
Also this is written in the New Testament, and htis most likely refers to this very Melchizedek incident:
John 8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it and was glad.
Yahshua was Melchizedek, acting as the Son of God before the Son of God came down to earth in 4 B.C. to be the Son of man, starting in Bethlehem of Judah. That was another assignment for the Son of God.
May the LORD God of Israel bless all of us on this CBBS, I am BORN AGAIN by the ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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Thunderz7
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quote:
I don't think he was Christ himself, if that is what you are hinting at.
Aaron
![[Cool]](cool.gif) I think it probably was Yashua,
if that's what you are hinting at ![[Wink]](wink.gif) .
No one else meets the qualifications.
T7
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Aaron
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
quote:
Melchizedek was a priest according to the covenant God (the Father) swore to God (the Son) before time began.
And this would make him Who?
I don't think he was Christ himself, if that is what you are hinting at.
Aaron
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BORN AGAIN
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tsaddiyq {tsad-deek'}
Strong's 6663
1) just, lawful, righteous
a) just, righteous (in government)
b) just, right (in one's cause)
c) just, righteous (in conduct and character)
d) righteous (as justified and vindicated by God)
e) right, correct, lawful
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
[QB] HisGrace wrote that "Melchizedek" means "king of justice", but I thought it meant "king of righteousness"?[/b]
My Bible says the 'king of justice'.
Jeremiah 23:5
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
~Further re Melchizedek's status of honour -
Gen 14:17-22 After Abram returned from defeating Kedorlaomer and the kings allied with him, the king of Sodom came out to meet him in the Valley of Shaveh (that is, the King's Valley).
Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth.
And blessed be God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand." Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
~I agree with your post Aaron. What I get from studying this man, is that Melchizedek was a symbol of the old covenant, and he had the most respected position of priesthood in his day. Jesus is our new covenant and our new High Priest.
quote:
From HFHS It is not said that his parentage was not known or recorded, but that he was without Father OR Mother.... without decent! How is this?"
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
It simply means that there was no record of his geneology. Like the Son of God he stood alone.
Mark 9:12
Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?
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BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace wrote that "Melchizedek" means "king of justice", but I thought it meant "king of righteousness"?
One probable reason why the king of Sodom wanted the people over the goods is because in those days without regular police and army forces, it was very dangerous to "not have enough people to defend oneself".
In those early days, it was very dangerous to travel in a too-small group. When two groups saw each other coming in the distance, "military" preparations were always necessary in case the coming group were raiders or mean-spirited, or whatever. They didn't "play" in those days.
So that is probably one immediate reason why the king of Sodom wanted his people back first.
As to what Abram tithed (he was still Abram and not yet Abraham), he probably also tithed some of the people (women and children, especially) as slaves.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
Melchizedek was a priest according to the covenant God (the Father) swore to God (the Son) before time began.
And this would make him Who?
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Aaron
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Priests do the work of their god. A god makes his plans known to men through men who swear fealty to the god. That is to say they are ministers of their god's covenant with men. Without a covenant there can be no priests (like there are no bus drivers without busses).
Therefore: God must have communicated His covenant to Melchizedek, otherwise he would not have been a priest. This covenant was not the same covenant communicated to Abraham...that covenant came after Melchizedek. Melchizedek was a priest according to the covenant God (the Father) swore to God (the Son) before time began. In a sense Mel was a priest of the covenant of Christ (a royal priesthood) and I believe he was a "son of God" mentioned in Gen 6 although I do not believe he took part in the iniquity recorded.
Not perfect (it's difficult to explain things from the eternal and temporal perspective) but it will do.
Thoughts?
Aaron
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TEXASGRANDMA
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It looks like Abraham gave a tithe of all the goods before he gave the rest of the goods to the King of Sodom. Like we tithe on our income before we pay out our bills. God should get the first fruits and not what is left over at the end of the month.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Yes, Betty. The Kind of Sodom was willing to part with their goods, to give them to Abram as reward for bringing back what had been taken from him. But he wanted the people.
AAbram said you can have the people and the goods. Abraham wanted only what they used and some provision for those that went with him to gather the spoil (which included people)and bring it back.
What did Abram give tithe of?
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I find it interesting that he wanted his people back over the money and the goods. I have become so cynical that I often wonder if our government leaders would sale us out for profit.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Melchizedek was a priest of God before the priesthood of Aaron or Levi was established; before the covenant "Old Covenant" was given to the Israelites.
It is not said that his parentage was not known or recorded, but that he was without Father OR Mother.... without decent! How is this?
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
The Bible says that even Levi though Abraham paid Him tithes before Levi was even a thought in the loins of Jacob.
Hebrews 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
I always thought that it was interesting because Abraham paid tithes of all that he had brought back including the things that would be returned to the King of Sodom.
Note also in this story of Melchizedek what it was that the King of Sodom wanted back...
It is a very interesting story indeed!
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HisGrace
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Melchizedek's name was mentioned in another post and it prompted me to study him further. His life is detailed in Hebrews 7, but I will just quote a couple of portions from that chapter.
Like Jesus, Melchizedek had no one like him before and no one after him. He represents the priesthood under the old covenant, but Jesus is our new High Priest under the new covenant.
Hebrews 7:1-7
This Melchizedek was king of the city of Salem and also a priest of God Most High. When Abraham was returning home after winning a great battle against many kings, Melchizedek met him and blessed him.
Then Abraham took a tenth of all he had won in the battle and gave it to Melchizedek. His name means "king of justice." He is also "king of peace" because Salem means "peace."
There is no record of his father or mother or any of his ancestors--no beginning or end to his life. He remains a priest forever, resembling the Son of God.
Consider then how great this Melchizedek was. Even Abraham, the great patriarch of Israel, recognized how great Melchizedek was by giving him a tenth of what he had taken in battle.
Now the priests, who are descendants of Levi, are commanded in the law of Moses to collect a tithe from all the people, even though they are their own relatives.[a] 6But Melchizedek, who was not even related to Levi, collected a tenth from Abraham. And Melchizedek placed a blessing upon Abraham, the one who had already received the promises of God.
And without question, the person who has the power to bless is always greater than the person who is blessed.
Vrs's.15-19 The change in God's law is even more evident from the fact that a different priest, who is like Melchizedek, has now come. He became a priest, not by meeting the old requirement of belonging to the tribe of Levi, but by the power of a life that cannot be destroyed. And the psalmist pointed this out when he said of Christ,
"You are a priest forever
in the line of Melchizedek."
Yes, the old requirement about the priesthood was set aside because it was weak and useless. For the law made nothing perfect, and now a better hope has taken its place. And that is how we draw near to God.
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