Christian Message Boards: Coming age of apostacy!

This is topic Coming age of apostacy! in forum Exposing False Teaching at Christian Message Boards.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=53;t=000398

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

I would like to gather materials and do this justice. However, I am just going to be brief.

What is the age of apostacy? Is it necessarily a backslidden condition where people scoff at church, and churchianity? This servant of the Lord believes that it is different than that. In fact, I believe that churchianity of some sort, of various sorts, will be popular in the, or apporaching the end of the age. So then, what will it be like? Will it be recognizable? For scripture says, (2Ti 3:5) "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." It will be New Age, I'm ok, you're ok faith that will be intoxicatingly accepting, and excusing, which seems to have power.

How does this work? Well, imagine the case of a preacher in a crowd of people giving a message. So what is wrong with a preacher preaching, and people hearing, and people going away naming the name of Christ? Let's look. Say that the preacher gives the message that Jesus died for your sins, and says that you are saved, you are going to heaven. Well, what is wrong with that? Does anybody else see anything wrong here? A preacher gives a message. People receive the message. People Name the name of Christ, and it is an I'm ok, you're ok celebration. So, what is wrong with that? You don't see it? There is something missing, and it is huge.

Let's replay it. The preacher says Christ died on the Cross for your sins. He says that you are saved, and you are going to heaven. He declares this, and what did you have to 'do'? After all, the preacher 'pronounced' it, but he left something out. "Repentance!" There is no salvation without it. And repentance is 'participation' with the finished work of Christ. We participate by faith. We repent all the way, or not, but not to misses the mark of the life that IS Christ.

So what of it? Well, we have new agers who leave this part out. It is for them like they identify with what the preacher said, and so they make the claim that they are the 'chosen' of God; the elect! What a boast! It would be good, wonderful, except for the facts getting in the way. Just because a preacher declares it, doesn't make it to be, even though it is true. Jesus did die for your sins. But no one can declare it for you.

Neither does one 'recognize' it and 'have' what Jesus did in their behalf, as though it is an unchangable fact, just because it is, and that just is simply all. But the message is one of 'repentance', even as John the Baptist taught in the gospels. And repentance requires that the 'old man' be crucified, which he is not if one does not repent, neither does he stay dead unless one 'follows', which is continued repentance. For this is why Jesus needed to say to, "Take up your Cross and follow me!" That is, it requires 'active, and ongoing participation', so that it is not 'final' as some would have you to believe. But some declare with boldness, that he (the old fellow) is dead and gone, as though it is an unchangable fact that is, that already occurred, and that makes it a fact that they no longer have to even consider, because it is over with! It is not so. For if it were, Paul would not have needed to have said, "I die daily." And here is why it is an I'm ok, you're ok faith, because it 'accepts' something as true, without involving one's participation. Therefore the 'old man' is not even under the Cross, dead even though the one 'claims' the word saying that he is. And Christ isn't ministered through dead men. Rather sin is.

But it fits the description of, (2Ti 3:5) "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof." For it sounds too good to be true, and who would resist, for they get to 'have' their 'salvation' and get to 'keep themselves' too, while foolishly boasting that their 'old man' is dead! But it isn't reality. Their fruit declares it, if one looks.

This will be a dangerous time, for many people will not get to discover the truth because the lie will be so appealing that they will not know to consider the death of the old man by repentance, for the 'old man' will believe a lie, and cling to it, while teaching others.

Posted by TB125 (Member # 2450) on :

Michael,
I'm really glad to see this statement that you made in the above post:

quote:
And repentance requires that the 'old man' be crucified, which he is not if one does not repent, neither does he stay dead unless one 'follows', which is continued repentance. For this is why Jesus needed to say to, "Take up your Cross and follow me!" That is, it requires 'active, and ongoing participation ', so that it is not 'final' as some would have you to believe. But some declare with boldness, that he (the old fellow) is dead and gone, as though it is an unchangable fact that is, that already occurred, and that makes it a fact that they no longer have to even consider, because it is over with! It is not so. For if it were, Paul would not have needed to have said, "I die daily."

Such "ongoing participation" sounds like something that the believer does as he lives "in Christ" and has the Spirit of Christ living in him. "Taking up" one's cross, following Jesus, and dying daily are, I think, as you seem to be indicating, part of one's "ongoing participation". If you really mean what you seem to be saying in this statement, I think that many of your critics, including me, on this Board will be somewhat relieved as they understand more clearly your continuing messages. Thanks for this further clarification of your beliefs.

Posted by Billy (Member # 7193) on :

If one truly is saved, the 'ongoing participation' will simply happen. As new creatures in Christ, we will hate the sin we once loved and love the God we once hated. Through the power of Christ, this regeration will manifest in our lives the fruits of the Spirit. Yes, devotion to prayer, Bible study and fellowship with other believers aid us in this endeavor, but those too should come natural to the truly regenerate Christian. As we grow in these spiritual disciplines, we will grow in spiritual maturity and be better equipped, through the power of the Spirit, to live out the commission, "Be holy, as I AM holy."

As for the ungodly taking on a 'form' of godliness, this currently manifests in multiple ways. We have those that are doing things in the name of Christ, though they have no biblical basis for what they are doing, they cause confusion and they give reason to the world to blaspheme the Lord, through their silliness. Another manifestation is of those that adhere to the idea that God is all law and no grace. We see this in the "God Hates Fags" bunch, as well as others. Still yet, there is the Word of Faith movement with their claims that we are "little gods" and their insistence that God wants us to be healthy, wealthy and happy, even though that kind of god would never care much about our holiness.

In Christ,
Billy.

Posted by Zeena (Member # 7223) on :

Great post Billy, praise God! [Big Grin]

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

quote:

quote:
Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily,[daily] and follow me.

I'm glad you are relieved TB125. Though one tries, he or she can talk until blue in the face, and not make the whole message clear. But, exactly! That is how it is. We participate. We do so by these things. Not that we cause anything mind you. We participate in receiving, which requires 'repentance'. And this is the verse I was looking for. Out of four gospels, it only says it this way in Luke! Daily!

[Cross]

quote:
Buh Billy!
quote:
As for the ungodly taking on a 'form' of godliness, this currently manifests in multiple ways. We have those that are doing things in the name of Christ, though they have no biblical basis for what they are doing, they cause confusion and they give reason to the world to blaspheme the Lord, through their silliness. Another manifestation is of those that adhere to the idea that God is all law and no grace. We see this in the "God Hates Fags" bunch, as well as others. Still yet, there is the Word of Faith movement with their claims that we are "little gods" and their insistence that God wants us to be healthy, wealthy and happy, even though that kind of god would never care much about our holiness.

Some who say that they (meaning others) have "NO biblical basis," are not themselves right just because they are able to say that about someone.

2Co 10:18 For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.

And the one may wake up one day to find themselves in a cold and desperate situation when they realize that they are not the ones whom the Lord commended. We should be tempered when blasting away at others.

And I have news for you. The word of faith movement is not explicitly wrong. For prayer is word of faith. And if it is according to His will, scripture covers it:

1Jn 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Or do you suppose that He was just tickling our fancy?

I agree that "lusting after evil things," is what seems to be going on in prosperity teaching, for scripture says:

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

and:

Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

It is not Holiness. It removes one from, or prevents them from holiness. But He did not appoint us to be the critics of those who have. Criticizing removes us the same as their possible error, possibly removes them (from grace). If they have it, and they should not, then they got their reward in this life. So who are we? Jealousy, or envy are sin also. So our mouths should be stopped, and we, if we are true to His teaching should worry not about what they do, but should:

Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Criticizing them is the same as what they are doing. It is not edifying to critize them any more than it is spiritually healthy to desire worldly things. So it is clearly a mote and beam situation! No?

Luk 12:21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

God does hate homosexuality. There is no mistake here. If nothing else, we can simply say that He hates sin. So homosexuality is a sin, and grace does not 'cover' it. That would be justifying sin.

Grace delivers. If one is in His grace, they are delivered, not overlooked. Else everybody would practice sin till their heart's content, which it would never be. And scripture makes it more than clear that people who think that they are 'ok' because grace 'covers' it, are the people who will face His greatest wrath.

Just because HE is patient, many think that He is ignoring, or overlooking:

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But they will 'reap' what they sew. Yet they will not receive this passage.

In fact, the New Age gospel will likely be ushered in and promoted by homo's. It would be the ultimate in I'm ok, you're ok, to have a gospel that does not condemn homosexuality, treating it lightly because people want to cling to their sin, and still feel that they have eternal salvation. It is altogether wicked. And then some. And here again is a friendship with the world situation:

[LIST] Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses,

This comes back full circle to 'repent'. Without it, you do not have what you think that you do. For salvation is a person, and the benefit of that person is in relationship with that person. So the words HE gives in the Bible describe how it is, and if we do not accept that, we are out of relationship. And to be out of relationship means that He will say, "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity. I never knew you."

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

So, TB. It might sound like I am backpeddling here. I am not, when I say active participation is required. And I believe you have said this in the past, I recall, about such participation. I certainly did not mean to indicate that it is not so when we discussed it. And I suppose the problem is in when I use the word 'done'. His part is done. We participate by letting it be, instead of trying to 'do' it. It is called 'His Rest'. But that does not mean that there isn't active, everpresent participation until we finish the race. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

But when you said something about constant repenting, and I sounded like that wasn't necessary, it is because I maintain that the state of repentance can be maintained, without having to reenter a condition wherein we necessarily must repent again, over and over, as though we 'necessarily' will sin no matter what. That is not walking on water, which HE enables us to do. That best describes it.

The whole purpose is to illustrate that very thing. By faith, we can walk on water (which Peter's little episode served to illustrate). But people take Romans chapter seven and scoff, stating that we must sink, and it is not only the norm, it is our state. Therefore, since is is inconceivable to them that we can float, they are therefore, ok in their sins. Sad mistake.

So, sorry! I didn't mean to disagree, per se.

Posted by TB125 (Member # 2450) on :

Michael,
You have said numerous times that the "work of Christ is done. I agree that it is "done" in respect to his sacrifical atonement for sin for the one who believes by faith that he is the Son of God, but I don't believe that it is done in respect to his "ongoing" work of sanctification in the life of the redeemed sinner. I think that you have implied this in your previous statement.

And so the redeemed sinner is instructed and challenged by Jesus to "obey" him, and by doing so he or she will continue to "participate" or to cooperate with Jesus and his indwelling Spirit in their cleansing and sanctifying work in his or her life to finally make him or her "fit" for inclusion in the Kingdom of God.

My problem with some of your previous statements is due to your implication that it is Jesus in the redeemed sinner who is doing all of the "work" and that there is really nothing for the "self" of the individual to do to "participate" or to "cooperate" in this work except to "have" Jesus. I think that it is this implication that confuses some of us as we try to clearly understand your position in regard to the process of sanctification in the life of the redeemed sinner. This recent exchange is helpful.

Posted by Zeena (Member # 7223) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
That is not walking on water, which HE enables us to do. That best describes it.

The whole purpose is to illustrate that very thing. By faith, we can walk on water (which Peter's little episode served to illustrate).

Indeed it did! [Smile]

Posted by TB125 (Member # 2450) on :

But he had to step out of the boat and move his legs step by step across the waves as he kept his eyes on Jesus. Or did Jesus do all of that too? And who was at fault when he started to sink? Did Jesus fail to stay "in" Peter so that Peter could continue to "have" the benefit of his enabling presence? Or did Peter fail in his "ongoing participation" in his walk of faith across the waves? I'll be interested in your answers to these questions Michael and Zeena.

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

Peter physically stepped out of the boat. That's ok! Abraham "took the knife to slay Isaac." Paul prayed to have the strength, unto utterance. Moses struck the rock (albeit, not the way he was commanded to). But God provided the water.

All of these things are the participation part. Another word would be obedience. However, all were following. Did Moses just go out with a rock on his mind, and demonstrate for Israel that God would provide water by slapping some rock that he found at random? Something had to place him in a place of relationship, of receiving from the Lord, in order for him to know what to do. That is what we are looking for. We are looking for what places us in relationship (don't take that word lightly), such that we are in fellowship. That is the obedience that we are after. However, the mind tricks us into thinking that we are to go out and look for a rock at random, and hit that sucker. Then we are amazed when we discover that it is just symbolism. Another word which would fit would be 'dead works'. What did Hebrews say about repenting from 'dead works'?

Israel followed a cloud by day, and fire by night. We, if we are not sanctified, follow our mindset. We follow imaginative stuff of a carnal mind. We follow 'good intentions' expecting them to be rewarded. But He doesn't reward good intentions. They are just our flesh. It tricks us.

quote:
And so the redeemed sinner is instructed and challenged by Jesus to "obey" him, and by doing so he or she will continue to "participate" or to cooperate with Jesus and his indwelling Spirit in their cleansing and sanctifying work in his or her life to finally make him or her "fit" for inclusion in the Kingdom of God.

You describe a 'process'. But His work is done. If we 'participate' we benefit. There is no process. There is 'in', or there is 'out'. One is cleansed if he 'believes' and is therefore 'in'. It is because God has already done the work. All HE is waiting for is for us to enter into it. But we want to think that we must earn it, or accomplish it by some gymnastics of some sort. All HE is waiting for is for us to enter it. We do so by 'faith'.

Posted by TB125 (Member # 2450) on :

Michael,
You say,

quote:
But His work is done.

But as I said in my previous message. His sacrifical "work" on the cross is done, but his transforming and cleansing "work" of santification in the redeemed sinner is not "done". I guess that you still disagree with me on that point. I'm glad to note that you accept the fact that the person must "participate" in Jesus work of redeeming sanctification. But you didn't answer either of my questions regarding who failed in Peter's situation. Maybe that is as much agreement as we are going to achieve in our discussion.

Posted by Zeena (Member # 7223) on :

quote:
Originally posted by TB125:
Michael,
You say,
quote:
But His work is done.
But as I said in my previous message. His sacrifical "work" on the cross is done, but his transforming and cleansing "work" of santification in the redeemed sinner is not "done".

AMEN!

Philippians 1:6
being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Oh, and btw, Peter failed.
He failed to look unto Jesus and turned his eyes to the effects of the wind instead. And so he began to sink. But Jesus saved him. [Smile]

Hebrews 12:2
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2 Corinthians 4:18
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

Romans 8:24
For in hope were we saved: but hope that is seen is not hope: for who hopeth for that which he seeth?

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

quote:
TB
quote:
My problem with some of your previous statements is due to your implication that it is Jesus in the redeemed sinner who is doing all of the "work" and that there is really nothing for the "self" of the individual to do to "participate" or to "cooperate" in this work except to "have" Jesus.

Well yes! There is. The 'self' of the individual must cooperate by going under the Cross. Beyond that there is no way to explain it, unless one says that 'self' is 'keeping alive' by it's very unbelief; and that by the insistance that it must 'participate', to accomplish, rather than to have. For to live unto self is to 'do'. To live unto God is to 'have', insomuch that we walk in His finished work.

quote:
TB
quote:
But as I said in my previous message. His sacrifical "work" on the cross is done, but his transforming and cleansing "work" of santification in the redeemed sinner is not "done".

Well, yes it is! And here is why you aren't under the Cross. It is because you don't believe that it is.

Peter? Who failed? Well, if Jesus' work is done, and we have Peter walking on the water for an example to compare with (even thought it is before Jesus ascended), then there is something very clear to see here. Jesus honered Peter's request. HE honored Peter's faith. Jesus 'was doing' what Peter believed of Him. Jesus didn't quit. Peter's faith quit.

[Bible]

Amen!

Posted by TB125 (Member # 2450) on :

Michael,
You introduced the incident of Peter's experience of walking on the water as an example of one's faith.

quote:
You said By faith, we can walk on water (which Peter's little episode served to illustrate).

But I still don't understand in accord with your beliefs regarding "faith" what happened with Peter that caused him to begin to sink as he was walking by "faith" toward Jesus across the waves. What was there about the presence of Jesus that he "had" by "faith" that allowed him to begin to sink? You indicated that "he failed". But how could he, if he "had" Jesus?

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

It seems to me TB that you need to find this answer for yourself. No! Really, He must answer this.

But.....

Peter quit believing that Jesus was doing it, and started believing that 'he' was 'doing' it. Instantly, he sank. And that, is the message of the gospel, and the summary of every word I speak. (More appropiately, it is the summary of every word that the Apostles that Jesus gave us, spoke.) Peter thought he was 'doing'. He lost something when he thought that, just as the everyday believer. For the every day believer has yet to walk on water for even an instant; but remains in a drowning condition by not taking His hand. He or she would rather 'do it' him or herself.

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

quote:
TB125
quote:
What was there about the presence of Jesus that he "had" by "faith" that allowed him to begin to sink?

I don't believe that this is the correct question. It should read:

What was there about the presence of Jesus that he "had" by "faith" that allowed him to float?

It was that Jesus was 'doing' the work. Peter was experiencing God. Peter was experiencing the work of God. This was by faith. Because don't we know, nobody walks on water by trying!!!!

Luke 12:25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?

Luke 12:26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?

Yet the flesh insists! And the average believer spends his or her life insisting, but to no avail. Paul calls this "dead works." Imaging a lifetime of them [happyhappy]

Posted by TB125 (Member # 2450) on :

Michael,

quote:
Peter quit believing that Jesus was doing it

if Jesus was "doing it"? That is what you haven't explained!!! I hope that this question is clear!

Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
It seems to me TB that you need to find this answer for yourself. No! Really, He must answer this.

But.....

Peter quit believing that Jesus was doing it, and started believing that 'he' was 'doing' it. Instantly, he sank. And that, is the message of the gospel, and the summary of every word I speak. (More appropiately, it is the summary of every word that the Apostles that Jesus gave us, spoke.) Peter thought he was 'doing'. He lost something when he thought that, just as the everyday believer. For the every day believer has yet to walk on water for even an instant; but remains in a drowning condition by not taking His hand. He or she would rather 'do it' him or herself.

And here I thought it was Peter's obedience to the Lord that allowed him to walk on the water and fear that caused him to start sinking. For he had little faith.

27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.
28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.

Posted by TB125 (Member # 2450) on :

Michael,
Here is what you previously said,

quote:
Peter quit believing that Jesus was doing it , and started believing that 'he' was 'doing' it.

My previous question wasn't clear. Let me try to clarify it. If Jesus was "doing it", what allowed Peter to start to believe that "he was doing it"? What is the nature of the relationship between Jesus and self in the internal structure of the believer's will and faith? Who is responsible for what in this matter of sanctification? When is sanctification completed? When can the believer no longer "sink" even when he or she is "walking on water"?

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

When Peter requested of Jesus, "If it be you, bid me come unto thee," he was authorized. In other words, faith was 'ordained'. He could trust and 'obey'. When Peter saw that the wind was boisterous, and the waves rose up, in his concern he instantly looked to himself for a solution. Immediately he sank, knowing that he could not walk on water. He failed in the moment to trust the one "That makes it happen."

He could not believe in himself, and he knew it.

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

So many believe that they can get saved (start out by grace) and trust themselves to accomplish HIS will, including sanctification, and salvation.

quote:
So to repeat:
quote:
When Peter saw that the wind was boisterous, and the waves rose up, in his concern he instantly looked to himself for a solution.

He threw out the grace of God in order to trust his own wisdom. He sank below God's will.

Posted by TB125 (Member # 2450) on :

Michael,
You didn't answer my questions. You say this:

quote:
He failed in the moment to trust the one " That makes it happen ."

If Jesus is the one "that makes it happen", how could Peter fail to trust him? Can a person "have" only a part of Jesus so that Jesus and "self" continue to strive for control in the believer's life? When does Jesus get full and permanent control of the believer's life and will?

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

When, and 'as' you yield your will fully, to His by faith.

"Our Father, who art in heaven, hollowed be thy name. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth, even as in Heaven."

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

Question by TB: If Jesus is the one "that makes it happen", how could Peter fail to trust him?

You are kidding, right? You were talking, even in earlier posts about 'participating', no? Jesus doesn't barge in. He doesn't kick the doors down. He requires your participation. It is a humble thing, without which one will not benefit of His blessing.

Mat 9:28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.

Did the blind man (hint) participate? How so? He participated by faith. Would Jesus have healed him if he did not believe.

Mat 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

More on "Believe ye that I am able to do this?"

Mar 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

Mar 9:24
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Mar 11:23
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

But who 'does' the doing, the believer, or the one who has both done, and is doing it all? Does anything happen apart from faith? Isn't that what the entire Bible is about?

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

TB's quest: Can a person "have" only a part of Jesus so that Jesus and "self" continue to strive for control in the believer's life? When does Jesus get full and permanent control of the believer's life and will?

A person has all of Jesus but he does not benefit without meeting the conditions of HiS design.

So, once again let me say, your will is yours. IF you do not surrender it, you are disobedient to Him. Moreover, you are preserving your own self, and refusing to go under the Cross.

Luk 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

TB asked: When does Jesus get full and permanent control of the believer's life and will?

Permanent? When you die. In the mean time, you can surrender your will to the one who knows the best for you, that HE may be glorified in your life, or you can refuse, and insist upon doing your own thing, in which case you may find that you are none of His. For, "As many as are 'led' by the Spirit are the Sons of God." Those who are led of the flesh, of self will, of their own contribution supposing it to be acceptable, are of the unbelief of Cain.

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

[Bible]

The hour has come for men to submit to the Lord, for the time is short. [Bible]

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

For someone reading this the light will come on.

One must offer their will, in surrender to His. God is the doer, not the believer. The believer is the receiver of His life, and works. It is known as 'salvation'.