|
Author
|
Topic: Cardinals Differ on Who Will Succeed Pope
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
AMEN Brother Greg! I read this in another thread and it's so Right On!
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
Good post Greg. You make a lot of good points.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449
|
posted
I believe that most people continue to defend the RCC simply because of one huge reason. Over 1 billion served (followers) and counting.
If you go against the RCC and their teachings in a way you are condemning or all those people. So now the bigger picture becomes, if the Catholic Church is wrong in their doctrine (which I believe it is) and the Muslims are wrong, Mormons and so on and so on, that’s a lot of people. Billions of people by Christ’s own words will be sent to Hell. Our Lord Jesus said “Broad is the path but narrow is the gate.” This statement as sad as it is eliminates certain religious groups.
We also as Christians know that certain of our own (by name only) will be excluded from Heaven. The Bible says that on the Day of Judgment many will stand before Christ and say “Lord, Lord We did this and this in your name.” The Lords reply “Depart from me I never knew you.” And there will be a weeping and gnashing of teeth. Why didn’t Jesus know them? Could it be he didn’t know them because they never truly knew him? If you allow a man to lead you astray come Judgment time it won’t be an excuse. As followers of Christ we are told no to trust a man only trust the Word. These people who Christ never knew did just that, they trusted in man. Man leads man astray and the one who pays for this is God. Being a just God he has to send them to Hell. How much will the hurt our Father, who would wish that known should parish? And better yet how happy would Satan be.
Satan has done a wonderful job of making man believe that Heaven is a place of easy access. All religions except for the one that is truth a person earns their way to Heaven. The RCC is no different. Is it safe for a Christian to say “Oh its ok, they (the RCC) still believe that Christ is who he is?” No it’s not ok the only way to Heaven is thru Christ and your love of God. Where is the love if you follow a false doctrine? You don’t know the Father anymore than a Muslim or an unsaved person. If all you needed was to know Christ and any doctrine would do then Mormons would be Heaven bound also. They aren’t’ because they have a false doctrine.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son that whoever believed in him would have everlasting life. The word believed is huge here. In the Greek (Strong Concordance #4100) it means commit, adhere to, entrust in, rely on. In order to fit this bill you have to give your life over to Christ. You can’t work your way into Heaven If a Roman Catholic truly believed in Christ in the true sense of the word there wouldn’t be any need of going to confession.
Just saying a prayer and walking around saying I believe in Jesus isn’t the same as truly believing. You haven’t put any trust in Christ. In fact using the word believes the way we use it today, even the demons believe. Does this mean they get a ticket to Heaven I don’t believe so.
God bless,
Greg
--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.
Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
"If God's Holy Spirit were guiding the Roman Catholic Church, then their theology would substantiate God's Word, instead of contradict."
AMEN !!!!
Why do professing bible believers continue to defend the RCC? I don't get it!
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
If God's Holy Spirit were guiding the Roman Catholic Church, then their theology would substantiate God's Word, instead of contradict.
AMEN To That!!!
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
|
posted
If God's Holy Spirit were the most active agent in the selection of the next pope, then there would not be the tremendous political manuvering surrounding the enclave. John Paul II would have been selected on the first ballot, rather than as a political compromise, when both sides were deadlocked.
If God's Holy Spirit were guiding the Roman Catholic Church, then their theology would substantiate God's Word, instead of contradict.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
saintbygrace
Advanced Member
Member # 4401
|
posted
Read the BIBLE
What the pope, cardinals, and catholic "church" teach is contrary to God's Word, hence not Christian.
They don't respect or accept my beliefs, why should I accept theirs?
This "lets just all get along" attitude comes right from satan.
--------------------
John 18:38
Pilate *said to Him, "What is truth?"
Posts: 112 | From: ball of God-cursed dirt | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Gramajo320
unregistered
|
posted
Saintbygrace,
You do not know exactly what the Holy Spirit can and will do regarding the cardinal's prayers for the Holy Spirit leading them and showing them the way as to who to choose to be the next pope. That's only your own thoughts!
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
IP: Logged |
|
|
saintbygrace
Advanced Member
Member # 4401
|
posted
The Holy Spirit IS NOT going to be involved in the picking of the next pope.
The office of the pope goes against the teachings of the Bible, as does the teachings and doctrines of the catholic "church"
These are MAN made institutions following man made traditions.
MEN ALONE are going to pick the next pope
--------------------
John 18:38
Pilate *said to Him, "What is truth?"
Posts: 112 | From: ball of God-cursed dirt | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
Personally, I think the equation looks exactly as it is supposed to look.
Here is an interesting article:
Next pope: 'We are going to be surprised,' says Allen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Paula Doyle
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as the next pope is concerned, expect the unexpected.
That's the message National Catholic Reporter Vatican correspondent John Allen, Jr. stressed in his 2005 Religious Education Congress Feb. 20 workshop, "Four papacies, four futures for the church" highlighting four differing points of view among the 118 Cardinals under age 80 who will elect the future pope.
Although Pope John Paul II has appointed all but three of the cardinals who will elect his successor, Allen said it is a misconception that the next pope will be similar to the current one.
"It doesn't work like that," declared Allen before a rapt audience of hundreds. "Colleges of cardinals appointed entirely by one pope do not elect a reproduction of that pope as his successor."
This is borne out historically. For example, noted Allen, while Pope Pius XII appointed all but two of the 51 cardinals who elected his successor, the next pope elected was the "strikingly" different Pope John XXIII.
"We are going to be surprised by the next pope," said Allen. He remarked that one of the ways cardinals approach the election of the next pope is thinking about both the strengths and the weaknesses of the former pontificate. They'll look at "unfinished business" and consider how they can elect someone who can address pressing concerns. Allen said a majority of cardinals that he has interviewed identify the top three challenges facing the church as: internal church governance, growing secularization and the relationship between Christianity and Islam.
While Pope John Paul II is generally acknowledged as a magnificent evangelist and wonderful source of moral authority, some cardinals feel he has been unable to get his hands around the internal administration of the church "in a fully satisfactory way," Allen explained.
As far as affecting culture in the highly secularized, post-Christian western world, Pope John Paul II's record is viewed as "mixed," in contrast to his many accomplishments championing human rights in Eastern Europe and developing nations. Finally, there is a great sense among church prelates that the next pope is going to have to engage Islam even more than in the past.
"In the post-9/11 world, there is a terrific acknowledgement inside the College of Cardinals that very little is going to be more decisive in terms of where the world goes in the future than whether or not Islam and the Christian west can figure out a kind of 'modus vivendi,'" Allen remarked. Both "tough love" (Hawk) and "harmonious coexistence" (Dove) approaches to the question of Islam exist within the Vatican, noted Allen.
Four futures
Allen identified four groups within the College of Cardinals based on their distinct points of view to current challenges facing the church. While the next pope will likely hail from one of these four parties, "no one party comes close to being a two-thirds majority" necessary to elect a pontiff, said the CNN Vatican analyst.
The first group within the College of Cardinals Allen identified represents the "Border Patrol." The core concern of cardinals in this group is the issue of maintaining Christian identity. Border Patrol cardinals --- including Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Edward Egan of New York, Cardinal Justin Rigali of Philadelphia and the Archbishop emeritus of Boston prelate, Cardinal Bernard Law --- fear cultural assimilation and would police religious/secular boundaries "with great vigilance."
The second group, Allen dubbed the "Reform Party." The main concern of cardinals within this party is moving forward with the reforms of Vatican II. They are interested in continuing liturgical reform, collegiality (giving more power to bishops' conferences), promoting the laity's role in the church and ecumenism. Allen named Cardinal Roger Mahony in this group along with Cardinal William Keeler of Baltimore, as well as Cardinal Karl Lehmann and Cardinal Walter Kasper, both of Germany. Allen estimates that the Reform Party and the Border Patrol each represent about 20-25 percent of the electorate.
The third and largest group, according to Allen, encompasses the "Social Justice" contingent, which considers issues outside the church --- such as globalization, economic justice, racial relations and the fight against AIDS --- to be of main concern. Members from this party seek to promote understanding across cultural and ethnic divisions. American Cardinal Ted McCarrick from Washington, D.C., reflects the thinking of this group as well as Cardinal Juan Sandoval from Mexico, Cardinal Claudio Hummes from Brazil, Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga from Honduras, and many other cardinals from developing nations.
The fourth and final group Allen named "Integralists." Members of this "cultural warrior" group want to see the church's teaching on such issues as abortion, gay marriage and stem cell research incorporated into civil law. Integralists would include Cardinal Alfonso Trujillo of Columbia who heads the Pontifical Council for the Family, Cardinal Juan Cipriani from Peru (one of the two Opus Dei cardinals in the world), and Cardinal Angelo Scola from Venice. Representatives in the American hierarchy would be Archbishop Ray Burke of St. Louis and Archbishop Charles Chaput in Denver.
Since no one group has the necessary majority to sway the vote, Allen believes it's plausible that members of different parties will form "alliances." It's conceivable, Allen explained, that members of the social justice and reform parties could align as well as representatives from the border patrol and integralists. "I don't think you're going to get a pure representative of any one of these four camps as your pope; inevitably, it's going to be a compromise," declared Allen.
According to Allen, it's unlikely that eligible members of the College of Cardinals will elect somebody presently working in Rome, such as Nigerian-born Cardinal Francis Arinze, prefect of the Congregation of Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. It will probably be a candidate outside of the Vatican who is acceptable to two or more groups.
"The story of the next election is being written right now," declared Allen. "You have an opportunity to be involved in this conversation." He urged Catholics to "engage" themselves by communicating with cardinals who will be electing the next pope.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Gramajo320
unregistered
|
posted
The cardinals will indeed be doing a lot of praying for only the Holy Spirit's leading and showing them who to choose for the next pope.
As for the name the next pope will go by that of course remains to be seen when he is chosen.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
IP: Logged |
|
|
yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
|
posted
Well, since he represents God on earth I do hope they follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. think He will go by the name of Peter? I think there has only been 2 since the papacy began that went by that name.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Gramajo320
unregistered
|
posted
When the cardinals go into the conclave they will be doing a lot of praying for only the Holy Spirit to lead them and to show them who should be the next pope.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
IP: Logged |
|
|
Ripp
unregistered
|
posted
Soft wrote:
quote:
Can anyone Discern what’s MISSING from the below equation?
Well, I'll take a shot hehe.
quote:
Roman Catholic Church and will likely seek out a leader with different qualities than John Paul's.
This is a very interesting sentence. Hmm, different qualities than John Paul...yikes. Could this be a prelude to what's coming? ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif)
quote:
they follow their conscience
This what you are talking about? Them missing the Spirit? I hope that by conscience they meant Spirit hehe. Who knows what goes on behind those doors. 
quote:
In simple terms, the new pope could be the kind of boss the cardinals want for themselves.
Hmm, another interesting quote.
quote:
Age may also be a factor. John Paul's papacy of 26 years has been one of the longest in church history, and the cardinals may back an older candidate as a "transitional pope" -- someone whose tenure may not be quite so long.
Hmmmmm. Hehehe.
Well, I gave it my best. This is going to be interesting to say the least. What amazing times!!
God bless. ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif) ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
IP: Logged |
|
|
Gramajo320
unregistered
|
posted
I just learned this morning when the cardinals go to the conclave they are going to be praying for the Holy Spirit to lead them as to who the next pope will be.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
IP: Logged |
|
|
TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
|
posted
We need to pray for the Catholic Church. Getting a new Pope is not like getting a new Pastor for a local Church. If you get the wrong Pastor only your local Church is affected, where as the Pope represents the whole Catholic community. This is not a reflection on the Catholic Church and in no way am I implying that they will get the wrong person. It is just that I have been a Church member several times when my Church was looking for a new Pastor. It can be very stressed and upsetting for all concerned.
The world will be looking at the Catholic Church. Hopefully God will guide them to get a person that will not only guide the Catholic Church in the way God wants but will bring glory and honor to the Lord, Himself.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
Can anyone Discern what’s MISSING from the below equation?
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-next-pope,0,636413,print.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines
Cardinals Differ on Who Will Succeed Pope
By RACHEL ZOLL
AP Religion Writer
April 1, 2005, 6:03 PM EST
Pope John Paul II has named nearly every cardinal who will elect his successor, but that does not mean the next pontiff will be just like him.
The world's cardinals hold diverse and often conflicting views about what are the most pressing issues for the Roman Catholic Church and will likely seek out a leader with different qualities than John Paul's.
"The cardinals, when they come in the conclave, they follow their conscience and they see what's useful for the church today," said Belgian Cardinal Godfried Danneels, in a recent interview with The Associated Press. "There is not that kind of nepotism in the church -- 'I appointed all the cardinals so there will be exactly my copy.' No. We are a bit more intelligent than that."
Among the cardinals mentioned as potential future popes are Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, a German who is the Vatican's doctrinal watchdog; Brazilian Cardinal Claudio Hummes; and Cardinal Oscar Andres Rodriguez Maradiaga of Honduras. Others also considered possible successors to John Paul include Cardinal Francis Arinze, a Vatican-based Nigerian; Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn of Austria and Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi of Italy.
The next pope will confront a range of challenges, including scientific advances that conflict with Catholic teaching; the decline of religious observance in Europe and North America; an explosion in church membership in the Third World; and a dwindling number of priests in the West.
He will be taking over at a time of sometimes deadly interfaith tensions, and during a period of enormous global unrest, as world leaders confront terrorism in ways the church does not always condone.
Yet, when the cardinals decide who among them can handle these issues, some of their concerns may seem mundane.
After a quarter-century of John Paul's strong personality and hands-on management style, some want Vatican officials to stay out of the day-to-day operations of dioceses. Others believe officials in Rome should stay deeply involved to crack down on dissent.
Some church leaders believe cardinals and bishops should have more say in church governance, while others think that power should remain mostly with the pope.
In simple terms, the new pope could be the kind of boss the cardinals want for themselves.
They also will look for a man with a strong command of English and Italian, to communicate with the world's Catholics and with church officials in charge of the day-to-day operations of the Vatican.
Age may also be a factor. John Paul's papacy of 26 years has been one of the longest in church history, and the cardinals may back an older candidate as a "transitional pope" -- someone whose tenure may not be quite so long.
"Most cardinals don't think a really long papacy will be a good idea," said James Hitchcock, a historian and church expert at Saint Louis University. "But with modern medicine if they elect a man who is 70, he could live until he was 95."
Geography also will influence the vote. John Paul was the first non-Italian pope in 455 years. Vatican observers disagree over whether there will be pressure in the conclave to return the papacy to an Italian, or whether they will want to send a signal to the burgeoning ranks of Catholics in the Third World by choosing an African or Latin American candidate.
"This is one of the real dividing lines they're going to have to consider," said David Gibson, a former Vatican Radio newsman and author of "The Coming Catholic Church."
"If they just go back to an elderly Italian, it will be a kind of let down from the intensity of this papacy. Or they may say, `Look, let's keep this interest going, we went behind the Iron Curtain last time, let's go to Latin America this time.'"
Although there are many unknowns going into a conclave, church experts agree on at least one thing: There is almost no chance the next pope will be an American. The cardinals will not want to give the impression that the church is in the hands of the world's lone superpower.
And Catholics clinging to a shred of hope that the church will make celibacy optional for priests or allow women to be ordained will probably be disappointed.
"You're not going to see a liberal in that sense. There really aren't liberals like that," Gibson said. "I think there's some room for discussion on celibacy. And that is simply what it would be: discussion."
Danneels noted another reason that the next pope will not be a carbon copy of John Paul: there is no one exactly like him in the College of Cardinals.
"My impression with the pope is he combines two qualities that you rarely find together in one person," Danneels said. "He's a leader. ... At the same time, he's a very warm person."
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
