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Topic: Fallwell asked to apologize
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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posted
Women in Islam
Islam is very clear on the issue of women. Women are considered inferior to men in all aspects of life and are to be submissive to them to the extent that they become property (sura 004:034). The testimony of one Islamic man is equal to that of two woman. Wife beatings are permissible and in some cases required.
By Islamic law, a woman is considered a citizen of the country that her husband belongs, by virtue of marriage alone. This places them automatically under the laws of that country if they are there, even if only for a visit. The Betty Mahmoody story, immortalized in the film Not Without My Daughter is an expose of one woman's struggles with this culture when she and her daughter were held hostage from 1984-6 in Iran by her Iranian born husband after what was to be a two week vacation.
Coupled with this, the woman automatically loses all rights to her children under Islamic law. The father gets them by default under religious edict. Interestingly, the Hague Convention regarding abducted children does not include Islamic states as it interferes with religious governing laws.
In many Islamic nations, the practice of female circumcision is alive and well. The purpose of circumcision is to make sexual relations less pleasurable for the woman, as a means of promoting faithfulness to her husband. The Hadiths do not make this mandatory for women as they do for men but the optional practice is designed to preserve honor.
Mercy killings are another common occurrence in many Islamic countries. The position on this is that killing is a form of mercy as it is the only way to rectify the person. This includes the legal action of a family murdering one of their own if she is found to not have be a virgin on her wedding night.
Treatment of female prisoners is horrific once they are condemned to die. For example, according to an Irani religious decree, virgin women prisoners must as a rule be raped before their execution, "lest they go to Paradise". The night before execution, a Guard rapes the condemned woman so that she does not die a virgin. After her execution, the religious judge at the prison writes out a marriage certificate and sends it to the victim's family, along with a box of sweets. This was documented by Human Rights groups to have been common practice in Iran as recently as the 1990s.
A woman's salvation in Islamic thought is the same unknown good vs bad works formula as a mans, but the Qur'an is strangely silent on their rewards (if any) in Paradise (033:035). The Hadiths suggest rather strongly that women that are ungrateful to their husbands are hell bound. Additionally, out of 99 women, only one is said not to have that doomed fate. (Kanz al-`ummal, 22:10).
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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mouse
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Member # 514
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
Whether we like it or not, the Moslem God is the same God we pray to. There aren't two God's.
First, let me thank you for your post, you had a very good point that there are some terrorists who happen to be Islamic. It is not confined to one religion or culture.
Second, may I point out that yes, there are many false gods, but only one true and living God. Mohammed taught that Jesus Christ was just a teacher or prophet, not the Messiah. Any one who does not believe Jesus to be the Christ, the Son of God, does not worship the 'christian God of the Hebrew people.'
Thirdly yes, we all believe differently, and are inalienably entitled to our own opinion. That does not mean that what we believe is the truth. I can refuse to admit that there is a Paris, France, but that does not change the fact that there is. Likewise, there is one ultimate truth, and that is the God of the Hebrew people. The same God of the Holy Bible, who sent His only Son, our Lord, to be the atonement, the blood sacrifice, for our sins. Who being God in human form rose from the dead to sit at the right hand of God the Father.
Posts: 7 | Registered: Oct 2002
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listener
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Member # 338
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posted
I saw Falwell on the TV news. He apologised and admitted that he'd made a mistake. Nothing like 'I mean it but I'm retracting'. He even said he'd been misquoted, so the meaning you are supporting is yours, and not his.
The symbolism of fat, thin etc people was intended to convey the sense of people who are different in some way being given another God to worship.
Whether we like it or not, the Moslem God is the same God we pray to. There aren't two God's.
'He did tell us that the world would hate us though, and he also told us to hate false doctrines. He told us we would have enemies whom we are to bless and love.'
I haven't noticed a lot of blessing and love for our enemies going on lately.
Michael, I really would be fascinated to know where your story about 'raping non Moslem women comes from'?
The Mayor of this city of Birmingham is a Moslem. I worked in his office whilst I was studying during vacations. I just phoned him and asked him if there was any basis to that story. He says there is absolutely no foundation to it.
He gave me a quote from the Koran .. 'do not be discouraged by the words of others'. He encouraged me to soldier on and become a good Christian.
I'm not hiding David Campbell, but I certainly wouldn't allow my name to be joined with the three 'men of God'.
I note that no one took up my comments on Noraid. The IRA are a terrorist organistion just like Bin Ladens lunatics. They are funded by Americans in the name of 'freedom'. Americans who believe that their dollars can buy a united Ireland by financing the purchase of weapons and explosives. We in Britain don't despise all Americans because of this. In fact Britain is America's only true ally. We are intelligent enough to see that a misguided few are blackening the name of a great and decent country.
I merely suggest that you apply the same principle of fairness to other people of different nationalities, faiths, and perhaps color, as you expect us to apply to you.
Posts: 119 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Miguel
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Member # 47
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posted
YES KINDGO I AGREE;
AFTER ALL WE ALL HAVE SOME KIND OF RUDE BEHAVIOR (S) IN OUR LIVES.
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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Kindgo
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Member # 2
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posted
Mac,
there's a big difference between apologizing and retracting a statement.
I took his apology to mean that he didn't mean to purposely antagonize anyone... which I think should be the goal of all Christians.
Granted, we will antagonize people by speaking the truth... but it should never be our goal.
I think it was Paul who instructed us that we should strive to live peacefully with all men. (in somuch as it is possible)
![[Bang Head]](graemlins/BangHead.gif)
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Miguel
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Member # 47
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posted
WELL GUESS WHAT?
HE JUST FISH APOLOGIZING AND ADMITTING HE MADE A MISTAKE
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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knowHim
Admin
Member # 8
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posted
AMEN Susan & Helpforhomeschoolers!
I totally agree! At least Jerry Falwell did not avoid the question or run and hide. Pray for Jerry Falwell that he continues to do the right thing and don't give in to the media who is out to take God out of the USA.
God is the only God and it is not up for debate. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Every knee will bow!
Jerry owes no one an apology! Preach on brother Jerry!
In an interview broadcast with the CBS television's "60 Minutes" news program, Falwell called the prophet "a terrorist". Franklin Graham said last November that Islam was "a very evil and wicked religion." Pat Robertson said February that Islam was a religion of violence seeking to "dominate and then, if need be, destroy".
Go ahead and add my name to the list. I totally agree with them --- my name is David Campbell from Fish the Net www.fishthe.net
We need to take our stand with the above men of God and stop being afraid. Stand up and be counted. Jesus is coming are you going out to meet Him or will he find you hidding!
That is the rest of the story! Don't fear Jesus is coming!
Plow on, plow on...
David
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Plow on, plow on...
David Campbell
Posts: 426 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Listener:
"There is only one God surely?"
One TRUE GOD. YES! The God of Abraham, Issac & Jacob... the Father who sent Jesus Christ!
"Or do black people, fat people, thin people, Red Indians, Christians, Jews, and Moslems, all look up to a different God?"
I don't know how anyone could catogorize this way (above) Surely there are black, fat, thin, native American that worship Almighty God and others who worship false God's. The God of Islam is not Almighty God according to the Bible.
"I am still trying to find a way to salvation within myself."
My dear friend, salvation is not in yourself and cannot be found there it can only be found in the Blood of Christ Jesus.
"I am ill prepared to send others to damnation because of their religious beliefs, however different to my own."
Neither you nor I can send anyone to damnation, but God says that all who do not believe that Jesus is the Son of the Living God Almighty will be damned to eternal Hell.
"Jesus never told us to hate anyone. I'm not prepared to do so."
He did tell us that the world would hate us though, and he also told us to hate false doctrines. He told us we would have enemies whom we are to bless and love.
This does not mean we are silent about the false doctrine and evil created by the religion that is Islam. We are to pray for the Muslim people who follow Islam. But the religion of Islam is evil. And we do not serve the Lord by our silence of this truth
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Michael
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Member # 170
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Yes, Listener, a terrorist is a terrorist no matter whether Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Moslem, or Hindu, etc.
As for Mohammed, he claimed Jesus never died on the Cross and rose from the dead and is not mankind's Messiah. According to Christian scripture, that means Mohammed and his religion are of the spirit of the AntiChrist.
Also, the life of Mohammed--when judged by Christian standards--is one filled with repulsive sins(i.e., telling his men it's OK to rape women who are not Moslem.)
Posts: 106 | From: NYS | Registered: Jul 2002
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listener
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Member # 338
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posted
The UK has endured over 30 years of Irish terrorism in the recent past. The sides are selected on a religious basis. No, no Muslims. On the one side Catholics and the other side Protestants. Each believing themselves to be 'Christian', and each believing that they 'have God on their side'.
I live with my Uncle, who likes the 60's music of Bob Dylan, the American singer/songwriter. (Originally Robert Zimmerman, and a Born Again Christian.) His song ..With God on Our side.. is wonderful. And very relevant today.
In the past 30 years many, many Americans have supported the terrorism in Ireland and the UK through their contributions to Noraid. This includes the giant restaurant concern McDonalds that gives a percentage of its profits to that terrorist organisation.
The people who perpetrated the terrible Omagh bombing were funded by Noraid.
The city I live in, Birmingham, was decimated by IRA bombs in 1974.
We have been through all the stages of anger and hatred that America is now starting to go through over 9/11.
Initially the Irish were hated. Then, depending on one's religious background, either Catholics or Protestants were despised.
Eventually reason returns. The voices that were taking advantage of the situation for their own motives, and squawking like Falwell to get the ear of those who are running on emotion instead of pausing to think, are silenced.
People begin to understand that the terrorists are like cuckoos. They lay their eggs in anothers nest. The cuckoo raised by a sparrow is still a cuckoo. The sparrows that raise it are still sparrows. There are no Irish terrorists, Catholic terrorists, Protestant terrorists, or Communist terrorists. There are lots of terrorsts of diverse origins and persuasions. They are common or garden terrorists.
Falwell wasn't sorting the wheat from the chaff. He was trying to elevate himself in a churlish and cowardly manner. And then thought better of it. If you are excited by the words of fools you will flounder. People like Falwell promote mob rule. Lynch mobs. Barbarism. His words bear no relation to Christianity, or basic decency.
Mohammed was not a terrorist. The followers of Islam are not terrorists.
There are many terrorists who happen to be of the Islamic faith.
Mouse wrote ....
'How does it serve God to remind the world that Islam promotes terrorism, when not many even realize we do NOT worship the same God?'
There is only one God surely? Or do black people, fat people, thin people, Red Indians, Christians, Jews, and Moslems, all look up to a different God?
Yes, I disagree with your views and your comments.
I am still trying to find a way to salvation within myself. I am ill prepared to send others to damnation because of their religious beliefs, however different to my own.
I hope a little Christian reason visits everyone.
Jesus never told us to hate anyone. I'm not prepared to do so.
I sincerely add, May God Bless you all.
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mouse
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Member # 514
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posted
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Better they should mistreat us because we spoke the truth about JESUS.
How does it serve God to remind the world that Islam promotes terrorism, when not many even realize we do NOT worship the same God?
God's truth is more important, and controversial enough for several lifetimes.
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Susan
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posted
He surely shouldn't have appologized!
He should have stood his ground for God!
Separation of the wheat from the chaff is so heartbreaking. I pray I'm wheat and not chaff.
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Kindgo
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Cleric demands death for Robertson, Falwell and Franklin Graham
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/768035/posts
Cleric demands death for three US Protestant pastors
AFP ^ | October 12, 2002
Posted on 10/12/2002 2:53 PM Pacific by Ranger
TEHRAN, Oct 12 (AFP) - A personal representative of Iran's supreme leader has called for three prominent US Protestant ministers to be killed for insulting the Muslim prophet Mohammed, a report said Saturday.
In an interview broadcast with the CBS television's "60 Minutes" news program, Falwell called the prophet "a terrorist". Franklin Graham said last November that Islam was "a very evil and wicked religion." Pat Robertson said February that Islam was a religion of violence seeking to "dominate and then, if need be, destroy".
The Abrar newspaper quoted Ayatollah Mohsen Mujtahed Shabestari as saying during a Friday prayer sermon in the northwestern city of Tabriz that "in our opinion, to kill these three is necessary."
"US leaders want to repeat the crusades," he alleged.
Shabestari, who is supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's personal representative to Iran's Azerbaijan province, only referred to the three as "the Israeli mercenaries" who needed to be "separated from other Christians".
However, other officials here have already singled out Jerry Falwell, Pat Roberston and Franklin Graham, the son of well-known televangelist Billy Graham.
In 1989, Iran's late supreme leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a fatwa ordering the death of Indian-born British author Salman Rushdie over his book "The Satanic Verses", which was deemed to be blasphemous.
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Jerry Falwell Apologizes for Mohammed Criticism
Sat Oct 12,10:24 PM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Conservative U.S. preacher Jerry Falwell apologized on Saturday for calling the prophet Mohammad a terrorist, saying he meant no disrespect to "any sincere, law abiding Muslim."
The apology came after top Iranian and British officials condemned the remarks, which Falwell made last week in an interview on the CBS new show "60 Minutes."
"I think Muhammad was a terrorist," Falwell said in the interview. "I read enough of the history of his life written by both Muslims and -- non-Muslims, (to know) that he was a -- a violent man, a man of war."
The comments angered Muslims around the world, triggering Hindu-Muslim clashes in western India on Friday and Saturday that left at least nine people dead. Earlier in the week, there were protests in Kashmir (news - web sites), the disputed province at the heart of a military standoff between India and Pakistan, and outside the offices of CBS News in New York.
Iranian Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi on Wednesday condemned the remarks as encouraging violence.
"What this American priest said encourages war among civilizations and also increases crises and it should be confronted," Kharrazi said.
British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, who was in Iran to seek Tehran's support for a tough U.N. resolution on Iraq, said he regarded Falwell's comments "as much an insult to me as a Christian as they are to Muslims."
Falwell, a conservative Baptist and a leading voice for the Christian right in America, said in a prepared statement that he was sorry for the hurt feelings caused by his comments.
"I sincerely apologize that certain statements of mine made during an interview for (the Oct. 6 edition of) CBS's '60 Minutes' were hurtful to the feelings of many Muslims.
"I intended no disrespect to any sincere, law abiding Muslim," he said.
Falwell said his error came from answering a "controversial and loaded question" at the end of an hour-long interview.
"That was a mistake and I apologize," he said.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ![[mad2]](graemlins/mad2.gif)
Why did he apologize for telling the truth!
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Susan
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In my opinion, Fallwell told the simple truth.
There is one true God. That is our creator and the Father of Jesus Christ.
The problem is that Christians need to stand up for theit God and the true and stop tickling the social and religious ears.
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mouse
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Member # 514
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posted
![[dunce]](graemlins/dunce1.gif)
One really stupid question: why did the liberal media ask such a leading, biased question in the first place? (hey, I did qualify it with stupid)
Granted Falwell should not have resorted to 'name calling', especially in this day and age. There is enough to say that is controversial just by sticking with the fact that Mohammed and Islam lead millions astray daily, into the pits of hell.
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Kindgo
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web page
By Anwar Iqbal
From the International Desk
Published 10/6/2002 9:36 AM
WASHINGTON, Oct. 6 (UPI) -- Remarks by conservative Baptist minister Rev. Jerry Falwell, who called Prophet Mohammed a "terrorist," appears to have outraged Muslims across the globe with protests reported from India to Malaysia.
In the Indian state of Kashmir, Muslim protesters clashed with police while urging shopkeepers to observe a complete strike against the remarks. Elsewhere in India, Muslim groups held peaceful rallies to register their protest.
In most of the 57 Muslim nations across the world, newspapers prominently reported Falwell's remarks. Some also wrote commentary pieces and editorials, urging the minister to apologize.
In an interview with CBS' "60 Minutes," Falwell said, "I think Mohammad was a terrorist."
The network released a partial transcript of the interview Thursday. The Baptist minister's comments occur in a segment about American conservative Christians' political support for Israel.
The demand for an apology was also supported by the New York-based Anti-Defamation League, an organization fighting anti-Semitism since 1913.
"The Rev. Jerry Falwell has once again demonstrated his intolerance by his outrageous charge about the Prophet Mohammed. He owes an apology to the millions of good people who follow the Muslim faith," said ADL's national director, Abraham H. Foxman. "As a man of religion, he should be working toward bringing faith communities closer together, not driving wedges through them."
In the interview, Falwell said he had concluded from reading Muslim and non-Muslim writers that Islam's prophet "was a -- a violent man, a man of war."
Asked to comment on the interview, Falwell said he had been asked whether he considered Mohammad a terrorist and "I tried to reply honestly."
Other conservative Protestant clergy also have made critical comments about Islam and Mohammad since the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. They include Franklin Graham, Billy Graham's son and successor, TV evangelist Pat Robertson and leaders in the Southern Baptist Convention.
In response to Falwell's remarks, Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington, said Friday: "Anybody is free to be a bigot if they want to. What really concerns us is the lack of reaction by mainstream religious and political leaders, who say nothing when these bigots voice these attacks."
"These attacks on Islam and Prophet Mohammad not only reveal utter ignorance of history, but also reflect on the paranoia of these evangelical leaders who just cannot see Islam as a major American religion with over 7 million followers in the United States," said a spokesman for the Islamic Society of North America, an umbrella group representing more than a dozen Muslim groups in North America.
Islam is the second-largest religion in the world with more than 1.3 billion followers.
In Malaysia, Prime Minister Mahathir Mohammad urged Muslims on not to take Falwell's remarks seriously.
Mahathir, 76, who leads a moderate, predominantly Muslim nation in Southeast Asia, said people who made such remarks were ignorant about Islam and its 7th century founder, Mohammad.
"They don't understand anything," Mahathir was quoted a saying by the national news agency, Bernama. "They don't understand Islam."
Mahathir said that Falwell, as a religious leader, had no right to make such a statement, but added: "I'm not going to accuse all Christians. Only one person made such (a) statement."
Malaysia's minister in charge of Muslim affairs commented that CBS should not take the risk of hurting Muslim feelings by broadcasting the interview. He advised Falwell to learn more about the religion.
Malaysia will chair the Organization of the Islamic Conference, a grouping of 57 Muslim nations, next year.
In Houston, Texas, more than 100 Muslims demonstrated outside a local CBS affiliate Saturday to protest insulting remarks against their prophet.
"We are here to ask Channel 11 not to broadcast the segment tomorrow," said Masrur J. Khan, spokesman for the Islamic Society of Greater Houston.
Local Muslim leaders condemned Falwell, calling the statements made in the interview scheduled to air Sunday on the local KHOU-Channel 11 bigoted, irresponsible and sacrilegious. They fear the comments may lead to attacks on American Muslims.
"While we respect the opinions of all groups and leaders in our community, no one has seen this program, including KHOU," said the channel's president and general manager, Peter Diaz, while defending the decision to air the interview.
Diaz continued: "60 Minutes is arguably the most respected news program in the world. They trust the American public to make up their own minds about issues and opinions expressed on the program. We'll trust Houstonians to make up their minds, too."
Standing on sidewalks outside the TV station on Allen Parkway, members of the local Muslim community held signs that read: "Islam for Peace," "Work for Peace not War/Hatred" and "Moses, Jesus, Mohammed: Pious Prophets of God" and "We Respect all Prophets."
"We Muslims have never said anything against any other prophet. So why do people say things about our prophet," said Qasim Ahmed, imam of Houston's Al-Islam mosque.
"In the present circumstances, people want healing, not war and controversy," he added.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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