quote:The answer depends upon what standard of success that you apply to the movement. I don't think that numbers have ever been an important standard of success for any of God's operations. What standard would you apply to evaluate the Reformation?
So, has the Reformation movement failed?
quote:Are you then saying there is no substantial difference in the Church since Constantine legalized Christianity than before? Or are you indicating you believe it is better than it was then?
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
the Reformation movement has never been over for True Believers...True believers are never content with their knowledge of Yahweh or their relationship with Yahshua....True believers are always digging deeper and reaching higher...
quote:I am in full agreement
I am saying the Protestant Movement did not reform far enough
quote:I did not say the Protestant Movement was an aberration... I said it did not go far enough to reform from Catholicism. And that despite both Proestantism and Catholicism God managed to save the remnant (those he foreknew / predestined for salvation) all these years.
Originally posted by Betty Louise:
It was not a failure. Only God knows the number of people reached in the world by Missionaries taught from pulpits in America. Without the Protestant Movement, we would still believe that we could save our loved ones by paying for an expensive Mass after their death, or that we are saved because we were Baptized as an infant.
No it has not failed.
betty
quote:Please refresh my memory... what church denomination do you belong to?
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
John, There is ...was... and always will be "the True Church" that was born after Yahshua's death,burial and resurrection and the sending of the Holy Spirit....
quote:Unfortunately your church puts Jesus in the backseat when they pray to their false idols like Mary and the Saints, and believe in superstitions. And that 2% is what the Catholic church (finally) admits to, but it's not the real number. Just the fact that they would lie about it and move around Pedophile Priests for decades to try to cover it up (should) tell you something, unless you have blinders on like alot of you Catholics do. It's called denial my friend. Praying the rosary, rubbing your beads and confessing to man won't get you into Heaven. And yes it's been a huge success because were (Protestants) still here, several hundred years later. Your Catholic church tried in vain to destroy us, but couldn't. Lastly, there was never just one Protestant denomination. It's a movement, not a lone denomination. The more the merrier, thank's be 2 Jesus!
Originally posted by Ed Fisher:
crixus stated :
Regarding the Protestant Reformation. I suggest that all Christians take the time read Fox's Book of Martyrs. When you think back on all the sacrifices that our brothers and sisters made in the past, it's hard not to conclude that the Reformation has been a big success. Prior to that time Protestants lived in fear and couldn't practice their faith publicly. We all face some sort of persecution, but it's nothing compared to what our predecessors went through. And thank's to their sacrifices (and the blood of Jesus), we Protestants don't have to meet secretly or worry about being burned at the stake by Catholics anymore. We have it pretty easy in comparison and I am very thankful. Praise the Lord! *The church I go to (Calvary Chapel) has alot of Ex-Catholics attending. They finally got tired of all the lies & cover ups regarding Pedophile Priests, etc.
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Keepin' the faith!
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Greetings Friend:
You Stated that "Regarding the Protestant Reformation. I suggest that all Christians take the time read Fox's Book of Martyrs. When you think back on all the sacrifices that our brothers and sisters made in the past, it's hard not to conclude that the Reformation has been a big success."
How can you call it a big success when is over 33,000 different denominations worldwide and more in the process of startig up ?
You had mentioned something about Pedophile Priests.I did the math , only 2% of all Catholic Priest were convicted this discusting crime.
I use to attend Calavary Chapel ,I did not feel fulfilled there . I attend a Roman Catholic Church , I feel like I am back at home with Jesus.
(This article by Dr. George Bartoli, a former Roman Catholic scholar, was given to the Knox Club in 1910, but despite the time which has elapsed since it was given it brings before us the picture of a Church and system which does not and indeed cannot change without becoming something entirely different. Some dated material has been deleted. - Ed.)
quote:That number includes Catholics and others who are not Protestant.
How can you call it a big success when is over 33,000 different denominations worldwide and more in the process of startig up ?
quote:The Lord Rebuke you again....
Originally posted by bjhulk:
quote:Why don't read this? It will show you what Christianity is about and that it's not from God, even though he used this false religion to carry the scriptures to me 25 years ago. Now God is using those vocabulary words to inspire before he has me write and speak them. It's not the words that are the truth. He inspires them by arranging the words according to his knowledge, which is the truth. That's why the scriptures are no good for the truth unless God interprets them. All the words were changed by copying, translating and editing in lies and deleting out inspired words they didn't like. Not one person has ever been led to the truth through the scriptures.
Originally posted by WildB:
John 5
37: And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness to me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen;
38: and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent.
39: You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;
40: yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
God is who you need to make you sinless and receive his knowledge, which is the truth. Without the truth, it's impossible to interpret the scriptures. Jesus knew the Pharisees couldn't interpret them.
quote:Dude you need some serious Spiritual help.
Originally posted by bjhulk:
quote:You have no idea what being born again means. Not one Christian has ever been a chosen one of God's and become a born again sinless saint. You might as well toss your Bible into the fire because it isn't doing you any good. All it did was deceive you of the true God. You don't even know who you're talking to. That's how blind you are.
Originally posted by WildB:
Dude you need to be born again.
Romans 10:
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
This religion of yours has handy capped you Spiritually and impaired you mentally.
And I ashur you,
if you keep on trying to forwarded it here you will be banned by the owner.
quote:Not Biblical.
Originally posted by bjhulk:
quote:God doesn't need any help at all but you sure do. You're as blind as a door and deaf as a doorknob. You didn't even notice the door was locked.
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:Dude you need some serious Spiritual help.
Originally posted by bjhulk:
quote:You have no idea what being born again means. Not one Christian has ever been a chosen one of God's and become a born again sinless saint. You might as well toss your Bible into the fire because it isn't doing you any good. All it did was deceive you of the true God. You don't even know who you're talking to. That's how blind you are.
Originally posted by WildB:
Dude you need to be born again.
Romans 10:
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
This religion of yours has handy capped you Spiritually and impaired you mentally.
And I ashur you,
if you keep on trying to forwarded it here you will be banned by the owner.
quote:The only thing clearly seen here is your sillyness.
Originally posted by bjhulk:
quote:If you don't have the truth in you, you can't understand one verse and how it's applied to the whole story. The truth is the whole story and I can see clearly that you're totally lost without the story.
Not Biblical.
For Jesus said,
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.