This is topic Is Jesus' body and blood in the Catholic Eucharist? in forum Exposing False Teaching at Christian Message Boards.
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Posted by afisherofman (Member # 6899) on
I invite anyone to give me some biblical advice when you get a chance. I am currently in a conversation with a Catholic.
the subject is communion...Catholics believe in the Holy Eucharist which represents the body and blood of Jesus Christ, which I do not anymore since leaving the Catholic church
Here is one of his statements
quote:Is there a biblical reference where one can clearly see this is not the case?
"When [Christ] gave the bread he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my body,’ but, ‘This is my body.’ In the same way, when he gave the cup of his blood he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my blood,’ but, ‘This is my blood’; for he wanted us to look upon the [Eucharistic elements] after their reception of grace and the coming of the Holy Spirit not according to their nature, but receive them as they are, the body and blood of our Lord. We ought . . . not regard [the elements] merely as bread and cup, but as the body and blood of the Lord, into which they were transformed by the descent of the Holy Spirit"
Posted by lonlesol (Member # 4511) on
I am not sure if this will help, but here goes...
Question: What do Catholics believe they are receiving when they come to Holy Communion?
Answer: We believe that we are receiving the very Body and Blood of Christ Himself. At the Last Supper Jesus said, "This is my body which is given for you" and offering His disciples the cup of wine said, "Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins." (See Luke 22 and Matthew 26). In the Gospel of John we read: "Jesus said to them, 'Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.'" (John 6:53-56)
Frequently Asked Questions About Communion
There is one thing that they seem to forget from the Scripture...and it is:
''And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you;
do this in remembrance of me."
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.''...Luke 22:17-20
The phrase: do this in remembrance of me."
does not mean that it will always be Jesus' actual body and blood each and every time, or Jesus would have said so...it simply means that it is done in remembrance of Jesus when we eat the bread and drink the juice...it is as simple as that...
As it is mentionned below, they even call it a 'host'...not the actual Body and Blood of Jesus...which means they actually contradict themselves!...
quote:The answer that was given to this question on that web site makes no sense to me!...
Q. Can I take the host directly from the priest or minister before it is placed in my hand?
A. No. The Eucharist is God's great gift to us and like all gifts it is something that we receive, not something that we reach out and take.
When we share communion at the Christian Church where I go, we each take a piece of bread (representing Jesus Christ's Body that is in the plate presented to each of us...same thing with the grape juice which represents His Blood...
God gives us His Son as a Gift, He DESIRES us to take His Son, this is very true...so aren't we to take this Gift (even grab and run with it as our very lives depend on it as fast as possible!) rather than wait for Jesus to be given to us???...Why would I have to wait for a priest to give me the host???...
I apologize for my choice of raw words...I hope people will understand what I am trying to say...
When I share communion at Church, I do however take the bread and juice respectfully and humbly in remembrance of Jesus' Body and Blood but not as if they actually were...
Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on
Here's what I found on this topic. Hope it helps.
(Communion, Eucharist, Sacrament)
What is the significance of the Lord's Supper?
BIBLE READING: Matthew 26:17-30
KEY BIBLE VERSE: As they were eating, Jesus took a loaf of bread and asked God's blessing on it. Then he broke it in pieces and gave it to the disciples, saying, "Take it and eat it, for this is my body." And he took a cup of wine and gave thanks to God for it. He gave it to them and said, "Each of you drink from it, for this is my blood, which seals the covenant between God and his people. It is poured out to forgive the sins of many." (Matthew 26:26-28)
The Lord's Supper has many important dimensions. Each name we use for this sacrament brings out a different dimension to it. It is the Lord's Supper because it commemorates the Passover meal Jesus ate with his disciples; it is the Eucharist (thanksgiving) because in it we thank God for Christ's work for us; it is Communion because through it we commune with God and with other believers. As we eat the bread and drink the wine, we should be quietly reflective as we recall Jesus' death and his promise to come again, grateful for God's wonderful gift to us, and joyful as we meet with Christ and the body of believers.
BIBLE READING: 1 Cor. 11:17-34
KEY BIBLE VERSFE: Every time you eat this bread and drink this cup, you are announcing the Lord's death until he comes again. (1 Cor. 11:26)
The Lord's Supper reminds us that Christ died for us. The Lord's Supper (1 Cor. 11:20) is a visible representation of the Good News of the death of Christ for our sins. It reminds us of Christ's death and the glorious hope of his return. Our participation in it strengthens our faith through fellowship with Christ and with other believers.
The Lord's Supper is a spiritual meal. When the Lord's Supper was celebrated in the early church, it included a feast or fellowship meal followed by the celebration of Communion. In the church in Corinth, the fellowship meal had become a time when some ate and drank excessively while others went hungry. There was little sharing and caring. This certainly did not demonstrate the unity and love that should characterize the church, nor was it a preparation for Communion. Paul condemned these actions and reminded the church of the real purpose of the Lord's Supper.
The Lord's Supper has a variety of meanings within the church. The early church remembered that Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper on the night of the Passover meal (Luke 22:13-20). Just as Passover celebrated deliverance from slavery in Egypt, so the Lord's Supper celebrates deliverance from sin by Christ's death.
Christians pose several different possibilities for what Christ meant when he said, "This is my body." (1) Some believe that the wine and bread actually become Christ's physical blood and body. (2) Others believe that the bread and wine remain unchanged, but Christ is spiritually present with the bread and wine. (3) Still others believe that the bread and wine symbolize Christ's body and blood. Christians generally agree, however, that participating in the Lord's Supper is an important element in the Christian faith and that Christ's presence, however we understand it, strengthens us spiritually.
The Lord's Supper commemorates the New Covenant. What is this New Covenant? In the Old Covenant, people could approach God only through the priests and the sacrificial system. Jesus' death on the cross ushered in the New Covenant or agreement between God and us. Now all people can personally approach God and communicate with him. The people of Israel first entered into this agreement after their exodus from Egypt (Exodus 24), and it was designed to point to the day when Jesus Christ would come. The New Covenant completes the Old Covenant, fulfilling everything the old covenant looked forward to (see Jeremiah 31:31-34). Eating the bread and drinking the cup shows that we are remembering Christ's death for us and renewing our commitment to serve him.
The Lord's Supper is remembering. Jesus said, "Do this in remembrance of me." How do we remember Christ in the Lord's Supper? By thinking about what he did and why he did it. If the Lord's Supper becomes just a ritual or a pious habit, it no longer remembers Christ, and it loses its significance.
The Lord's Supper is a holy act. Paul gives specific instructions on how the Lord's Supper should be observed. (1) We should take the Lord's Supper thoughtfully, because we are proclaiming that Christ died for our sins (1 Cor. 11:26). (2) We should take it worthily, with due reverence and respect (1 Cor. 11:27). (3) We should examine ourselves for any unconfessed sin or resentful attitude (1 Cor. 1:28). We are to be properly prepared, based on our belief in and love for Christ. (4) We should be considerate of others (1 Cor. 1:33), waiting until everyone is there and then eating in an orderly and unified manner.
The Lord's Supper is not to be taken lightly. When Paul said that no one should take the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner, he was speaking to the church members who were rushing into it without thinking of its meaning. Those who did so were "guilty of sinning against the body and the blood of the Lord." Instead of honoring his sacrifice, they were sharing in the guilt of those who crucified Christ. In reality, no one is worthy to take the Lord's Supper. We are all sinners saved by grace. This is why we should prepare ourselves for Communion through healthy introspection, confession of sin, and resolution of differences with others. These actions remove the barriers that affect our relationship with Christ and with other believers. Awareness of your sin should not keep you away from Communion but should drive you to participate in it.
—Handbook of Bible Application
Posted by lonlesol (Member # 4511) on
Great post, Carol...
And may I add...
Jesus Has Given Us Everlasting Life through His Own Flesh and Blood
The Church keeps two sacraments commanded by Jesus. One is baptism, and the other is Holy Communion. We take part in Communion to ruminate on the gospel of Truth revealed through its bread and wine, in remembrance of this gospel.
In the rite of Holy Communion, we eat the bread in remembrance of the flesh of Jesus, and drink the wine as the ceremony of His blood. As such, the real meaning of Holy Communion is to strengthen our faith in the Truth that Jesus has saved us from the sins of the world and given us everlasting life through His baptism and His death on the Cross.
However, the problem is that almost all Christians take part in Holy Communion only formally, without even realizing what Jesus meant by the phrase, "My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed"(John 6:55). Therefore, within the gospel of the water and the Spirit, we need to once again focus on the meaning of Jesus' commandment to eat His flesh and drink His blood, and believe in it.
Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on
I hope this helps...
everything about Roman Catholicism is straight out of Pagan Religion, and thats a fact....all the symbol, all the ritual, all the clothing... everything
Posted by afisherofman (Member # 6899) on
thank you all,
Your replies most definitely helped.
Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on
This is a great resource for dealing with Roman Catholics:
THE FUTILE FAITH OF SOME CATHOLICS
Do you fully rely by faith on the Lord Jesus for your salvation? I’m not asking you if you believe in Jesus in a vague and general way, but whether or not you trust him with all your heart to get you to heaven.
If you were brought up in the Catholic religion, you have been told at confession to make satisfaction for sins by doing penance, such as prayer and fasting. You were also taught to merit grace by doing good works.
You believe in Jesus, and yet, if you follow the official teaching of the Catholic Church, you don’t fully trust him with the salvation of your soul. The focus of your heart is shifted from Christ and his cross to self and your deeds. You must make satisfaction; you must merit grace; you must add works to your faith in Christ for your final justification.
My friend, I am constrained to forewarn you that such faith cannot justify you before God. I say it again, on the authority of the divine Word: if you attempt to add works to faith for justification, Christ is of no value to you. Listen carefully to what the Bible says:
"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5 NKJV).
And again, read the same scripture in a Catholic version:
"But when one does not work, yet believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness." (NAB).
Whose faith, according to the inspired Scripture, is credited as righteousness? Is it the faith of him that believes and works? Or of him who believes and does not work? Are you attempting to be justified by faith apart from works, or by faith and works combined?
The apostle is not excluding works as the fruit or purpose of salvation. Elsewhere he is adamant on the absolute necessity of works, godliness and love in the Christian life.
But in this context he is speaking on a different matter, on how God justifies the ungodly. He speaks of righteousness "accounted" or "credited" to the sinner that believes in Christ. Paul tells how the legal debt is crossed out and instead God writes "Righteous by Faith" on the believer’s account.
Paul will not allow us to miss the point. The Protestant motto "faith alone" is definitely feeble in comparison to the powerful apostolic statement: "him who does not work but believes"! The Bible does not merely say "faith alone" but it positively excludes works altogether for justification. Indeed the Spirit defines justifying faith by contrasting it to works. He rightly believes in God who makes no attempt to present his personal works for justification.
What about the person who both works and believes in Christ? Can he be justified also? As much as I wish to give a positive answer, I would be deceitful if I do. No, sadly, the person who attempts to be right with God by faith and the merits of his works will most certainly fail. There aren’t two ways to God; there aren’t two contradictory gospels – one that excludes works and the other that includes them. There is but one gospel: the justification of whoever does not work but believes.
Add one grain of works to your faith, and it is no longer the faith that justifies but a futile and demonic counterfeit.
Dear friend, are you justified by faith; are you at peace with God? Are you convinced that a fatal heart attack will usher you straight to the glory of heaven? If you are doubtful and uncertain, it is because you are not grasping the cross of Christ. You cannot -- as long your hands are filled with "good works".
Throw them away! Discard your works-merit in the rubbish bin where they belong. Come empty-handed to Christ and hold fast to him as your only defense before the God's Law. If you do not work but believe on the Lord who justifies the ungodly, your faith will be accounted for righteousness. That’s a divine promise!
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Copyright Dr Joseph Mizzi
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Joe Mizzi, 2007
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