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Posted by OlympicGold (Member # 4875) on :
 
Hey y'all,

I was listening to a Christian radio station and antheist posed the question and didn't have time to listen to the host's response.

He asked a question about if Adam was the first human and Eve was the second, who was it that witnessed this event? How was this event in the Bible if neither of them wrote it and nobody was there to witness it?

thanks!
K-
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
Moses heard it from a very reliable source, while camped up on Mt. Sinai.
 

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Posted by OlympicGold (Member # 4875) on :
 
Thanks for the input. I have not yet read the Old Testament so sorry if this seems like a silly question. If Adam and Eve were the two first humans created then his question was how can somebody write about this event if there was nobody else to account for it?

thanks!
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 
OlympicGold: Check your definitions of the word "witness" sometime.

"Witness" does not necessarily always refer to real-time verification or validation of an event as it occurs.

To witness merely means "to tell of" - it does not guarantee factual accuracy.

Let's say I'm fishing at my buddy's farm pond. I land a 3-1/2 pound grass catfish. I know my pal wants everyone to think he's got the coolest pond in the area, so I convince him that I've just landed a 65 pound catfish from his pond!!

My buddy (and 2 of his friends) then start running around town "witnessing" to my having landed a whopping 65 pound catfish on his property!!

I think this to be the source of your quandry.

Unfortunately, I think quite a few are mislead by not fully understanding how this works.
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 
btw - I most certainly will suggest that this (usage of "witness") is often intentionally mis-represented to create the faulty impression of divine creation having somehow been a real-time, verified and documented "proven" event.
 

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Posted by Thunderz7 (Member # 31) on :
 
Genesis 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Not only did Moses see the back of God;
God also showed Moses back to creation.

T7
 

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Posted by shadowmaker (Member # 3696) on :
 
If you actually listen to an atheist, they can be rather convincing and if youre not careful form some doubt in your mind.

I know most of them go by the Darwin theory or whatever his name is. Well, I have a question about that. IF we came from frogs or apes or whatever they say, WHERE ARE THE FOSSILS??? There is going to be a time when man was halfape and halfman or 1/4 & 3/4, so WHERE is the fossil of this?
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
God spoke, Moses wrote, and the personal testimony of the Creator is rather credible.

Exodus 24:
4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.

The factual accuracy of the Word is without question for those who believe. The faith of those who deny the Word is in question.


2 Peter 1:
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Tim. 3:
13: But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 

quote:

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If you actually listen to an atheist, they can be rather convincing and if youre not careful form some doubt in your mind.

I know most of them go by the Darwin theory or whatever his name is. Well, I have a question about that. IF we came from frogs or apes or whatever they say, WHERE ARE THE FOSSILS??? There is going to be a time when man was halfape and halfman or 1/4 & 3/4, so WHERE is the fossil of this?

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Wandering a bit off-topic,but what you're referring to are transitional fossils and yes, there are numerous examples.

Probably the biggest (silliest, even) misconception with this, is that somehow a fossil will magically transform before one's very own eyes to reveal it "changing" from one form to another.

That's not how it works.

Each fossil is a unique, one-time occurring event that is a witness(!), in a sense to life conditions very long ago.

Compiled fossil evidence of early hominid forms demonstrates the slow, gradual transition to the form of "modern man" homo sapiens. Man did not evolve from monkeys - evolutionary science makes no such claim.

Understanding this in no way qualifies a person as being an "atheist", btw
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Caretaker:
[QB] God spoke, Moses wrote, and the personal testimony of the Creator is rather credible.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Caretaker:
Quote from EL3LN3TN:
No problem, but what the original topic post was referring to was misleading usage of the word "witness", as if to imply the creation events had somehow been verified and recorded, in real-time, as they happened.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Not exactly.

The original question:

He asked a question about if Adam was the first human and Eve was the second, who was it that witnessed this event? How was this event in the Bible if neither of them wrote it and nobody was there to witness it?

The answer is that the LORD GOD was there, and He testified of the event.

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Certainly - no problem. "testified" being pretty much the same as "Witness" (to "tell of" not necessarily direct, real-time observation) I gave earlier.
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Caretaker:
The testimony of the LORD GOD is far more truthful then those with an agenda attempting to turn a pig's tooth, or a few random or structurally deformed bones into a viable transitional hominid, in a vain attempt to substantiate theorm.

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oops First off - I think you mean objective not agenda? Funny how conservative commentary has blurred and misused this term over the last 15 or so years.

As far as "attempting to turn a pig's tooth, or a few random or structurally deformed bones into a viable transitional hominid, in a vain attempt to substantiate theorm." A GREAT DEAL of information can be gleaned from fragmentary evidence with high levels (altho less than 100%) accuracy, and scientific investigation techniques with allowances for error, correction and falsifiability will isolate & correct wrong conclusions, as was the case with the "pig's tooth" - if we're both thinking of the same incident- may hve to double check that one- it's a bit vague.

But then keep in mind the limitation of the fact that "millions of years of time" cannot be reproduced in a laboratory, and if you stop to think about - neither can "6000 years" - itself a petty immense span of time!
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
The agenda of secular science is to prove the theory of macro-evolution over eons of time.

Nebraska Man was proven to be a pig's tooth.

It depends upon whether one places their faith and trust in God and His testimony as to events, or whether one places their faith and trust in unproven macro-evolutionary theory.


Artist's rendering of Nebraska Man from a single pig's tooth:


 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 
Yep, that's the one I was thinking as well. It was thru the process of scientific investigation, tho, that the "pig's tooth" model was eventually proposed, correct??

...and I need to suggest that even that one may undergo further revision. That's how the process works. For every "Nebraska man" falsification that occurs, a considerably larger body of evidential data tho, still exists, supporting overall evolutionary models. Unfortunately I suppose some will then add - yeah! in an attempt to disprove God!! - which is even still not the case, since no religious or theological issues are even being addressed in the first place. Oh well..

Also "macroevolution" is a term invented by religious sources, and theoretical sciences do not recognize the term "prove" in an absolute sense in relation to something occurring over "eons of time" - it just is'nt possible, as in the cases of fossil-record interpretation.
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Caretaker:
The agenda of secular science is to prove the theory of macro-evolution over eons of time.

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The objective of secular science is to prove the theory of macro-evolution over eons of time?

There we go again!!
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
The AGENDA of secular science is to indoctrinate in hypothesis and theory in regards to origin of species.
 

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Posted by silas lane (Member # 6626) on :
 
Friend, a third witness was there, the absolute truth. 2Timothy3:16 All scipture is inspired by
God...
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
When you have heard Yahweh speak, men’s hypotheses’ and reasoning’s become total foolishness.

Intellect verses Experience, experience wins every time.

To Know Truth is to experience personal intimate relations with the Creator of all that exist.

There is man I know of that was in an oil field explosion, he lost both eyes (no eye balls in the socket at all) when acid exploded in his face. He was prayed for and Yahweh created new eyes in the sockets.

Try to make this man believe Yahweh is not the creator of Heaven and earth.

And then there is Betty Baxter, you can read and hear what Yahweh is still doing today at ….

http://www.geocities.com/bettybaxterstory/index2.html

And then on a personal level, Yeshua healed my daughter of cancer of the kidneys (Whelms Tumor the size of a grape fruit on the right kidney) 33 years ago. She was 14 months old and the medical world said she would never reach her 5th birthday.

So much for science in the face of Faith.

Seek to know the creator, learn to reverently fear Him and all the questions you need answers for, will be provided.

Because Yeshua is the answer to every question!
 

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Posted by JackHowell (Member # 6507) on :
 
Transitional forms do not exist in the fossil record. This has long been a problem for adherents of macro-evolution. Instead of transitional forms in the fossil record, we have the SUDDEN appearance of complex, fully formed life forms, and even Darwin admitted this was a problem for his theory of evolution, and it remains a problem for evolutionists to this day.
 

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