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Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 
Do you think a Christian can be a Democrat???
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 
Certainly! Don't see why not.

Many European countries (West Germany, Sweden) have, at one time or another , been led under Christian Democratic Socialist governments, and personally I think most of what gets labeled as the "Religious Right" in this country (U.S.) leans strongly toward Christian Democratic Socialism much of the time.
 

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Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 
I consider myself as a Christian Democrat.
 

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Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 
It's nice to see that you agree, EL3LN3TN.

Are you also a Christian Democrat???
 

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Posted by NLP (Member # 5870) on :
 
I said Yes, my parents who love the Lord are democrats. I however am a republican. I believe in the same philosophy that our founding fathers believed in (for the most part). The US was originally set up and intended to be a republic not a democracy, hence the saying “…And to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God…and the “Battle Hymn of the Republic", etc, etc.

Just for an example a democracy believes in equality for ALL; a republic does not. This is something I believe in, and let me explain what I mean by this. Why should I go to work 40 hours a week to have someone say… “OK, you made a $145. so you can have $50.00 a week because that is all you need to survive and we will give Joe $50.00 and Steve $45.00 because there is equality to all.

Well, OK Steve is poor and only makes $5.00 so he needs the extra money to feed his family which I have no problem with this, but Steve is lazy and won’t get up off the couch to go to work. Why should I have to have my hard earned money go to him?

The answer is I shouldn’t..the reason why I believe this is because the Lord tells us ….“For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat".

My Christian belief tells me not to believe in the sort of mentality that promotes rewarding laziness, which the Lord would never do. And under the TRUE umbrella of a democratic state this is exactly what will happen.
This is one of the reasons why our founding fathers made sure the word “Democracy” appears no where in our constitution nor in our Declaration of Independance. I am just going to copy and paste this article you might want to read

Republic v. Democracy

We have grown accustomed to hearing that we are a democracy; such was never the intent. The form of government entrusted to us by our Founders was a republic, not a democracy. Our Founders had an opportunity to establish a democracy in America and chose not to. In fact, the Founders made clear that we were not, and were never to become, a democracy:

Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. James Madison

Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. John Adams

A democracy is a volcano which conceals the fiery materials of its own destruction. These will produce an eruption and carry desolation in their way. The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness [excessive license] which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty. Fisher Ames, Author of the House Language for the First Amendment

We have seen the tumult of democracy terminate . . . as [it has] everywhere terminated, in despotism. . . . Democracy! savage and wild. Thou who wouldst bring down the virtuous and wise to thy level of folly and guilt. Gouverneur Morris, Signer and Penman of the Constitution

The experience of all former ages had shown that of all human governments, democracy was the most unstable, fluctuating and short-lived. John Quincy Adams

A simple democracy . . . is one of the greatest of evils. Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration

In democracy . . . there are commonly tumults and disorders. . . . Therefore a pure democracy is generally a very bad government. It is often the most tyrannical government on earth. Noah Webster

Pure democracy cannot subsist long nor be carried far into the departments of state, it is very subject to caprice and the madness of popular rage. John Witherspoon, Signer of the Declaration

It may generally be remarked that the more a government resembles a pure democracy the more they abound with disorder and confusion. Zephaniah Swift, Author of America's First Legal Text

Many Americans today seem to be unable to define the difference between the two, but there is a difference, a big difference. That difference rests in the source of authority.

A pure democracy operates by direct majority vote of the people. When an issue is to be decided, the entire population votes on it; the majority wins and rules. A republic differs in that the general population elects representatives who then pass laws to govern the nation. A democracy is the rule by majority feeling (what the Founders described as a "mobocracy"); a republic is rule by law. If the source of law for a democracy is the popular feeling of the people, then what is the source of law for the American republic? According to Founder Noah Webster:

The transcendent values of Biblical natural law were the foundation of the American republic. Consider the stability this provides: in our republic, murder will always be a crime, for it is always a crime according to the Word of God. however, in a democracy, if majority of the people decide that murder is no longer a crime, murder will no longer be a crime.

America's immutable principles of right and wrong were not based on the rapidly fluctuating feelings and emotions of the people but rather on what Montesquieu identified as the "principles that do not change." Benjamin Rush similarly observed:
Where there is no law, there is no liberty; and nothing deserves the name of law but that which is certain and universal in its operation upon all the members of the community.


In the American republic, the "principles which did not change" and which were "certain and universal in their operation upon all the members of the community" were the principles of Biblical natural law. In fact, so firmly were these principles ensconced in the American republic that early law books taught that government was free to set its own policy only if God had not ruled in an area.
For example, Blackstone's Commentaries explained:
To instance in the case of murder: this is expressly forbidden by the Divine. . . . If any human law should allow or enjoin us to commit it we are bound to transgress that human law. . . . But, with regard to matters that are . . . not commanded or forbidden by those superior laws such, for instance, as exporting of wool into foreign countries; here the . . . legislature has scope and opportunity to interpose.

The Founders echoed that theme: All [laws], however, may be arranged in two different classes. 1) Divine. 2) Human. . . . But it should always be remembered that this law, natural or revealed, made for men or for nations, flows from the same Divine source: it is the law of God. . . . Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine. James Wilson, Signer of the Constitution; U. S. Supreme Court Justice
The law . . . dictated by God Himself is, of course, superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times. No human laws are of any validity if contrary to this. Alexander Hamilton, Signer of the Constitution

The . . . law established by the Creator . . . extends over the whole globe, is everywhere and at all times binding upon mankind. . . . [This] is the law of God by which he makes his way known to man and is paramount to all human control. Rufus King, Signer of the Constitution


The Founders understood that Biblical values formed the basis of the republic and that the republic would be destroyed if the people's knowledge of those values should ever be lost.
A republic is the highest form of government devised by man, but it also requires the greatest amount of human care and maintenance. If neglected, it can deteriorate into a variety of lesser forms, including a democracy (a government conducted by popular feeling); anarchy (a system in which each person determines his own rules and standards); oligarchy (a government run by a small council or a group of elite individuals): or dictatorship (a government run by a single individual). As John Adams explained:


Understanding the foundation of the American republic is a vital key toward protecting it.


I could go into more detail on this but I hope you understand what I am saying.

The time and legimacy of the following quote remains to be seen but either way, judge the words of the message to see if it has any ring of truth.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policies followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;

From spiritual faith to great courage;

From courage to liberty;

From to liberty to abundance;

From abundance to selfishness;

From selfishness to complacency;

From complacency to apathy;

From apathy to dependency; and,

From dependency back to bondage.


Do you think the US could fit somewhere in this statement????

In the end I love my country and thank God I was born here, love my parents despite the fact that they are democrats but they are wrong (OK that was a joke)and I love my fellow Christians regardless of party. If you truly feel a candidate falls into line with your beliefs then by all means vote for them regardless of party. What I have learned from the replies of my own post is that if I truly don’t feel comfortable voting for any of the candidates then I won’t vote and will skip over that particular area on the ballot.

So as a Christian that means when you die you will either become a Heavlican or a Heavencrat.

God Bless,
Nina
 

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Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 

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Originally posted by NLP:

Well, OK Steve is poor and only makes $5.00 so he needs the extra money to feed his family which I have no problem with this, but Steve is lazy and won’t get up off the couch to go to work. Why should I have to have my hard earned money go to him?

The answer is I shouldn’t..the reason why I believe this is because the Lord tells us ….“For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat".

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The sorry legacy of the founders

By Ulrich Boser

1/12/04

In 1784, five years before he became president of the United States, George Washington, 52, was nearly toothless. So he hired a dentist to transplant nine teeth into his jaw--having extracted them from the mouths of his slaves.

That's a far different image from the cherry-tree-chopping George most people remember from their history books. But recently, many historians have begun to focus on the role slavery played in the lives of the founding generation. They have been spurred in part by DNA evidence made available in 1998, which almost certainly proved Thomas Jefferson had fathered at least one child with his slave Sally Hemings. And only over the past 30 years have scholars examined history from the bottom up. Works by Gore Vidal, Henry Wiencek, and Garry Wills reveal the moral compromises made by the nation's early leaders and the fragile nature of the country's infancy. More significant, they argue that many of the Founding Fathers knew slavery was wrong--and yet most did little to fight it.

More than anything, the historians say, the founders were hampered by the culture of their time. While Washington and Jefferson privately expressed distaste for slavery (Jefferson once called it an "execrable commerce"), they also understood that it was part of the political and economic bedrock of the country they helped to create.

Political capital. For one thing, the South could not afford to part with its slaves. Owning slaves was "like having a large bank account," says Wiencek, author of An Imperfect God: George Washington, His Slaves, and the Creation of America. The southern states would not have signed the Constitution without protections for the "peculiar institution," including a clause that counted a slave as three fifths of a man for purposes of congressional representation.

And the statesmen's political lives depended on slavery. The three-fifths formula handed Jefferson his narrow victory in the presidential election of 1800 by inflating the votes of the southern states in the Electoral College. Once in office, Jefferson extended slavery with the Louisiana Purchase in 1803; the new land was carved into 13 states, including three slave states.

Still, Jefferson freed Hemings's children--though not Hemings herself or his approximately 150 other slaves. Washington, who had begun to believe that all men were created equal after observing the valor of black soldiers during the Revolutionary War, overcame the strong opposition of his relatives to grant his slaves their freedom in his will. Only a decade earlier, such an act would have required legislative approval in Virginia. He suspected the country would eventually come to its moral senses and find the notion of owning other human beings repugnant, says Joseph Ellis, author of the bestselling Founding Brothers. "He knew his legacy depended on it. He knew that we were watching."

Yet how should we view other framers of independence such as signer of the Declaration of Independence Richard Henry Lee and Patrick Henry, who traded and whipped their slaves?

Or James Monroe, who, as governor of Virginia in 1800, after rushed trials, executed nearly 30 slaves after an attempted revolt? For some historians, such actions cloud their legacy. "The other founders resisted emancipation, not because it was a mad scheme but because they did not want to relinquish the wealth which slave sales poured into their coffers," says Wiencek.

Other scholars believe the Founding Fathers can best be seen squarely within their time. "To contextualize is not to excuse," says Rutgers University historian Jan Lewis. "It's to show the complexity." Understanding the early leaders' severe lapse in judgment over slavery, say Lewis and other historians, makes their ability to found a new and democratic nation all the more incredible.

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The transcendent values of Biblical natural law were the foundation of the American republic. Consider the stability this provides: in our republic, murder will always be a crime, for it is always a crime according to the Word of God. however, in a democracy, if majority of the people decide that murder is no longer a crime, murder will no longer be a crime.

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I know from experience that Trent Lott is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to racism in the Republican Party.

I can't count the number of times some Anglo conservative has used the N-word in reference to African-Americans in front of me, even towards those they root for, such as Dallas Cowboys running back Emmitt Smith. I can't count the number of racial "jokes" or references some white City Council member, police officer, businessman, or other establishment figure - whom I know is a Republican - has told to my face. A popular "joke" during this time of year by such racist Republicans is, "What are you doing for Martin Luther Coon' Day?" Or they will snicker, "Have you learned anything during Black *** ' History Month?"

I've sat at high school football games in Republican-dominated towns as Anglo adults in the stands taunted the lone black player on the opposing team using that N-word. I've attended all-white meetings -- as a reporter, not participant - in which elitist Republicans have discussed getting around the Voting Rights Act by lobbying for requirements that voters have to own property. I didn't need someone to spell out what they were talking about -- they wanted some way to keep blacks from voting.

In the 1920s, Dallas had more Ku Klux Klan members per capita than any other large U.S. city. The city had an actual "segregation of the races" clause written in to its charter as late as 1968. Peter Gent, a former Cowboy player and author of classics like North Dallas Forty, says he was shocked to arrive from the Midwest in the mid-1960s to witness such blatant Jim Crow segregation. For example, the team's black players had to drive an extra hour from their segregated South Dallas neighborhoods to reach practice in North Dallas. Through lawsuits, protests, and other measures, the blatant racist policies are gone, but they have been replaced with subtle, back-door racism executed from still all-white country clubs and subdivisions in the suburbs.

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The Republican Party in general launched a strategy during the late 1960s to capture the southern racist vote by opposing affirmative action, supporting the rights of states like South Carolina to fly the Confederate flag in front of public buildings, and similar positions. Dubya Bush himself spoke before the segregationist Bob Jones University in South Carolina, genuflected before the Confederate flag, and helped implement the racist Willie Horton ad during the 1988 presidential campaign of Bush Sr., who approved the racist ad after lobbying by his son. Both Bush's have appointed many racists - both subtle and overt - to high offices, who now work to further erode civil rights.

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Who can forget the Florida 2000 recount battle, when white supremacists rallied for Republicans who embraced their support? What about Florida Republican Gov. Jeb Bush's and former Bush-state-campaign-co-chair-Secretary-of-State-turned-Congresswoman Katherine Harris' openly racist system of purges before the 2000 election that took the names of mostly African-American voters off the rolls? What about the police roadblocks near black precincts on election days? And how about the Republican warnings in communities across the country about impending black voter fraud that usually occur a few days before an election, not to mention misleading fliers circulated by Republican operatives in African-American neighborhoods telling them of different days to vote or wrongly warning that their criminal backgrounds and parking tickets will be checked to try to intimidate them against voting?

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Jefferson Sessions of Alabama. Sessions has called a black assistant U.S. attorney "boy" and a white civil rights attorney a "disgrace to his race." As a prosecutor, Sessions pursued civil rights workers on phony voter fraud charges. As Alabama attorney general, he again pursued allegations of voter fraud in African-American communities, looked the other way in Anglo communities, and refused to aggressively investigate burnings and bombings of black churches. He also said he thought KKK members were "OK" until he heard some might have smoked marijuana and charged the NAACP with being "un-American" and "Communist-inspired." Despite such a past, Bush and other Republicans have campaigned for Sessions.

The other Republican senator from Alabama, Richard Shelby, callously equated Lott's verbal criticism in the media with an atrocious physical act of violence against African-Americans and others. "I think we should not lynch him," Shelby told CNN.

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That's why I call Republicans like Bush and Cheney and Bennett, who publicly embrace Martin Luther King Jr. as they call for a colorblind society, yet live in their mostly-white neighborhoods and practice racism when it suits their political agenda, closet racists. They like to point out that lynching black people is wrong as they oppose proposals that would do more to bring about real equality and execute racist campaigns -- as Bush did against McCain in South Carolina in 2000 -- to gain political victory.

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As the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday approaches, these subtle racist Republicans will talk like they have supported King's vision of a colorblind society and African-American rights all along, when their records and actions speak otherwise. That's just more of the Republican con job.

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Source cited: http://www.americanpolitics.com/20030110Thoreau.html


Not only Racist, but classist, too.

I don't believe that Christianity is the Republican religion. I believe that the Republican religion is capitalism and its language is money, which is why it cannot understand the language of pain and suffering of the oppressed poor and black.

REMEMBER HURRICANE KATRINA.

The poor and black starved for FIVE DAYS, a baby died. The thing that cuts deep is that they looked just like me.

George Bush does not care about black people. Republican party does not care about black people, they have never cared about us, NEVER.


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Just an idea.
 

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Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 
I am a revolutionary! I am the people!


I say, power to ALL people.
 

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Posted by NLP (Member # 5870) on :
 
DUH to me!!
Sorry, my bad…Steve’s not lazy Joe is. I should have double checked the name. Now does that make sense? Like I said and I will repeat it because you skipped it.
I believe in the same philosophy that our founding fathers believed in (for the most part). It seems you were quick to completely skip over that part.


As for the "republican" party- I believe it's RACIST and classist.

It truly digusts me.

I can't stand behind a racist party. That is not godly at all.

If you’re calling me a racist and classiest, then you are calling God the same things. Oh wait people are already calling him that. Just ask any Atheist! I can guarantee you that these words will come out their mouths.

Do you think I care how much money my neighbor makes? No, not really! If he makes a fortune then let him. I DO NOT COVET and if someone is bitter because Bill Gates makes a zillion bucks that is what God tells us is coveting. It’s kind of like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum because another kid has more toys than them. Who care nobody is taking it w/them when they die. God’s not going to give Bill more than me in heaven because he made more ‘money’. As long as person is making money in a just way and not by ripping people off then I could care less, because ones again I do not covet.


REMEMBER HURRICANE KATRINA.
The poor and black starved for FIVE DAYS, a baby died. The thing that cuts deep is that they looked just like me.


Ok, WHY OH WHY are people DEPENDING on the Government to solve their trials and tribulations?? I could go into a bunch of stories of my g.grandparents, etc. and the trials they went through (hurricanes, Wars, etc) WITHOUT anything from the Government. The government wasn’t intended to be replied upon like they are a god. So why do we do it? The reason why the Government is: For the Government, and by the Government is because we have become lazy and allowed them to take control so it is no longer by the people. How much easier is it for people to point others in the direction of Government welfare rather than help to them support themselves. Which you can’t argue this point because this is exactly what we are doing. This is the ‘laziness’ I am referring to. The victims of Katrina should have been able to depend on their fellow citizens (neighbors) not the government. So I don’t and won’t blame the government for Katrina. I blame ‘us’ the American people so being so dependant on the government instead of each other. By this we are more and more coming under the thumb of them that will lead to that bondage.

I say, power to ALL people.

I as a Christian would never feel OK with this blindly said statement, Sorry! I don’t want the child molesters, murders, rapist, and abortionist to have the same power (equal) as good God fearing people. Which is exactly what is happening, under the democracy of equality...to all! That is why WE have constant, constant, constant, repeat offenders.

Color of skin doesn’t matter much up here….I see rich black, powerful black people all over the place up here. I am now beginning to believe it is a southern problem. My sister who moved about 8 years ago to Virginia called me one day. She works for a large company and said and I quote “You wouldn’t believe that people down here are still racist”. She says sometimes she feels like she’s living in past. The reason she said this to me was because it is something we don’t deal w/up here and she wasn’t use to seeing it. Race means nothing to me it, never has, and never will. I could care less what color skin someone has. It’s irrelevant. Being a republican makes me far from a racist. That would be like me saying because you are Democrat you are a murderer, because it’s no surprise that the Democrats are the #1 supporters of abortion rights. Unless you do believe in abortion rights?
Isn’t it funny though that the MOST powerful woman in America is black? Oprah Winfrey and she did it all without the help of the US Government, go figure?

By the way my 2 great, great, grandfathers were in the Civil War (North). One died the other one was in the troop that Robert E. Lee surrendered to. The one that died, the government gave my g.grandmother 1 cent, period! She had eight children at the time and she made it through on her own. No whinning or complaining to the government.

So in a nutshell, shame on you for thinking Republicans are racist (my FAMILY personally suffered to abolish slavery) and for thinking your dependency should be in the hands of the government. God teaches you better than that.

When you talk about equality you’re thinking of race, creed, religion, etc. If it was just that then Yes, Rose I would agree w/you 100%. But it is not; it’s much much more than that.
 

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Posted by NLP (Member # 5870) on :
 
Here's one up to date fact on how the democratic elected officials are voting on your behalf.

Question: (Parapharsed) Do you want to stop tax dollars from supporting organizations that want to infringe of Religious rights?

The U.S. House of Representatives passed the PERA bill which would block tax dollars from going to the ACLU and similar groups in cases of lawsuits to remove 10 Commandments plaques and religious symbols from public buildings and courthouses.

Who's votes do you think passed this? Republicans or Democrats?

To see how your Congressional representatives voted on this bill here is the link.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll480.xml

Seems the Democratic elected officials overwelming would like to eventually see Christianity put to a halt and they want to have your money out of your tax dollars to do it, but the Repulicans (who voted yes to the blocking of funds) do not!
Judge for yourself by reviewing the undisputed facts of how the parties voted with just this one example. See who is really looking out for your best interested which is (or should be) Christ and the public worship of Him above all else!

Just food for thought!
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 

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Originally posted by NLP:
"The transcendent values of Biblical natural law were the foundation of the American republic."


In the American republic, the "principles which did not change" and which were "certain and universal in their operation upon all the members of the community" were the principles of Biblical natural law.

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Whoa! Wait a minute ...I must confess this "Biblical natural law" is a bit of a new one to me.

...and I'll outrightly suggest that Montesquieu is being (incorrectly) taken out of context w/ this - I think the term(s) we're looking for are "Natural Law" / "Natural Rights" guided by a political philosophy of "Republican Liberalism" as espoused by Montesquieu, John Locke, Thomas Paine, Madison, Jefferson, etc...

Really, I think the "Biblical" part is on shaky basis, with not much hard supporting evidence.

btw - I notice no link reference or credit - from where was this article taken? Who's the author?
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 

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Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
It's nice to see that you agree, EL3LN3TN.

Are you also a Christian Democrat???

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uh...well...we don't really have that in this country (U.S.) that I'm aware of


I tend to vote as an independent, with a slight conservative lean on local issues but as it gets closer to the "big picture" (State/Federal) I shift a bit liberal.
 

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Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 

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DUH to me!!
Sorry, my bad…Steve’s not lazy Joe is. I should have double checked the name. Now does that make sense?

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I believe in the same philosophy that our founding fathers believed in (for the most part).

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If you’re calling me a racist and classiest, then you are calling God the same things. Oh wait people are already calling him that. Just ask any Atheist! I can guarantee you that these words will come out their mouths.

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Ok, WHY OH WHY are people DEPENDING on the Government to solve their trials and tribulations?? I could go into a bunch of stories of my g.grandparents, etc. and the trials they went through (hurricanes, Wars, etc) WITHOUT anything from the Government.

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The government wasn’t intended to be replied upon like they are a god. So why do we do it?

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The reason why the Government is: For the Government, and by the Government is because we have become lazy and allowed them to take control so it is no longer by the people. How much easier is it for people to point others in the direction of Government welfare rather than help to them support themselves. Which you can’t argue this point because this is exactly what we are doing. This is the ‘laziness’ I am referring to.

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The victims of Katrina should have been able to depend on their fellow citizens (neighbors) not the government. So I don’t and won’t blame the government for Katrina. I blame ‘us’ the American people so being so dependant on the government instead of each other. By this we are more and more coming under the thumb of them that will lead to that bondage.

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I as a Christian would never feel OK with this blindly said statement, Sorry! I don’t want the child molesters, murders, rapist, and abortionist to have the same power (equal) as good God fearing people. Which is exactly what is happening, under the democracy of equality...to all! That is why WE have constant, constant, constant, repeat offenders.

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Being a republican makes me far from a racist. That would be like me saying because you are Democrat you are a murderer, because it’s no surprise that the Democrats are the #1 supporters of abortion rights. Unless you do believe in abortion rights?

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Abortion Rights??? Republican Party ain't about the gospel or stopping abortion rights or the so called "gay agenda". It is all about money. If the Republican Party were "Christian" they wouldn't have left the blacks and poor to die in the streets of New Orleans. It seems like Bush pretends to care about the babies inside of the womb, because his actions show how much he cares about the ones outside of the womb caught up in the Katrina aftermath. He does NOT CARE.

What about the ones that George Bush failed outside of the womb???



"Religious Right"? More like "Racist Right".

George bush let them starve, and it was reported that one baby died. The lives of the poor and black don't matter to the GOP, these so called Christians. By doing that, they show how much they do not care about the blacks and poor. They never have and never will.

This government does not seem to care about black people, this government does not seem to care about the poor. The government does not understand suffering, it cannot comprehend the language of suffering.

The Republican Party is not a Christian one.
Republican Party's religion is capitalism, and its language is money.

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Isn’t it funny though that the MOST powerful woman in America is black? Oprah Winfrey and she did it all without the help of the US Government, go figure?

By the way my 2 great, great, grandfathers were in the Civil War (North). One died the other one was in the troop that Robert E. Lee surrendered to. The one that died, the government gave my g.grandmother 1 cent, period! She had eight children at the time and she made it through on her own. No whinning or complaining to the government.

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So in a nutshell, shame on you for thinking Republicans are racist (my FAMILY personally suffered to abolish slavery) and for thinking your dependency should be in the hands of the government. God teaches you better than that.

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When you talk about equality you’re thinking of race, creed, religion, etc. If it was just that then Yes, Rose I would agree w/you 100%. But it is not; it’s much much more than that.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NLP:
Here's one up to date fact on how the democratic elected officials are voting on your behalf.

Question: (Parapharsed) Do you want to stop tax dollars from supporting organizations that want to infringe of Religious rights?

The U.S. House of Representatives passed the PERA bill which would block tax dollars from going to the ACLU and similar groups in cases of lawsuits to remove 10 Commandments plaques and religious symbols from public buildings and courthouses.

Who's votes do you think passed this? Republicans or Democrats?

To see how your Congressional representatives voted on this bill here is the link.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll480.xml

Seems the Democratic elected officials overwelming would like to eventually see Christianity put to a halt and they want to have your money out of your tax dollars to do it, but the Repulicans (who voted yes to the blocking of funds) do not!
Judge for yourself by reviewing the undisputed facts of how the parties voted with just this one example. See who is really looking out for your best interested which is (or should be) Christ and the public worship of Him above all else!

Just food for thought!

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quote:

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WASHINGTON, Sept. 29 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Former Republican Secretary of Education William Bennett remarked yesterday on his radio show that, "I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down."

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quote:

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"What I want to tell you...Ladies and Gentlemen...That there's not enough troops in the Army...to force the southern people to break down segregation and admit the nigger race into our theatres, into our swimming pools, into our homes and into our churches."
-- Strom Thurman, 1948.

"When Strom Thurman ran for president, we voted for him! We're proud of it! And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all of these problems over all of these years either."
-- Trent Lott, December, 2002.

"If we had elected this man 30 years ago, we wouldn't be in the mess we are today."
-- Trent Lott, 1980.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NLP:
See who is really looking out for your best interested which is (or should be) Christ and the public worship of Him above all else!

Just food for thought!

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quote:

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The government is SUPPOSED to HELP and serve its people, the PEOPLE elect them into office. THE GOVERNMENT had BETTER take care of them. If the government does not HELP THEM then they fail to do their job, and need to be replaced.

This government has been oppressing the black and poor for a long time, denying them the help and service that they need. Help and service is NOT a HANDOUT.

---

I think that the poor democratic people of this country had voted in their party for over forty years and it never got them anywhere. After a transfer of wealth for the "rich" to the "poor" in this country of over 5,000,000,000,000.oo(trillion) the poor are no better off then they have ever been. Why is that?

Now as to the thing that really gets misreported, I live in Baton Rouge, LA. All I have heard from the national media is how President Bush HATES the blackpeople of N.O. That he let them drown in Katrina and starve and thirst in the heat of August. You have written

quote:

---

Those people stuck down there thought that the Government cared about the poor and black, and they thought wrong.

"Our government failed those people in the beginning, and I take it now there is no dispute about it," Clinton told CNN. "One hundred percent of the people recognize that -- that it was a failure."

---

Yes you are right. The government did fail those people down there, but not the one you and most others want to blame. It was the failure of the local N.O. mayor for not demanding an evac soon enough. A black democrat mayor. Where is the disdane for his not caring? They are his voters!
Then there is the state of LA. govevnor who waited until the hurricane was at our front door to ask for help. A white democrat female. Where is the disdane for her not caring? They are her voters!

And yet after the storm destroys the area the president, which I am sure was not voted for by the majority of these poeple,mobilizes the largest search and rescue in this country's history and it is his fault . This must be bizaro world!!!

Rick
 

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Posted by BrianGrass1234 (Member # 5845) on :
 
Christians can be Democrats, Republicans, Communists, Green Party Members, Libertarians, Peace and Freedom members, Constitutionalists, ext...

Where you have to be careful of is what your party is promoting.

Just looking at the Democrats and the Republicans, because they are the two main parties by a long way, they both promote and continue to support something Christ would not. That is taking from one person, against their will, and then giving to another.

The democrats love to take from one person, against their will, to then provide for another through providing welfare checks, free or subsidized health care, regulation of business, funding sciences and research, ext... On the flip side the republicans like to take from one, against their will, to provide for another through military protection, police force, legislated morality, subsidies for businesses, ext... This isn't exact, stolen goods get used on both sides for differing reasons also based on who is lining their pockets.

I think Christ would be of a more libertarian or anarchist persuasion as to not be using government force to achieve any particular groups goals, but rather through non violent persuasion.
 

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Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by reflectingtheson:
I think that the poor democratic people of this country had voted in their party for over forty years and it never got them anywhere. After a transfer of wealth for the "rich" to the "poor" in this country of over 5,000,000,000,000.oo(trillion) the poor are no better off then they have ever been. Why is that?

---

Never got them anywhere??? The poor and democratic of this country were better of with a democratic president who cares about the blacks and poor. I was more better off with former president Clinton, than I could ever be with president George W Bush and the Racist Republican party.

Where have you gotten those so-called "stats" from? Any sources? I see none. Why is that?

The Republican Party is racist, I believe that most blacks believe that. My family believes that. I believe that. And I have cited my sources in the above posts as proof that the Republican Party is racist.

quote:

---

Originally posted by reflectingtheson:
Now as to the thing that really gets misreported, I live in Baton Rouge, LA. All I have heard from the national media is how President Bush HATES the blackpeople of N.O.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by reflectingtheson:
The government did fail those people down there, but not the one you and most others want to blame. It was the failure of the local N.O. mayor for not demanding an evac soon enough. A black democrat mayor.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by reflectingtheson:
And yet after the storm destroys the area the president, which I am sure was not voted for by the majority of these poeple,

---

quote:

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NAGIN: I told him we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice. And that I have been all around this city, and I am very frustrated because we are not able to marshal resources and we're outmanned in just about every respect.

You know the reason why the looters got out of control? Because we had most of our resources saving people, thousands of people that were stuck in attics, man, old ladies. ... You pull off the doggone ventilator vent and you look down there and they're standing in there in water up to their freaking necks.

And they don't have a clue what's going on down here. They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of ******* -- excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed.

WWL: Did you say to the president of the United States, "I need the military in here"?

NAGIN: I said, "I need everything."

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quote:

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NAGIN: I have no idea what they're doing. But I will tell you this: You know, God is looking down on all this, and if they are not doing everything in their power to save people, they are going to pay the price. Because every day that we delay, people are dying and they're dying by the hundreds, I'm willing to bet you.

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quote:

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NAGIN: I don't know. I don't think so.

But we called for martial law when we realized that the looting was getting out of control. And we redirected all of our police officers back to patrolling the streets. They were dead-tired from saving people, but they worked all night because we thought this thing was going to blow wide open last night. And so we redirected all of our resources, and we hold it under check.

I'm not sure if we can do that another night with the current resources.

And I am telling you right now: They're showing all these reports of people looting and doing all that weird stuff, and they are doing that, but people are desperate and they're trying to find food and water, the majority of them.

Now you got some knuckleheads out there, and they are taking advantage of this lawless -- this situation where, you know, we can't really control it, and they're doing some awful, awful things. But that's a small majority of the people. Most people are looking to try and survive.

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quote:

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NAGIN: Organize people to write letters and make calls to their congressmen, to the president, to the governor. Flood their doggone offices with requests to do something. This is ridiculous.

I don't want to see anybody do anymore ******* press conferences. Put a moratorium on press conferences. Don't do another press conference until the resources are in this city. And then come down to this city and stand with us when there are military trucks and troops that we can't even count.

Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here. They're not here. It's too doggone late. Now get off your ***es and do something, and let's fix the biggest ******* crisis in the history of this country.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by BrianGrass1234:
As far as hurricane damage is concerned, it has nothing to do with the federal government, or at least shouldn't. Any damage done to private property should be taken care of by the insurance that should have been held by the property owners. If the insurance company doesn't hold up to their contract than its a civil lawsuit to handle the matter. Any government property that was damaged should be rebuilt by the local governments that had ownership over those properties. If there are any federal buildings that were destroy, than it is up to the federal government to decide if they want to rebuild or not and to fund the rebuilding. As far as helping the poor and those who did not have insurance for their property, then that should come from voluntary charities, not forced wealth redistribution.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrianGrass1234:
As far as hurricane damage is concerned, it has nothing to do with the federal government, or at least shouldn't. Any damage done to private property should be taken care of by the insurance that should have been held by the property owners. If the insurance company doesn't hold up to their contract than its a civil lawsuit to handle the matter. Any government property that was damaged should be rebuilt by the local governments that had ownership over those properties. If there are any federal buildings that were destroy, than it is up to the federal government to decide if they want to rebuild or not and to fund the rebuilding. As far as helping the poor and those who did not have insurance for their property, then that should come from voluntary charities, not forced wealth redistribution.

---

I believe that you are missing the point, I am not talking about the damage.

There was a DELAY in the federal response time, A DELAY in RESPONSE.

The federal government HAD THE RESOURCES, but failed the poor and black citizens by delaying response and starving them off. I blame the goverment for STARVING THEM OFF.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by BrianGrass1234:
The federal government should have had no response. Individuals should either seek reimbursment from their insurance companies if it is in their contracts, should be responsible for themselves, or seek help from voluntary charities. Not expect the government to extract help through others through force.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrianGrass1234:
The federal government should have had no response. Individuals should either seek reimbursment from their insurance companies if it is in their contracts, should be responsible for themselves, or seek help from voluntary charities. Not expect the government to extract help through others through force.

---

No response for the American citizens, from the American Government??? The government is supposed to serve the people.

Others??? What others are you talking about???

The government is responsible for taking care of the American people, AIDING THEM IN THEIR TIME OF NEED.

And for anyone to say to me that the government should not have responded to help those less fortunate in the Katrina aftermath, is an obscenity.

The government that fails to aid its citizens when they are in need is the goverment that needs to be either altered or abolished, so a new one can be put in place to serve ALL OF ITS CITIZENS.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BrianGrass1234:
So you want to take from others, by force, against their will, to pay for others who happen to be in a bad situation, whether it is their fault or not. Am I correct? Is it OK to steal if it is the majority that wants it? Like I said in the other thread, democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on whats for dinner.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BrianGrass1234:
Explain this to me cause I don't get it.

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quote:

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This is very sad. This is NOT a democracy, I believe that neither you nor I have ever witnessed democracy, all that we have ever witnessed is hypocracy.

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quote:

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Originally posted by reflectingtheson:
If this were a democracy then would it be OK if the 73% of the european heritage of americans voted and decided to round up by force all african and hispanic decendance and sent them back to their old countries? This would be how a true democracy would work, and there would be nothing anyone could say because the majority of the people voted in favor of that outcome.

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quote:

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Originally posted by reflectingtheson:
BUT Thank God this is a republic were laws are the principle means by which we live and are established by the people for the betterment of ALL who live here.

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quote:

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Originally posted by reflectingtheson:
The whole setup of this country was to provide a place for its people were Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness is allowed to flurish. That means the pursuit of my happiness does not infringe on your liberty and your liberty does not harm anothers life.

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quote:

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Originally posted by reflectingtheson:
And yet we have flipped 180 degrees to try and make all our people happy at the expence of our liberty and in some cases life.
Anyone remember Waco and Ruby Ridge????

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quote:

---

Our oldest daughter and son-in-law are visiting with us it is his first visit to Israel. Because my wife and I want all our children home here in Israel I wanted to show him how wonderful Israel is this of course would start with my playing the role of a tourist guide to show him all the places he would like to see.

It was early Sunday morning, Yom Reshon, (the first day of the week in Israel) he ask me if it was possible for me to take him to Bethlehem, I said no, Israelis are not allowed to go there, so then he ask if we could take him to Jericho, I said no Israelis are not allowed there either. Then he said how about the Garden Tomb, I told him that was in East Jerusalem and it all depended on the circumstances and if these Arabs who call themselves Palestinians are rioting or if there is any terrorist alerts. Well what about the Temple Mount he asked, can we go there, and I then I told him, that we Jews are not allowed to go there most of the time but some times if we behave ourselves they are generous to us and allow us to go there in small numbers on Tuesday afternoons. But we can’t go there now because this is the Islamic holiday of Ramadan and they would kill us.

So what about the Old City, I told him yes we can go there and if they are not throwing rocks over the wall from the Temple Mount we can go to the Western Wall and Pray. But if we are allowed onto the Temple mount next Tuesday we are not allowed to pray there, the Moslems walk around watching to see if Jews or Christians are praying and they will run you off the Mount if they catch you praying. You see the one thing they fear is our prayers. But we can walk through the Jewish Quarters and even parts of the Old City, for example through the Jaffa gate all the way to the Temple Mount is for the most part safe for us, but we dare not venture into the Moslem quarters around Herold’s Gate and there has been a rash of stabbings of Jews around the area of the Damascus Gate. It would not be to smart for us to attempt to go through the Lions Gate (St. Stephen’s Gate) that leads directly into the north end of the Temple Mount and there is always danger for us there.

I think you have the picture by now, of these problems that are directly related to the weak Israeli Government and their desire to please the US and not the Jews of Israel. To begin with the fact that they have given the Holiest site in the Jewish world to the Jordanians is in itself beyond understanding. When we consider that Jerusalem isn’t even mentioned in their Koran, and there is no real proof that their Prophet ever came to Jerusalem. It is very clear that their holy sites in Mecca and Medina should be enough, but their desire to destroy the Jewish People goes back to Ishmael and Isaac and that is really what it is all about. It can also be seen in the one thing that unites all the Arabs, the destruction not only of Israel but of all the Jewish People. They will of course fail as they have always failed.

We are living in the days when good is called evil and evil good and there isn’t a better way to see this than to take a close look at Islam. They call Jews and Christians evil and themselves good. They teach their children from kinder garden that to be a suicide bomber and to kill the Jews and Christian is good because they are evil. What we are talking about here is approximately one third of the population of the planet who has been taken over by the Devil.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by reflectingtheson:
Now these are jewish decendance living in their own land and you think you and other americans of African lineage have it bad here because of a few stupid people. I'm sorry but quit you whining and look for the good people around you. You are a christian practice christian love,

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quote:

---

Originally posted by reflectingtheson:
God Bless you and your family, Itty-Bitty Girl, but because of your total disdane for anything beyond the democratic party line it is hard to have a reasonable discussion on these matters. I have read other things from you in other topics with pleasure and agreement, but from here I must regretfully depart.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by reflectingtheson:
Itty Bitty Girl, You say that you want equality for ALL, but that is not possible here on earth.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by reflectingtheson:
So if that is how it will be then then why is it to be different now. Let us say you have a garden that taxes your mental and physical strength every day but it provides you with you daily needs. And living next to you is a person of equal mental and physical strength yet choses to sit on his porch all day.

Do you then give an equal portion of your food to the person who has not toiled in the field?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by reflectingtheson:
I guess the last part of my statement was missed about helping those who are truly in need yet you are right in that I find it offencive to help the "lazy" which I am not using as a code word for anything except laziness. I don't accept it in my children, my co-workers or my employees. So why must I accept it in the general public.

---

Well, I am not talking about the "lazy" people, I am talking about the underpaid hard-workers, the disabled, the victims of discrimination and others that have been denied freedom from this oppressive system.

The system that does not give equal treatment to all, fails people like the ones that I have mentioned. They are the ones that racist, classist and fascist people fail to acknowledge.

All that the oppressed want is freedom.

Power to all people.
 

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Posted by freddy05 (Member # 5854) on :
 
What a silly question! (But I understand why you ask, so many relgious right Christians can´t comprehend!) But the poll is split, so it can´t be that silly!

After seeing the amount of suffering, death, and economic hardship around the world from Republican policies, I would think maybe "Can a person be a Christian and a Republican?" may be a better question.

So who is worse?
Republicans have racist policies that view Latinos, Blacks, and Arabs as second class citizens (if they are American) or subhuman (if they are foreign). These policies lead to the deaths of at least 50,000 in Iraq (so estimates MUCH higher). Who know´s how many died or suffered torture in Latin America throughout the US supported military dictator ships. They support economic policies which rains wealth on few and blames everyone else as being lazy, unintellegent, not trying hard enough, etc... And don´t even start on the environment... who cares if we pollute the earth and cause many types of plants and animals to go extinct... who cares if we run out of oil in 200 years, Christ is coming back in the next few years, right? Global environmental problems will harm, and are harming poor areas of the world, but not America! So let´s keep it up!

Democrats kill truckloads of babies and want to steal your money.

So who´s worse?
 

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Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by freddy05:

Democrats kill truckloads of babies and want to steal your money.

So who´s worse?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:

quote:

---

Originally posted by freddy05:

Democrats kill truckloads of babies and want to steal your money.

So who´s worse?

---

Steal your money? How?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by freddy05:
Democrats kill truckloads of babies... and want to steal your money.

---

Sorry, but that's just too hilarious!!


So where do Democrats take their "truckloads of babies" in order to kill them?? To America's secret network of concentration camps w/ black helicopters parked outside??

<lol> Have they ever been photographed doing this?? Who let's them get away with it??

Or on a serious note - are you suggesting the majority of women who decide to undergo termination procedures are Democrats??##$$!!??

News to me.
 

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Posted by Thunderz7 (Member # 31) on :
 
Itty-Bitty Girl,
I feel you have totally missed the point of the history lesson given by NLP.
In my opinion you have twisted his words and his meaning.
AND you are continually playing the "race card".

Another history lesson for you on the "race card"
and Democrats and Republicans---
In the Spring and Summer of 2003,(in Alabama)
Judge Roy Moore was under fire for his stand supporting display of the Ten Commandments Momument.
During this time the University of Alabama was in the process of finding a new head football coach.

How did the Democrats and Republicans respond?

Alan Keys, a Republican, a black man, a black leader, came to Alabama to support Roy Moore, the Ten Commandments and the rights of Christians in the United States.

Jesse Jaskson, a Democrat, a black man, a black leader, came to Alabama to support a black man for head football coach, and was totally racist in his stand.

Three candidates were interviewed for the football job.
All three former players for the university.

The youngest (37) a white man, had assistant coaching experience in pro football.

A black man (49) had experience as an assistant in college and pro football.

A white man (62) with experience as assistant in college and pro ball and Head Coaching experience in college ball.

Jesse pointed to the experience and years the black man had on the younger white man, in saying that is the reason the black man should get the job.
Jesse ignored the fact that the older white man had head coaching experience and several years experience on the black man.

Jesse is supposidly a politician not an athlete, not a coach, not an athletic dierctor;
yet when Alabama choose the younger candidate, Jesse set up protest all over the state.

The Democrat "Reverend" Jesse, never once took time to support the ten commandments or the rights of Christians, he was too busy getting in front of any camera or microphone he could find to play the "race card".

Alan Keys stood as a Christian;
"Reverend" Jackson stood as a racist.
What was really important Alabama in the spring and summer of 2003?
The Republicans said it was religion.
The Democrats said it was football.

The Democratic platform is open to public knowledge;
they support abortion and gay rights openly and publicly.
How does a Christian number himself/herself among abortionist and homosexuals?

T7
 

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Posted by Fire Of God (Member # 6123) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
Do you think a Christian can be a Democrat???

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
Itty-Bitty Girl,
I feel you have totally missed the point of the history lesson given by NLP.
In my opinion you have twisted his words and his meaning.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
AND you are continually playing the "race card".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:

Jesse Jaskson, a Democrat, a black man, a black leader, came to Alabama to support a black man for head football coach, and was totally racist in his stand.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:

Jesse pointed to the experience and years the black man had on the younger white man, in saying that is the reason the black man should get the job.
Jesse ignored the fact that the older white man had head coaching experience and several years experience on the black man.

Jesse is supposidly a politician not an athlete, not a coach, not an athletic dierctor;
yet when Alabama choose the younger candidate, Jesse set up protest all over the state.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:

Alan Keys, a Republican, a black man, a black leader, came to Alabama to support Roy Moore, the Ten Commandments and the rights of Christians in the United States.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:

The Democrat "Reverend" Jesse, never once took time to support the ten commandments or the rights of Christians, he was too busy getting in front of any camera or microphone he could find to play the "race card".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:

Alan Keys stood as a Christian;
"Reverend" Jackson stood as a racist.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:

What was really important Alabama in the spring and summer of 2003?
The Republicans said it was religion.
The Democrats said it was football.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:

The Democratic platform is open to public knowledge;
they support abortion and gay rights openly and publicly.
How does a Christian number himself/herself among abortionist and homosexuals?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by wparr:
I would say that any discussion of the reverendLESS Jesse Jackson needs to be in the FALSE TEACHING section.

His CLAIMING to be a man of God (which God? NOT the one of the Scriptures)and taking the title Reverend is Blaspheme

Hid fruit is POISONOUS and EVIL.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by wparr:
How can I say something like that?

Because it's TRUE!!!

Are you going to try to defend him as a true follower of Christ proclaming the ONE TRUE Gospel?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by wparr:
"Good" works apart from God means NOTHING

You should realize that sis

Joel does good works - what do you thing of him?

Joyce Meyer$$$ does good works - what do you think of her?


What is Jesse's CHARACTER

Adultry - lies - deception - intimidation - control - fear mongering.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by wparr:
The man is NOT motivated by love - he displays to much HATE


The analagy you make with him is the SAME one used by terror groups - they are fighting to free their people.

Jesse has said and shown on MANY occasions that he hated whites - NEVER heard him repent.

He bragged of spitting on white peoples food when he worked in a restaurant (I define that type of hate as RACISUM) - NEVER heard him repent.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by wparr:
But he hasn't SHOWN any change.

His tools are NOT of God - fear mongering - intimidation - threats - lies.

So who is his father??

NOT Yahweh

Who does that leave.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by wparr:
Read the news reports.

Also the man has sided with Yaser Arafat (a terrorist) AGAINST Israel

That makes him an ENEMY of Yahweh.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by wparr:
Well there has been PLENTY of audio / video of Jesse siding with and expressing support to Arafat and the PLO.

If you CHOOSE to ignore all that and back him blindly - well no amout of truth will change your perception (as opposed to reality).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by wparr:
Have you ever heard of Jesse Lee Peterson?

A black Pastor who is outspokenly critical of JJ.

Check him out at http://www.bondinfo.org/

He won't be taking a racist slant against JJ.

Now Jesse Lee Peterson IS showing the fruit of love of Christ in his works AND he presents the Gospel to.

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quote:

---

Race Card??? Tell me, what is a “race card”? So many White racists tell Blacks that they are playing the “race card” when they expose racism in everyday society, but I didn’t get my “race card” in the mail.

And how can I, as a black person, pretend that I don’t know what’s going on?

---

quote:

---

The older white man did not get the job, but the younger white man did get the job.

The younger white man did not have as much experience as the black man. What makes white man with less experience any better than the black man with more experience?

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quote:

---

Oh yeah, he was defending “Ten Commandments”. Ten Commandments??? What? What about the RACISM, CLASSISM AND FASCISM? Why doesn’t he seem to do anything about the racism in this society? Why doesn’t he seem to be concerned about our welfare?

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quote:

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That is a racist statement; it appears that you believe that the rights of Black people are not worth fighting for. How sad. White racists always talk about that so-called “race card”. And yet I, as a black person can’t seem to figure out what it is.

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quote:

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The Republican Party is not a Christian one.

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quote:

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Republican Party's religion is capitalism, and its language is money.

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quote:

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Do you know how it feels to be denied your rights, just because of the color of your skin, or sexual orientation? How then can you support the denial of a gay person of their rights? What makes you any better than them? That is bigotry.

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quote:

---

We need to make it very clear that something is not a sin because of man's law, but God's law.

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quote:

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A law against Gay Marriage won't end homosexuality. To me, a law against gay marriage just is a waste of time.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
It's good that life's experiences have set you as the expert on racism and discrimination.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
Too bad I didn't learn anything back when two men tried to kill me because they didn't want their niece dating one of "my kind".

It's a shame I learned nothing when that gang didn't like me having the wrong color jacket on, at the wrong time, in the wrong place.

Guess I was just too hard headed to understand why the law "profiled" me because of a group I was part of, harassing me on my job and tapping my phone, because of my lifestyle and how I looked.

If I had learned quicker maybe I would have turned to Jesus earlier.
But even after I did come to Jesus.

I guess having my parents think I should see a "shrink" because I supported a Christian in a mixed race relationship, didn't teach me anything about Christian life.

I suppose it is meaningless what I was called when our group reached out in witness to a lesbian couple and tried to lead them to Christ.

Wonder why it is I stand with a modern day apostle who is white and his wife black;
guess I just can't learn!

Why do I support that missionary who has dual citizenship in the U.S. and Mexico, all four of his children married Mexicans,
he even (legally) brings Mexicans to the U.S. at times;
how is it I would support this?

When I was the first of my color to join a Christin singing group that had been one race for twelve years prior to my joining, and staying with it for ten years, I must have seen, heard and learned nothing.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
It is good that the young know all;
a shame we get so dumb as we stay here longer!
(I'm not old, I've just been here a long time)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
As Jesse, you fail to see that older more experienced white man can't just be taken out of the equation because you don't want to explain that part of it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
So what is more important to you;
1-your race?
2-your social and economic level?
3-type of government and laws?
4-YHWH's Commandments?
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
Funny that around here it is white people who usually call me racist names, because of things I have stood for and fought for.
So you calling me a white racist really doesn't impress me!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
That is a true statement;
but I hope you are not implying that the Democrats are Christian!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
the Democrats religion is human sacrifice(abortion)
their language is an abomination to YHWH (homosexuality)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
As a matter of fact I have been denied equal rights because of my color.
No I probably haven't because of my sexual orientation.
I probably have because of my gender!

I don't think gay rights should include teaching children in public school that the gay lifestyle is acceptable.
I don't think our tax money should be use to support such teaching.
I didn't say I was better that they;
I don't force Christ on them and don't want them trying to force me to accept homosexuality.

Now to white racist, you add bigot.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
YHWH's WORD is quite clear about abortion and homosexuality!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
What about YHWH's law against gay marrage;
is that a waste of time to you also?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Gay Marriage and the Democrats
Support for gay rights, marriage evident at Democratic convention
"Date: 07/30/2004
Source: 04-76
By Robert Marus
BOSTON (ABP) -- The head of the nation's largest gay-rights group made a pitch for "marriage equality" for same-sex couples from the floor of the Democratic National Convention, while conservative religious groups criticized the party's platform and presidential ticket as being too pro-gay. "

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:

These numbers will not change. They are based on individual choices made--aggregated nationally--as long as 30 years ago. Look inside these numbers at where the political impact is felt most. Do Democrats realize that millions of Missing Voters--due to the abortion policies they advocate--gave George W. Bush the margin of victory in 2000?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caretaker:

I want to add my amen to your posts. Oppotunity? There were more new African-American business owners, under the Reagan administration then any other time in our nation's history.

---

quote:

---

In 1980, former FBI Director L. Patrick Grey and Edward S. Miller, one-time head of Squad 47, the domestic counterintelligence unit in the FBI's New York Field Office, were convicted of having "conspired to injure and oppress the citizens of the United States." The context of their crimes was COINTELPRO, a secret, nationwide campaign conducted by the Bureau from 1956-71 for purposes of destroying "politically objectionable" organizations and individuals through any and every means available to it. In 1975, an investigating committee headed by Senator Frank Church found that COINTELPRO had, from start to finish, been no more than "a sophisticated vigilante operation...fraught with illegality."

Neither Grey nor Miller ever spent a day in jail as a result of their convictions. In April 1981, President Ronald Reagan interrupted their appeals to announce that he was bestowing pardons on both men. The reason stated was that their misdeeds had occurred during an especially turbulent period in U.S. history, one in which the country had very nearly come apart at the seams. The moment had arrived in which it was necessary to "put all this behind us," Reagan said, and "to forgive those who engaged in excesses" during the political conflicts of the 1960s and 1970s.

At the time, it was pointed out that if this were to be Reagan's policy, it would be at least as appropriate for him to pardon the numerous victims of COINTELPRO as to forgive its perpetrators. We noted how the Church Committee had discovered that a COINTELPRO technique had been use of the courts to "neutralize" targeted activists by obtaining false convictions against them, that the FBI had typically involved local police in such endeavors, and that of all the groups targeted in this manner the Black Panther Party (BPP) had by a substantial margin been hit hardest and most extensively.

No action was taken by the Reagan administration in this connection, however, and a number of former Panthers continued to serve time, many of them in cases showing clear signs of manipulation by the FBI's COINTELPRO operatives.

---

quote:

---

Throughout his presidency, Reagan supported the apartheid government in South Africa and even labeled Nelson Mandela's African National Congress a notorious terrorist organization.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caretaker:

Forty-three years ago Brother Martin's words reverberated through my heart and took root, "May our children one day be judged not on the color of their skin, but on the content of their character.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrianGrass1234:

Remember, democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on whats for dinner and that politics is rewarding your friends and punishing your enemys, so be careful how much power you give your government. It can be doing what you want with that power know, but the next group the comes in can use it against you. One day your the wolf with your friends in power, the next you might be the lamb and your enemies are in power.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrianGrass1234:
And individual sovereignty is better than democracy. Freedom will always be better than being a slave. It doesn't matter if I'm a slave to a majorities will, or an individuals.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by freddy05:
Ahhh... "Individual Freedom"... Depends who you are in America.

If you have a name that happens to look like the name of a terrorist, you may have problems getting on an airplane or have your phone calls monitored.

If you are born into poverty then your chances of economic prosperity are much lower from the get go.

For a majority of Americans, freedom means a 40+ hour a week job with sometimes as little as 0 hours of vacation time. 3 weeks is considered really good. In many countries "less free Europe", 1 month is the norm. Who is more "Free".

Rich (generally white) people who are accused of crimes hire high priced lawyers to twist the law and find loopholes and get off the hook or get a reduced sentence. Poor (generally minority) people who are accused of crimes get lower quality lawyers and get longer sentances and higher conviction rates.

If you are black and in a "white" area, people get scared, call the police, get suspicious, etc... If you are white in a "black" area, your friends assume you are crazy or doing mission work or something like that.

People born in to "White America" are more free than "Black America", immigrants, arabs, etc...

White people are disproportionately better off in all areas of the world. White people have controled governments, systems of education, technology, etc for hundreds of years so its no surprise.

Its no surprise that white people in America talk about racism as a thing of the past, poverty as a consequence of laziness, and want to protect the status quo.

What´s really sad is when this attitude comes from the mouths of those that profess Christ!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by freddy05:


Its no surprise that white people in America talk about racism as a thing of the past, poverty as a consequence of laziness, and want to protect the status quo.

What´s really sad is when this attitude comes from the mouths of those that profess Christ!

---

Yes. Very sad indeed.

 

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Posted by David (Member # 1) on :
 
Mark your ballot for the men and women who will take a stand against immorality. Same-sex marriage and abortion--require Christians to take a stand. These two issues are directly opposed to biblical truth and are an affront to all that is holy. The other issues will be with us and have been with us since before Christ. But the two big ones have just popped up and will, if not stopped, destroy society.

No you can not be a Christian and support same-sex marriage and abortion, period.

If you think you are a Christian an support these things, you better think again. You better get to know Jesus before it is to late. Read his word the bible and get to know Him as on judgement if you don't know Him you will hear depart from me I never knew you.
 

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Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by David:
Mark your ballot for the men and women who will take a stand against immorality. Same-sex marriage and abortion--require Christians to take a stand. These two issues are directly opposed to biblical truth and are an affront to all that is holy. The other issues will be with us and have been with us since before Christ. But the two big ones have just popped up and will, if not stopped, destroy society.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caretaker:

The butchering of babies is an abomination and NO ONE WHO CLAIMS TO FOLLOW CHRIST SHOULD SUPPORT THIS, OR THOSE WHO DO!!!!!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caretaker:

Homosexuals already have equal rights under the law, as individuals.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caretaker:

Rose:
Then why are people trying so hard to limit their rights and discriminate against them?

Drew:
People are not discriminating against homosexual individual rights. As individuals they each one have equal rights under the Law. Just DO NOT CHNGE THE LAW TO LEGALIZE/LEGITIMIZE UNNATURAL UNIONS.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caretaker:

The African-American is free. The African-American can obtain an education, especially with extra programs and funding available specificly for African-Americans. It takes hard work and dedication, and there are a multitude of success stories.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caretaker:

There were more new black business owners under Reagan then in any previous administrations. The opportunities are there, but one must have a willingness to work, a desire to succeed, and not sit around and play the "victim" of the "man".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caretaker:

You present the party line of those who victimize the African-American and indoctrinate in their liberal pablum, and who do the greatest disservice to their people.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caretaker:

You spout the indoctrination of victimization, which such leeches as the Rev. Jessie Jackson, the Rev. Al Sharpton, and other African-American racist activists, and liberal democrats use to retain power and prestige among those who believe and buy into their false rhetoric.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caretaker:

It might be beneficial for you to do some independent research and study, and try to break free of the blantant indoctrination of the liberal left.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
I'm a newly registered Christian Democrat, and I'm going to mark my ballot for change.

---

...I'd point out that a good number of persons visiting this forum from Europe may well assume you're a Christian Democratic Socialist..and..."Golly! you mean they have that in the U.S. now??!!??


Christian Democrats?? A Christian Democratic party??
 

---

Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by EL3LN3TN:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
I'm a newly registered Christian Democrat, and I'm going to mark my ballot for change.

---

...I'd point out that a good number of persons visiting this forum from Europe may well assume you're a Christian Democratic Socialist..and..."Golly! you mean they have that in the U.S. now??!!??


Christian Democrats?? A Christian Democratic party??

---

Ah ha ha ha !


EL3LN3TN, I see that you are in Ohio. Are you paying any attention to the race for the Senate seat?
 

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Posted by Thunderz7 (Member # 31) on :
 
John 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
 

---

Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
John 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by shadowmaker:

Most Democrats are liberals. They want God taken off our money, God out of our schools, God out of the court rooms, stem cell (which they ll use partial aborted babies to do this), believe a man and woman dont have to be married but should be treated as married couples, gays have the right to marry, life doesnt begin at conception, and that if you cant or wont work the govt should take care of you. And we wonder why this world is in such a mess.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by shadowmaker:

I know several people who are too sorry to better themselves who get back $4k to $5k a yr on their tax returns. BUT bc my wife and myself make decent money, we re lucky to get back a $1k and I pay my share of taxes, last yr alone I paid in over $10k, just me not including my wife. We dont make decent money bc of the color of our skin, we make it bc we bust our butts. My wife was working 2 jobs when we met to just make ends meet, instead of taking the easy way out and signing up for welfare. And even though I make good money, I still work odd jobs to make money.

Dont give me that **** about not being able to get a job bc of the color of your skin. VA pays employers to hire minorities. So, who is being discrimnated against?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by shadowmaker:

Just like raising the minimum wage will do nothing for those of us making more. Stores will raise prices to cover the wage increase which makes the person making $10 a hr being able to buy less.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by shadowmaker:

You refer to people being disabled and cant work. Thats a different story but HOW many of those on it really CANT work? They are on welfare and disablity but driving new cars, designer clothes, etc. ???

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by shadowmaker:

As far as New orleans, give me a break. There were many many videos of those people down there stealing Esclades, shopping carts of expensive clothes and purses, etc etc etc. They were shooting at the rescue teams for no reason. All that stopped when the National Guard arrived and started shooting back. Very few were stealing food and other things to just survive.

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quote:

---

NAGIN: I don't know. I don't think so.

But we called for martial law when we realized that the looting was getting out of control. And we redirected all of our police officers back to patrolling the streets. They were dead-tired from saving people, but they worked all night because we thought this thing was going to blow wide open last night. And so we redirected all of our resources, and we hold it under check.

I'm not sure if we can do that another night with the current resources.

And I am telling you right now: They're showing all these reports of people looting and doing all that weird stuff, and they are doing that, but people are desperate and they're trying to find food and water, the majority of them.

Now you got some knuckleheads out there, and they are taking advantage of this lawless -- this situation where, you know, we can't really control it, and they're doing some awful, awful things. But that's a small majority of the people. Most people are looking to try and survive.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by shadowmaker:

For the record I am a conservative and I think all liberals should pack up their belongings and move to France or Canada.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by shadowmaker:

I hope no one gets mad at me, I usually dont talk politics. I love all ya ll.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NLP:
Sorry, I haven’t replied sooner, I’m trying to play catch up, but let me respond to your response. I’ll only address things one at a time so it doesn’t get construed into something else. I’m going to try this again, JOE IS LAZY (not disabled) or anything else you keep trying to throw in there. Your completely missing the point so I’m going to try this another way. (These are real people in my life)

I have a brother in law named ‘John’, who worked hard most his life. He’s been a diabetic since the age of six. It has finally taken its toll on his body. He also has developed epileptic, narcolepsy, failing eyesight, and a host of other health issues. He can no longer work, so he lives off social security/disability. Which he has paid into for many years. He receives a whopping $550 a month to live off of. I am his payee so I know this. Now do you think $550 a month is enough to live off of? He also has a 15 year old son (my nephew). He cannot make ends meet without addition help. So guess who gives that help? Not the government….but his family, myself and others. His family picks up the slack instead of griping and complaining about the government and pointing him another direction of government aid. I take my nephew shopping for school clothes, and other things they need that he could never afford on his own, etc. (This is the ‘Steve’) who I said I DO NOT mind help supporting because I in FACT DO help support him (these are not just words, but my feet in action).

I also have a niece named ‘Cindy’ (This is the ‘Joe’). She got financial aid and went to a technical school and got her certificate in medical transcriptions, etc. She does not work, she’s NOT disabled, she loves to get her nails done and sleep till 9 or 10 am. She is truly lazy, “I don’t like this boss, so I quit, I already worked 5 days, I’m not going to work a 6th, so I quit” I could go on, on, about her shenanigans/excuses (the devil has supplied her with a never ending pit of them). In the end she gets government aid (food stamps, medical) for being…..lazy. She has a boyfriend who WILL remain her boyfriend because she can’t get the same benefits if she marries him. So the government is ‘rewarding’ for, for her lack of moral righteousness, etc. Are you getting this??
In 2004 she worked for 3 months (she hated her job so she quit and lived off her boyfriend and the government); anyway she made $3k that year and received a check from the government for $1k when she filed her taxes (this is what shadowmaker is talking about). Receiving government money (which comes from us) for money she did even ATTEMPT being an able body person to earn. For every 10 people who get aid only 2 truly deserve it, the rest are just what is called ‘milking the system’. Why do you think ‘welfare reform’ is such an issue, because the government is finally opening its eyes to people like my niece.

Now you can post till the cows come home about how ‘oppressed’ you think people like my niece are, but the reality of it is they are NOT oppressed and you have to stop placing them under the false banner of ‘oppression’. Do what shadowmaker and I have done, Go out and work your tail off, have the government come in a take half of your earning and give it to my niece in the meantime while YOU YOUSELF are truly helping the ‘oppressed’ ones like my brother in law, then we will see where you stand.

Nobody here is even remotely suggesting that people like my brother in law do not deserve help, but it’s people like my niece that do not deserve help that are the ones primarily getting it. So if they stop coddling people like my niece, people like my brother in law could receive more than $550 a month to live off of.

Reread the scripture I post earlier about what the LORD says about people like my niece.
If you want to support a form of government that want to aid everyone equally (which DOES include the lazy) then that’s your prerogative, but God doesn’t feel this way and neither do I. If you want to call God a classist and racist then go right ahead. It won’t be the first time man has mocked Him (you can read that in my introduction when I first posted on this site).

In an end note: while you continue to bash people like myself and others who ARE the ones paying and supporting the TRULY oppressed ALONG w/the ‘false oppressed’. Why don’t you tell us what you are doing to help them, where has you paycheck gone? Into your own pocket or into the pocket of others? Are you really helping the oppressed or just ‘talking’ about it?

---

AMEN!!

The person I was referring to worked at Biscuitville for less than half a yr and made roughly $3500 and got back over $5k. How? She has 3 kids. By the time she got thru claiming this and claiming that, bammm she got a big check. Her mothers boyfriend was paying for her to go back to college to better herself. He was allowing her to live rent free in his trailer. He gave her a car to drive and they watched the kids while she went to school. Guess what, she dropped out......oh and shes white.

Married couples are being punished on their taxes for BEING MARRIED!!! We paid in almost $14k in taxes and we get back $1100 and you wonder why I m upset at the person above? So I m punished for busting my tail??? Nobody has given me anything. I ve worked for it. The republicans dont see this as fair and did away with the marriage penalty.

Your people? Now whose being racist.
 

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Posted by Thunderz7 (Member # 31) on :
 
John 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.


to this IBG replied

quote:

---

I know I am free in God's eyes, but black people and others are not free from this oppressive system and policies of government. There needs to be a change in government.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
It doesn’t matter what they think, because they give us freedom, freedom to determine our own destinies. And I am a Democrat and I will always be one, and that’s that. You can hate it or love it. Your ignorant post IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I AM GLAD TO BE A DEMOCRAT.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NLP:
In an end note: while you continue to bash people like myself and others who ARE the ones paying and supporting the TRULY oppressed ALONG w/the ‘false oppressed’. Why don’t you tell us what you are doing to help them, where has you paycheck gone? Into your own pocket or into the pocket of others? Are you really helping the oppressed or just ‘talking’ about it?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by shadowmaker:


Your people? Now whose being racist.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by David:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
It doesn’t matter what they think, because they give us freedom, freedom to determine our own destinies. And I am a Democrat and I will always be one, and that’s that. You can hate it or love it. Your ignorant post IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I AM GLAD TO BE A DEMOCRAT.

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Itty-Bitty Girl - Rose or who every you are right now. Any more posts like the above and you will be ask to leave this message board.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by David:
If you don't believe in what the bible teaches then you are not a Christian. You can not support same sex marriage, abortion (murder) and say you are a Christian. Period. This is not about what you think, it is about what the bible says. If you don't believe in the word of God that is up to you and no one is trying to make you. The question was can you be a Christian and a Democrat. If you want to be a Democrat that is fine, but trying to make it sound like it is OK to murder and be gay is freedom now that is sick!!!

Why would you want to be a Christian if you don't believe what the bible teaches?

You need to decide if you are a follower of Jesus Christ and if you are then you need to believe in what He teaches, not just what you want to believe. Things that benefit you. That is called creating a God for yourself. Idolatry

No one says anyone has to be a Christian, but if you are be one and stand up for what is right, if not don't try to label you self one. No one is trying to make people be Christians.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by David:
If you believe in Jesus act like it, IF NOT then don't claim to. At lease atheist don't claim to be Christian.

I am so shocked by people that play the Christian game and when it comes to living like the bible says, they do as they please. Either do it or don't!!! People need to quit faking it and either get saved or be what they are.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Revelation 3:16 (KJV)

This is not a game, we will either spend eternity in hell or heaven and on our last day we will wish we would have paid more attention to what our Lord Jesus Christ say and less to what we want.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by David:
Take a stand, freedom is not being able to do anything you want and get away with it. Freedom is knowing Jesus Christ the one who sets us free.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by shadowmaker:

No hate in my post, its facts but when facts are stated, racism is blamed.

---

Facts, what facts? Are your referring to the "fact" about NEW ORLEANS? I told you that I blame the racist media for your statement that lacked compassion. And I even gave you proof that the "fact" was untrue.

And that is the only "fact" that I blamed racism on, NOTHING ELSE.

And yes, I do believe that there was hatred in your post.
 

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Posted by NLP (Member # 5870) on :
 
Can you imagine how it would be if the wrong religion got in charge?

Yes I can and that religion is Atheist. They are fighting tooth and nail to limit religion to “your closet” and the Democrats are behind them all the way as I have shown you before by giving you the undeniable proof of the votes they cast just 37 days ago.

I am posting it again just in case you missed it.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll480.xml


Please try to refrain from coming back to me w/the indiscretions of Foley who is NOT the Republican party any more than Clinton’s indiscretions are the Democratic party, nor Ted Haggard the Christian ‘religion’.
Answer directly what you think about a vote being cast like this that:

218 Republicans said YES and only 6 said NO

Vs.

166 Democrats said NO and only 26 said YES.

If the majority was Democrat this bill WOULD NOT be on its way to the Senate right now, the Democrats would have killed it.


This is not my opinion, but fact. It appears the Democrats (or least they vote that way) that are not interested in keeping your FREEDOM of religion safeguarded, but surely they want to keep your freedom to commit murder safeguarded!
 

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Posted by David (Member # 1) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
I do believe what the bible teaches. I am not saying that “it is OK to murder and be gay”, because that is not what I believe. I would not get an abortion, I would not marry another woman, or do anything like that, but I support other people’s choices to make their own decision that do not believe as I do.

I can’t approve of government telling someone what to do with his or her bodies, I can’t. I can’t approve of the government telling someone not to marry someone based on gender, I can’t. All that limits the freedom of a person.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NLP:
Can you imagine how it would be if the wrong religion got in charge?

Yes I can and that religion is Atheist. They are fighting tooth and nail to limit religion to “your closet” and the Democrats are behind them all the way as I have shown you before by giving you the undeniable proof of the votes they cast just 37 days ago.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NLP:

Please try to refrain from coming back to me w/the indiscretions of Foley who is NOT the Republican party any more than Clinton’s indiscretions are the Democratic party, nor Ted Haggard the Christian ‘religion’.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NLP:

Answer directly what you think about a vote being cast like this that:

218 Republicans said YES and only 6 said NO

Vs.

166 Democrats said NO and only 26 said YES.


If the majority was Democrat this bill WOULD NOT be on its way to the Senate right now, the Democrats would have killed it.


This is not my opinion, but fact. It appears the Democrats (or least they vote that way) that are not interested in keeping your FREEDOM of religion safeguarded, but surely they want to keep your freedom to commit murder safeguarded!

---

What is “Public Expression of Religion Act”? What is the point of even casting a vote like that?

That is our right is guaranteed to us in the constitution of the United States of America. It is the first amendment in the Bill Of Rights and our right is not in jeopardy at all. It seems like people just want to believe that our natural born rights are in jeopardy when they are not.


Amendment I
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Source Cited: http://www.billofrights.org/
 

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Posted by NLP (Member # 5870) on :
 
How can anyone deny the hypocrisy of the Republican Party? Who is against Mark Foley’s homosexuality? Where is the outrage of the people?
Because UNLIKE Clinton, Mark Foley IMMEDIATELY resigned. He is also being investigated on criminal charges as we speak so what more outrage can we have? In the meantime Clinton had to subpoenaed and then lied to everyone by getting on national TV and saying ‘I did not have relations’ while still sitting in the White House on top of it.


That is why there is something called “separation of church and state”, to protect us.


Where did you get this saying from???? I can tell one thing NO WHERE in neither the Constitution nor the Declaration of Independence will you find the words “separation of church and state” but if you do read them and you will find mention of the ‘CREATOR’.


“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”


Sorry I must have missed the word FROM in there.

What is “Public Expression of Religion Act”? What is the point of even casting a vote like that?

I’m sorry, but I cannot even take these kind of questions seriously. How can you ask questions like this? I am truly stumped!
 

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Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by NLP:
How can anyone deny the hypocrisy of the Republican Party? Who is against Mark Foley’s homosexuality? Where is the outrage of the people?
Because UNLIKE Clinton, Mark Foley IMMEDIATELY resigned. He is also being investigated on criminal charges as we speak so what more outrage can we have? In the meantime Clinton had to subpoenaed and then lied to everyone by getting on national TV and saying ‘I did not have relations’ while still sitting in the White House on top of it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NLP:
I’m sorry, but I cannot even take these kind of questions seriously. How can you ask questions like this? I am truly stumped!

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quote:

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Originally posted by NLP:
That is why there is something called “separation of church and state”, to protect us.


Where did you get this saying from???? I can tell one thing NO WHERE in neither the Constitution nor the Declaration of Independence will you find the words “separation of church and state” but if you do read them and you will find mention of the ‘CREATOR’.

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Originally posted by NLP:
This proves that you are apparently NOT paying attention to what is going on around you or maybe you just don’t care.

Boy scouts are a non-profit, private organization, which was sued by an atheist that insisted their children join w/out having to swear an oath to God and they are continually getting sued by these types of people. So if you don’t find that a direct attack against freedom of religion or right to express it therein: then this conversation is a dead in the water! (FYI: This is what the PETA law is trying to protect)

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quote:

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Originally posted by NLP:
Why does it seem you find it hard to believe there is a battle going on against the Christians (even though God says IN HIS WORD that there is and will continue to be) but you so easily believe there is discrimination against race.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NLP:
IF there is no discrimination against MY FAITH then there is no discrimination against YOUR RACE because after all like YOU said; Race is also protected by law from discrimination and those laws are not in jeopardy now are they and they aren’t going anywhere either.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NLP:
That is why there is something called “separation of church and state”, to protect us.


Where did you get this saying from???? I can tell one thing NO WHERE in neither the Constitution nor the Declaration of Independence will you find the words “separation of church and state” but if you do read them and you will find mention of the ‘CREATOR’.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NLP:
Can you imagine how it would be if the wrong religion got in charge?

Yes I can and that religion is Atheist. They are fighting tooth and nail to limit religion to “your closet” and the Democrats are behind them all the way.....

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...just an fyi - but atheism is not a religion, at least not in the "establishment of" sense.

...it's a Theological system of thought, a credo, or philosophy, but not established as a "religion" and courts have ruled as such

 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by NLP:
I've grown very weary of this discussion.

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Darn! I was hoping you could give some historical reference or evidence where the words "Biblical natural law" (mentioned earlier in this thread) appear in any founding documents!

 

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Posted by shadowmaker (Member # 3696) on :
 
Regardless of your personal decision on which party to vote for, if you vote or dont vote for a candidate who is voiceing support for gays, abortion, removing God from anything, you are supporting it. I dont care if they are republican, democratic, independent, or the Elmer Fudd party (no offense elmer)....IF they are supporting sin, you shouldnt vote for them, PERIOD.

Sugar coat it, look the other way, pretend your vote doesnt matter, whatever, if you vote for sin, you will be held accountable. IF you dont vote against it you will be held accountable.

If you want some good info on how God feels about this, read Romans Chapter 1.

I havent voiced which party to vote for, I ve voiced which kind of candidate NOT to vote for. So go ahead and vote for the gay supporter, abortion supporter,remove God from everything supporter and when you get your minimum wage increase, I hope the $1 a hr extra that you sold out Gods word for is worth it to you.
 

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Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 
Well isn’t it immoral to oppress people and look the other way from them? Republican policies oppress people and despise the proletarian, which is why I would never ever vote Republican. I would rather vote for the proletarians and speak for the oppressed. I am trying to take a stand for what is right, taking a stand against the racism, classism and fascism of this present government. I feel that we need a change in government.

I am against gay marriage and abortion, but I don’t show that by “voting against it”, I show that by “not living that lifestyle”, because God does not approve of gay marriage or abortion, I won’t do it because it is against my beliefs, that is my God’s Law. There is a place where in the bible where it tells us as Christians “not to sin”, but I can’t see anywhere in the bible where it tells us as Christians to “vote against sin”, I am NOT for passing man's laws against such things depriving people of their rights.

Like I said: I would not get an abortion, I would not marry another woman, or do anything like that, but I support other people’s choices to make their own decision that do not believe as I do. I will NOT try to get laws passed that limit others from their freedom.

I cannot let my religious beliefs interfere with government, because it is at the expense of a person’s freedom. I have the freedom to sin or not to sin; it is my natural born right to choose. But I feel that I have no right to interfere with someone else’s rights or their lifestyle choices.

Just like I would NOT try to get a "no-fornication" law passed, because it limits the freedom of a person.

Just like I would NOT try to get a "no-adultery" law passed, because it limits the freedom of a person.

Roman Catholics claim to be Christian, they are for man’s laws against abortion and gay marriage too, but does that mean they are Christians? I believe that Roman Catholicism is NOT Christianity. Could you imagine what would happen if Roman Catholicism religion was in charge? Could you imagine there being a law telling us to worship “images” of Mary and Jesus?

It is my responsibility as a Christian to preach the gospel to a person, not limit their freedom. That can lead to the persecution of the Christian faith. Can you imagine how it would be if the wrong religion got in charge? Isn’t that what got Apostle Paul persecuted and even jailed? The government would probably be telling us who and who not to pray to. It would be a disaster.

If religion interferes and intrudes on government, the wrong religion might probably take charge and it would be a disaster. That is why there is something called “separation of church and state”, to protect us our religious freedom.

I do not feel guilty at all for believing as I do, I believe that God is on my side in this, and these black hands of mine are clean.
 

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Posted by shadowmaker (Member # 3696) on :
 
You re hung up on this thing about being oppressed. Well, thats bull. The govt is really holding you back. You can get an education, get a job, and work as hard as anybody else. And it has nothing to do with the color of your skin. It could have alot to do with your attitude.

Being gay is an abomination to God. The law they are voting on doesnt say they cant be gay, it says they cant receive the benefits of a married couple. God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. If you dont vote against it, you are supporting it. I dont care how you try to justify. Youre claiming to be a Christian but you re going to support a law that allows gay couple to marry. AND you see nothing wrong with this?

They are voting on partial birth abortion. This is where they delivery the baby all the way out except for the head, then stick a vacuum in the back of the babies head and **** out its brains. So its deliveried dead but thats not murder. They are doing it for stem cell research, so they say. But you can do that with the cord. You see no reason to vote against this??
 

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Posted by shadowmaker (Member # 3696) on :
 
The wrong religion is going to take place, thats all in Gods plan. But that doesnt mean I have to vote for it.
 

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Posted by freddy05 (Member # 5854) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by NLP:
Mark Foley IMMEDIATELY resigned. He is also being investigated on criminal charges as we speak so what more outrage can we have?

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quote:

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Originally posted by freddy05:
Oh David... Do you vote Republican? Because there are plently of things "against the Bible" that they do! But for some odd reason, you seem to ignore those things and focus on abortion and gays. I think your politics are intruding a bit on your religion.

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No I don't just vote Republican, I am not Republican or Democrat. I vote for the person that stands the most for what the Bible says. Be it Republican or Democrat. Just happens that the Republicans are not promoting same sex marrage and abortion as must as the Democrats. Don't seem that Republicans are trying to wipe God's name off everything this country use to stand for like IN GOD WE TRUST.

I am not religious but a follower of Jesus Christ. If one is a Christian they will put Jesus Christ first and not themselves. And yes I know Republicans do things that that are not right. So do Pastors and people that claim to be Christians. But that don't change the bible or what Jesus Christ told us to do. We are to keep our eyes on Jesus and not the world. He IS the ONLY one that was perfect and rose from the dead to live again. So if you believe that then you will follow Jesus if not you will follow yourself and stay dead.

I am sure we all do things we don't mean to do, but we are not all leaders. Leaders should be held a LOT more responsible.
 

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Posted by David (Member # 1) on :
 
God don't see color and loves us all the same. Because we are all the same. Also I sure don't feel sorry for you if your black because I think black people are just the same as everyone else. We are all the same in God's eyes. I know one thing for a fact. I know a lot of black people and they don't seem to feel sorry for themself. Any one can be oppressed, white people, black people, red people, etc.... it is all what you do with your life. God will bless who ever He wants to. I know a lot of black people that have a lot more then I do, but I don't think it is because they are black but because they have a good attitude and have worked hard.

The thing is not what color you are but whom you serve. Regardless if you are black, white, red, etc..... we ALL will stand before God on judgement day and answer for ONLY what we have done. I am sure He is not going to ask you what color you are. This life is short and we need to stay focused on Jesus. God made us who we are to serve Him and that is all this life is about. Everyone will find this out the day they die if they believe in God or not.
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
Amen David and Shadow!
 

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Posted by David (Member # 1) on :
 
The Real Thanks of the Worker

And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord . . .

Everything that God has created is like an orchestra praising Him. “All Thy works shall praise Thee.” In the ear of God everything He created makes exquisite music, and man joined in the paean of praise until he fell, then there came in the frantic discord of sin. The realisation of Redemption brings man by way of the minor note of repentance back into tune with praise again. The angels are only too glad to hear that note, because it blends man into harmony again (see Luke 15:10).

Praising God is the ultimate end and aim of all we go through. “Whoso offereth praise glorifieth Me.” What does it matter whether you are well or ill! whether you have money or none! It is all a matter of indifference, but one thing is not a matter of indifference, and that is that we are pleasing to the ears of God.

Paul had got back again by way of repentance into tune with God (cf. 1 Timothy 1:13), and now he has his base as a worker in thanksgiving to Christ Jesus; his whole life has been brought into perfect relation to God.

Approved unto God. C1946 by Oswald Chambers
 

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Posted by shadowmaker (Member # 3696) on :
 
You cant talk politics to some people bc they get caught up on the idea that they vote strictly Democrat or Republican. Satan himself could run for president as a Democrat and people would vote for him.

I too vote for the person and not the party. Just seems Republicans, while they may not be perfect or good Christians, dont try to get God removed from everything, dont support abortions or gay marriages.

The democrats promise a better economy but you know what, I m not selling out my beliefs or Gods beliefs for a paycheck. God will provide for me, so I dont and wont compromise so I can make a little more money. My treasures await for me in heaven, the devil can have the ones of this world.

I dont think the gay marriage got approved in any of the 8 states that voted on it, PRAISE GOD.


 

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Posted by artm (Member # 6243) on :
 
Hi,Interesting post here. May I just say that the answer to the woes of America does not lay in the republican party,nor the Democratic party.

Only Jesus can fix this nation. The World looks to a political party,But the Church looks to Jesus Christ.

The Homosexual agenda,And the death of millians of unborn children cannot be solved by passing laws.

Because laws do not change a persons heart. And mans problem is heart trouble.

Change the heart and you will end abortion. Change the heart and Homosexuality will come to a screeching halt.

The SongWriter said, " What can wash away my sin,Nothing but the Blood of Jesus."

Don't look to any Political Party, Look to Christ and Him Crucified.

There are many unfair laws and practises in America, It will be that way untill Jesus comes.

And we will have many disagreements, But we must always love one another.

Vote Bible,Not Pocketbook. Vote Bible not Political Party.

How can we as Christians support those who are Pro-Choice.? How can we as Christians in good conscience support those who are Pro-gay marriage.

I am afraid we are stuck with voting for the lesser of the two evils.

But I would rather not vote at all than to vote for someone who will further the slaughter of millions of unborn babies.

So I will look for the one who is as close to my Biblical convections as possible. There are some out there,They may be few,But there are some.

And one more thing. When god looks at people, wreather they be Black,White,Brown,Yellow or whatever, All he sees is the Blood of Jesus.

Someone said,and correctly so, The Blood makes everyone color blind.

God bless you all in Jesus Name. Pastor Mann
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
Nothing will ever be changed in a voting booth!

Democrat, Republican, Independent or any other political party can not change an individual or a nation, only Yahweh can heal our nation or any other nation.

George Bush is evil as Hitler ever thought about being, but the alternative was no better.

I do not know exactly at what point in time this nation went so wrong, but outside of a Revival of the people that claim the Name of Yeshua/Jesus as Redeemer, our nation has no hope.
 

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Posted by HE LIVES (Member # 4931) on :
 
I can't argue with anything that you said.

This was a country that was founded on the Lord, and now it wants nothing to do with Him. What happens when something looses it's foundation?

It falls.

Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 
Some holiday food for thought:

If the above were true, then website/forums like this would not be allowed to exist.
 

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Posted by HE LIVES (Member # 4931) on :
 
I disagree, The government will allow the people to talk about the Lord in your own little section, but don't bring Him out in the open where others can see.

They like to make people think they have freedom of religion so they can continue to run on the God ticket and get your votes.

Christ is fine as long as you keep Him in your group, or behind the walls of a house of worship, but don't bring Him outside because you might offend the one guy in a hundred that doesn't believe.

I can't stand to watch a man run on the "God ticket" Waving the cross as he runs for office and then after he wins acts like he's afraid of the name of the Christ.

How long will it take Christians to see that they're being used for their votes.

Lord, please help this country.
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 
Well, not really - this website/forum is accessable to anyone with a computer, and as for (literally?) "taking Christ out in the open and showing him around etc etc..." that's kinda hard to work with, other than to say that religious faiths have been divided up into their "own little sections" since the country's founding.

Are you suggesting Christ should be "secularized" outside of religious organizations somehow?
 

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Posted by HE LIVES (Member # 4931) on :
 

quote:

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Are you suggesting Christ should be "secularized" outside of religious organizations somehow?

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quote:

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Originally posted by HE LIVES:
...Americans should repent and turn back to the one that made this country what it was.

...This country was founded on The Lord our God...

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Interesting area - w/ these claims you're apparently referring to the pre-Constitutional (pre-1740 approx), Anglican (Church of England) & Spanish/Portuguese/French (Catholic) - funded & supported, first settlements?? The Virginia company - fur trades- Hudson Bay company, Puritan Congregationalist & early explorers, etc...??

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Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 
Ok...but concepts such as Republican liberalism, Constitutional Government, globalism, and civil rights have made all that obsolete - more than 200 years ago, to boot.

Would you rather return to the wilderness of the Middle Ages, or join the rest of civilized humanity, in the continued march ahead? The choice is yours. Be yourself, by all means.
 

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Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
Hi, becauseHElives. You said:

Nothing will ever be changed in a voting booth!

Eden here:

Actually, each candidate/person is different, so the decisions one candidate/person makes or would make could be considerably different from what an other candidate/person elected to say, president, might make.

So when you say:

Nothing will ever be changed in a voting booth!

Eden here:

That’s not true. Lots of things will be changed by the voting booth.

Be blessed.
Eden
 

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Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
Hi, HE LIVES. You said:

I can't stand to watch a man run on the "God ticket" Waving the cross as he runs for office and then after he wins acts like he's afraid of the name of the Christ.

Eden here:

Actually I love it when someone runs on the “God ticket”; some may not mention Him that much after they’ve gotten into office, but others have stayed consistent. Better that “God ticket” than that “Allah ticket” and better that “God ticket” than that “Darwin ticket” ANY DAY FOR ME.

Be blessed.
Eden
 

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Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
Hey, becauseHElives, why the title "Christian Democrat"?

Did "Christian Republican" not work for you for some reason? Nor, "Christian Independent"? Nor, "Christian Green Party"?

Why, "Christian Democrat"?

Be blessed,
Eden
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
The only influence a True child of Yahweh has in this world is the influence that the power of prayer gives him/her as they put their complete trust in Yahweh that all things are allowed by Him and work for our good that are called according to His purpose.

Eden, the title "Christian Democrat"? is Itty-Bitty Girl’s phrase.

This world is not my Kingdom; I am a citizen of another Kingdom, a Kingdom whose builder and maker is Yahweh.

2Ti 2:4
No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of [this] life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.


I see from scriptures I am to prayer for the leaders…..(no place in scripture do I see that I am to vote)

1 Timothy
Chapter 2
1
First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone,
2
for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity.
3
This is good and pleasing to God our savior,
4
who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.
5
For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human,
6
who gave himself as ransom for all. This was the testimony at the proper time.
7
For this I was appointed preacher and apostle (I am speaking the truth, I am not lying), teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
8
It is my wish, then, that in every place the men should pray, lifting up holy hands, without anger or argument.
9
Similarly, (too,) women should adorn themselves with proper conduct, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hairstyles and gold ornaments, or pearls, or expensive clothes,
10
but rather, as befits women who profess reverence for God, with good deeds.
11
A woman must receive instruction silently and under complete control.
12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet.
13
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14
Further, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed.
15
But she will be saved through motherhood, provided women persevere in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
 

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Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
Yes, becauseHElives, you said:

Eden, the title "Christian Democrat"? is Itty-Bitty Girl’s phrase.

Eden here:

Yes, my apology, I did not realize I was on page 4 of the Topic.

Eden (over and out)
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 
No, really the term "Christian Democrat" is commonly used in a number of European countries, and means Christian Democratic (Socialist) - often where there is a State Church situation (Sweden w/ Lutheranism comes to mind) & a Democratic Socialist party - you then have persons who refer to themselves as "Christian Democrats".
 

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Posted by artm (Member # 6243) on :
 
Hi, Just thought I would drop a few lines here.

As I read all the posts on this subject, I can almost feel the hurt,And the anger coming across the page.

I can understand this because I too have at times felt this hurt and anger, But I always pray and ask God to help me keep it from getting down into my heart.

We need to understand a few things here.

First,No party can claim to be the Christian party.

While there may be a " True Christian " in the Democratic party,Certaintly they cannot claim to be a Christian party, The proof is in the pudding.

And the same can be said about the republican party.

Remember this Worlds system is corrupt.And that goes for the political system in America.

While this Nation may have been founded on Biblical principles, Our Nation as a whole no longer opperates on those principles.

This Worlds system is corrupt.

THAT IS WHY God tells the Christian to pray for our leaders. Are you praying for them ?

There are many things wrong with the way this Country opperates, But remember Christ has not set up His Government yet.

As a Christian I cannot vote for anyone,Democrat or republican who is pro-Abortion,or pro-gay marriage. And so on.

As I vote according to Gods Word I do my part in a small way to help keep this Country from being destroyed completly.

I never vote for a person based on the color of skin. or simply because of their political party.

AND WHILE THIS GOVERNMENT IS NOT PERFECT IN ANY SINCE OF THE WORD,wHAT WOULD YOU REPLACE IT WITH.?

Remember Jesus has not returned yet.

And please be careful of that hurt, It can lead to a very serious problem within your own heart.

Be careful of that anger,It can lead to bitternes and hate.

Black,White,Red or Yellow, The Human race needs Jesus Christ.

And when you see all the injustice in this Country, Remember, As a SongWriter of old once said, " Were not home yet "

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't do all we can to right the wrongs, But remember the greatest weapon we have is Prayer, And Faith in Jesus Christ.

God Bless you all, And I love you. Pastor Mann
 

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