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Topic: John Paul II Entrusts Young People to Mary for Sake of Peace
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Waterdog
Advanced Member
Member # 24
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Roman Catholic Catechism:
969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512
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Main Entry: me·di·a·trix
Pronunciation: -'A-triks
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin, feminine of mediator
Date: 15th century
: a woman who is a mediator
quote:
Originally posted by Catholicious:
To my understanding, the Church has not dogmatically defined the Blessed Virgin Mary as mediatrix so we have no obligation to adhere to that teaching, leaving room for various opinions.
Looks like you need to reread your catechism, Cat. ![[eek]](eek.gif)
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So let us go forth to Him outside the camp (Heb 13:11-14)
 
Posts: 374 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
http://www.justforcatholics.org/a134.htm
Every Catholic (or former Catholic) knows that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different than asking a fellow believer for prayer.
Suppose a Christian brother comes and kneels before you, imploring you with great devotion to pray for him. Would you allow him? What would you think if he calls you his advocate, his hope and refuge? What if he thank you for the many graces you conferred on him and for delivering him from hell? Suppose he tells you that he confines his salvation to your care and pleads with you to stay with him until you see him safe in heaven?
Would you call that “asking a fellow Christian for prayer”? Of course not! That kind of prayer and confidence should be directed to the Lord Jesus Christ. And yet that is the kind of prayer that Catholics offer to Mary and the saints. Below is an example of a prayer by St Alphonsus showing that Catholic practice goes way beyond asking a fellow believer for prayer.
An example of a Catholic prayer to Mary. As you read it, ask yourself whether this sounds like asking another Christian to pray for you.
Prayer of Confidence in Mary
by St Alphonsus.
Most holy, immaculate Virgin and my Mother Mary! To you who are the Mother of my Lord, the Queen of the world, the Advocate, the Hope, and the Refuge of sinners, I have recourse today, I who am the most miserable of all.
I render you my most humble homage, O great Queen, and I thank you for all the graces you have conferred on me until now, especially for having delivered me from hell, which I have so often deserved.
I love you, O most amiable Lady; and for the love which I bear you, I promise to serve you always and to do all in my power to make others love you also. I place in you all my hopes; I confide my salvation to your care.
Accept me for your servant and receive me under your mantle, O Mother of Mercy. And since you are so powerful with God, deliver me from all temptations; or rather, obtain to me the strength to triumph over them until death.
Of you I ask a perfect love for Jesus Christ. Through you I hope to die a good death. O my Mother, by the love which you bear to God, I beseech you to help me at all times, but especially at the last moment of my life.
Leave me not, I beseech you, until you see me safe in heaven, blessing you and singing your mercies for all eternity. Amen.
So I hope. So may it be.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Catholicious
Advanced Member
Member # 726
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
47. The RC teaches: Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions. (Catechisms 968-970, 2677).
The Bible teaches: Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions. I Timothy 2:5, John 14:13&14, I Peter 5:7.
Main Entry: me·di·a·trix
Pronunciation: -'A-triks
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin, feminine of mediator
Date: 15th century
: a woman who is a mediator
caretaker,
To my understanding, the Church has not dogmatically defined the Blessed Virgin Mary as mediatrix so we have no obligation to adhere to that teaching, leaving room for various opinions. I however do not see a problem with that because whenever we "pray" [ask] to Mary it always goes to her Son, JESUS CHRIST our Lord and Savior, EVEN FOR US CATHOLICS!
If you think of it in computer/networking terminology, the saints are the individual nodes and JESUS CHRIST is the one router they are all connected to, everything must go through Him.
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Acts 20:29-30 (NAB)
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock.
30 And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.
1 Peter 3:15-16 (RSV)
15 but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
16 and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
Matthew 5:11 (KJV)
5 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Peace and God Bless!
Catholicious
Posts: 188 | From: Midwest USA | Registered: Dec 2002
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JefffreyLloyd
Advanced Member
Member # 1151
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kindgo:
What does the Bible say about praying to the dead?
Sometimes Fundamentalists object to asking our fellow Christians in heaven to pray for us by declaring that God has forbidden contact with the dead in passages such as Deuteronomy 18:10–11. In fact, he has not, because he at times has given it—for example, when he had Moses and Elijah appear with Christ to the disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt. 17:3). What God has forbidden is necromantic practice of conjuring up spirits.
quote:
"There shall not be found among you any one who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, any one who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer. . . . For these nations, which you are about to dispossess, give heed to soothsayers and to diviners; but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you so to do. The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren—him you shall heed" (Deut. 18:10–15).
God thus indicates that one is not to conjure the dead for purposes of gaining information; one is to look to God’s prophets instead. Thus one is not to hold a seance. But anyone with an ounce of common sense can discern the vast qualitative difference between holding a seance to have the dead speak through you and a son humbly saying at his mother’s grave, "Mom, please pray to Jesus for me; I’m having a real problem right now." The difference between the two is the difference between night and day. One is an occult practice bent on getting secret information; the other is a humble request for a loved one to pray to God on one’s behalf.
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Vivat Jesus!
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, worlds without end. Amen.
Posts: 122 | From: Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
http://www.justforcatholics.org/a64.htm
The humble Jewish woman has the unique privilege that no other woman can have. Mary was chosen of God to be the mother of the Lord when He became man. Yet we understand that Mary is not the saviour herself. Indeed she needed the Lord to save her, like every other human being since Adam and to the end of the world. She herself acknowledges God as "my saviour" (Luke 1:47).
Every Christian should consider Mary with respect. She is forever to be called blessed. Yet, I think it is a sign of disrespect when people expect from her things that she cannot give.
Why would people pray to her, when the Bible clearly teaches us that we should pray to God and that God alone knows our hearts (1 Kings 8:39)? Why would people ask grace from Mary, when the Bible teaches us that all grace comes from God (1 Peter 5:10)? Why should people call her "our life" and "our hope", when the Bible teaches us that the Lord is our life and hope (Colossians 3:4; 1 Timothy 1:1)? Why would people make her a mediator, when the Bible says that there is one mediator, Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5)? And why should people trust even the hour of their death wholly to her care? Isn't the Good Shepherd of the sheep willing to keep His own and bring them safely to glory (John 10:27,28)?
Sadly, in practice many Catholics worship Mary because they pray to her, trust in her and attribute to her titles and honours which belong to God alone. May God grant them repentance. Rather than looking unto a creature, we should follow Mary in her godly example and apply to the Lord for salvation and all spiritual blessings.
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Roman Catholic Cathecism:
969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512
Catholic Prayer:
Virgin, most holy, Mother of the Word Incarnate, Treasurer of graces, and Refuge of sinners, I fly top your motherly affection with lively faith, and I beg of you the grace ever to do the will of God.
Into your most holy hands I commit the keeping of my heart, asking you for health of soul and body, in the certain hope that you, my most loving Mother, will hear my prayer.
Into the bosom of your tender mercy, this day, every day of my life, and at the hour of my death, I commend my soul and body.
To you I entrust all my hopes and consolations, all my trials and miseries, my life and the end of my life, that all my actions may be ordered and disposed according to your will and that of your Divine Son. Amen.
47. The RC teaches: Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions. (Catechisms 968-970, 2677).
The Bible teaches: Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions. I Timothy 2:5, John 14:13&14, I Peter 5:7.
Main Entry: me·di·a·trix
Pronunciation: -'A-triks
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin, feminine of mediator
Date: 15th century
: a woman who is a mediator
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Catholicious
Advanced Member
Member # 726
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kindgo:
What does the Bible say about praying to the dead?
1 Timothy 2:5 tells us that Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and man.
A person who prays to the dead is seeking to find another mediator, which opens that individual to deception.
God forbids calling upon the dead in Deuteronomy 18:9-11.
![[Bang Head]](graemlins/BangHead.gif)
Kindgo,
Don't act like you do not know the traditional Christian perspective on this topic. I have gone over the Catholic view numerous times and it is no different from you asking a holy friend "saint" to pray for you. Are you somehow removing our ONE mediator JESUS CHRIST? NO! Protestants have changed what the word "pray" means, maybe in part so they could accuse us of idol worship, necromancy, what have you. The traditional Christian understanding of the word "pray" is "to ask" where Protestants use it to mean "to worship". THIS IS NOT WHAT CATHOLICS MEAN ... When I pray, I pray to our Lord JESUS CHRIST and if I am in dire need I will sometimes ask for the intercession of the some of the saints as follows Blessed Virgin Mary pray for me, Ss. Peter & Paul and all the apostles pray for me.
Matthew 18:20
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
The saints are NOT dead, they are alive in CHRIST, they are more alive than we are. So you believe that when you die it is complete darkness, a nothingless void until the Second Coming of CHRIST???
Catholics believe much the opposite, that when we die in CHRIST we will go right to heaven after we have been santified, therefore those who pass away in CHRIST are not dead.
Revelation 21:27 (RSV)
27 But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practices abomination or falsehood, but
only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.
John 11:25-26
25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die."
1 Thessalonians 4:13-14
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
Sorry that you continue to misunderstand ... approximately 3/4 of all Christians in the world know that praying to saints is completely Biblical and not prohibited.
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Acts 20:29-30 (NAB)
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock.
30 And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.
1 Peter 3:15-16 (RSV)
15 but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
16 and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
Matthew 5:11 (KJV)
5 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Peace and God Bless!
Catholicious
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Kindgo
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Member # 2
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posted
What does the Bible say about praying to the dead?
1 Timothy 2:5 tells us that Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and man.
A person who prays to the dead is seeking to find another mediator, which opens that individual to deception.
God forbids calling upon the dead in Deuteronomy 18:9-11.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Kindgo
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Member # 2
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posted
Like I said it's "Idol Worship".
Jesus is the only way!
Mary was a blessed women, then she went on to have other children, and die. She is dead, it is a sin to worship her.
I posted this because I think it is news, not because I wanted to debate the issue, as I already know it's idol worship.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
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Catholicious
Advanced Member
Member # 726
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by art:
Catholicious
What Kindgo posted is sad but true. The truth has a way of irritating those caught up in a lie. No arguing please!
Oh how the "mere Christians" miss out on the fullness of Christianity, championed by Martin Luther, author of Church reform gone wrong.
True but so do blatent lies. Your "traditions are from men", the truth hurts and that is no foundation upon which to build your Christian faith. NO ARGUING PLEASE.
"It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of our Lord and still a virgin."
-- Martin Luther, Martin Luther's Works, vol 11
"To go deep into history, is to cease to be Protestant."
-- John Henry Cardinal Newman
"There are not 100 people who hate the Catholic Church; But there are millions who hate what they believe the Catholic Church to be."
-- Archbishop Fulton Sheen
The truth is that Martin Luther had a profound respect and devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary, something that was somehow stripped away with time in protestantism.
Doesn't this fact make you wonder or make you want to research the issue more intensely?
Does it not disturb you that the early Christians professed Christian ideas that are truly Catholic? Take a look at St. Ignatius and St. Polycarp for example, they learned the faith DIRECTLY from St. John the Evangelist, the Apostle JESUS loved. If anyone knew the faith of CHRIST outside the Apostles, it would be those disciples that learned DIRECTLY from the Apostles, right?
I am not here to argue with you "art", although I feel it is inevitable, I am here to expose you to the truth, it is only the work of the Holy Spirit that can change hearts.
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Acts 20:29-30 (NAB)
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock.
30 And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.
1 Peter 3:15-16 (RSV)
15 but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
16 and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
Matthew 5:11 (KJV)
5 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Peace and God Bless!
Catholicious
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art
unregistered
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posted
Catholicious
What Kindgo posted is sad but true. The truth has a way of irritating those caught up in a lie. No arguing please!
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Catholicious
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kindgo:
[QB] Idol Worship ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Come on man, grow up, why you always starting trouble Kindgo? ![[uhoh]](graemlins/uhoh2.gif) ![[fie]](graemlins/fie.gif) ![[mad2]](graemlins/mad2.gif)
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Acts 20:29-30 (NAB)
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock.
30 And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.
1 Peter 3:15-16 (RSV)
15 but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
16 and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
Matthew 5:11 (KJV)
5 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Peace and God Bless!
Catholicious
Posts: 188 | From: Midwest USA | Registered: Dec 2002
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Kindgo
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Member # 2
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posted
Idol Worship
quote:
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"With them, I also entrust myself once again to you and with confident affection I repeat to you: I am all yours!"
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Demonic idol worship. He should entrust himself to God.
James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Never are we told to submit to Mary, or any of the other saints who have passed on before us. Nor would it do any good if we did. They are not the author or finisher of our salvation, nor do they have power to answer our prayers, hear our prayers, or save us.
quote:
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VATICAN CITY, APRIL 11, 2003 (Zenit.org).- John Paul II entrusted the world's youth to the Blessed Virgin Mary during a festive gathering of 40,000 young people from Rome and neighboring dioceses.
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He entrusted the youth of the world to a demon posing as Mary. It would have been much better if he had entrusted them to God. No...it would have been right. His theology is wrong.
quote:
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He added: "O Mary, help them to respond to their vocation. Lead them to the knowledge of true love and bless their affections. Sustain them in the moment of suffering. Render them intrepid messengers of the greeting of Christ on the day of Easter: Peace be with you!
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Here he is praying to his god. More evidence of his idol worship. Praying to someone who can't even hear them is sad, but entrusting not only yourself, but the rest of the world to them...that is blasphemous. Mary was a mere mortal who was blessed of God. She is not deity, and neither does God want her to be honored in this way, or worshipped.
Isaiah 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
God will not share His glory with another.
Jesus Christ is the only way, the only truth, and the only life.
__________________
Thanks to Chrystal from RR ![[thumbsup]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
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Kindgo
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John Paul II Entrusts Young People to Mary for Sake of Peace
In Context of Celebration of World Youth Day 2003
Code: ZE03041106
Date: 2003-04-11
http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=34135
VATICAN CITY, APRIL 11, 2003 (Zenit.org).- John Paul II entrusted the world's youth to the Blessed Virgin Mary during a festive gathering of 40,000 young people from Rome and neighboring dioceses.
The Pope, who joked with the young on several occasions, gave each of them a rosary to implore God for peace. The meeting Thursday was part of the celebrations of this year's World Youth Day, which will end on Palm Sunday in dioceses around the world.
The young people, who congratulated the Holy Father for his close to 25-year pontificate, gave him three gifts in return.
Ugo Bentivegna, 25, of the Focolare Movement, gave him a pilgrim's staff, so that he will continue to travel and meet with young people worldwide.
Eloisa Baldacci, 25, of the St. Agnes Roman youth group, gave the Pope the plan for the John Paul II Youth Cultural Center being built in Rome for the Christian formation of young people.
Gabriele Mannucci, 27, of Rome's St. Thomas Aquinas parish, gave the Pope a dove, in gratitude for his service to peace.
Young Canadians, who took part in Toronto's World Youth Day last July, carried the WYD cross and an icon of Mary to the atrium of St. Peter's Basilica.
This Palm Sunday, during the papal Mass, the Canadians will hand the cross to their German contemporaries, who will carry it to their homeland. The next international World Youth Day is scheduled for Cologne in 2005.
The young people had to cope with the intermittent rain that fell in St. Peter's Square. Before and after their meeting with the Holy Father, they heard the testimonies and talks of Italian singers and artists.
"We are young!" the Pope said, interrupting his address to encourage his listeners to cope with the downpour.
During an Act of Entrustment of youth to Mary, which the Pope pronounced at the end of the meeting, he said that "the young people of this century, at the dawn of the new millennium, still live the torments deriving from sin, from hatred, from violence, from terrorism and from war."
He added: "O Mary, help them to respond to their vocation. Lead them to the knowledge of true love and bless their affections. Sustain them in the moment of suffering. Render them intrepid messengers of the greeting of Christ on the day of Easter: Peace be with you!
"With them, I also entrust myself once again to you and with confident affection I repeat to you: I am all yours!"
During his address, the Holy Father recalled the wartime years of his youth and then appealed to young people "to commit themselves to peace."
"At this difficult time of history, while terrorism and war threaten the harmony among men and religions," he said, "I wish to entrust you to Mary so that you will be promoters of the culture of peace, more necessary today than ever."
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
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