Christian Message Boards: Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :

Question: "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

Answer: This is perhaps the most important question in all of Christian theology. This question is the cause of the Reformation - the split between the Protestant church and Catholic church. This question is a key difference between Biblical Christianity and most of the "Christian" cults. Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works? Am I saved just by believing in Jesus, or do I have to believe in Jesus and do certain things?

The question of faith alone or faith plus works is made difficult by some hard-to-reconcile Bible passages. Compare Romans 3:28, 5:1 and Galatians 3:24 with James 2:24. Some see a difference between Paul (salvation is by faith alone) and James (salvation is by faith plus works). In reality, Paul and James did not disagree at all. The only point of disagreement some people claim is over the relationship between faith and works. Paul dogmatically says that justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9) while James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus works. This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his life – then he likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).

Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit believers should have in their lives is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17)! James and Paul do not disagree on their teaching on salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone while James put emphasis on the fact that faith in Christ produces good works.

http://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-faith-alone.html

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

When scripture says that, "Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10)." He means not that we 'do' good works as if we are the source, or have the capability to perform them. My KJV says we are created 'unto' good works. Who does them? He does the works. Look at Jesus. He said, "My father, he doeth the works." Our duty is to yield to, not 'do'.

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :

Excellant post WildB. We keep talking about the fruit of the Holy Spirit, (love, joy, peace...), and that these lead to kindness and generosity. They are not works to earn salvation, but things we do because we care about people. The Lord Jesus makes us new creations who are able to be unselfish.

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

Rom 7:18 "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not."

|Therefore, It is not you who does it. And if Christ isn't doing it, it isn't being done. You have nothing to contribute but belief that He is doing it.

|You cannot 'do' them. That would be of the "LAW." All you can do is die, to be out of the way, that He may live. The works are His. The glory is His.

1Co 1:29 "That no flesh should glory in his presence."

(ever learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth)

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :

Okay Michael. But if you could please provide me with a suitable substitution for the word "do" then I will use that word instead. [happyhappy]

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

Well sweet thang, (ahm from the south) tis true, we use the word do. But I am aiming for the understanding, that we not try to snitch the glory from the one who is really doing the doing. The fact is that we participate. To others it looks like we are doing. And we call it that, rightfully, I guess, considering.

Really, if He is living, (if we are under the cross) He is doing the doing. Even Abraham when he offered Isaac, was not doing it of himself. He was enabled.

But I am not preaching at you. You make me think and I preach! [updown]

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :

Yes, He is the doer.

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

This is why I said in one post that it is faith and something. Because some say that it is not any more than just believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Yet, they don't receive all that He is to them. They catagorically deny some things that He is (does) to us, and use scripture to explain it. But they are leaning to their own understanding. I cannot help anyone outside of speaking the truth in love, and leaving the results to Christ. I try to expound on the word and let the Spirit convict. The Spirit bears witness. The hearers choose what they will believe, and on that day will the council of the hearts be made manifest. I will stand in good, to the praise of His Glory, not of my own.

But there is this mystery of thinking that we 'do' by intent. It goes back to what I said about motivation. Being motivated is not the same as being led. In one, the intent is good, but we know that in us dwells no good thing. In the other, we know that He is the doer, and since we no longer live, if you will, it is not us doing it. We need to know whether it is or not. Thereby we can determine if we have the right kind of faith and yielded spirit.

"As many as are led by the Spirit of God, are the sons of God."

How would that sound if it said that, as many as are led of good intentions because they said a prayer of salvation, are the approved of God. That is how some people think. To them this is relationship. I call them Baptists! (Just having fun.)

There is something inexpressable that they are missing, and I have no way to tell them, for they take the word and fend off the truth. It can only be said that they do this to justify themselves to God, but they are completely missing it. Their thinking is out of 'doing' to show themselves approved. Yet, since we don't merit it, all that we can do is receive. Therefore we should discover what He wants us to receive.

And it comes full circle to all of my other posts, concerning 'doing' vs. 'having'. Have in the name of our precious Lord Jesus Christ! Amen.

But let me add one disclaimer here. When Jesus is your heart, it is different than when Jesus is in your heart. When Jesus is your heart, then you know that you have truly given Him it all. For Him to be in your heart, you are still exercising your will, your desires over His.

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :

Spend some moments slowly reading the response of Jesus to their question, “What are the things God wants us to do?” (John 6:28).

Jesus replied: “The work God wants you to do is this …”

Can’t you see the people lean closer, their minds racing? “What is the work he wants us to do? Pray more? Give more? Study? Travel? Memorize the Torah? What is the work he wants?” Sly is this scheme of Satan. Rather than lead us away from grace, he causes us to question grace or to earn it … and in the end we never even know it.

What is it, then, that God wants us to do? What is the work he seeks? Just believe. Believe the One he sent. “The work God wants you to do is this: Believe the One he sent.”

Someone is reading this and shaking his or her head and asking, “Are you saying it is possible to go to heaven with no good works?” The answer is no. Good works are a requirement. Someone else is reading and asking, “Are you saying it is possible to go to heaven without good character?” My answer again is no. Good character is also required. In order to enter heaven one must have good works and good character.

But, alas, there is the problem. You have neither.
Oh, you’ve done some nice things in your life. But you do not have enough good works to go to heaven regardless of your sacrifice. No matter how noble your gifts, they are not enough to get you into heaven.

Nor do you have enough character to go to heaven. Please don’t be offended. (Then, again, be offended, if necessary.) You’re probably a very decent person. But decency isn’t enough. Those who see God are not the decent; they are the holy. “Anyone whose life is not holy will never see the Lord” (Heb. 12:14).

You may be decent. You may pay taxes and kiss your kids and sleep with a clean conscience. But apart from Christ you aren’t holy. So how can you go to heaven?

Only believe.

Accept the work already done, the work of Jesus on the cross.

Only believe.

Accept the goodness of Jesus Christ. Abandon your own works and accept his. Abandon your own decency and accept his. Stand before God in his name, not yours. “Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved, but anyone who does not believe will be punished” (Mark 16:16).

It’s that simple? It’s that simple. It’s that easy? There was nothing easy at all about it. The cross was heavy, the blood was real, and the price was extravagant. It would have bankrupted you or me, so he paid it for us. Call it simple. Call it a gift. But don’t call it easy.

Call it what it is. Call it grace.

Lucado, M. (1995). A gentle thunder : Hearing God through the storm (136). Dallas, TX: Word Pub.