Christian Message Boards: Joyce Meyer

This is topic Joyce Meyer in forum Exposing False Teaching at Christian Message Boards.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=53;t=000026

Posted by Watcher (Member # 3589) on :

Trademark: Meyer is well known for her claims of being able to live a sinfree life. She parrots the atonement atrocities authored by Kenneth Copeland.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The cross wasn't enough, Jesus redeemed us in hell
"And you've got to really glean some things out of the Word of God to really get hold of what He [Jesus] did for you during those three days. Jesus said, 'It is finished.' And He meant the Old Covenant. The job He had to do was just getting started. He really did the job the three days and nights that He was in hell. That's where the job was done."

Joyce Meyer (What Happened from the Cross to The Throne? audio)

"He was pronounced guilty on the cross but He paid the price in hell."

Joyce Meyer (What Happened from the Cross to The Throne? audio)

"There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell"

Joyce Meyer ("The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make", 1991 pg. 3)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jesus was the first born again man
"God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, 'Let Him go.' Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus. He was resurrected from the dead -- the first born-again man"

Joyce Meyer ("The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make", 1991 pg. 36)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Above Reproach - testing their spirits
"The Bible can't even find any way to explain this. Not really. That's why you've got to get it by revelation. There are no words to explain what I'm telling you. I've got to just trust God that He's putting it into your spirit like He put it into mine."

Joyce Meyer (What Happened from the Cross to The Throne? audio)

Meyer says "that the changed lives are proof enough," that she's "anointed by God to do what I'm doing."

Joyce Meyer (Charisma, pg. 55)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sinfree!
"I'm going to tell you something folks, I didn't stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn't a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that's heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I'm righteous and I can't be righteous and be a sinner at the same time. All I was ever taught to say was, 'I'm a poor, miserable sinner.' I am not poor, I am not miserable and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I was and if I still am then Jesus died in vain. Amen?"

Joyce Meyer (What Happened from the Cross to The Throne? audio)

"I might as well go and smack Him right in the face if I'm going to go around and feel guilty and condemned. Every time you feel guilty and condemned it's just like slapping Him in the face and saying, You didn't do a good job. You didn't do a complete job. I'm an old rotten this and I'm an old rotten that."

Joyce Meyer (What Happened from the Cross to The Throne? audio)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Angels tell me what to say
"Now spirits don't have bodies, so we can't see them. Okay? There probably is, I believe there is, and I certainly hope there is several angels up here this morning that are preaching with me. I believe that right before I speak some anointed statement to you, that one of them bends over and says in my ear what I'm supposed to say to you."

Joyce Meyer (Witchcraft & Related Spirits (Part 1) - 2 A-27 Audiotape)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Research Links
http://www.discernment.org/Charismania/joyce.htm
http://www.pfo.org/preacher.htm

Posted by BORN AGAIN (Member # 5) on :

Through sister Joyce Myers, many people have been saved and also healed from emotional hurts.

God bless, [Cross]

BORN AGAIN

Posted by Watcher (Member # 3589) on :

Through Joyce Meyer have been led astray, and many have thrown good money away buying her and hers fancy cars and hugh fancy homes.

Joyce Meyer says GOD has made her rich

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...B?OpenDocument

Summary: From Fenton to fame
By Carolyn Tuft and Bill Smith
Post-Dispatch
11/13/2003

Tahnee Jones (left) and Betty Jones, pray at a Joyce Meyer's Life in the Word in Atlanta in August.
(Robert Cohen/P-D)

Joyce Meyer says God has made her rich.

Everything she has came from Him: the $10 million corporate jet, her husband's $107,000 silver-gray Mercedes sedan, her $2 million home and houses worth another $2 million for her four children -- all blessings, she says, straight from the hand of God.

It's been an amazing run, nothing short of a miracle, says Meyer, a one-time bookkeeper who heads one of the world's largest television ministries. Her Life in the Word organization expects to take in $95 million this year.

Just look around, she told reporters last month from behind her desk on the third floor of the ministry's corporate offices in Jefferson County.

``Here I am, an ex-housewife from Fenton, with a 12th-grade education,'' she said. ``How could anybody look at this and see anything other than God?''
In many ways, Joyce Meyer is an American Cinderella.

Describing herself as sexually abused when she was a girl and neglected and abandoned as a young wife, Meyer has remade herself into one of the nation's best-known and best-paid TV preachers. She has taken her ``prosperity through faith'' message to millions.

"If you stay in your faith, you are going to get paid,'' Meyer told an audience in Detroit in September. ``I'm living now in my reward."

Meyer, 60 and a grandmother, runs the ministry with her husband, Dave, and the couple's four children. All of the family, including the children's spouses, draw paychecks from the ministry.

But the way Meyer spends her ministry's money on herself and her family may violate federal law, legal and tax experts say. That law bars leaders of non-profits -- religious groups and other charities -- from privately benefiting from the tax-free money they raise.

Last month, Wall Watchers, a watchdog group that monitors the finances of large Christian groups, called on the Internal Revenue Service to investigate Meyer and six other TV preachers to find out whether their tax-exempt status should be revoked.

Meyer and her lawyer say she scrupulously abides by all federal laws.

Meyer's rise to prominence followed years of struggle. But by 1998, Charisma & Christian Life magazine was calling her ``America's most popular woman minister.''

Last year, Meyer was the keynote speaker at the Christian Coalition's Road to Victory tour, a gathering of some of the nation's most influential conservative leaders.

And today, her TV shows, regional conferences and fund raising from her Web site bring an average $8 million a month to her ministry. Of that, the ministry says it spends about 10 percent -- $880,000 a month -- on charitable works around the globe.

Her star has risen so high and so fast that it amazes even Meyer.

``Dave and I feel almost like, `Can this really be us?''` she said. ``We feel like we're the most blessed and honored people on the face of the Earth.''
Meyer's ministry stretches around the globe.

From a 15-minute St. Louis-area radio show in 1983, it has spread to virtually every corner of the civilized world, largely through the reach of satellite and cable transmissions and the Internet.

She says the ministry gets 15,000 letters a month from India alone.

In September, an Arabic language translation of her program began airing six times a day on the Life Channel network in the Middle East. Meyer hopes to use the network to bring the message of Christianity to 31 Islamic nations.

Meyer and her husband say the ministry has the potential to reach 2.5 billion people every weekday.

The couple's recent slogan, printed on posters in the ministry's headquarters and on banners at its conferences, sets out an ambitious goal for the future: ``Every nation, every city, every day.''

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If it was the Lord who indeed made her rich, then perhaps she should give a large portion of it to the poor and needy.

a few scriptures that came to mind:

you cannot serve God and riches:

Matt 6:24 - No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
-
-
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Mar 10:22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

Mar 10:23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

Mar 10:24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

Mar 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Quote:
``If you stay in your faith, you are going to get paid,''

well according to meyers I have no faith at all, becauseI am dirt poor. gimmie a break!
[Roll Eyes]

Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
Through sister Joyce Myers, many people have been saved and also healed from emotional hurts.

Amen - I love Joyce Meyer because her sermons are not only for everyone else, but she says they are for herself as well.

Posted by Watcher (Member # 3589) on :

Hisgrace, is okay to question one's teachings and see if they align up with scripture?

Joyce constantly nags at Christians to support her and her "ministry"- constantly!!
The Bible says that the issues of the heart will proceed out of the mouth. Where our treasure is, so will our heart be.
Joyce Meyers treasures the treasures of this world- she is blatant and boasting about this publicly! She has opened herself up to scrutiny of not only Christians, but the whole world. No one can have it both ways! We either serve mammon or God, and our beliefs in what we serve will be manifested for the whole world to see- even more for a "public figure".

Posted by Watcher (Member # 3589) on :

http://www.afcministry.com/Joyce_Meyers.htm

Concerning being born again and what is required to be saved we see Joyce Meyer teaching :

"Believe...what the Bible says."

That when Jesus was on the cross He did not stay dead but went to hell.

That Jesus went to hell in our place because that is where we deserved to go.

That God would do whatever it took to free His people.

That there is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth, meaning what Jesus did to make atonement for sins.

That a person must believe in their heart that Jesus took their place on the cross, He died spiritually, (implied) was separated from the Father, tormented by demons in hell, (1991-Edition) Jesus is the first born again man. (1991-Edition)

Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :

Watcher, although I am not an admirer of JM, she did publicly retract those statements she made and said she will no longer teach that.

She says she no longer believes or teaches that.Shalom

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

It does seem that if there is some visable measure of faith that can be seen by another, it would be the same for a Watchman Nee who spent his life in prison and in poverty for the Gospel as it is for a Joyce Meyer, doesn't it?

Somehow I would venture that it never would have occured to Nee to desire to stand on the pulpit as the most popular Bible teacher in America or to live in home equal in value to today's 2 million dollar home.

Do you think may that is why Jesus says when he comes his reward is with him?

James 5:1 ¶ Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.

3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.

5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain

8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

12 ¶ But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :

quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
Watcher, although I am not an admirer of JM, she did publicly retract those statements she made and said she will no longer teach that.
She says she no longer believes or teaches that.Shalom

Thanks for that yahsway. I knew I had seen that on the Board once before, and it must have come from you.

You see sites all over the internet talking about how Joyce Meyer said that Jesus went to Hell. As Christians, if she did indeed retract her statments, we should let it go and not mention it again.

God is LOVE [Cross]

Posted by BORN AGAIN (Member # 5) on :

HisGrace writes

quote:
Amen - I love Joyce Meyer because her sermons are not only for everyone else, but she says they are for herself as well.

And, most of the time I also am learning "by the seat of my pants" as the Holy Spirit and the Word of God teach me their applications to our current realities.

Joyce Myer and Benny Hinn are flying by the seat of their pants too (probably in first class, but after the pressure of putting on a "mega-event", it is good and deserving to "unwind in first class".

Also, these people are celebrities, like it or not, and if they go sit in coach...uh-uh-uh, cramped, no room to stretch out the preacher's legs after an exhausting weekend of hall renting and services...and God gave them more money than they ever needed, so that His Adopted Daughter could fly first class...heavenly... [zzzzzz]

God bless, [Cross]

BORN AGAIN

Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
Through sister Joyce Myers, many people have been saved and also healed from emotional hurts.

quote:
and God gave them more money than they ever needed, so that His Adopted Daughter could fly first class...heavenly..

I'm trying to figure out if you are for or agin' her BORN AGAIN???.

Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :

BA, you are so funny! Im with HisGrace, was that sarcasam or not. Your a hard guy to figure out sometimes, but we love ya just the same! [hug]

Posted by israel my beloved (Member # 4776) on :

BornAgain said:

quote:
Also, these people are celebrities, like it or not, and if they go sit in coach...uh-uh-uh, cramped, no room to stretch out the preacher's legs after an exhausting weekend of hall renting and services...and God gave them more money than they ever needed, so that His Adopted Daughter could fly first class...heavenly...

In the first place, as I understand, these two have their own planes, so why would they fly on a commercial flight??? Why would these two want to fly with mere man. And anyway BornAgain, what about all the other ADOPTED CHILDREN OF GOD that works way harder than these two, like physical labor, do they not deserve to fly first class, even tho they cannot afford it. Remember there is no respect of persons with God, one brother or sister is not better than another, so let's not make out that Meyers and Hinn are!!!

Posted by BORN AGAIN (Member # 5) on :

HisGrace writes to BORN AGAIN

quote:
I'm trying to figure out if you are for or agin' her BORN AGAIN???

I be "fur". I be "fur everybody."

God bless, [Cross]

BORN AGAIN

Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
HisGrace writes to BORN AGAIN
quote:
I'm trying to figure out if you are for or agin' her BORN AGAIN???
I be "fur". I be "fur everybody."

Ahhh - that's some good Christian lovin'! [thumbsup2]

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

quote:
I be "fur". I be "fur everybody.

If you be "fur" everybody,

you be "fur" Satan too!

me, am against apostates, heretics, deceivers, that call themselves Christians teachers or leaders, these people are of their Father Satan

Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on :

quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:

quote:
I be "fur". I be "fur everybody.
If you be "fur" everybody,

you be "fur" Satan too!

me, am against apostates, heretics, deceivers, that call themselves Christians teachers or leaders, these people are of their Father Satan

You'd better get out of here fast becauseHElives. There may be a chorus of kumbaya coming on at any moment. [Wink]

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

Amen Dale: Clearly Jesus was not for everyone:

John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Posted by refiman (Member # 4839) on :

Joyce Meyers...just another smart cookie who recognizes how to make a buck with Jesus. I have watched this woman on TV and I have to shake my head and wonder how she ever made it to the big time. Most of her speel is good, sound common sense stuff..nothing real deep here. A twist of the gospels filled in where needed and presto, she is a messenger of the Lord. The kids are in it too, you bet drawing big bucks and saving the world too! Glory be to His name! If I was David (husband of JM) I would be singing praises too while driving my 110K Mercedes down the highway, they would hear me from the rooftops. Just think of a match it would be if Joyce and Robert Tilton could get it together...how all the angels would rejoice at that union. I wonder if Tilton (the thousand dollar man) will ever come close to the boatload of money Joyce reels in every day. I always said get twenty million stupid people to buy your program and it's like a good day of bingo but millions of times over! If Joyce was mine I would have her grow her hair long and look more like a woman instead of a man in sheep's clothing. I wonder if I could refinance one of her two million dollar homes...I would only charge her 1 point!
Have a Great Day in the Lord!
The Refiman

Posted by BORN AGAIN (Member # 5) on :

becauseHElives writes to BORN AGAIN

quote:
If you be "fur" everybody,

you be "fur" Satan too!

No, "I be fur everybody" in the same sense that God is "fur everybody":

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I don't do Satan.

God bless, [Cross]

BORN AGAIN

Posted by WhiteEagle (Member # 3728) on :

Just an observation; are the people who are offended by Joyce Meyers and others who minister and happen to be rich from ministering more concerned about money than reaching souls for Christ?

It seems that the detractors of tele-evangelists, are "jealous". As poverty is looked upon as a Virtue by you people.

God blessed Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, He blessed Job, Solomon was the richest man ever, Joseph of Arimethea was not banned just because he was rich.

I guess I don't concentrate on how much money they make, but how many people are reached by the gospel.

Max Lucado is rich through all his book sales, yet he never sought wealth, God blessed him.

Posted by Lars7 (Member # 4911) on :

Yes and also the fact that there doctrine is in question....Well Copeland says this...and Joyce teaches that....and Joel does not teach on sin and repentence.....and on and on....and round and round we go......Paul spoke on this very thing....He said that he did not care how the Gospel was preached as long as Christ was first....Well last look Copeland preaches Jesus is the only way....same for Joyce and Joel....Jesus is the only way to Salvation...Proverbs says that a fool thinks he is heard for his much speaking...and looking at these and similar threads its the same people saying the same thing....But there is not one mention of the thousands if not millions that have come to Faith in Christ through all these people combined. Nope not one....I havent heard anyone picking on Rod Parsley in his trillion dollar new church....Nope!
Me....Im for anyone weather there rich beyond my wildest dreams or broke and destatute If there leading people to Jesus....then I say Amen.A false prophet is one that is leading people AWAY from Christ.....I just dont see these people leading people away from Him....For those people that continue on this path....you have your reward!

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :

"It seems that the detractors of tele-evangelists, are "jealous". As poverty is looked upon as a Virtue by you people."
------------------------------

I find this offensive. "You people" is a rude and prejudice comment to say the least.

Personaly, it is not about the money as much as it is about Preachers sugar-coating the Gospel to get more money. As far as Rod Parsly, I am not familiar with him. Having lived in Houston, I am familiar with Joel Osteen. I have said very little about Joyce, because I don't watch her show. I have seen Benny Hinn enough times to know the man makes me nervous. I have watched TBN with my mom enough to be able to see Paul Couch tell people to borrow money from their neighbors to plant seed money. My mom is a faithful viewer and even she was upset when a Preacher insulted a man who came up for prayer for not bringing seed money in his hand. The preacher went so far as to say that he was not praying for anyone without seed money.

To say that we are jealous of preachers who have money is a lie. I have always felt that preachers should live in a nice house. After all my sister who died was a preachers wife and her husband had to work an outside jobs in order to put a roof over their head. But, if her husband had started watering down the truth of the Gospel to get more money in the offering plate, he would have been a false prophet.

A false prophet is one that brings people to Church but does not bring them to the foot of the cross. How can there be true salvation, if the preacher does not preach about sin?
I am afraid our Churches are filled with people who will miss the rapture because they bought into prosperity preaching and not discipleship with Jesus. Yes, to many Churches today are being led by false Preachers, who are leading their people right to hell.
betty

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

Hi White Eagle: I wanted you to know that I am not against wealth of God's people having wealth. I am against wealth not being used to take care of God's people. I believe that there is much wealth in the Kingdom of God but today it is being directed into the hands of few that they can live in opulence at the expense of the many in the Kingdom and this is not God's way.

This is something that I wrote that explains why I am against what I am against. If you are interested in what I see as the real problem here with regard to money:

http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003518#000000

Posted by WhiteEagle (Member # 3728) on :

quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
"It seems that the detractors of tele-evangelists, are "jealous". As poverty is looked upon as a Virtue by you people."
------------------------------

I find this offensive. "You people" is a rude and prejudice comment to say the least.

Personaly, it is not about the money as much as it is about Preachers sugar-coating the Gospel to get more money. As far as Rod Parsly, I am not familiar with him. Having lived in Houston, I am familiar with Joel Osteen. I have said very little about Joyce, because I don't watch her show. I have seen Benny Hinn enough times to know the man makes me nervous. I have watched TBN with my mom enough to be able to see Paul Couch tell people to borrow money from their neighbors to plant seed money. My mom is a faithful viewer and even she was upset when a Preacher insulted a man who came up for prayer for not bringing seed money in his hand. The preacher went so far as to say that he was not praying for anyone without seed money.

To say that we are jealous of preachers who have money is a lie. I have always felt that preachers should live in a nice house. After all my sister who died was a preachers wife and her husband had to work an outside jobs in order to put a roof over their head. But, if her husband had started watering down the truth of the Gospel to get more money in the offering plate, he would have been a false prophet.

A false prophet is one that brings people to Church but does not bring them to the foot of the cross. How can there be true salvation, if the preacher does not preach about sin?
I am afraid our Churches are filled with people who will miss the rapture because they bought into prosperity preaching and not discipleship with Jesus. Yes, to many Churches today are being led by false Preachers, who are leading their people right to hell.
betty

In Maine saying "you People" is not an offensive type statement.

Perhaps in the South there are connatations to that phrase, I'm not aware of?

I agree with your ideas about what a preacher should be like. I think you are misunderstaning where some of them are coming from though.

I don't watch TBN, I used to watch Ken Copeland and Joyce Meyers when they were on other stations.
I do not watch TBN, because they do ask for money at all times, and I do not believe in giving to any group, unless I've decided to buy one of their tapes or books. I give to my local church and to groups locally like the Salvation Army.

Posted by WhiteEagle (Member # 3728) on :

quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Hi White Eagle: I wanted you to know that I am not against wealth of God's people having wealth. I am against wealth not being used to take care of God's people. I believe that there is much wealth in the Kingdom of God but today it is being directed into the hands of few that they can live in opulence at the expense of the many in the Kingdom and this is not God's way.

This is something that I wrote that explains why I am against what I am against. If you are interested in what I see as the real problem here with regard to money:

http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003518#000000

I read that link, and I agree with 90% of it.

I was surprised that you feel that tithing is not for the New Testament Christian. Actually I've found the Malachi 4 scripture to be highly relavant in my own life.

As Christians, as I think you pointed out, all our possessions belong to the Lord, all that we have, and we are to give all as best we can back to the Lord, not just a tithe. We are to give our money, talents, praise, self-sacrifice, burdens, and all worldy goods to his care and know He is the One who provided it all. In whom we live and breathe and have our being. [Razz]

Posted by J4Jesus (Member # 1367) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Watcher:
Hisgrace, is okay to question one's teachings and see if they align up with scripture?

Joyce constantly nags at Christians to support her and her "ministry"- constantly!!
The Bible says that the issues of the heart will proceed out of the mouth. Where our treasure is, so will our heart be.
Joyce Meyers treasures the treasures of this world- she is blatant and boasting about this publicly! She has opened herself up to scrutiny of not only Christians, but the whole world. No one can have it both ways! We either serve mammon or God, and our beliefs in what we serve will be manifested for the whole world to see- even more for a "public figure".

Hey man. You could be right there.

Posted by J4Jesus (Member # 1367) on :

quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Just an observation; are the people who are offended by Joyce Meyers and others who minister and happen to be rich from ministering more concerned about money than reaching souls for Christ?

It seems that the detractors of tele-evangelists, are "jealous". As poverty is looked upon as a Virtue by you people.

God blessed Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, He blessed Job, Solomon was the richest man ever, Joseph of Arimethea was not banned just because he was rich.

I guess I don't concentrate on how much money they make, but how many people are reached by the gospel.

Max Lucado is rich through all his book sales, yet he never sought wealth, God blessed him.

Hey but didn't Solomon give it all up, and Asked God for Wisdom instead of more money?

But lets say he was rich all his life(cause i don't know much about him right now), he was a King, he had to be, that was Old Testament Times, things were Sort of Different.

We should Storm a Joyce Meyer's convention and Tell the people the Truth.

Posted by WhiteEagle (Member # 3728) on :

quote:
Originally posted by J4Jesus:

quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Just an observation; are the people who are offended by Joyce Meyers and others who minister and happen to be rich from ministering more concerned about money than reaching souls for Christ?

It seems that the detractors of tele-evangelists, are "jealous". As poverty is looked upon as a Virtue by you people.

God blessed Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, He blessed Job, Solomon was the richest man ever, Joseph of Arimethea was not banned just because he was rich.

I guess I don't concentrate on how much money they make, but how many people are reached by the gospel.

Max Lucado is rich through all his book sales, yet he never sought wealth, God blessed him.
Hey but didn't Solomon give it all up, and Asked God for Wisdom instead of more money?

But lets say he was rich all his life(cause i don't know much about him right now), he was a King, he had to be, that was Old Testament Times, things were Sort of Different.

We should Storm a Joyce Meyer's convention and Tell the people the Truth.

1 Kings 3:5-14 Is the details of Solomon asking God for wisdom. He was newly made king of Israel.
He asked for wisdom and God honored his request and also gave him things he didn't ask for: riches and honour.

Unless someone here knows proof positive that Joyce Meyer is preaching the gospel, just to get rich, than we should be wise ourselves and be slow to cast judgement on her motives.

Posted by refiman (Member # 4839) on :

"You People" ? Really, how lame a comment. It's the money and the message these material evangelists are sending to everyone living a life of the mega rich and acting like Hollywood movie stars. Don't you understand how many millions are separated from Christ through this example of wealth lived by the Tiltons, Hinns, Roberts, Copelands and others. Looks to me they are bilking and milking and suckling all tetes from all walks of life who are stupid enough to send their money to them. Oh, I forgot Peter Poppoff and the other one with the cauliflower ears who just got smart and shaved his spotty beard. There are too many to mention. Joel Osteen earned his wealth by writing a book and set an example to all pastors by not drawing a salary from Lakewood Church. I am happy for Joel and his family who live in the big house and enjoy the privacy of a guarded and gated community. Yes, Joel may be "sugarcoating" but he gets the unsaved in the Lord's house and Joel's ministry takes it from there and usually hits a home run. I was sick going to church and hearing the preacher beat up the Christians every Sunday... furthermore that many preachers "assume" when a new face is in the audience they are some kind of heathen. Joel's approach is to tell people God loves them and they can truly change by asking Jesus to come into their hearts and be "born again". Your thoughts?

Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :

Most unbelievers I talk to say they know God loves them and do not believe since God loves them, that He would send them to hell. Of course we know God sends no one to hell, peoples choices get them there.

My point is, most of these people do not see any reason to "change" or be born again since God is Love, and some claim they are "good" people and believe that God loves their goodness and they believe they are not going to a hell because God loves them.

Yeshua showed His love by an action. It was His willingness to go to a cruel cross to die for our SINS.

You must preach that all are Sinners first, and yet while we were and are sinners, Yeshua died for us. He acted or showed this love for us by what He did.

Yes, God is love, but He is also Holy and just, and we must all come to the realization FIRST that we are Sinners in need of a Savior. Preachers need to get back to preaching about sin, and a real hell for those without Yeshua. This is the gospel. Our need for a Savior, not our need for self-esteem, more money, ect...

And the true change in a believers life is when that believer dies to self and the things of this world. Shalom

Posted by Watcher (Member # 3589) on :

http://www.rickross.com/reference/meyer/meyer13.html

The Meyer Family Compound

Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :

quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
You must preach that all are Sinners first, and yet while we were and are sinners, Yeshua died for us. He acted or showed this love for us by what He did.

Yes, God is love, but He is also Holy and just, and we must all come to the realization FIRST that we are Sinners in need of a Savior. Preachers need to get back to preaching about sin, and a real hell for those without Yeshua. This is the gospel. Our need for a Savior, not our need for self-esteem, more money, ect...

And the true change in a believers life is when that believer dies to self and the things of this world. Shalom

AMEN Sis!

Posted by BORN AGAIN (Member # 5) on :

helpforhomeschoolers writes

quote:
I believe that there is much wealth in the Kingdom of God but today it is being directed into the hands of few that they can live in opulence at the expense of the many in the Kingdom and this is not God's way.

Even if they wanted to get rid of all that money that is coming in, it would take a second entire ministry of its own just to disburse the money in a "Godly" way.

As for it "not being God's way for the money to be concentrated in the hands of a few", I would think that in Israel there were many poor people and a few rich and very rich property owners on the scale of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, et al. They were all "God's people", but even in Israel the money was NOT distributed equally or "in God's way".

God bless, [Cross]

BORN AGAIN

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :

BA,

I don't believe it is God's will for Benny Hinn to be staying in 25 thousand dollar a night hotels off the money from widows who do without medication and food to support his ministry.
betty

Posted by BORN AGAIN (Member # 5) on :

TEXASGRANDMA writes to BORN AGAIN

quote:
I don't believe it is God's will for Benny Hinn to be staying in 25 thousand dollar a night hotels off the money from widows who do without medication and food to support his ministry.

So what is he supposed to do with the money, just let it sit there and rot? The people are giving and continuing to give.

God bless, [Cross]

BORN AGAIN

Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :

I'm sure the Apostles lived in a complex just like Joyces' and stayed at the Finest and most expensive Inns and wore the very latest in Robes... [Roll Eyes]

Come on folks (those who defend these False Teachers)... This Can't Be Justified!

quote:
2 Peter 2
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

3And through covetousness (Greed) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

You Shall Know Them By Their Fruit!

These Mega-Wealthy "Super-Apostles" (as Paul would have probably called them) are appealing to people's Flesh and people are Flocking to them to have their itching ears scratched while these False Teachers FLEECE The Flock. These teachers have MORE then they need and yet they Cry out for Money Constantly... "Sew your Faith Seed - or..." It's Shameful

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :

My problem comes when a Preacher convinces someone if they send in money, they will get:

1. kids saved
2. healing
3. finacial secuity, etc.

betty

Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
These Mega-Wealthy "Super-Apostles" (as Paul would have probably called them) are appealing to people's Flesh and people are Flocking to them to have their itching ears scratched while these False Teachers FLEECE The Flock. These teachers have MORE then they need and yet they Cry out for Money Constantly... "Sew your Faith Seed - or..." It's Shameful

Here's the verse I was looking for earlier:

quote:
Romans 16:17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :

There actually are annoited ministers and God knows who they are. God also knows their hearts in the way that no human being on this earth could ever do.

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :

I do believe there are wonderful anointed ministers out there in local Churches. I would not send a dime to Benny Hinn or to anyone else that promises prosperity for sending seed money to them.
betty

Posted by BORN AGAIN (Member # 5) on :

SoftTouch writes

quote:
I'm sure the Apostles lived in a complex just like Joyces' and stayed at the Finest and most expensive Inns and wore the very latest in Robes...

The two time periods cannot be compared; in the 1st century A.D. there were perhaps 250 million people on the whole earth (in 1830 A.D., the population reached 1 billion for the first time).

Receiving that much money would thus never have been an issue in the 1st century A.D., but in modern time with 6 billion-plus people alive, and tens of thousands "giving and buying", a good preacher CAN end up rich, even when they did not intend it that way when they began to preach, it "so-o--o gradually evolved into this mega-thing, look how God has blessed"?

Malachi 3
10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall NOT destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, says the LORD of hosts.

Some preachers get blessed beyond measure; and what will ye if the fire be already kindled? Abraham was not just rich, but very rich, with much gold:

Genesis 13
2 And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.

God bless, [Cross]

BORN AGAIN

Posted by cici420 (Member # 4925) on :

A few months ago I was watching a lot of Christian tv. I watched one tv minister after another and they all talked about sending in your seed and they would pray for you. They were talking that if you sent in your seed your money would automatically increase and you would be so blessed.
They would show a couple who sent in money and then they received a big check in the mail.
I believe in tithing and I believe that God will bless you but not every Christian is intended to be wealthy. In fact I believe we are to live humbly and we are suppose to take care of the poor. Jesus was very fond of the poor.
I had to stop watching these ministers because they made me feel like I wasn't giving enough. They made me feel like I needed to take out a loan to sow my seed.
I stopped watching the well known ministers and only watch the low budget ministers and I feel so much better.
I even fasted and prayed about all this. Tithing and sowing my seed was making me crazy. After fasting it became so much clearer.
Sowing our seeds shouldn't make us feel miserable or inadequate we should give our money from the heart because it is all God's anyway.
Joyce Meyer and the rest of them have to answer to God. We can't judge and criticize them because then we would be sinning. [Cross]

Posted by WhiteEagle (Member # 3728) on :

quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
I do believe there are wonderful anointed ministers out there in local Churches. I would not send a dime to Benny Hinn or to anyone else that promises prosperity for sending seed money to them.
betty

I agree I wouldn't send money with the motive of hoping to get more money back, that is a sin no matter who you give it to.

We are to give out of a Love for God and to show Him our grateful heart and give joyfully and without expecting reward on earth.

Posted by wparr (Member # 891) on :

This morning as I was listening to Christian radio on the way to work, they had a preview of Joyce Meyer's teaching for later in the day.

She was going to be teaching on John 15.

She said that Jesus said "if you don'y bear fruit - you're pruned so that you do bear fruit. If you do bear fruit - you're prunned so that you bear more fruit. Whether you bear fruit or not you're prunned"

LIE
LIE
LIE
[Mad]

FALSE TEACHING
FALSE TEACHING
FALSE TEACHING
[mad2]

(John 15:2)
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

Jesus says if you don't bear fruit The Father
TAKES YOU AWAY, not pruned but taken away.

BIG BIG BIG DIFFERENCE.

What happens if He (The Father) takes a brach away?

(John 15:6)
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Major LIE

NOT and inspired anoited teaching of The Holy Spirit.

Posted by NoNameGirl (Member # 4962) on :

Maybe it's just me, but I listen to these preachers to get the message of the Lord. Period. If they ask for money, more power to the people who send it. However I believe that sowing a seed can be done in many more ways than just sending money to the preachers. Like I'm told in my recovery meetings "take what you need and leave the rest behind". But to sit there and pick each person apart, yeesh, that's exhausting all in itself!

And we must remember that even as preachers, they are still human. I for one do not take on the load of having to prepare a sermon to preach to others, so therefore I cannot judge the ones that do. Again, I take what I need and leave the rest behind.

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :

NoNameGirl,

The problem is that while you can watch and just take what is good, there are many people who do not know what is good and what is bad. They are easily deceived.
betty

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

quote:
Joyce Meyer and the rest of them have to answer to God. We can't judge and criticize them because then we would be sinning.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

1 Corinthians 6:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

THis things require us to judge. We can judge anything that does not align with his word. We have the word and the spirit and the mind of Christ with which to justly judge that which is contrary to the WORD, and not only is it prudent to do so it is commanded and not sin!

Posted by refiman (Member # 4839) on :

Joyce Meyers is wrong...her wealth did not come from the "hand of God" but the stupid people who are so naive and lame to send her money.
Brad Hoffman (refiman)

Posted by WhiteEagle (Member # 3728) on :

quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
This morning as I was listening to Christian radio on the way to work, they had a preview of Joyce Meyer's teaching for later in the day.

She was going to be teaching on John 15.

She said that Jesus said "if you don'y bear fruit - you're pruned so that you do bear fruit. If you do bear fruit - you're prunned so that you bear more fruit. Whether you bear fruit or not you're prunned"

LIE
LIE
LIE

FALSE TEACHING
FALSE TEACHING
FALSE TEACHING

(John 15:2)
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

Jesus says if you don't bear fruit The Father
TAKES YOU AWAY, not pruned but taken away.

BIG BIG BIG DIFFERENCE.

What happens if He (The Father) takes a brach away?

(John 15:6)
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Major LIE

NOT and inspired anoited teaching of The Holy Spirit.

Are you saying that you believe one can lose their Salvation?

I believe the Holy Spirit does prune us to get rid of the dross, the dead parts we have unconsciously kept after we are saved. Like an apple tree, one needs to take away the dead branches for the tree to sprout healthy branches.
After we are saved, we aren't "perfect". He who has begun a good work in you will continue to perforn it until the Day of Christ Jesus. He is the potter and we are the Clay. He molds us.

The other side of the casting away of dead branches is in regard to the Jews who rejected Him and their branches were NOT bearing fruit at that time, and Jesus was prophecying that the Jews would be cast away as the witnesses for God.
It also applies to us, if we were not really saved in the first place.

Don't be so quick to judge Joyce's teachings.

Posted by WhiteEagle (Member # 3728) on :

quote:
Originally posted by refiman:
Joyce Meyers is wrong...her wealth did not come from the "hand of God" but the stupid people who are so naive and lame to send her money.
Brad Hoffman (refiman)

NO! Scripture teaches us that all wealth, whether given to an evil person or a good person comes from God. God allows the rains on the evil and the good.

Don't deny the authority of God. IN the New Testament, one wise Pharisee made the statement, that if thing is not of God, it will not stand.

Posted by NoNameGirl (Member # 4962) on :

I think if one wants to expose a false teaching they need to reach the same crowd who heard that teaching, not a completely different set of people. Because the original group who heard the teaching is still going around believing that teaching. Maybe instead of exposing it here you could call the station Ms. Meyers was broadcast on...just a thought.

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :

This part of the board was open for this purpose, to expose false doctine. I honestly believe it serves a purpose. People who get most of their preaching from t.v. are more likely to be web surfers, too.
betty

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

quote:
NO! Scripture teaches us that all wealth, whether given to an evil person or a good person comes from God. God allows the rains on the evil and the good.

That is only part of the story and a rather stretched interpretation of that scripture.

The scripture teaches that God made the rich and the poor.

Proverbs 22:2 The rich and poor meet together: the LORD is the maker of them all.

The scripture teaches that God gives the POWER to get wealth that HE may establish his covenant.

Deuteronomy 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

Now you might say that God gives the power to the wicked to get wealth. But you must also say that the wealth of the wicked is laid up for the just...

Proverbs 13:22 A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children’s children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

So I would ask you is Joyce getting her money from the wicked or from the saints?

But the Bible says that it is the wealth of the sinner that is laid up for the just. So if Joyce's wealth is coming not from the sinner but from the saint what does that tell you about Joyce?

What does it tell you about the saints that are giving it?

The only time that God allows the saints to pay tribute is when they are in judgement. When the saint walks in the will of God and after his statutes God provides for the saint from the spoils that are taken out of the hand of the wicked.

But with Joyce, she is getting rich because the saints are being spoiled by her - this is judgment.

Proverbs 22:16 He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.

The church that does not endure sound doctrine and heaps to themselves teachers that feed their itching ears God is allowing to be spoiled by the enemy who is getting richer while the church gets poorer and those who are giving to the one to make them rich will come to want. I have no doubt about it.

Joyce Meyer is a shepherd that feeds her self from the flock, when she is supposed to be feeding the flock.

God will allow her to do this for a time; but he will not allow it forever and woe to her when he stops letting her do this if she does not repent first.

This scripture says that the world is blessed by the saints that do good unto our enemies:

Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

This says God has done good even for the wicked as Jesus died for the sins of Adam that were in the Just and the unjust.

CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT

A fig tree that produces poor or little fruit is pruned because it will make it to grow more fruit.

But the dead wood must be removed - cut all the way back to the trunk of the tree. A branch must be grafted in and that graft must take if the branch is to bear fruit.

Dead wood that clings to the trunk - the trunk bearing it, does not produce fruit. It is not enough that the tree bear us, but we must also bear the tree. The sap of the HOLY spirit must flow from the roots through the trunk to the branches if the branch is to bear fruit.

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

In context this speaks to a specific situation... boasting against the cut off branched, but it teaches an important precept.

The branches that were cut off were being born (carried by the root) but they did not have the root in them and thus they produced no fruit and were cut off.

Unlike Israel that was cut off for our sakes.... if we are cut off....we are in said trouble. So we best be sure that we not only are being held by the root, but that the ROOT and the HOLY SPirit is coursing through our branch. If it is we may undergo pruning, but we will not be cut off. If it is not we will be cut off and tossed into the fire. This is not a wild olive that we are growing in where the dead wood is allowed to remain, this is a cultivated oilve and the deadwood will be cut off.

And I absolutely believe in the eternal security of the born again child of God but we all better be able to see some fruit in our own selves or we better be calling out to God. We cant make our own fruit, it is a product of the indwelling HOLY Spirit and if the spirit is there there will be some fruit. We may need pruning... but there will be some fruit.

Posted by NoNameGirl (Member # 4962) on :

The scripture says the brach will be cut off and burnt in the fire. But has anyone here cut a branch from a tree? Does it not grow back to be cut again? I'm just trying to show that while yes, the branches that don't bear fruit will be cut and burned, there is still the ability for the branch to regrow. WIth that regrowth there is the possibility of that branch bearing fruit. Without this ability all non-believers would be cut from the tree and burnt in the fire. NO second chances?

However, we all know that God doesn't stop there in our lives. That He continues to extend His hand to us for us to one day bear fruit that is pleasing to Him.

It could just be me, but I know there was a point in my life that I didn't bear fruit. But that didn't mean God cut me off from Him and cast me into the fire. I had to be cut down in order to regrow within Him.

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

quote:
I'm just trying to show that while yes, the branches that don't bear fruit will be cut and burned, there is still the ability for the branch to regrow. WIth that regrowth there is the possibility of that branch bearing fruit.

Not so with the oilve tree God is tending. We are grafted into the cultivated tree CONTRARY TO NATURE.

Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Normally, when a branch is grafted into a rootstock - the fruit that is produced is the fruit of the branch.

I could take a root stock of a lemon and get lemons though the stock were something else. This is according to nature.

We are grafted in not according to nature, but contrary to nature.

We are branches from a wild olive. Wild olives grow fruit that is not fit to be eaten if they grow fruit at all and they are worthless to the production of oilve oil.

This is not however the fruit that we produce. We are grafted into a cultivated olive tree and we produce but not the fruit of our branch like in nature - HE produces in our branch cultivated good oilves full of oil and good for eating.

The tree does not sprout branches where the branches are cut off. This is where the branches that were cut off will be grafted back in if they believe.

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :

There comes a time when God will stop dealing with people. If God corrects a individual for false teaching and yet they do not heed God's warning, God will turn His back on this person.
This also is true for those who prefer to hear water downed Gospel, because they do not want to repent and turn from their sins.
Sad to say that there are some people who prefer to go to a Church that makes them feel more comfortable because they do not want to deal with their sins. This is not just ture about homosexuals, either. There are people who sit in Churches every Sunday who are having affairs.
When you shun a Church because you do not want to hear the truth, you can reach a point where God will turn you over to live your sinful life for the devil.
betty

Posted by JAVA (Member # 4576) on :

PLEASE CHECK THE MEYER$ POST I made regarding this.