This is topic Apostacy in forum Polls Only at Christian Message Boards.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=27;t=000125

---

Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 
Considering that we should be sensitive to other members of the Board and that our own personal agenda shouldn't overtake the whole Board, do you think that perhaps we are being over-saturated with too much 'Apostacy?'
 

---

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
I can hardly think of something in the name of sensitivity to members that could be any more insensitive than to try and rally a consensus to say that those who post on the apostacy feel that the Lord God calls them to post and talk about is not worthy of posting.

Way to Go HisGrace!
 

---

Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 
Personally I believe it is way overdone for such a small board. We have been made well aware that Apostacy is about and have all of the necessary accessible tools to study it for ourselves.

However, in a democratic way, you have been given the option to disagree, and this is a golden opportunity to tell me I am wrong if that is your opinion.
 

---

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
I believe we need to hear this. My mom gets alot of her Preacing from T.V. She does not have a computer. If I do not stay informed, how will I protect her.

The problem here is not too much information, but people getting their feelings hurt when something is said about their fav Preacher. People take things way to personally.

I am trying so hard to be patient with people because I know it is hard to hear your fav Preacher is not perfect. But good grief, even Paul said he was not perfect. And I have yet to meet anyone as good as Paul, in my entire life.

Okay I am having a very bad day in my real life so I am leaving this post, but I wish that people would stop being mad at us. We did not go on T.V. and say all those things.
betty
 

---

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
Like I said:

Way to go HisGrace.

I may think that games are overdone on this board, but this board has always been for discusing what people felt led to discuss. If you dont like what is being discussed, no one bends your arm and makes you participate in any discussions and you are welcomed to start as many discussions as your heart desires.

Maybe things have changed around here I just was not aware.

I still think that it is anything but sensitive to another to try and say that what he feels led to post or talk about it unworthy of posting or talking about.
 

---

Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
The problem here is not too much information, but people getting their feelings hurt when something is said about their fav Preacher. People take things way to personally.

---

Sister Betty, you are an Absolute GEM and I just Love you So Much!

I knew how much you admired Billy Graham and I was so afraid when I posted those things about him that it was going to hurt you. I can't tell you how Inspirational your response has been to me! You handled that with Such Grace and Maturity that I was awe struck! I pray that others will see your example and learn from it!

I'm very sorry to hear that you're having a bad day Ian and I will talk to our Father about that now!
 

---

Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :
 
I for one believe we are in the last days spoken of in the apostolic scriptures.

I also believe that it is helpful to know what is taking place right now concerning the falling away and apostacy that is most certainly occuring before our eyes.

We need information and discussions like this because many do come here from all walks of life and from different denominational backgrounds and many are being decieved and need to read and understand what is happening.Of course no one is under any obligation to read the apostacy posts or even to answer them, so it in no way hurts to have these discussions.

I have never took it as being someones own personal agenda to post on the apostacy that is taking place today but some of us could possibly be called as Yahwehs Watchmen to sound the alarm on such issues.

So please do not quit posting on the apostacy on my account. I for one believe it is a sound and valid warning for the church body today. Shalom and Blessings.

TG, Sure hope you have a better day tomorrow and may the rest of your day be blessed. Cindy
 

---

Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
One needs to be informed as to the false prophets leading so many astray, especially the glitz and glitter beggin-for-bucks apostles of the WOF.


2 Tim 3:

1: This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2: For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3: Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4: Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5: Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6: For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7: Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8: Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9: But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
 

---

Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
One must have a great deal of discernment before declaring that others are wrong and calling them false prophets. So much false information has been put out on the internet and that is why having discernment is so very important
 

---

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
I think as Christians we are all equiped to reconize false Preachers. They are those that Preach different from God's Word. If it is contrary to the Bible it is wrong.
betty
 

---

Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
Relying on articles that are written and put on the internet, particularly the ones who tear down are not always the best ones to accept as gospel truth. One should always remember that and be extremely careful before believing every word they read in the articles and accept it as being totally true. God will show the truth and it's not in those articles. He always does.
 

---

Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :
 
Yes, God will indeed show the truth and when He does, I'm afraid a whole lot of people are going to be unpleasantly surprised and my heart Breaks for them!
 

---

Posted by redkermit (Member # 4059) on :
 
Generally speaking, I think it's a good thing to have the information out there. Do I think it has gotten carried away at times? Maybe, but there was a pastor's wife from my childhood that had a saying that has stuck with me my whole life: "It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it" (of course she was referring to an umbrella, but still... ).

To me, the most damaging information is that which is hard proof, such as the interviews some have witnessed themselves. I just think we do need to be careful when pulling information from all different kinds of web sites, as it is very easy to have your own web site and put whatever you want on it.

But, the bottom line is, we are each individually responsible for searching these things out for ourselves. For example, with the most recent information about Billy Graham, I went to his web site and sent them an email questioning them. I have yet to get a response, but ultimately, it is up to each individual to research and hold these teachers and their teachings up to the only infallible source, which is the Word of God.
 

---

Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
One consideration in regards to the "mega-churches", and media ministries, is can they minister Biblically to the individual?

Can an "assembly-line" Christianity, with a buffet-style serve-yourself presentation, administer church discipline, disciple on an individual basis, home-visit those who become bed-ridden or even notice their absence?

With Madison Avenue flair and theatrical presentation, has cotton-candy-sweet-fluff, replaced the Gospel for the sake of financial expediency and mass appeal?
 

---

Posted by redkermit (Member # 4059) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caretaker:
home-visit those who become bed-ridden or even notice their absence?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
The Worldly church says keep what you have of this world's do some majick and get some more; then borrow the things God has for your temporary walk in the world.

The trouble with the latter is when the end of this world and this life comes - there will not be anything stored for the next.

---

quote:

---

Rev. 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

---

What does this mean for all these people who are being taught Visualization/Confession (which is sorcery), but they don't know it?

I once had a christian councelor who encouraged me to do visualization. When I read what that really is, it broke my heart! I had to immediately repent and ask forgiveness once I realized it.
 

---

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
I think that if it is not Biblical it is of the other side period; there really are two world views...the Bible and the other - all the others amount to one - that which is not of God.

There really are two Kingdoms God's and the other.

There really are two wills - God's and the other.

There really are to ways of walking - in faith and spirit or in sin and flesh.

There really are two ways - Man's way, which is the world's way, which is Satan's way - OR God's way which is Christ.

There really are two paths - one is straight and narrow and leads to life - this is God's path, and there is a broad path that leads to destruction this is Satan's path - it is also man's path. Man must get on God's path to get to life.

I could be wrong, but I dont think you have to be unwittingly taught majick, I think that all things evil are in the world and of the world and those of the world will know them; I think that you have to be taught what is not of the world. I think you have to die that you can be re-born so that you are not of the world. I think that once this happens you have to learn to live in this body that is still of the world with out listening to the mind of the world that goes with it;

I dont think that we understand that the mind of the flesh is not our mind - we are children of God with the mind of Christ, but minding the things of the flesh and of the world, we are listening to the mind of the flesh and the mind of the world and that is not our mind so guess whose mind it is?

Why did Jesus say to Peter Get behind me Satan? I believe that it was because Peter spoke from the mind of his flesh and that voice is the voice of Satan.

Again, we see the absoulte imperative that we must renew our minds with the word, that we may "prove" "demonstrate" that which is the PERFECT will of God.

All we see in these false teaching is the demonstration of the will of Satan coming forth out of unrenewed minds. The evil is already there unless it is purged.

Do you get what I am saying?
 

---

Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :
 
Well, yes I do get what you're saying, but I'm still having a problem with one issue.

What about a New Believer who has heard, believed, and accepted the Gospel, Repented of their Sin and asked Jesus to forgive them and be Lord of their life; but has not read the Bible yet? (Or maybe has read it, but hasn't studied it?) Someone in this position needs to rely on Elders until they are able to search the scriptures for themselves. These New Believers are Easy Marks for the False Teachers and could easily be taught that these practices (which are really Occultic) are Biblical. The New Believer would not know how to search the scriptures to see if what's being said is indeed true. Herein lies my Concern.
 

---

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
I think I misread your post. I agree with you. I thought you were asking about those who teach the world's wisdom and call it God's. I thought you were asking about them knowing what it is they teach.

I am sorry. I absolutely agree with your concerns. I think that this recent thing with Osteen is a perfect example. He made a wonderful confession and apology for his not having made clear that Jesus is the ONLY way.

But that came in response to an outrage. This is because most people get that message from Christianity....at least until recently.

But there is no outrage over these teachings because many have already been conditioned to them by the world.... Anthony Robbins taught this stuff in the 70's and 80's; Napolean Hill and Peale taught this stuff in a generation before him. Most of what is being taught today in these mega churches and by most of these big name prosperity preachers has been taught in the secular realm by entrpreneurs from Andrew Carnigie to Charles Givens and every one in between.

Underlying it all is humanism...man can create his own destiny, be the captain of his ship....this is the inborn desire of all men. This is the original sin....I can do it MY way; own my own, I dont need a God I am one.

All Chrisitiandom has done is repackaged it and called it faith....but a little analyzation shows it amounts to having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof.

Seeking the world's goods through what you believe is God is still seeking the world's goods. We are supposed to be seeking the Kingdom of God. Which is a people living in covenant.

It is the age old religion of Babylon that worships the creation and not the creator.

Prosperity has become a god; healing has become a god; power of mind has become a god; the world's view of happiness is become a god; these things are what men seek and when man learns to manipulate them, man himself has become the god of his gods.

The problem is the thing that is missing IS GOD ALmighty. And when this life passes none of those gods or the man who made them gods will be there in Eternity.... But God Almighty will be.
 

---

Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :
 
Preach It Sista!!!! AMEN!

(I thought I had gone into the twilight zone for a moment LOL, but then again, I don't think my first question was really clear enough sorry)
 

---

Posted by whitesands777 (Member # 3424) on :
 
I've said this before and I'll say it again...satan is very good at being subtle...

And that's what apostacy is...It is subtle. You see a church with a steeple, a cross, a preacher, prayers, a nice clean haircut, smiling, nice suit, a Bible, and sermons about God that put a slight twist on the real meaning of His Word looks like "church" to people but what is being said does nothing more but relieve itchy ears by casting a shadow over the seriousness of our sin and the need for repentance and to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
 

---

Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by whitesands777:
I've said this before and I'll say it again...satan is very good at being subtle...

And that's what apostacy is...It is subtle. You see a church with a steeple, a cross, a preacher, prayers, a nice clean haircut, smiling, nice suit, a Bible, and sermons about God that put a slight twist on the real meaning of His Word looks like "church" to people but what is being said does nothing more but relieve itchy ears by casting a shadow over the seriousness of our sin and the need for repentance and to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

---

That's absolutely right!!!
 

---

Posted by Adv.Christian (Member # 3453) on :
 
Apostasy: renunciation of faith: the renunciation of a religious or political belief or allegiance.
Please forgive my ignorance; but is this not, however worded, exactly what a discussion of differing views is?
While I agree there are often some rather heated discussions of beliefs, there is now, and will be until Christ’s return, different interpretations of scripture and contentions over rather or not the teachings are correct. Steel sharpens steel and while the discussions can be heated they serve to increase the strength of all those involved by focusing study on the point being discussed.
Speaking on a personal note I will admit that there have been times when I have found the discussions to show me where I had been interpreting certain aspects of scripture incorrectly and until we are willing to see our own ability to be wrong it is impossible to grow beyond our current place in knowledge of God’s Word.
As always my love to all and May God Bless all.
 

---

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
Amen Adv Christian, this is so very true!

quote:

---

Speaking on a personal note I will admit that there have been times when I have found the discussions to show me where I had been interpreting certain aspects of scripture incorrectly and until we are willing to see our own ability to be wrong it is impossible to grow beyond our current place in knowledge of God’s Word.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Amen Adv Christian, this is so very true!

quote:

---

Speaking on a personal note I will admit that there have been times when I have found the discussions to show me where I had been interpreting certain aspects of scripture incorrectly and until we are willing to see our own ability to be wrong it is impossible to grow beyond our current place in knowledge of God’s Word.

---

Sometimes I think we can view those who have public ministries as being above error we think that because they have one particular area correct, every thing they teach is correct

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HisGrace:
And then again, just because public ministries have one particular area as being what we think is incorrect, we may be tempted to believe that everything they teach is incorrect.

---

quote:

---

July 8, 2005Dear Matt,Thank you for your email. It is good to hear from you.We appreciate your interest and concern about the interview with Mr. Graham which was conducted by Rev. Robert Schuller. Mr. Graham has faithfully and clearly preached the Gospel for over 50 years, and since the interview he has reaffirmed his belief in Christ as the only way of salvation: "In all our Crusades we place a prominent banner with Jesus' words, 'I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.' We put that verse there because people live in a confused world, with so many competing religious voices calling men and women to follow them. But Christ is distinctive and exclusive about the way to God. There can be no true Christianity apart from Him. While some of the ethics and idealism of other religions may run parallel to Christian teachings, the fact remains, as stated by Jesus Christ, 'No man cometh unto the Father but by me' (John 14:6, KJV)."Over the years I have met people with many religious and philosophical views. Many of them have had deep commitment to their beliefs. But I have become even more convinced of the uniqueness and the truth of Christ and His Gospel. And I want to continue preaching it as long as possible."We trust that you will pray that Mr. Graham will always correctly interpret God's Word and be sensitive to the Spirit's leading in every situation.May God bless you and meet your every need.Sincerely,Nancy Wright-LeekAdministrative Services CorrespondentBilly Graham Evangelistic Association

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by redkermit:
Mr. Graham has faithfully and clearly preached the Gospel for over 50 years, and since the interview he has reaffirmed his belief in Christ as the only way of salvation: "In all our Crusades we place a prominent banner with Jesus' words, 'I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.' There can be no true Christianity apart from Him. While some of the ethics and idealism of other religions may run parallel to Christian teachings, the fact remains, as stated by Jesus Christ, 'No man cometh unto the Father but by me' (John 14:6, KJV

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Well, I do not think that it matters what we think is correct; I think it matters what the scripture says is correct.

Then secondly, the scripture I believe shows that when one who publically preaches or teaches teaches something that is different than what is written, they are to be personally confronted and given the opportunity to correct their error or stop preaching it.

If they do not stop teaching it then we as a body are to reject them as teachers.

---

quote:

---

You have some doctrinal beliefs that I don't agree with, Linda, and I feel as if you interpret the scriptures different from what is written, and you probably believe the same about my views. Does that mean we should reject each other as teachers?

---

quote:

---

You have said before that Joyce Meyer has wrongly said that Jesus went to hell for the three days after his physical body died. I have learnt mountains of wisdom from her and I am not going to get hung up on this one view that may or may not be correct.

---

quote:

---

I'll defy anyone to give me 100% assurance on what happened to him during that three days. It is a matter of semantics and there's nothing wrong with that.

---

quote:

---

I'm not going to get wrapped up on be becoming obsessed about proving this issue. It gets my focus off the message of Jesus.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
If they do not stop teaching it then we as a body are to reject them as teachers.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HisGrace:
I remember one poster said she had discernment about a certain scripture, and I'm sure she was right, until someone else came along with added insight and somehow the original opinion took on another new faction to it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HisGrace:
The point I am trying to make Linda is that just because we don't think their teachings line up with our interpretation of the scriptures, doesn't mean that we have to totally push them aside and call them false prophets.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by SoftTouch:

quote:

---

Originally posted by HisGrace:
I remember one poster said she had discernment about a certain scripture, and I'm sure she was right, until someone else came along with added insight and somehow the original opinion took on another new faction to it.

---

Yes it is true that one can gain added insight to certain scripture that was not clear before. However, that's not to say that the discernment that (which ever poster you're referring to) had was faulty in light of how that particular scripture had been being presented by certain teachers.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HisGrace:

quote:

---

Originally posted by SoftTouch:

quote:

---

Originally posted by HisGrace:
I remember one poster said she had discernment about a certain scripture, and I'm sure she was right, until someone else came along with added insight and somehow the original opinion took on another new faction to it.

---

Yes it is true that one can gain added insight to certain scripture that was not clear before. However, that's not to say that the discernment that (which ever poster you're referring to) had was faulty in light of how that particular scripture had been being presented by certain teachers.

---

She had studied the scriptures for herself. I am agreeing that the discernment was not faulty, so therefore we have to be careful who we call false prophets. The discernment issue just needed further education.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by SoftTouch:
I guess I'm not understanding what's being said here. It isn't clear as to what scripture or what the interpretation was, etc. so it's really difficult to understand the conclusion.

---

quote:

---

Our version of the scriptures isn't always written in stone. The scriptures never change, but our perception can be different because of where we are in our own individual lives.

Take the Book of Job for example. If a single mom is going through a nasty divorce, seeing the terrible trials Job went through and how God brought him through the other end victoriously, will give her comfort and hope.

On the other hand, if the Lord is trying to do a work in me and I am having trouble with pride and resentment, reading the Book of Job will give me wisdom when I see how God dealt with Job.

The Bible is for everyone. It's deep secrets meet us at our own personal needs.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
You can say the Bible says dont judge and I would have to agree with you; but you cannot build a doctrine out of that with out your doctrine also allowing for harmony of that scripture with all the scriptures that say to judge. This is because there are some things we are commanded to judge and some things that are not given to us to judge and never will be given to us to judge. Your doctrine that says we cannot judge the hearts of men does not negate my doctrine that says we must judge sin in the body of Christ. Nor does mine negate yours both are true. The fact that the Bible does say we cannot judge the hearts of men, does not negate the one that says we can and do hear the hearts of men at any given time, for out of the heart the mouth does speak and out of the evil treasure of the heart it does bring forth evil speaking.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by David:
If this is not your calling, then you need to examine if you are a born-again believer in Jesus Christ, as it is the calling of every believer to up hold the truth.

---

I agree.
 

---

Posted by Adv.Christian (Member # 3453) on :
 
Love and greetings to all. I do not know how many here have ever had the opportunity to work on a farm but please bear with me while I use this environment as an analogy. When you have a large field that you have to plow the rows into to prepare the soil to plant you need to keep those rows as straight as at all possible. Now the way to plow a field and keep those rows straight is you learn not to look at the ground as you plow but instead you look far down the field and chose a target to head for and plow the field keeping the tractor headed for the target at all times. If while plowing if you take your eyes off the target ahead of you and look away from it, even if you look at the previously plowed rows, you will inevitably skew the rows and lose the straight line you worked so hard to establish.
Why do I post this? I personally believe this applies to the very base of the subject being discussed in that only by keeping our eyes, mind and spirit focused on Jesus can we hope to maintain our straight walk in the Christian faith. If a teacher, any teacher teaches a belief that causes a person’s focus to come off Christ then it is a Christian’s duty to stand firm and call that teaching to bear. No this dose not mean that all teachings by that teacher is wrong however using the above analogy if you plow one of the rows in the field skewed you have one of two choices, either you work to straighten the rows back up or you lose the percentage of the usable field that the skewed row cost you.
Just as with Peter when he exited the boat to walk to Jesus on the water; if we allow our eyes to come off Jesus we will no longer be headed straight towards Him. If a teacher is teaching a false teaching; rather intentionally or not, (not a different possible interpretation of scripture, but actual false teaching which directly disagree with scripture) then Christians not only should avoid listening to the teacher but also vocally stand against those teachings. As always my love to all and May God Bless.
 

---

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
I was watching Rev. Hagee today. He said that the Churches involved in Apostacy will be used by the anit-Christ. This is scary to me. That a Church that started out for Christ can be used by satan.
betty
 

---

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
That is the most difficult thing for me to grasp in this issue. Do you think that they started out for Christ or Did they start out for what they thought was Christ, but is not Christ? I cant say that I fully get that or understand that completely. Maybe some of both. David the other day talked about Saul being annointed but choosing to go bad.
 

---

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
I have a hard time grasping it myself. Simply because, I am somewhere in the middle of once saved always saved. Is it possible to get saved and lose your salvation? I honestly don't know. I do know it is possible to go in the ministry when you are not called by God. My son's best friend's mom made him preach as a child even though he tried to tell her over and over that he was not called by God. Is it possible for a Christian preacher to be saved themselves and lead people astray? I honestly don't know.
betty
 

---

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
Well I am 100% a believer in the eternal security of the born again child of God, but I see that there are many that have belief that does not set down roots that can "fall away"; those roots I see as the sealing and indwelling of the Holy Spirit that only occurs in re-generation. Many have what I call head and not heart belief. But I wonder of those is it really Christ that the belief was in in the first place or what they or someone else made Christ to be in their minds.
 

---

Posted by Miguel (Member # 47) on :
 
What we need to remember is that the body of believer is not a building but a group of people professing that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Savior. In this body the Lord tells us that there is wheat and tares it is no surprise that this gathering have the attributes of Apostasy! We read in Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. We need to see this thing with spiritual eyes for the times are increasing with sin as God is permitting them. This verse reflects our brother in the past (OT) but it is more at this present time, Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. This is because God is giving man what he really wants (sin)(lust)(greed)ect.. The Lord tells us that judgment (will) begging with the house of God and if it beggings with us what hope the rest shall have? Many of you can relate with this verse, Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Is it not that the life of many are according to this verse? Or should we protect that which He have said it will destroy first. Can we comprehend when God tells us that His judgement will begging with His people! And why? You and I know the answer to this according to what He has teach us in His word.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

I pray to God that I my self am ready with His wonderful grace for we know not who really are the wheats and who are the tares.

May the Lord have mercy with our souls!
 

---

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
MAC I dont think that this is true that we know not who we are the wheat or the tares.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

I think that we better know who we are MAC; if we do not we are his sheep there is no way that we can know him and hear his voice.

2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
 

---

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
God has given us His Word in the Bible so that we can recognize the sheep from the goats. If we do not seek to tell the difference we will be led astray.

In my paper this morning, they bragged about an Episcopal that has "Queer Bingo" for those who are gay and bi-sexual. If you go by what the writer of this article said, you would think how wonderful. A church reaching out to gays and bi-sexuals and making them feel at home. The problem is not only do make them feel at home but they make them "comfortable" staying in there sins. Let's someone think I am prejudice, it is not only this sin that some preachers can make you comfortable with. There are preachers who know that a board member, who pays big tithes, sells cars and makes it a habit to cheat and lies to buyers. So the preacher doesn't preach on this for fear of losing that tithe money. Everyone should feel welcome in a Church but no one should be led to believe that they should be comfortable with choosing a lifestyle that is contrary to the Bible. The Church should be a hospital for the soul. You would not go to a doctor and he tell you that your leg is filled with gangrene, so I am going to give you a lot of pain medication so you can learn to live with this leg. No, he would say we got to remove this leg, or you will die. To often preacher see a person living in sin, and seek to make them feel good about it. This is wrong, period!
betty
 

---

Posted by peh (Member # 4446) on :
 
This was stated, "God has given us His Word in the Bible so that we can recognize the sheep from the goats. If we do not seek to tell the difference we will be led astray."

Question: Is that the central purpose of His giving His Word to us in writing? Or is it His purpose at all? This statement and others like it by other posters sound as if it is but on what is the statement based?

Is the purpose of our search of Scriptures to see if "it be so" in order that we can tell a false teacher from a truth teacher? Is it the Holy Spirit's task to lead us into all truth or ours?

Or is the purpose of our search to come to know the Reality for ourselves?

There is a story I've heard several times, and believe it to be true, that bank tellers are not given "false" money to handle in order to learn the difference between the real and the counterfeit but instead are trained by repeated handling of legitimate currency to discern the real, and therefore the counterfeit won't fool them since it won't "feel" right.

Nowdays, the pen and light are used which do an even better job than the human eye and hand. This is interesting since it involves "light" and the "light" of understanding is what we receive as we seek to know God.

Still going with the above analogy, the bank teller who detects the counterfeit is not the one who arrests, tries, judges, and sentences the one "passing" the counterfeit currency.

That is the job of those to whom the authority to do so belongs.
 

---

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
Well I believe that we are given his written word because through it God has revealed himself to us through HIS Son.

So I guess HIS purpose in giving it would be the revelation of himself to us.

The purpose of it having been given in writing is so that when the enemy tempts us as he did Eve in the garden with a 1/2 truth, we can do what Jesus did and say "it is written." the fact that it is written helps to keep the enemy from being able to beguille us.

Additionally the writing of them makes them to become a legal document; the enemy Satan is not going to stand before God on judgement day and say I did not know... or you dis not say this you said that... it is written and it will stand over time.

Goats usually refer to the nations that are not sheep nations. God has given the opportunity for those who are not part of those who are called to covenant to find blessing through blessing His Covenant People; we see the sheep- Goat nations being judged and those who have blessed the brothers of Christ being given an opportunity in the Millennial reign to learn HIS statutes and come to eternal life.

The written word does enable us to recognize wolves and bad shepherds and not be led astray.

quote:

---

Still going with the above analogy, the bank teller who detects the counterfeit is not the one who arrests, tries, judges, and sentences the one "passing" the counterfeit currency.

---

quote:

---

Romans 16: 17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Colossians 2:8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2 Peter 2:1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2 Timothy 4: 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Ephesians 5: 6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Ezekiel 3: 17Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
MAC I dont think that this is true that we know not who we are the wheat or the tares.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

I think that we better know who we are MAC; if we do not we are his sheep there is no way that we can know him and hear his voice.

2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

---

Remember what Jesus said of those that are born, Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Not that He have not show us in His word the fruits of a child of God but that not everyone that confesses Jesus Christ is born from above and that is where my point was we really don’t know. We can’t see the heart! But yet He gives us assurance in our spirit when we are born from above. There is a desire to do His will and sin grieves us when we sin, this grieve is different from the one the world have. One brings life the other destruction!
 

---

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
WEll, I would not see that scripture as saying that Mac, but let me share with you a conversation I was having with God one day....

I was thinking on the this scripture:

Roman's 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


And I was thinking about this and about God, and about those who will say to him Lord Lord only to hear "I never Knew You." and I was telling him that if I were one who was chosen and molded by him to be a vessel of destruction, then I would just have to be that which he had molded me to be because I know that HE is God and I know that being GOd everything he does is perfect and there can be nothing better and so, I find that I just have to have faith that what ever it is that I am, I am because of HIS perfect wisdom and knowledge and way and I would have to trust in that even if this is what my lump of clay was molded to be. Even now this is hard for me to write, because none of us wants to be a vessel of Dishonour, but this is where I am. There is no other place for me to be because I know that HE is the only thing... the only one that I can trust, but I know that I know that I know that I can trust HIM.

And you know what he said to me, when I had finshed saying that to him?

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


I thought that was pretty awesome of HIM.

Man caan think himself saved and that will not save him, we are not saved by thinking.

Man can work his own work in the name of Jesus all day long for his whole life; but works even in the name of Jesus does not make us Children of the Living God. We are not saved by working.

Living and belieiving by faith in and of Christ makes us to be children of the Living God. We are saved by believing.


Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Amen?
 

---

Posted by Miguel (Member # 47) on :
 
Maybe this will say it better;

2Ti 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given us in Christ Jesus before the eternal times.
 

---

Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
Personally, I think both sides have taken it too far.

As I said before, if someone is saved by a Joyce Meyers or BIlly Graham teaching them comes searching online for discipleship, the will start to question Christianity as a whole if they came and saw all of these put downs. So, in my opinion more harm has been done then good.

It is important to expose lies, but what is a lie? Only God knows for sure. We all differ so who are we to say that what God shows one person is definitely wrong? We don't know definitely, we only know according to what we believe.

However, I don't feel it's my place to keep criticizing other people's posts so to keep from getting upset, I choose to avoid those posts completely. I don't want that garbage cluttering my head and to me, it's merely garbage. To others, it's valuable. I heard this saying once: If you can't be a part of the solution, don't become a part of the problem...or something like that.

I don't have any favorite evangelists although I will some day be studying Joyce Meyer's more because God specifically told me I would have a ministry like hers. Actually, He said the day will come when she can't minister anymore and I will take her place. That is all the proof I need. I still don't know much about her but the times I have heard her speak I really liked it.

So my take is this. We need to all push this aside, avoid the posts we don't like and learn to love and accept others as they are. I don't feel it's my place to defend Billy Graham or anyone because God will do that. it isn't my place to drag them through the mud either. If people are wrong for running them down, only God can show them. Nothing we say will matter. We just need to take it to God and pray for each other, not verbally attack each other.

I feel it's time we all, both sides of the equation, put this to rest and focus where God would have us. For me, I want my focus to be on God alone and not worrying about Billy or others. It's God's place to deal with them not mine, and He will.
 

---

Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 
Great post Carmela. I have done some soul-searching about how to handle such situations in the future. In the past I have given my opinion to protect certain preachers. However, everyone now knows how I feel about these preachers, so it is no longer necessary for me to provide input into those threads.

The Lord keeps reminding not to be part of an argumentive spirit, so in order to avoid any misunderstanding, it is best that I say nothing.
 

---

Posted by Miguel (Member # 47) on :
 
We are in a time that we most compare every teaching to the Word of GOD. Plus, no one ministries saved or give any person salvation! That is only entirely of God alone.

Heb 4:12 For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

God indicates to us; actually He tells us to prove all things, that man in his nature goes saying many things? Yes that is his nature to corrupt and be a god unto it self. But God have by the Lord Jesus Christ have given us that which teach us about Apostasy.

1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,
1Ti 4:2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, being seared in their own conscience,
1Ti 4:3 forbidding to marry, saying to abstain from foods which God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

Not everyone that read the Word of God is bless by God or directed by God. The devil knows very well the Word of God and we know what is his end, so it is by the grace of God that we are not consume made partaker of the heavenly blessing having been inputted that which the Father have given to the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

---

Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
We can do this without public slander.

Can someone please help me? See, I remember there is a scripture that says something about the disciples or someone going to Jesus and saying they are teaching in your name but not sent by you and He said something about, if the word is being taught, it won't be in vein. I only vaguely remember the scripture and I have been looking for it but I can't seem to find it.

I would really appreciate your help and I thank you in advance.

Love, Carmela
 

---

Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :
 
Amen Miguel
 

---

Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 

quote:

---

We are in a time that we most compare every teaching to the Word of GOD.

---

quote:

---

Plus, no one ministries saved or give any person salvation!

---

You are right in a way. However, God sends them out to reap the harvest. It's our job to disciple them not cause doubt in their minds when someone they trust is being torn apart. I know I can't seem to get my point across which is probably my fault but I think publically putting others down is wrong. However, I also understand that you are all in agreement and are discussing what you believe. I respect that, I just hate to see people led away from God because they are confused by the message that led them to salvation in the first place and then the message they see here.

Either way, I love and respect you all as brothers and sisters so I choose not to let these topics hinder a Godly relationship with you. First love God, then your neighbor. The 2 greatest commandments.
Mark 12:30-31
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
(KJV)
 

---

Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
OH I got it. Wooooo Whhhooooooo Carmy dances around the room, shouting for joy, and gets all of you to join in the dance with her. I have been looking for this on and off for a while now.


Luke 9:49-50
49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not : for he that is not against us is for us.
(KJV)
 

---

Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Carmela:
OH I got it. Wooooo Whhhooooooo Carmy dances around the room, shouting for joy, and gets all of you to join in the dance with her. I have been looking for this on and off for a while now.


Luke 9:49-50
49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not : for he that is not against us is for us.
(KJV)

---

quote:

---

2 Corinthians 11:13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

---

quote:

---

Luke 9:49-50
49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not : for he that is not against us is for us.

---

quote:

---

Where does it say to look for someone preaching God's word and publicly drag them through the mud?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:

quote:

---

Where does it say to look for someone preaching God's word and publicly drag them through the mud?

---

It does not, we do agree on something! I dont think anyone has advocated dragging any through the mud, just discussing issues and comparing what is popularly taught with scripture.

Actually I do agree with a great deal of what you have said, as I believe that it is the Holy Spirit that brings people to repentance and belief in Christ and not men. I believe that the spoken word of the true Gospel of Christ could be spoken from the mouth of a purple eguana (sp?)and it would bring slavation if that person were first drawn by the Father through the Spirit.

None of that however keeps me from believing that we should not practice all the other things that are part of this walk.


I also do agree that it is just fine to disagree on things. And I also agree that this board is an awesome place to learn.


I think however that the only one that has any intrest in our believing that who are born again Children of the Living God, filled with HIS Holy Spirit and possessing the mind of Christ, and the written word cannot hear, know, and clearly understand God's word exactly as God intends it to be understood, is the Devil himself. I cannot buy any part of that.

---

Sorry Homes, but I can get the last paragraph! Does the devil can or can’t understand Gods word.
 

---

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
Speaking the truth about false Preachers and Teachers is not about changing them. Sadly most of them are so filled with pride that only a miracle from God can change them. Speaking the truth is all about protecting the innocent that can be mislead by them. There are those who's only Church is the internet and TV. If people do not reveal the truth, they will believe a person just because he has "Rev" in front of his name.
betty
 

---

Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :
 
Excellent point Betty! Amen!

I worry especially for the New Believer who does not KNOW God's Word yet, or has only just begun reading it (or the person who can not read at all). How are they to be able to Discern if something a TV Preacher is saying is actually the truth? It takes a Long Time to truly Study the Bible and a Lot of Prayer for Discernment. You have to be Familiar with How to search the scriptures. The New Believer will not have acquired these skills. This is why it is So Important that there be "Watchers" who will Warn the Sheep when the Wolf is stalking them.
 

---

Posted by Watcher (Member # 3589) on :
 
Speaking Out Against False Teachers

Many think it is wrong to speak out against false teachers, or to warn Christians not to follow particular teachers because of their teachings. What does the Bible say about this?

"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron...If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed" (1 Timothy 4:1-2,6).

Notice that Paul specifically exhorts that the brethren should be made aware of false teachings. Notice that he says "if you point these things out to the brethren, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus" (emphasis mine). So Paul is telling us that a "good minister of Christ Jesus" points out false teachings.

If that is not enough, how about "but there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovreign Lord who bought them - bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping" (2 Peter 2:1-3). Here Peter warns us of the rise of false teachers within the church. But it is not without reason. Notice that the heresies they preach are "destructive" and that following them will "bring the way of truth into disrepute."

"But none of these verses mention specific teachers," you say? "Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, holding on to the faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith.

Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme" (1 Timothy 1:18-20). "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth..." (2 Timothy 2:15-18).

Here Paul has mentioned false teachers by name, in order that they be warned, and others be warned of their false teachings, and with purpose. The men mentioned here, through their false teachings, have "blaspheme[d]" and "shipwrecked their faith." By their false teachings ("godless chatter"), they and those who follow them "become more and more ungodly." In order that they may become more godly, we must turn them away from these ungodly teachings.

How do we do this? Compare what the preachers teach to what the Bible says. Even Paul was not above having his teachings checked: "Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true" (Acts 17:11). Who could teach the Scriptures more reliably than Paul?

Were the Bereans criticized for comparing his teachings to Scripture? No! On the contrary, they were commended for doing so. So why are those who question the teachings of some of the most popular preachers criticized?

Maybe this verse will help answer that question: "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths" (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

We cannot judge anyone's heart or their motives. We must be very careful in this matter. "Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted" (Galatians 6:1). We must not be hypocritical or judgemental in our correction. We must, however, examine every teaching that comes from every teacher in light of Holy Scripture. Scripture itself exhorts us to do so when it says, "dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

If I have not yet listed enough scripture warning against false teachers, then the following list of verses should help:


Matthew 7:15-23; Matthew 24:10; Mark 22:23; Acts 20:25-31; Romans 16:17-18; Galatians 1:6-9; Colossians 2:8,18-19; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; 1 Timothy 1:3-7; 1 Timothy 1:18-20; 1 Timothy 4:1-8,16; 1 Timothy 5:3-10; 1 Timothy 6:20-21; 2 Timothy 2:14-18; 2 Timothy 3:1-9; 2 Timothy 4:1-5; Titus 1:9-16; 2 Peter 2:1-22; 2 Peter 3:14-18; 1 John 1:18-27; 1 John 4:1-6; 2 John 7-11; Jude 3-19
This is by no means a comprehensive list. Many others warnings exist in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. Hopefully this has shown that, not only is it not wrong to confront and speak out against false teachers, but because of the spiritual devastation they cause, it is our obligation to Christ and the brethren to do so. Let me leave you with the words of the apostle Paul: "'I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears" (Acts 20:29-31).

Thank you for visiting
The Bible Page
http://www.thebiblepage.org/avoid/soaft.shtml


Teachers To Avoid

These teachers, preachers, and ministries all teach blasphemous and destructive heresies. Most have been told and/or warned, but continue to proclaim false teachings and promote others who do the same. Unfortunately, many sincere Christians are led astray by these teachers, and often suffer severe spiritual and emotional damage as a result. Not only should these teachers be avoided, but others, especially those who follow them, should be warned of their false teachings and "destructive heresies" as well.

(Partial listing)

For detailed list click on link:
http://www.myfortress.org/FALSETEACHERS.html

John Avanzini
Rodney Howard Browne
Charles Capps
Morris Cerullo
Kenneth and Gloria Copeland
Paul and Jan Crouch
Creflo Dollar
Jesse Duplantis
John Hagee
Kenneth Hagin
Marilyn Hickey
I. V. Hilliard
Benny Hinn
Bishop T. D. Jakes
Joyce Meyer
Frederick K. C. Price
Prophecy Club
Oral Roberts
Jerry Savelle
Robert Tilton
Trinity Broadcasting Network

Watcher
 

---

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
Sad to say, but you need to add Joel Osteen to that list. He has stopped preaching sin and started preaching self-improvement and self-empowerment. If man could have saved himself, then Jesus would not have died for our sins.
It breaks my heart to see preachers stop preaching the truth to attract bigger crowds.
betty
 

---

Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :
 
WOW! PRAISE GOD!!!!!!!

Watcher, Welcome to the BBS and THANK YOU for Expounding so well on God's Holy Word and it's Command for us to WARN the Brethern! That Was Excellent - I'm printing that one out!!!! Again - PRAISE GOD!!!!!


Amen Betty... Joel Osteen and Rick Warren need to be added to that list as well!
 

---

Posted by peh (Member # 4446) on :
 
HFHS posted:

quote:

---

We are a body and sin in the body is like cancer and if sin is seen by the eyes to be present in the arm and the eyes dont share with the rest of the body pretty soon the whole body will die,

---

There is an underlying message in this part of your post that points out, at least to my mind, why I cannot agree with most of the Apostacy, heresy, "false teaching" posts. I chose your statement, HFHS, because it does so in a clear way, but there have been many other such statements that I could have used as well.

Ok, the body has cancer and the eye is needed to see it, you say. And if the "eyes dont share with the rest of the body pretty soon the whole body will die".

What room does this leave for God? Is the eye to take care of the Body? Or is God? Is it Christ's Body or the "parts of the body" Body? What if the eye doesn't recognize that misshapen patch for what it really is?

This is a recurrent message in many posts which declare that if one sees "apostacy" or "false teaching" it is that one's clear and present duty to Name It, else someone may be deceived who would have been a brother or sister had it not been for the wicked ones so named.

There is a basic problem with such outlooks and it is that there is no room for God to be the One to lead His own children out of any deception they might encounter. Nor for the Holy Spirit to be the One Who leads those in Christ into all truth. It is also a kind of undervaluing of the power of Christ to draw all people to Himself in spite of the worst that the world, the flesh, whether in the church or out, and the devil can throw in their paths.
 

---

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
There is a song that says "If we are the body, why aren't our arms moving?"
The Church is the body that God uses on earth. If God wanted to, He could do away with the body and preach Himself. But God chose to use the body. If the body sees a member preaching a false Gospel, we should speak up. No one thinks there is anything wrong when we speak up and warn people about bad food, air, etc., but too many in the Church want to tell Christians to shut up and let false preachers lead folks right to hell.
betty
 

---

Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
God is in control and He always will be in control.
 

---

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
True!, but God gives men and women free choice. We are not robots. God allows us to choose whether we will stand up for the truth of God's Word or if we will sit silent by while false preachers deceive thousands and thousands of people all for profit. I choose to raise the banner high and proclaim that God's Word is not to be sold as water-down and sugar-coated Gospel.
Much better to have a smaller Church then 100,000 people who are more interested in self than Jesus.
betty
 

---

Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :
 
If we are not to See these things, then why does the Bible warn us about them?

If we are Not to Warn the Brethern, then Why does the Bible tell us to do so?

Something is not right here, and it's not God's Word.
 

---

Posted by peh (Member # 4446) on :
 
The point is still missed. If a human "sees" a "cancer" the seeing still doesn't save the body. Only God is able to do that.

And you're right: It's not the Word, it's the undervaluing of the power of God and the Holy Spirit.
 

---

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
It is difficult for me to understand that you see this in this regard Peh. I see that the Holy SPirit is in each body part and does minister to each individual body part; but that HE also ministers through each individual body part to the other body parts.

None of us recevies anything that is of God until God causes us to be able to receive it.

If God causes Frank to see something and tells Frank to share it, this is the working of the Holy Spirit in Frank and through Frank, when Frank is obedient.

If God should desire someone to hear and receive what Frank has in obedience seen and spoken, then God will put that someone in the place to hear and with the heart to hear.

At this point, I do not see that this is the devaluing of the Spirit the allowing of the Spirit to work how HE wills in whom He wills.

I see that each of us has responsibility to hear and obey as the spirit speaks to us.

If I happen to be one that hears Frank speak and I do not receive his message there may be many reasons for this, but unless Frank's message is contradictory to God's word, then I cannot see how I have to information necessary to claim that it is not God's message or that Frank didnt hear it or wasn't doing exactly what God told him to do when he spoke it.
 

---

Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :
 
Amen Sis and thank you I couldn't figure out how to put it into words. I think you said it quite well!

I hope that will help those who don't understand to see that we are Not denying God's Power in any way, but being Obedient to what the Lord has shown us and told us to do with it.
 

---

Posted by peh (Member # 4446) on :
 
The posts I recently added here were in response to SoftTouch's post in which she wrote:

quote:

---

"If we are not to See these things, then why does the Bible warn us about them?"

---

quote:

---

If we are Not to Warn the Brethern, then Why does the Bible tell us to do so?

---

quote:

---

Something is not right here, and it's not God's Word.

---

quote:

---

I have to information necessary to claim that it is not God's message or that Frank didnt hear it or wasn't doing exactly what God told him to do when he spoke it.

---

quote:

---

too many in the Church want to tell Christians to shut up and let false preachers lead folks right to hell.

---

quote:

---

God allows us to choose whether we will stand up for the truth of God's Word or if we will sit silent by while false preachers deceive thousands and thousands of people all for profit. I choose to raise the banner high ...

---

quote:

---

If this is not your calling, then you need to examine if you are a born-again believer in Jesus Christ, as it is the calling of every believer to up hold the truth.

---

quote:

---

HisGrace, I'd rather not ingest the Poison that's served along with that meat you're talking about.

---

quote:

---

(to SoftTouch) Probably why the devil was fighting you so.

---

quote:

---

It sounds as if you perceived my post as an "attack" on SoftTouch. I don't see that.

---

quote:

---

What part of my post said we are not to see "these things"?

---

quote:

---

What part of my post said we are not to "Warn the Brethern"?

---

quote:

---

There is an underlying message in this part of your post that points out, at least to my mind, why I cannot agree with most of the Apostacy, heresy, "false teaching" posts. I chose your statement, HFHS, because it does so in a clear way, but there have been many other such statements that I could have used as well.

Ok, the body has cancer and the eye is needed to see it, you say. And if the "eyes dont share with the rest of the body pretty soon the whole body will die".

What room does this leave for God? Is the eye to take care of the Body? Or is God? Is it Christ's Body or the "parts of the body" Body? What if the eye doesn't recognize that misshapen patch for what it really is?

This is a recurrent message in many posts which declare that if one sees "apostacy" or "false teaching" it is that one's clear and present duty to Name It, else someone may be deceived who would have been a brother or sister had it not been for the wicked ones so named.

There is a basic problem with such outlooks and it is that there is no room for God to be the One to lead His own children out of any deception they might encounter. Nor for the Holy Spirit to be the One Who leads those in Christ into all truth. It is also a kind of undervaluing of the power of Christ to draw all people to Himself in spite of the worst that the world, the flesh, whether in the church or out, and the devil can throw in their paths.

---

quote:

---

if one sees "apostacy" or "false teaching" it is that one's clear and present duty to Name It,

---

quote:

---

It is also a kind of undervaluing of the power of Christ to draw all people to Himself in spite of the worst that the world, the flesh, whether in the church or out, and the devil can throw in their paths.

---

quote:

---

There is a stream of disagreement in the posts about the "teachers" and "ministers" as to whether they are, as one side proclaims, "false teachers" or as the other maintains, they are either not at all "false teachers" or that while they may occasionally say things that are hard to fit into some posters' reading of Scripture, that doesn't make them "false teachers".

---

quote:

---

But so far as I am concerned, any disagreement I have with such posts is entirely about the overemphasis on the need for "Warners" to protect God's people from being deceived and not seeing the Holy Spirit of God being given the proper respect for His duty and ability to "lead us into all truth". And no, I don't think He needs any human agency at all to do that, though He may choose to use some.

---

quote:

---

Nor do I see high regard for God's role in keeping our souls intact, Who proclaims not one of His own will be lost, nor snatched out of His Hand.

---

quote:

---

And where in any of my posts has this been "claimed"? And if it is "claimed" elsewhere, and that is what you are actually referring to, why do you put it in a post you head with reference to my post? It sounds as if you perceived my post as an "attack" on SoftTouch. I don't see that.

---

quote:

---

I see that the Holy Spirit is in each body part and does minister to each individual body part; but that HE also ministers through each individual body part to the other body parts.

None of us receives anything that is of God until God causes us to be able to receive it.

If God causes Frank to see something and tells Frank to share it, this is the working of the Holy Spirit in Frank and through Frank, when Frank is obedient.

If God should desire someone to hear and receive what Frank has in obedience seen and spoken, then God will put that someone in the place to hear and with the heart to hear.

At this point, I do not see that this is the devaluing of the Spirit the allowing of the Spirit to work how HE wills in whom He wills.

I see that each of us has responsibility to hear and obey as the spirit speaks to us.

If I happen to be one that hears Frank speak and I do not receive his message there may be many reasons for this, but unless Frank's message is contradictory to God's word, then I cannot see how I have to information necessary to claim that it is not God's message or that Frank didn't hear it or wasn't doing exactly what God told him to do when he spoke it.

---

quote:

---

There is a basic problem with such outlooks and it is that there is no room for God to be the One to lead His own children out of any deception they might encounter. Nor for the Holy Spirit to be the One Who leads those in Christ into all truth. It is also a kind of undervaluing of the power of Christ to draw all people to Himself in spite of the worst that the world, the flesh, whether in the church or out, and the devil can throw in their paths.

---

• too many in the Church want to tell Christians to shut up and let false preachers lead folks right to hell.

• God allows us to choose whether we will stand up for the truth of God's Word or if we will sit silent by while false preachers deceive thousands and thousands of people all for profit. I choose to raise the banner high ...

• If this is not your calling, then you need to examine if you are a born-again believer in Jesus Christ, as it is the calling of every believer to up hold the truth.

• I'd rather not ingest the Poison that's served along with that meat you're talking about.

quote:

---

Sounds like Rottwieler words to me!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by peh:
The posts I recently added here were in response to SoftTouch's post in which she wrote:

quote:

---

"If we are not to See these things, then why does the Bible warn us about them?"

---

What part of my post said we are not to see "these things"?

quote:

---

If we are Not to Warn the Brethern, then Why does the Bible tell us to do so?

---

What part of my post said we are not to "Warn the Brethern"?

quote:

---

Something is not right here, and it's not God's Word.

---

What do you suppose is meant by "Something"?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by SoftTouch:
If we are not to See these things, then why does the Bible warn us about them?

If we are Not to Warn the Brethern, then Why does the Bible tell us to do so?

Something is not right here, and it's not God's Word.

---

quote:

---

What do you suppose is meant by "Something"?

---

I think Sister Linda answered that Beautifully (better then I ever could have) in the above post
 

---

Posted by peh (Member # 4446) on :
 
I posted:

quote:

---

What room does this leave for God? Is the eye to take care of the Body? Or is God? Is it Christ's Body or the "parts of the body" Body? What if the eye doesn't recognize that misshapen patch for what it really is?

This is a recurrent message in many posts which declare that if one sees "apostacy" or "false teaching" it is that one's clear and present duty to Name It, else someone may be deceived who would have been a brother or sister had it not been for the wicked ones so named.

---

quote:

---

If we are not to See these things, then why does the Bible warn us about them?

If we are Not to Warn the Brethern, then Why does the Bible tell us to do so?

Something is not right here, and it's not God's Word.

---

quote:

---

...it was not “Addressed” to any individual, but as a comment to all.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gatekeeper:
Well, I'm new around here and saw the word apostacy which caught my attention. Based on the results of the poll here, people like discussing false teachings. I love debating them as well. I believe it is the responsiblity of every Christian to share the Good News and that means that we sometimes have to step on some toes. Alot of false teachers out there do bring people to Christ, but it is in such a muddled way that I think these people are set up to fall away. For instance, if someone comes to a saving faith in Christ in a "name it and claim it" church and they don't get any of the stuff they are claiming, they might start to think God isn't real or that He isn't faithful. If I know someone is caught up in this and I don't say something - I have God to answer to.

---

Hi Gatekeeper! Welcome to the BBS!! I'm glad you came to check it out I'm sure you'll find Plenty of threads here (in various sections) that deal with this issue... it seems to be quite the HOT topic.
 

---