Christian Message Boards: Evangelistic points made using myths

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Posted by Heavenstorm (Member # 5321) on :

It seems to be a popular idea on Christian TV lately to conclude that the unususually violent hurricane activity this year somehow indicates that God's wrath is upon the earth. I don't doubt that evangelists everywhere are using this message to convince people to repent or be judged by God.

I'm a bit skeptical on this one. In the Bible, when God performs a sign He is very specific about the message behind it. There is no doubt what that sign meant. A widespread natural disaster is somewhat vague because it effects both Christians and non-Christians alike. The hurricanes this year have effected more than one nation as well.

In fact I think it's premature to conclude that the unusually turbulent weather this year is unusual when compared to the history of the earth's climate over the last 50,000 years.

We have had a global view of the weather since the space age, which is very recent. Our understanding of climate is very young, and limited. Although we are advancing quickly in our ability to measure atmospheric phenomena I believe it will take many years before we can accurately intepret the data we measure.

Our land has not been populated to the density it has been in the past. It used to be that weather observation was limited to direct observation. So we only had a few scattered weather stations with scientists who would record thier measurements.

Since we haven't had measurements in the American South before European colonization we don't have a metorological record that goes back very far. And considering colonists were more concerned with raising crops and livestock than studying the climate I doubt we had very many weather stations then.

So is it reasonable to believe the weather is becoming unusually violent?

Based on studies of ice cores we have an idea of what temperatures were like over 220 thousand years ago. In this ice there are measurable differences in the composition over time that correlate to temperature changes.

Also gasses trapped in the cores indicate the presence of atmospheric composition such as greenhouse gasses.

Over this long time period we are able to correlate astronomical cycles with temperature changes. This is the geometry of the earth's orbit relative to the sun. We see 10,000 year cycles, 50,000 year cycles in climate hot and cold and so forth. Also the gas composition has changed over time. The atmosphere is constantly changing due to natural phenomena. Though there are cycles we can derive, it is not going to be exactly the same. The earth's orbital geometry changes, although gradually each year. The composition of greenhouse gasses was completely different before and after the ice ige.

So what is normal for the atmosphere? Make sure you aren't jumping to hasty doom and gloom myths based on lack of understanding. One day it may be debunked entirely.

I think we need to be careful of what we use to preach the message of salvation. If are wrong and then proven wrong that will send a clear message also, and it's not a good one.

I have heard some pretty cool stories that I have held on to that turned out to be urban legends. I've been convinced of other myths that are implausible and debunked by science.

What's your favorite Christian urban legend?

Posted by chaoschristian (Member # 5273) on :

quote:
I have heard some pretty cool stories that I have held on to that turned out to be urban legends. I've been convinced of other myths that are implausible and debunked by science.

What's your favorite Christian urban legend?

Creationism and Intelligent Design as viable alternatives to evolution theory. Both are implausible and both continue to be debunked by science.

Posted by Heavenstorm (Member # 5321) on :

Science is a process that looks at objective evidence. We take measurements then we perform tests using controls. Then we come to a conclusion.

Here's some objective evidence for creationism:

Reasons to Believe - Evidence for Design

Posted by Tennessee Elijah (Member # 5277) on :

The following was taken from a documented manuscript several years prior to recent events. If you are interested in evaluating the source, let me know.

"Tidal waves were washing over beaches along Gulf Coast states as they watched. There was tremendous damage being done from wind and rushing waters, washing sand inland, uprooting trees, and demolishing buildings. Paved highways were cracked and torn apart, preventing travelers from escaping crumbling communities except on foot. Hundreds of bridges were destroyed by floods."

Explaining anything that happens in the universe or on this planet -- as though God or Satan had nothing to do with it -- might not be accurate. We all respect "knowledge" if it is not in conflict with Truth.

Posted by Heavenstorm (Member # 5321) on :

I have no doubt that there are destructive natural phenomena that occur all over the planet. In order for life to exist on our planet there must be certain natural processes that take place to maintain a life supporting environment.

Part of this process involves meteorological cycles which can produce weather like hurricanes and tornadoes.

On other planets like Venus, or Jupiter the atmosphere is extremely turbulent and hostile all the time. Thier environment is not fine tuned like the environment of earth. It really is a miricle our weather is as mild as it is.

There is a design tradeoff that is taking place in an engineered system that we are seeing, where God is the creator and he wants his planet to support life within the constraints of the universe for a finite time. And sporadic unusually violent weather is what can expect to see.

If people happen to get in the way of these processes they find themselves in danger. Without these processes all life will die, or never have existed.

At least that's the best I've ever seen it explained.

I would expect a divine judgement to be very specific. I would expect there to be a clear prediction and a clear warning.

If one says, "A disaster is about to happen" is not specific enough.

But if one says, "God said that He hates the sin in New Orleans and he will destroy that city for this reason alone."

And shortly thereafter that prophecy comes true, I would expect that city to be destroyed exclusively while adjacent cities stand.

This is the way God has done it in the Bible, in fact in the story of Sodom and Gommorah, God was specific in describing the sin he hated.

In the case of Hurricane Katrina we see widespread destruction, and no specific indications that this is the judgement of God.

We do see a lack of preparation and engineering that caused unwarranted destruction.

I got to go

Chris

Posted by Heavenstorm (Member # 5321) on :

I was hoping to see more activity on this thread addressing mistakes Christians make when promoting or defending Christianity. I want to encourage readers to proliferate information to thier churches that will help leaders learn the difference between fact and fiction, good and bad arguments to use when witnessing or presenting materials that promote or defend the Gospel.

I want to examine some of those sources here as well.

I'm providing a link here to a website where urban legends are examined. I've actually heard some of these stories preached from the pulpit as fact.
I encourage you to read through the Religion section on this site. There's also a lot of really fun stories to read there.

www.snopes.com

Posted by Bat Elohim (Member # 3739) on :

there's another cool site called truthorfiction.com

Posted by Tennessee Elijah (Member # 5277) on :

August of 2004: "...If anyone reading this is experiencing similar harassment, please let the FCC authorities know. Until this current obstacle to my mission is resolved, I have no alternative other than to express myself in other ways if it becomes necessary. Is the sending of unsolicited water, unsolicited wind, and unsolicited fire in the form of a curse from God permitted -- or do I need to ask Microsoft for permission..."

August of 2005: The rest of the story is on my web site --
Tennessee Elijah

Posted by Lars7 (Member # 4911) on :

All the storms....hurricanes...Not from God!....Why you ask....Jesus forever changed the way that God deals with man.......God is not judging the believers sin for Jesus paid that in full...onetime PAYMENT.....God is not judging the unbelievers sin for the Holy Spirit is working to turn mens hearts towards God.....But rather the increase in the so called wicked weather....tsunamis....earthquakes are just nature groaning just as Jesus said it would.Just as a woman giving birth she starts out with contractions.....the closer the contractions get she gets closer to giving birth.....The earth in its fallen state is going through the very same thing....Romans 8 tells us that all of creation is waiting for this event!......God is not judging anyone or anyplace.