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Posted by friendlyrose (Member # 6608) on :
 
Well, I know this is a heated topic, but I would like to know why some people feel you can lose your salvation. I was always taught that you couldn't if you were truly saved, according to verses like Noone can snatch you out of my Father's hand, romans 8:38-39?? saying that nothing can separate us from the love of Christ, Jesus saying He will never leave us or forsake us, If you have the Son then you have eternal life; if you have not the Son then you do not have eternal life, etc.
There are some verses somewhere, maybe in Hebrews, I forget about some branches being burned that people use for saying u can lose your salvation. I do not really understand them. Where are they again and can anyone clarify their side in this matter? I also wonder what does it take for you to think u can lose your salvation? Is it any sin? Like, do u feel you must pray for salvation after every sin? Or if you are struggling with repetitive sin? Just curious. Of course Paul explained how he struggled with sin but did not seem to worry about his salvation. I am also aware of the verse in revelation where Jesus says to one of the churches that He will vomit them out of His mouth because they are neither cold nor hot but lukewarm. Does that definitely mean a loss of salvation u think or is it just that He is saying He is disgusted by their behavior. I did come across another verse saying He would blot out their name in the Lamb's book of life to another church recently, never paid attention to that before, need to read it again. I forgot what it was that caused Him to threaten that. It is also somewhat confusing as to who the seven churches are and who they represent. If they are supposed to represent all of the church, then which one is the phillippian church that gets raptured? Because they kept His word through patience and perseverance; what does that mean exactly? Of course everyone sins so how can you keep all of the word all the time and be assured of rapture? I have only recently been aware of the teaching that only the worthy christians will be raptured, because of that verse and one in Luke where JEsus says to pray that you will be worthy to escape all of these things. Any thoughts on this?
Now of course I do not believe you can be saved and have a license to sin and do whatever you want because there is no punishment for it. That is not allowed! If you continue to sin and do not repent or have any guilt or remorse, then you can't have the Holy Spirit in you, for He will draw you to repentance and convict you of sin. Thanks.
 

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Posted by jimbarn (Member # 7053) on :
 
This has been one that has puzzled many.
When I was saved I was shown something that helped me greatly.
This was given me by God, Because it came up very soon after my salvation and started reading my Bible.
I came from a non-Christian background.

John 10:27 states;"My sheep hear my voice and I know them."
Matthew 7:23 says; "And then I will declare to them 'I never knew you, depart from me you workers of lawlessness.'
If he knows us today, how could he not know us in the future. Granting one is truly saved.
Would not be an issue to a lost person since they do not care in the first place.

These verses helped me understand this subject best.
Hope this helps.Also, the thread about 'can a saved person lose salvation' under this same topic has many helpful teachings.

Jimbarn
 

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Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

This is encouraging. However, that aside:

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.


Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

If you believe unto the saving of the soul, you will not draw back unto perdition, which consequence is the not saving of your soul.

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

This one does not mean that one will lose their soul, but pay attention to it:

Col 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
 

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Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

Voluntary humility as used here means counterfeit. It means a work of the flesh by a deceptive, or deceived person. To add to that, a clue about someone like that is indicated by the worshiping of angels phrase. This perhaps could be compared with someone like Oprah! (Am I judging her?)

Someone holding to the head is someone abiding in Christ, who is knit together with the rest of the body, which grows as people come into the revelation of Him.
 

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Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
Hi friendlyrose,
We should be more concerned with knowing what the conditions are for salvation than knowing whether or not one can lose salvation. I can assure you that the gospels teach us that mental acknowledgement of the truth without the consent of the will to the same is not saving faith. Simply acknowledging the guilt of sin without forsaking sin is not true repentance. Confessing Jesus is Lord without actually living our lives devoted to His Lordship is hypocrisy. The real test is the test of our committment to the Lord Jesus.

With love in Christ, Daniel
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
friendlyrose, I am going to ask a question and hope to provoke the right and only answer.

In the parable of the Ten Virgins, were they all saved?

if the answer is yes and that it the only logical answer. they all had oil, the foolish had just not brought any extra.

when the Bridegroom came, why were 5 found foolish and left behind?

Once Saved Always Saved is the teaching that takes away my ability to serenader my will on a day by day basis.

the only purpose for trials , temptation, and persecutions is to see if we will endure till the end of the race.

no man can pluck me out of Yahweh's Hand but I can demand Him let me go.

Go back a read the parable of the prodigal son, he told his father he wanted his part now and backslide but in that case he came back doesn't mean every backslider will return and ask for forgiveness.

the backslider that dies backsliden never asking for forgiveness will die in those un-confessed sins and hell will be his home.
 

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Posted by friendlyrose (Member # 6608) on :
 
Thank you for your responses. I don't believe that once saved always saved, or security in your salvation, takes away your ability to surrender your will. People still have the choice to sin or obey, but loss of salvation is not the issue, if you subscribe to that view. Because Jesus work on the cross saves us; not our ability to not sin, or we would all be lost. If you sin, then you will still be punished; you don't get off scot free and you lose rewards in heaven.

I also don't understand the view about confessing all of your sins. I know we must do that. My point is that Jesus died in the past for all of our future sins, so His redeeming work covers all of them. Confession and repentance put us back into fellowship or a right relationship with God, but they don't take away our relationship. It seems to me that you imply, becauseHelives, that each sin qualifies us for hell until we confess it, by your backslider example. I don't know that if you are on your deathbed and have forgotten to confess some sins that you will go to hell if you are saved. There may be sins we are not even aware of that we have done, maybe having hurt someone in some way, or not confessed prayerlessness or something like that. What about people that know something is wrong and confess the sin even before they do it, and after too? But what if they died after the sin while not confessing immediately after, do they go to hell in your view?
Or is more involved such as actively saying I am turning away from God and do not believe in Him anymore for salvation to be lost?
I do believe that if you saved, the Holy Spirit will continue to draw you back to Himself and convict you of sin, even if you are backsliding, so it is hard to believe that one can go so far away from Him to the point of no return. I still do not understand the whole issue or the rapture of the worthy one either. What makes us worthy? Jesus's blood. So how is one more worthy than another? Maybe if you are actively seeking to obey Christ and live your life for Him and be a witness for Him? I don't know. It just seems that everyone falls short somehow. It's very confusing.

 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 

quote:

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My point is that Jesus died in the past for all of our future sins, so His redeeming work covers all of them.

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friendlyrose show me where the scripture say all my sin past, present and future are forgiven and you can end this discussion.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

friendlyrose, following Yahshua is a daily choice not a one time thing....

Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

"But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end." (Hebrews 3:6)

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 

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Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
Hi again friendlyrose,
I was reading through your posts here again and I had some thoughts thats I would like to share with you. It is true that the love of the truth brings us comfort, peace in our hearts, and a joy unspeakeable.....and the holy spirit gives us a confidence that God is with us. He desires the best for all of us.........so there is something very important that we need to consider in our hearts. Whenever there are warnings that are given in scripture (and there are many) they apply to all of us, and it is in our best interest to heed to them because it is Jesus' desire that we remain in fellowship with God. Warnings are to protect us, not to just be a way for God to make our lives more difficult. I think many people do not realize that warnings are "intercessory work." If we err on the side of caution we take all the warnings seriously. With Gods awesome love comes his strict discipline. God does not desire for us to be lured back into the worlds ways, desires, ambitions, lusts, etc. Dont think it is'nt possible to be drawn away! Let me share with you this testimony of mine where I received a warning from the Holy Spirit.

It was in the night as I was asleep in bed. I suddenly awoke as I felt my right leg move across the bed and hang over the side. My first thought was that I needed to get up because God desired to show me something. Now I do not know whether I got up physically or whether my spirit got up. The next thing I remember is there was two women in snowy white long robes who each had a hold of my arms. They escorted me to this bench and we sat down together. I looked straight in front of me and I saw this huge door that looked like it entered into the ground. I knew that I had been brought there because I had to enter the door. I got up, walked over to the door, stood in front of it,then kneeled down and prayed to the Lord Jesus for his help. Then I stood up and opened the door. The first thing that I saw were snakes all over the ground. I continued to walk foward and I looked and saw a man in front of me. I remember that he did not have a shirt on. He led me up this tunnel. Then he stopped and he looked at me and he began to question my faith. I spoke to him of Jesus and he just stood there without expression. Then he motioned me to look over at something. I looked over and there was a woman sitting on the ground unclothed and with an enticing look on her face. The dream/vision suddenly ended.
The next day as I pondered the dream I concluded that I received a warning. I was warned against an adulterous relationship. It is possible that in the future that the devil may try and use an opportune moment to tempt me. Now that I have been warned I will pay double the consequences for going into sin. Not only does scripture warn against adultery, but now I have been personally warned so I cannot plead ignorance. I do not want to know what the consequences could be. Who knows? Perhaps it could be the loss of my own soul. I am convinced that it is a dangerous thing to go into willful sin. Friendlyrose, I am sharing this with you because of my concern that in your confidence that you may overlook the necessity to heed to the Holy Spirits warnings throughout scripture.

With love in Christ, Daniel
 

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Posted by ECM (Member # 7097) on :
 
Hi friendlyrose.

I was raised in a church that believed you could lose it. The more I studied God's word, I came around to believing that you could not lose it. There are far too many verses to quote here. Some seem to suggest you can lose it, while others seem to suggest you can't. Like you, I believe that when Christ went to the cross, he bore ALL the sins of the world. That would include past, present and future. He only died once, so the sin factor has been dealt with. All our sins are covered by his blood. That, however (like you already said), is not a license to continue sinning. Indeed anyone who takes it that way, probably has not been reborn spiritually. Our new nature--our "recreated spirit"--does not want to sin; but we still live in a flesh body. The flesh still has less than holy cravings, and it's weak. That's why Jesus warned Peter to pray because Peter was about to be greatly tested and needed to be strengthened. We all need to be strengthened. Does anyone after coming to Christ live a totally sin-free life? I think not. We all have moments of weakness. And when we get caught in them, we need to confess it to God and move on, trusting in him. We are not righteous in ourselves but God imputed his righteousness to us because of our faith.

I like John 3:35-36: "The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." We who believe in Jesus and have accepted him as our Savior have eternal life. Not will have; we have it now. How can it be eternal if we can lose it?

I'm not really sure about your question. I go back and forth on it myself, but I lean toward not being able to lose it. I would elaborate more, but I have to fix dinner. Maybe later.

Esther
 

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Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."(Rom 6:23)

You say that the blood covers it. Scripture says that the wages of sin - is death. If the blood covers it, it is not death. This would be a contradiction.

Consider this:

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

When someone sins, death is the result. It is lika a little sarcoma on them. When they repent, the blood washes. I don't believe that anybody that endures the cycle of sinning and repenting will lose his soul because they are repenting. That shows fear of Him. Someone who is complacent about sinning though is in real danger. They are not overcoming. They are being overcome. Eventually their heart can become cold until it cannot be rethawed.

But concerning someone's not being saved if they are out there like that, I know that Brother David feels that it is a case that they never were saved. Evidently others feel that way. I feel like more people don't feel that way. Maybe one could look at it like this, that they weren't saved enough! I know that sounds strange and debatable, but some things are not easily expressed in black and white, just like that. I think that 'not saved enough' works because of some scriptures such as the parable of the talents, and more. Yet it sounds strange. Are you saved, or are you not. The best thing is not to take anything for granted. That is easy to see the logic in. when you have put your hand to the plow, don't look back.
 

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Posted by friendlyrose (Member # 6608) on :
 
Hello all,
I enjoyed the responses.
I will address a few things now while I have my mind on them.

I would really like to know from one who believes that you can lose your salvation their point of view on what causes them to lose it? Is it repetitive sin, or choosing not to believe anymore or both? And when do u think it is necessary to pray for salvation again or if just confession after backsliding? Some verses seem to say that you cannot be saved again if you fall away, that it's impossible to renew them again to repentance. I heard someone say once that they were backsliding and knew that they were going to hell if they died in that state. But they eventually came around, which I do believe the Holy Spirit will continue to convict His own of sin and draw them towards repentance.
I don't think those that believe in once saved always saved think that they can just sin as much as they want or not heed the warnings of God. I think they just like having the assurance of salvation and confidence in Jesus's finished work on the cross. Does Jesus really want us to always be in doubt over our salvation and whether we will make it? I've never heard of that before, but of course we shouldn't be complacent and think being a Christian doesn't cost us anything either. So many people I know who consider themselves Christian are the most immoral people ever who have no respect for the law or God's law and think they can lie, cheat, steal, do whatever and then think that because they go to church regularly or watch a few christian tv shows that they are born again. It is shocking to say the least! They are like those in Jude who have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. They like to use there is freedom in Christ, yes freedom not to have to be legalistic but not freedom to sin. A true christian will have guilt confess and repent. I've also had nonchristian friends who lived more moral lives.
This is a separate issue entirely, but I feel like I know the world is supposed to hate me because I'm a Christian, but are Christians supposed to treat you bad too for no reason? No, they are not, but why are so many? It either means they are not Christian or that God likes to heap persecution upon persecution on me. It is sad. That's why I look forward to the rapture and being with Jesus and having true fellowship in heaven and hopefully having some on earth until then.
Anyway, yes like you Esther, I have always been taught that Jesus's death and resurrection covers all our sins. Why would they cover only some up to a point and then is it on a trial basis? Only if you confess, then are you forgiven, like a conditional thing? I mean, I know that is what we are supposed to do, but what if you forget some in your lifetime?
I think that these two verses are saying that all of our sins are forgiven, there may be more too. What do you think these mean , becauseHelives? Hebrews 10:10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. and
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
Is that what propitiation means? It says somewhere that He is the propritiation of our sins. We are forgiven when we are justified, then we are continually being sanctified, until we are glorified.
The problem I have is that some verses do seem to have a contradiction, so they need to fit together somehow. It really bothers me to think that when Jesus says He will never leave me or forsake me, that there is a possibility that He will? That is very scary. He obviously doesn't go back on His word, so what do you make of that verse?
Oh and Michael,I wasn't sure what you were getting at. There was a death Jesus died for our sins.
 

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Posted by ECM (Member # 7097) on :
 
The wages of sin is death. That's why Jesus died. He paid the death penalty for us. I find it hard to believe that once a person has been born into God's family, he/she can be unborn. It can't be done in a physical family; I rather doubt it can be done in the spiritual family. I admit I am not certain about the once saved-always saved position. But I don't worry about it personally because I know I have been reborn and have an ongoing relationship with my Lord and Savior. When I sin I do not believe I lose my salvation and have to be saved again. I am still God's child although my fellowship with him has been broken and I need to confess it and be forgiven to have that fellowship restored.

Initially we were all born spiritually dead as sinners. Hence the need to be reborn. Once reborn we have a new foundation to build on and we will be rewarded (not saved--that's an unearned gift; only the reward is earned) according to how we build on it. It's possible to lose all rewards and still be received into heaven as though through fire (1 Cor. 3:12-15).

However, I do not believe everyone who claims to be a Christian is in fact a Christian. And I do not believe we can know for certain another person's standing with God. (We can know our own standing with him but not necessarily someone else's standing, although the "fruit" of one's life is a good indication.) I tend to see a parallel between the physical (P) and the spiritual (S). I'll try to explain it:

P: A child is conceived in the womb.
S: Faith is conceived in the heart.
P: The child begins to grow.
S: Faith begins to grow.
P: The child is alive but not yet born.
S: Faith is alive but not yet born.
P: There's a process going on but it's volnerable to its environment.
S: There's a process going on but it's volnerable to its environment.

There are several possible outcomes for both the P and the S.

P: (1) The child develops organs and limbs in a normal, healthy manner; and when he/she is ready for birth, the child is born alive and healthy. (2) The child develops defective organs or limbs; and when he/she is ready for birth, the child is born alive but with problems. (3) The child stops developing altogether in the womb and is miscarried or comes to term but is still born.

S: (1) Faith joins understanding and begins to root. It seeks knowledge and grows, maturing to a healthy, full-blown birth. (2) Faith lacks understanding and gets lost or stolen--aborted. (3) Faith is not nutured and therefore short-lived--miscarried. (4) Faith is choked to death by worries and cares of this life--still born.

Of course, we hope for the first scenario in both cases; but it doesn't always happen that way. In the S case, while there was a form of spiritual life for awhile, it never reached the point of birth. The birthing takes place when the heart hosting the faith surrenders itself to the Lord and makes a faith commitment.

I don't know if I explained my position well enough. But I believe it takes more than a surface belief to be born into God's family. (Even demons believe.) The planted seed, although a form of spiritual life, doesn't alway mature to a spiritual birth. It takes a committed belief born of love for God to be born again.

Esther
 

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Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
Faith in Jesus delivers from sin, and delivers one into Heaven. If you are sinning, you are not having faith. You are embracing the pleasures of this life. The pleasures of this life do not save. Then what do they do?

What oneinchrist said in his post, he said well about where you should focus. If you are worrying about hades, you probably are not focused where you should be; that would be on Him, and the fact of His word. Praise Him and keep on keeping on.

But the truth is that if you sink into darkness, you are still tied to Him by a thread. The cost of it's breaking should be apparent, and chastening. Moreover, look at what your testimony does to unbelievers when you are in this condition.

Does His word not say that we are accountable? This is so that we will yield to Him that His will be done. There can be no fruit otherwise. And no fruit means, well..... You want to yield fruit to perfection, because you are laying up treasure in heaven.


I think that once saved always saved is only an issue when you take it for granted. Many people will, and they will take license to promote what God is not promoting. This is why Peter talked about "blemishes."

2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

When you put your hand to the plow, you should plow on to holiness. These blemished souls failed unto this. Makes em doubtful concerning making it all the way.

There is chastening to keep us aiming for the straight and narrow way. Those who do not find it, may lose their gift. ?

|After all, some virgins let their lamps run dry, no doubt not being focused where was important.

Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

What does oil represent? The Holy Spirit. If your lamp runs out of oil, you don't burn.
 

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Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 

quote:

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I don't know if I explained my position well enough. But I believe it takes more than a surface belief to be born into God's family. (Even demons believe.) The planted seed, although a form of spiritual life, doesn't alway mature to a spiritual birth. It takes a committed belief born of love for God to be born again.

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This is why we are to persevere! But we must beleive. That is where He meets us.
 

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Posted by ECM (Member # 7097) on :
 
I am in agreement with most of what you say. My point is that even people who have been born of the spirit of God sometimes have moments of weakness (a polite way of saying "fall into sin") and that I do not believe they lose their salvation for having done so. Christians do not want to sin and they are quick to repent when they do. They are God's children. They love him and want to have a good relationship with him. They fall into sin when they allow their circumstances to distract them. When you take your eyes off the Lord and focus on your circumstances, you become vulnerable to all kinds of pitfalls. As we mature in Christ, we tend to stay more focused on him. But is anyone so mature that he/she NEVER stumbles?

Esther
 

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Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
It is not at all about never stumbling. But how far away can one follow a temptation? Do you think that a Christian cannot mess up to the extent that they go down with alcohol, drugs, pursuit of greenbacks, an adulterous relationship, or whatever. They reach a point where they have little desire to repent. It can be fatal. I'll use this disclaimer that He is able to keep them, even such takes place. However, there is something called the 'mystery of iniquity'. I know that some people have died on the wrong side of judgment. I cannot say that they 'didn't' know Him before they took a dive.


What I explained is that when one takes their eyes off of Him and loved the darkness
 

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Posted by Isaiah (Member # 6699) on :
 
First -define saved.

Salvation -the fruition thereof -according to the bible -is to be without sin and immortal. Until I do not sin (truly), and until my vile body has been changed to be like Christ's glorious body, I AM NOT YET "SAVED" and can still fall!!!!

The bible says we are "saved" at baptism, but this is not to say that because we are baptised we cannot fall away and reject God. Likewise, this is not to say God does not know who will do what. Baptism is not the same as receiving salvation, though it is as good as such as long as certain conditions are met. You cannot expect to sin whenever you want after baptism and receive eternal life, but you can expect to receive eternal life if you do what God says to do -baptism being one part of that. God might know what we will do, but if we rest assured, we will not fare well -but must make our calling sure!

We should live each day knowing that we can still CHOOSE DEATH and live as if we take that peril seriously.

None can snatch any out of God's hand, but he can let us go if we sin against him! He may know -but we do not -we can not cease to do well!

The word "saved" is used quite a bit in the bible -but not always referring to the same thing -saved from death, saved from the flood, saved out of egypt, etc... but in all these cases, the people are afterward in a different situation -having been saved out of the previous.

When we are baptised, God has cleansed the vessel in which he intends to put his spirit, and if one has truly repented and God is indeed willing -he does so -then one is "saved" from being wihtout his spirit -from being without the means to BEGIN TO truly overcome sin and truly understand the things of God.

However, after this, it is possible that some WILFULLY -with malicious intent -not simply weakness or the like -reject God.

Those will NOT be "SAVED" as long as the condition exists -and only God knows who can not be renewed again to repentance. They will NOT receive eternal life in a rebellious state!

Again -God may know, but this means little to us! If we get complacent -we are in danger. We don't know what God knows about us!!!! -all we know is that we need to be redeeming all the time we wasted as sinners by striving with everything we have (and also being wise about it -not wearing ourselves out ....
Ecclesiastes 7:16
Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?)

As for the rapture of the worthy... this is not what I have read. I have read that there will be a first resurrection -the resurrection of the "FIRST"FRUITS -at the last trump -the dead in Christ will rise first -the living in Christ will be caught up with them, be changed and rule on earth, etc... this will leave some living -not in Christ -ON EARTH -as men. This is when one will be taken and one left, etc... Some living on earth will live on into the millenium, but the rest of the dead will not live again until after the thousand years. Then will be the 'great white throne' judgment -which is when many will also receive life! (though some will be cast into the lake of fire)

Revelation 5:10
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."

Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Ezekiel 34:25
And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.

YAYYYYYYYYYYYYY
 

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Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
Jesus' life saves you. If you have not His life, you have not salvation, but rather a concept. Concept doesn't save, and overcoming is of the Lord. You cannot do it on your own.
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 
I am a Overcomer born again of God, graffed in and SEALED until the day of REDEMTION.


For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 

quote:

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I am a Overcomer born again of God, graffed in and SEALED until the day of REDEMTION.

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quote:

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For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption

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quote:

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He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels

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